Skip to comments.Gitmo In, Gitmo Out?
Posted on 06/13/2005 7:24:30 AM PDT by Congressman Billybob
I first wrote about the Gitmo prison, four years ago. I laid out facts the MSM have yet to discover. Heres another dose:
1. If Gitmo is closed, the prisoners, AND the complaints, will go elsewhere. (Is Senator Mel Martinez really that clueless?)
2. The Geneva Conventions do NOT apply to anyone captured in plain clothes, behind the lines, hiding among civilians (and also killing civilians). Anyone can read the Geneva Conventions for themselves. Fighters/soldiers must meet four conditions to be covered. Terrorists fail to meet at least three of those.
These are not insurgents. Insurgents are people who disagree with their group. Senators Olympia Snowe and Lincoln Chafee are insurgents. If you dont want to say terrorists, use assassins. Google the word assassin and note its origins in Indian history. Religious fanatics who murder civilians. Sounds like a fit, to me.
What treatment do assassins/terrorists warrant, bare minimum? A drumhead trial, and prompt execution. Google Nathan Hale, or Major John Andre, to see why they got such trials and executions during the America Revolution.
3. Even if the prisoners at Gitmo WERE subject to the Geneva Convention, how long could they be held, and under what conditions?
Does the phrase for the duration mean anything to the press? Or to any Members of Congress, currently mouthing off on this subject? In every war ever fought once most nations outgrew the idea of slaughtering all prisoners the captured fighters were held until the war ended (unless ransomed out, like Chaucer, among others).
During World War II we had camps for prisoners many places, as needed. There was even a German POW camp in Arkansas. Dont believe me? Google it. And NONE of those prisoners were entitled to lawyers, trials, etc.
The Americans who hit the beach at Iwo Jima, or Normandy, or anywhere else, did not go in with arrest warrants, and printed cards to read captured Japanese or Germans their Miranda rights. They went in with rifles and hand grenades. Their task was to kill as many of the enemy as possible, while preserving their own lives.
I repeat the words of General George Patton, that entirely too few Americans apparently have heard, or understood. You do not win a war by dying for your country. You win by making some other b*stard die for his country. While we are quoting famous generals for statements that any fool, even a reporter or a Congressman, should know, add this from William Tecumseh Sherman, War is hell.
4. What about the lack of an exit plan? Anyone who even asks this question is demonstrating a thundering ignorance of history. As World War II makes very clear, our exit strategy then was: Win the war. Take over the country. Destroy the war culture. Turn the nation into a stable, democratic one with a free market economy. That new nation, unlike the defeated one, will then become an ally of the US.
We never announced, in advance, when we would withdraw troops from Germany, nor how many troops we would take out. If we had done that, the Werewolves who were set up by the Nazis to continue fighting after the surrender, would have run to ground. They would have come out to fight after the date we had announced it would become easier.
Let me shorten that, so even the dumbest Congressman or the most biased reporter for the New York Times can understand it. A competent exit plan means: Win. Straighten things out. Come home.
Anyone who thinks he/she can predict exactly when the US military will be able to win and then come home, should practice by predicting next months stock prices. That way, if they are wrong, they will not be betting with the lives of Americans.
5. What is the cost of this war in our blood?
Ive written about this before, so Ill be brief here. Of the eleven major wars the US has fought including our Revolution, this is the LEAST bloody war measured by deaths per month. Dont believe me? Google the statistics. Look it up. Then quit writing and/or believing cr*p about how costly this war is.
While you are at it, look up the statistics on how many young American men die, per thousand, in auto accidents, shootings, and other causes here in the US, as opposed to in Iraq. Use deaths per thousand. Try comparing Baghdad to Detroit, to use an example not entirely at random.
To press and politicians, I say: Research the facts. Tell the truth. Quit being dumb as a brick. Is that so d*mned difficult?
About the Author: John Armor is a First Amendment attorney and author who lives in the Blue Ridge Mountains of North Carolina. John_Armor@aya.yale.edu
Let me know what you think.
Perhaps you could suggest transferring the jihadists to a halfway house in Cambridge, Massachusetts?
Why is he at cross purposes????
They can put every Muslim in the world in Gitmo, and keep them there forever for all I care. We will never be completely safe in this country as long one of them is alive.
Send it to the WAPO editorial board.
That would be REALLY crowded.
I don't see what the big deal is about Gitmo. As a matter of fact, I haven't heard one normal person even mention it outside the press.
The only people "outraged" over Gitmo are the losers who either see some kind of political benefit at the expense of American lives, or the usual America haters. All the negative press is from the liberal negative press!
Who cares about Gitmo? No one I know! Most people have no idea what Gitmo is!!!!
Get a life MSM. No one cares! Hell, I take up an underpants collection myself if it'll save American lives!
And I believe those who give a crap about "Koran accidents" or "Pantie heads" are a very, very, very small minority of lift wing idiots.
People would rather have those loons locked up rather than set the hornets nest of killers free.
Once again, the MSM is misjudging the American people.
Great post, John. I've emailed and called "Republican" Senator Martinez to ask exactly where he would put these detainees if Gitmo is closed...as he suggests. Would they go to prisons around the USA....so the ACLU and the liberal judges could ensure they would get lawyers paid for by the people they'd love to kill....Americans!?
Maybe Martinez, Bill Kristol, Biden et al could suggest a nice comfortable hotel near their homes.
"While you are at it, look up the statistics on how many young American men die, per thousand, in auto accidents, shootings, and other causes here in the US, as opposed to in Iraq. Use deaths per thousand. Try comparing Baghdad to Detroit, to use an example not entirely at random. "
Maybe then the troops should sort out the highways and Detroit first, then Baghdad?
And regarding the shootings... You want to say yhat the enemies of the american people are mainly the american people?
Then the war of terror should start at home...
He's counting on this to get him votes. Like our President, he should stop listening to the left wing press. The left wing wouldn't vote for him anyway!
On Fox News Sunday,Bill Kristol, a supposed conservative, suggested closing Gitmo. Brit Hume, who disagreed, laced into him.
Roger that, John ~ good job my man!
Be Ever Vigilant!
LOL, great line!
My thoughts exactly.
What else might we do? "Rehabilitate" them?
Do you rehabilitate a wolf who's killing your sheep?
Or do we intern them "for the duration"? Duration of what? Their lives?
Anytime this worthless scum is released, they'll go right back to trying to kill us, so lets' make a little pre-emptive strike right here and now, while we know where they are and what they're doing.
Then flush their korans down the commode...
Good grief, you would think he could 'stay with the program' or at least pretend to!
#13....Kristol is no conservative....he just slept in a Holiday Inn once :^
Don't let Kristol fool you....he quacks like a conservative when it suits him...but can turn on a dime.
agree, Martinez should stop listening to liberal media. He got elected cause the President supported him.
And, I pray the President will not listen to liberals and those who are more concerned about public relations than national security. We've already been too accomodating to these people who tried..and, if allowed, will try again..to kill Americans.
Forget the Cambridge halfway house, send them to live with Kristol while he gets them ready to be productive illegal immigrants entering American society to reak havoc and mayhem.
Most deaths are in the liberal "utopias", too. Maybe the lefties ( who have failed everything they've ever done), should clean up their own back yards before trying to tell others what to do elsewhere. Cleaning up their own messes should keep them busy and out of our hair for decades!
Yes, of course. You may share this with others as you choose. Just preserve my copyright and spell my name right. LOL.
..Kristol....quacks like a conservative when it suits him...
AGREE! I can recall when he was all in favor of the Iraq war.....then, when seemed unpopular....he began to turn.
Brit Hume took Kristol down a peg on FNS.
While you are at it look up how many people die each year in the US because of doctor's mistakes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As a military family, we are willing to make the sacrifice to help keep the people of this country safe!!!!!!!!!!!
Maybe he's been busy and not really paying serious attention to the issue, or he's spent too much time reading the liberal press.
Honestly, Americans could care less about Gitmo. The only thing they want changed is the anti-American attacks committed by our own press! They're the only ones making a big deal about this.
Nobody else cares. People (the voters) feel safer will the crazies behind bars.
..We just voted Matinez in...
Guenevere, Florida here too. And, that's what I said when I called his office. He owes the people who campaigned for him (cause the President wanted us to..!)and voted for him an explanation of exactly where he would put these detainees. Guess, Martinez put a lot of thought into his suggestion to close Gitmo (sarcasm..)cause his staffer said they had not been given talking points to answer questions re this issue. Speaks volumes.
Unfortunately, for most of the ones you are talking about, the answer is "Yes". Their agenda is at odds with truth, so guess which wins?
You have written a lot of this before but it deserves to be said again, and again, and again. That said, some will never learn, but the lesser fools might.
Though you grind a fool in a mortar, grinding him like grain with a pestle, you will not remove his folly from him. - Proverbs 27:22
I need to give them a call too.
I guess the issue keeps getting mixed up.
The main problem is not why real criminals/terrorists are behind bars.
If someone is guilty they should be tried and punished according to the law.
Jus because the secrecy and the reluctance of having a decent trials - otherwise how we know that those people are really criminals?
Some of them had been picked up in heat of the war and some of them were innocent, or at least not guilty to the level to get this treatment.
Here is the credibility of the USA is on the line about law and legality.
The superpower status allows to ignore this, but I dont think that the isolation would serve the best interest of the country
toll free number to US Capitol and Sen. Martinez' office...
Re German POW camps - there were five in Louisiana. Some of the POWs picked cotton for the farmers whose males were away fighting the war. They earned .80 a day. Oh the humanity, eh? Where was ACLU? We had nearly half a million POWs scattered across the country - mostly in the south and southeast in rural areas. Comparing the two sets of POWs (WW2 & WOT), the fine hand of the ACLU, the MSM, and the various "humanity groups" makes very plain the direction they are trying to take our country.
"We will never be completely safe "
Ok... You inprison the muslims...
Then the leftist (practically whole of Europe)...
Then the leftist in the US...
Then the Chineese ,the Russians...
Where would you stop ?
Actually it has nothing to do with religion, muslim or otherwise. These are multiple groups of ignorant fanatics (not necessarily uneducated) who are being manipulated by some power crazy mulahs into believing that their lot in life has been caused by the 'unbelieving heathens'. Like some of our youthful (and not so youthful) college folks, they are easily manipulated into believing that America is the problem. If we don't get a hold of our education system - we 'gonna lose this country'!
I have a better suggestion. Each detainee should be put under house arrest under the daily care of an ACLU lawyer.
Hide the cutlery!
You should be familiar with In Re Quirin, the unanimous Supreme Court decision in 1942 which approved the trial, and execution if so ruled, of "illegal combatants" including two who claimed to be American citizens. And the "trials" you refer to for Hale and Andre were, exactly as I said in my column, "drumhead trials."
These are "military tribunals" on the battlefield. They have nothing to do with ordinary US civil or criminal courts.
You are reading the right sources. You are just not comprehending what you are reading.
John / Billybob
No, there is yet another class mentioned in the Conventions, that of saboteur or illegal combatant. Under the Conventions, this group has less protections than the other two and the Conventions make it quite clear that they can be held incommunicado for the duration so long as the holding country deems them a threat.
The Muslims!!!!!!!! They are the worst.
Well my friend, if the Muslim's are not controlled then you won't have to wonder just what they would do to us!!!!!!!!!!
Great article. I am passing it along with the length to your post.
Thanks for posting it.
once Bush showed weakness by saying "all options are being looked at", the weak hands started to fold. Cheney seems to have taken a tough stance, but its up to Bush to refute these lies from the left about Gitmo.
length = link
(How did I miss that?)