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Gitmo In, Gitmo Out?
Special to FreeRepublic ^ | 17 June 2005 | John Armor (Congressman Billybob)

Posted on 06/13/2005 7:24:30 AM PDT by Congressman Billybob

I first wrote about the Gitmo prison, four years ago. I laid out facts the MSM have yet to discover. Here’s another dose:

1. If Gitmo is closed, the prisoners, AND the complaints, will go elsewhere. (Is Senator Mel Martinez really that clueless?)

2. The Geneva Conventions do NOT apply to anyone captured in plain clothes, behind the lines, hiding among civilians (and also killing civilians). Anyone can read the Geneva Conventions for themselves. Fighters/soldiers must meet four conditions to be covered. Terrorists fail to meet at least three of those.

These are not “insurgents.” Insurgents are people who disagree with their group. Senators Olympia Snowe and Lincoln Chafee are insurgents. If you don’t want to say “terrorists,” use “assassins.” Google the word assassin and note its origins in Indian history. “Religious fanatics who murder civilians.” Sounds like a fit, to me.

What treatment do assassins/terrorists warrant, bare minimum? A drumhead trial, and prompt execution. Google Nathan Hale, or Major John Andre, to see why they got such trials and executions during the America Revolution.

3. Even if the prisoners at Gitmo WERE subject to the Geneva Convention, how long could they be held, and under what conditions?

Does the phrase “for the duration” mean anything to the press? Or to any Members of Congress, currently mouthing off on this subject? In every war ever fought – once most nations outgrew the idea of slaughtering all prisoners – the captured fighters were held until the war ended (unless ransomed out, like Chaucer, among others).

During World War II we had camps for prisoners many places, as needed. There was even a German POW camp in Arkansas. Don’t believe me? Google it. And NONE of those prisoners were entitled to lawyers, trials, etc.

The Americans who hit the beach at Iwo Jima, or Normandy, or anywhere else, did not go in with arrest warrants, and printed cards to read captured Japanese or Germans their Miranda rights. They went in with rifles and hand grenades. Their task was to kill as many of the enemy as possible, while preserving their own lives.

I repeat the words of General George Patton, that entirely too few Americans apparently have heard, or understood. “You do not win a war by dying for your country. You win by making some other b*stard die for his country.” While we are quoting famous generals for statements that any fool, even a reporter or a Congressman, should know, add this from William Tecumseh Sherman, “War is hell.”

4. What about the “lack of an exit plan?” Anyone who even asks this question is demonstrating a thundering ignorance of history. As World War II makes very clear, our exit strategy then was: Win the war. Take over the country. Destroy the war culture. Turn the nation into a stable, democratic one with a free market economy. That new nation, unlike the defeated one, will then become an ally of the US.

We never announced, in advance, when we would withdraw troops from Germany, nor how many troops we would take out. If we had done that, the Werewolves who were set up by the Nazis to continue fighting after the surrender, would have run to ground. They would have come out to fight after the date we had announced it would become easier.

Let me shorten that, so even the dumbest Congressman or the most biased reporter for the New York Times can understand it. A competent exit plan means: Win. Straighten things out. Come home.

Anyone who thinks he/she can predict exactly when the US military will be able to win and then come home, should practice by predicting next month’s stock prices. That way, if they are wrong, they will not be betting with the lives of Americans.

5. What is the cost of this war in our blood?

I’ve written about this before, so I’ll be brief here. Of the eleven major wars the US has fought including our Revolution, this is the LEAST bloody war measured by deaths per month. Don’t believe me? Google the statistics. Look it up. Then quit writing and/or believing cr*p about how costly this war is.

While you are at it, look up the statistics on how many young American men die, per thousand, in auto accidents, shootings, and other causes here in the US, as opposed to in Iraq. Use deaths per thousand. Try comparing Baghdad to Detroit, to use an example not entirely at random.

To press and politicians, I say: Research the facts. Tell the truth. Quit being dumb as a brick. Is that so d*mned difficult?

About the Author: John Armor is a First Amendment attorney and author who lives in the Blue Ridge Mountains of North Carolina. John_Armor@aya.yale.edu


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Free Republic; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; US: North Carolina
KEYWORDS: assassins; exitplan; generalpatton; generalsherman; genevaconventions; germany; gitmo; guantanamo; insurgents; iwojima; japan; majorjohnandre; melmartinez; mirandarights; nathanhale; normandy; terrorists; wwii
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I wrote this column today, intending to post it up on Friday. Then I saw a Time magazine reporter (among many others) pattling on about the Geneva Conventions. This public incompetence/dishonesty compelled me to get this column out the door, now.

Let me know what you think.

1 posted on 06/13/2005 7:24:31 AM PDT by Congressman Billybob
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To: Congressman Billybob
Very good John.

Perhaps you could suggest transferring the jihadists to a halfway house in Cambridge, Massachusetts?

2 posted on 06/13/2005 7:28:46 AM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: Congressman Billybob
May I have your permission to start sending this out, to a few friends?
3 posted on 06/13/2005 7:29:08 AM PDT by dts32041 (Robin Hood, stealing from the government and giving back to tax payer. Where is he today?)
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To: Congressman Billybob
Please explain to me why Mel Martinez is pulling this stunt??????

Why is he at cross purposes????

4 posted on 06/13/2005 7:31:11 AM PDT by Guenevere
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To: Congressman Billybob

They can put every Muslim in the world in Gitmo, and keep them there forever for all I care. We will never be completely safe in this country as long one of them is alive.


5 posted on 06/13/2005 7:34:02 AM PDT by Coldwater Creek ('We voted like we prayed")
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To: dts32041

Send it to the WAPO editorial board.


6 posted on 06/13/2005 7:34:11 AM PDT by EQAndyBuzz (Liberal Talking Point - Bush = Hitler ... Republican Talking Point - Let the Liberals Talk)
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To: mariabush

That would be REALLY crowded.


7 posted on 06/13/2005 7:39:11 AM PDT by sd-joe
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To: Congressman Billybob
Gitmo

I don't see what the big deal is about Gitmo. As a matter of fact, I haven't heard one normal person even mention it outside the press.
The only people "outraged" over Gitmo are the losers who either see some kind of political benefit at the expense of American lives, or the usual America haters. All the negative press is from the liberal negative press!
Who cares about Gitmo? No one I know! Most people have no idea what Gitmo is!!!!

Get a life MSM. No one cares! Hell, I take up an underpants collection myself if it'll save American lives!

8 posted on 06/13/2005 7:40:48 AM PDT by concerned about politics (Vote Republican - Vote morally correct!)
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To: mariabush
They can put every Muslim in the world in Gitmo, and keep them there forever for all I care. We will never be completely safe in this country as long one of them is alive.

And I believe those who give a crap about "Koran accidents" or "Pantie heads" are a very, very, very small minority of lift wing idiots.
People would rather have those loons locked up rather than set the hornets nest of killers free.
Once again, the MSM is misjudging the American people.

9 posted on 06/13/2005 7:46:44 AM PDT by concerned about politics (Vote Republican - Vote morally correct!)
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To: Congressman Billybob

Great post, John. I've emailed and called "Republican" Senator Martinez to ask exactly where he would put these detainees if Gitmo is closed...as he suggests. Would they go to prisons around the USA....so the ACLU and the liberal judges could ensure they would get lawyers paid for by the people they'd love to kill....Americans!?
Maybe Martinez, Bill Kristol, Biden et al could suggest a nice comfortable hotel near their homes.


10 posted on 06/13/2005 7:48:43 AM PDT by 4integrity
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To: Congressman Billybob

"While you are at it, look up the statistics on how many young American men die, per thousand, in auto accidents, shootings, and other causes here in the US, as opposed to in Iraq. Use deaths per thousand. Try comparing Baghdad to Detroit, to use an example not entirely at random. "

Maybe then the troops should sort out the highways and Detroit first, then Baghdad?

And regarding the shootings... You want to say yhat the enemies of the american people are mainly the american people?
Then the war of terror should start at home...





11 posted on 06/13/2005 7:50:15 AM PDT by bozot
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To: Guenevere
Please explain to me why Mel Martinez is pulling this stunt??????

He's counting on this to get him votes. Like our President, he should stop listening to the left wing press. The left wing wouldn't vote for him anyway!

12 posted on 06/13/2005 7:50:37 AM PDT by concerned about politics (Vote Republican - Vote morally correct!)
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To: concerned about politics

On Fox News Sunday,Bill Kristol, a supposed conservative, suggested closing Gitmo. Brit Hume, who disagreed, laced into him.


13 posted on 06/13/2005 7:51:24 AM PDT by 4integrity
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To: Congressman Billybob
All of this is true, but since when is the MSM interested in telling the truth? The MSM has an agenda... to "get" President Bush whatever it takes. They will easily stoop to telling half truths, distortions of fact and even manufacturing "news" (e.g. the infamous CBS fake memo) if it serves this agenda. They will readily report without comment the vitriolic hyperbole uttered by Howard Dean, while nitpicking and deconstructing anything from the administration. Thank God for the alternative media where the truth can prevail.
14 posted on 06/13/2005 7:51:32 AM PDT by The Great RJ
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To: Congressman Billybob

Roger that, John ~ good job my man!

Be Ever Vigilant!


15 posted on 06/13/2005 7:52:54 AM PDT by blackie
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To: Congressman Billybob
These are not “insurgents.” Insurgents are people who disagree with their group. Senators Olympia Snowe and Lincoln Chafee are insurgents.

LOL, great line!

16 posted on 06/13/2005 7:53:06 AM PDT by eyespysomething (Peace - that brief moment in history where everyone stands around reloading.)
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To: Congressman Billybob
"What treatment do assassins/terrorists warrant, bare minimum? A drumhead trial, and prompt execution."

My thoughts exactly.
What else might we do? "Rehabilitate" them?

Do you rehabilitate a wolf who's killing your sheep?

Or do we intern them "for the duration"? Duration of what? Their lives?
Anytime this worthless scum is released, they'll go right back to trying to kill us, so lets' make a little pre-emptive strike right here and now, while we know where they are and what they're doing.

Then flush their korans down the commode...

17 posted on 06/13/2005 7:54:02 AM PDT by Redbob
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To: concerned about politics; 4integrity
#12....We just voted him in.

Good grief, you would think he could 'stay with the program' or at least pretend to!

#13....Kristol is no conservative....he just slept in a Holiday Inn once :^

Don't let Kristol fool you....he quacks like a conservative when it suits him...but can turn on a dime.

18 posted on 06/13/2005 7:55:30 AM PDT by Guenevere
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To: concerned about politics

agree, Martinez should stop listening to liberal media. He got elected cause the President supported him.
And, I pray the President will not listen to liberals and those who are more concerned about public relations than national security. We've already been too accomodating to these people who tried..and, if allowed, will try again..to kill Americans.


19 posted on 06/13/2005 7:57:02 AM PDT by 4integrity
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To: 4integrity
On Fox News Sunday,Bill Kristol, a supposed conservative, suggested closing Gitmo. Brit Hume, who disagreed, laced into him.

Forget the Cambridge halfway house, send them to live with Kristol while he gets them ready to be productive illegal immigrants entering American society to reak havoc and mayhem.

20 posted on 06/13/2005 7:57:08 AM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: bozot
"While you are at it, look up the statistics on how many young American men die, per thousand, in auto accidents, shootings, and other causes here in the US

Most deaths are in the liberal "utopias", too. Maybe the lefties ( who have failed everything they've ever done), should clean up their own back yards before trying to tell others what to do elsewhere. Cleaning up their own messes should keep them busy and out of our hair for decades!

21 posted on 06/13/2005 7:58:15 AM PDT by concerned about politics (Vote Republican - Vote morally correct!)
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To: dts32041

Yes, of course. You may share this with others as you choose. Just preserve my copyright and spell my name right. LOL.

John


22 posted on 06/13/2005 7:59:13 AM PDT by Congressman Billybob (For copies of my speech, "Dealing with Outlaw Judges," please Freepmail me.)
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To: Guenevere

..Kristol....quacks like a conservative when it suits him...

AGREE! I can recall when he was all in favor of the Iraq war.....then, when seemed unpopular....he began to turn.
Brit Hume took Kristol down a peg on FNS.


23 posted on 06/13/2005 8:00:07 AM PDT by 4integrity
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To: Congressman Billybob
OK, done, though I don't think I will send it to my two senators osama obama and eddie haskell.
24 posted on 06/13/2005 8:01:26 AM PDT by dts32041 (Robin Hood, stealing from the government and giving back to tax payer. Where is he today?)
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To: bozot

While you are at it look up how many people die each year in the US because of doctor's mistakes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As a military family, we are willing to make the sacrifice to help keep the people of this country safe!!!!!!!!!!!


25 posted on 06/13/2005 8:01:34 AM PDT by Coldwater Creek ('We voted like we prayed")
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To: 4integrity
On Fox News Sunday,Bill Kristol, a supposed conservative, suggested closing Gitmo.

Maybe he's been busy and not really paying serious attention to the issue, or he's spent too much time reading the liberal press.
Honestly, Americans could care less about Gitmo. The only thing they want changed is the anti-American attacks committed by our own press! They're the only ones making a big deal about this.
Nobody else cares. People (the voters) feel safer will the crazies behind bars.

26 posted on 06/13/2005 8:03:27 AM PDT by concerned about politics (Vote Republican - Vote morally correct!)
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To: Guenevere

..We just voted Matinez in...

Guenevere, Florida here too. And, that's what I said when I called his office. He owes the people who campaigned for him (cause the President wanted us to..!)and voted for him an explanation of exactly where he would put these detainees. Guess, Martinez put a lot of thought into his suggestion to close Gitmo (sarcasm..)cause his staffer said they had not been given talking points to answer questions re this issue. Speaks volumes.


27 posted on 06/13/2005 8:06:46 AM PDT by 4integrity
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To: Congressman Billybob
To press and politicians, I say: Research the facts. Tell the truth. Quit being dumb as a brick. Is that so d*mned difficult?

Unfortunately, for most of the ones you are talking about, the answer is "Yes". Their agenda is at odds with truth, so guess which wins?

You have written a lot of this before but it deserves to be said again, and again, and again. That said, some will never learn, but the lesser fools might.

Good article!

Though you grind a fool in a mortar, grinding him like grain with a pestle, you will not remove his folly from him. - Proverbs 27:22

28 posted on 06/13/2005 8:08:08 AM PDT by Gritty ("Lawyers will turn Gitmo into Clinton's impeachment revels or the Michael Jackson trial-R E Tyrrell)
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To: 4integrity
#27..Figures.

I need to give them a call too.

29 posted on 06/13/2005 8:09:08 AM PDT by Guenevere
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To: concerned about politics

I guess the issue keeps getting mixed up.

The main problem is not why real criminals/terrorists are behind bars.

If someone is guilty they should be tried and punished according to the law.

Jus because the secrecy and the reluctance of having a decent trials - otherwise how we know that those people are really criminals?
Some of them had been picked up in heat of the war and some of them were innocent, or at least not guilty to the level to get this treatment.

Here is the credibility of the USA is on the line about law and legality.
The superpower status allows to ignore this, but I dont think that the isolation would serve the best interest of the country


30 posted on 06/13/2005 8:14:52 AM PDT by bozot
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Comment #31 Removed by Moderator

To: Congressman Billybob
Give all the Gitmo detainees a sex change operation, then release them back to their tolerant muslim friends.
32 posted on 06/13/2005 8:24:46 AM PDT by BallyBill
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To: angrylibertarian
"As long as there is a war on, everyone is subject to the geneva convention."

This is categorically untrue, and the rest of your assertion is equally flawed.

The Geneva Conventions are mutually agreed conventions of war. Show me the signature to any agreement by any one of the Iraqi terrorists.....
33 posted on 06/13/2005 8:27:02 AM PDT by rockrr (Gregorovych Nyet!)
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To: angrylibertarian
Please read the plain English of the Geneva Conventions. They have FOUR conditions. THREE of them do not apply. Do your homework and report back.

You also fail to deal with the Law of War, which applies generally unless the Conventions make exceptions. Under that law, the British executed Nathan Hale, and the Americans executed Major John Andre. I assume you've seen the executions of Germans AFTER the end of WW II, by American troops.

Do you think those Americans were just being barbarians? Or, have you looked at the kind of trials and the applicable law which led to those executions?

In short, you haven't done your homework. You are riding on baseless assumptions, just like most reporters.

John / Billybob
34 posted on 06/13/2005 8:30:04 AM PDT by Congressman Billybob (For copies of my speech, "Dealing with Outlaw Judges," please Freepmail me.)
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To: Guenevere

toll free number to US Capitol and Sen. Martinez' office...
1-877-762-8762.


35 posted on 06/13/2005 8:32:02 AM PDT by 4integrity
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Comment #36 Removed by Moderator

To: Congressman Billybob
This column? Not a moment too soon and if wishes came true - would be up front and center in every MSM. They are so disconnected from the public and this uproar about Gitmo is merely one more symptom. As I have said before, democrat members of my family who never ever miss voting - could care less. We had a get-together last week and to a person, they do not care, do not want to know, and Gitmo is a good a place as any for them.

Re German POW camps - there were five in Louisiana. Some of the POWs picked cotton for the farmers whose males were away fighting the war. They earned .80 a day. Oh the humanity, eh? Where was ACLU? We had nearly half a million POWs scattered across the country - mostly in the south and southeast in rural areas. Comparing the two sets of POWs (WW2 & WOT), the fine hand of the ACLU, the MSM, and the various "humanity groups" makes very plain the direction they are trying to take our country.

37 posted on 06/13/2005 8:41:37 AM PDT by daybreakcoming
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Comment #38 Removed by Moderator

To: mariabush

"We will never be completely safe "

Ok... You inprison the muslims...
Then the leftist (practically whole of Europe)...
Then the leftist in the US...
Then the Chineese ,the Russians...
Where would you stop ?


39 posted on 06/13/2005 8:46:08 AM PDT by bozot
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To: 4integrity

Thanks!


40 posted on 06/13/2005 8:56:34 AM PDT by Guenevere
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To: angrylibertarian

Actually it has nothing to do with religion, muslim or otherwise. These are multiple groups of ignorant fanatics (not necessarily uneducated) who are being manipulated by some power crazy mulahs into believing that their lot in life has been caused by the 'unbelieving heathens'. Like some of our youthful (and not so youthful) college folks, they are easily manipulated into believing that America is the problem. If we don't get a hold of our education system - we 'gonna lose this country'!


41 posted on 06/13/2005 9:21:58 AM PDT by Eighth Square
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To: jwalsh07

I have a better suggestion. Each detainee should be put under house arrest under the daily care of an ACLU lawyer.
Hide the cutlery!


42 posted on 06/13/2005 9:21:58 AM PDT by WoodstockCat (W2 !!! Four more Years!!)
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To: angrylibertarian
The very words you quote show that the terrorists are NOT protected by the Geneva Conventions. They are "illegal combatants."

You should be familiar with In Re Quirin, the unanimous Supreme Court decision in 1942 which approved the trial, and execution if so ruled, of "illegal combatants" including two who claimed to be American citizens. And the "trials" you refer to for Hale and Andre were, exactly as I said in my column, "drumhead trials."

These are "military tribunals" on the battlefield. They have nothing to do with ordinary US civil or criminal courts.

You are reading the right sources. You are just not comprehending what you are reading.

John / Billybob

43 posted on 06/13/2005 9:22:58 AM PDT by Congressman Billybob (For copies of my speech, "Dealing with Outlaw Judges," please Freepmail me.)
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To: angrylibertarian
So either they have protections as POWs, or they have protections as detained civilians.

No, there is yet another class mentioned in the Conventions, that of saboteur or illegal combatant. Under the Conventions, this group has less protections than the other two and the Conventions make it quite clear that they can be held incommunicado for the duration so long as the holding country deems them a threat.

44 posted on 06/13/2005 9:32:10 AM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: bozot

The Muslims!!!!!!!! They are the worst.


45 posted on 06/13/2005 9:36:44 AM PDT by Coldwater Creek ('We voted like we prayed")
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To: angrylibertarian

Well my friend, if the Muslim's are not controlled then you won't have to wonder just what they would do to us!!!!!!!!!!


46 posted on 06/13/2005 9:38:58 AM PDT by Coldwater Creek ('We voted like we prayed")
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To: Eighth Square
I have to respectfully disagree with you about not having anything to do with religion. These terrorist are all about religion. They will not stop until they have converted the World.
47 posted on 06/13/2005 9:44:00 AM PDT by Coldwater Creek ('We voted like we prayed")
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To: Congressman Billybob

Great article. I am passing it along with the length to your post.

Thanks for posting it.


48 posted on 06/13/2005 9:50:25 AM PDT by unlearner
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To: Guenevere

once Bush showed weakness by saying "all options are being looked at", the weak hands started to fold. Cheney seems to have taken a tough stance, but its up to Bush to refute these lies from the left about Gitmo.


49 posted on 06/13/2005 9:52:57 AM PDT by oceanview
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To: unlearner

length = link

(How did I miss that?)


50 posted on 06/13/2005 9:59:05 AM PDT by unlearner
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