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FR Poll Thread: "The Patriot Act Should be..."
Free Republic ^ | 6-13-2005 | DTogo

Posted on 06/13/2005 10:21:02 AM PDT by DTogo

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To: phoenix_004
Because Bush endorses it does not make it right.

He's also for open borders and a total lack of enforcement vis-a-vis illegal immigration, and that is ALSO not right.

And finally if you have nothing to hide then you got nothing to fear!!!

I absolutely despise this line of reasoning.

With it, I can say: "And finally if you have nothing to hide then you got nothing to fear from warrantless searches!!!"

With it, I can say: "And finally if you have nothing to hide then you got nothing to fear from 24/7 automated surveillance!!!"

With it, I can say: "And finally if you have nothing to hide then you got nothing to fear from a total lack of financial privacy!!!"

Your take on it is the antithesis of what this country should -- and used to -- stand for.

101 posted on 06/13/2005 11:36:02 AM PDT by Lazamataz (The Republican Party is the France of politics.)
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To: phoenix_004

"nothing to hide then you got nothing to fear!!!"

Please provide your full name, account number, date of birth, and mother's maiden name...

Just as loony....


102 posted on 06/13/2005 11:36:11 AM PDT by dakine
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To: phoenix_004
And finally if you have nothing to hide then you got nothing to fear!!!

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Amendment VI

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.

habeas corpus (hay-bee-uhs kawr-puhs)

A legal term meaning that an accused person must be presented physically before the court with a statement demonstrating sufficient cause for arrest. Thus, no accuser may imprison someone indefinitely without bringing that person and the charges against him or her into a courtroom. In Latin, habeas corpus literally means “you shall have the body.”

* September, 1999: Denver SWAT team members shoot and kill 45-year-old Ismael Mena, a father of nine, after he attempted to defend himself and his family from the unannounced, masked intruders who broke down his bedroom door as he slept. The SWAT team was carrying out a no-knock raid, but had the wrong address on their search warrant. Mena was shot eight times and died on the spot after he fired one shot from a .22 caliber pistol. No drugs were found at the house. The city of Denver paid $400,000 to settle a lawsuit with the Mena family. The officer in charge of the raid pled guilty this month to a perjury charge pertaining to his affidavit seeking the search warrant. In February, a Denver grand jury cleared that officer and two other police shooters of any other wrongdoing.

* January, 2000: An Arlington, Texas police officer shoots and kills 48-year-old Raymond J. Sanchez during a methamphetamine bust. Police alleged that Sanchez tried to run them over while fleeing after his passenger was arrested. The father of four died in a Kwik Wash parking lot after being shot one time. In May, an Arlington grand jury cleared the police shooter of any wrongdoing.

* March, 2000: A New York City police officer shoots and kills Patrick Dorismond, the fourth unarmed black man killed by the city's police in little more than a year. Undercover police accosted Dorismond, a 24-year-old security guard, as he and a friend hailed a cab. In what police described as a "buy and bust" operation in which they approach strangers on the steet and ask them for drugs, Dorismond angrily rejected the undercover agents' request and the dispute escalated into a scuffle. Dorismond was shot once in the chest and died within minutes. In a sign of intense community anger at Dorismond's and other killings, 23 officers and five civilians were injured in a melee at his funeral. In July, a New York grand jury cleared the police shooter of any wrongdoing.

* June, 2000: A suburban St. Louis detective and a DEA agent, acting as members of a multi-agency drug task force, shoot and kill two 36-year-old black men, Earl Murray and Ronald Beasley, in their vehicle in the parking lot of a busy suburban Jack in the Box restaurant. The police were attempting to arrest Murray for allegedly selling rocks of crack cocaine to undercover officers on two previous occasions. Police said they shot the two after Murray, the driver, attempted to flee. Police said they feared that Murray would run them down. No weapons were found in the vehicle. Beasley, the passenger, was not a target of the bust. Police described his death as "unintended, but not a mistake." In August, a St. Louis County grand jury cleared the police shooters of any wrongdoing.

* October, 2000: Two Lebanon, Tennessee police officers executing a search warrant for the wrong house shoot and kill John Adams, 64, in his living room. According to Adams' wife, Loriane, police repeatedly refused to identify themselves as they banged on the door, then broke the door down, handcuffed her, and shot her husband several times. Police claim he shot at them with a sawed off shotgun. Loraine Adams says this is not so. The Tennessee Bureau of Investigation is investigating.

103 posted on 06/13/2005 11:36:17 AM PDT by pageonetoo (You'll spot their posts soon enough!)
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To: loborojo
... I just think that W.O.T. is here to stay.

THE DEVIL’S ADVOCATE, Taylor Caldwell, page 32”But long before this final act of murder was done, America was already slave. After the first two deliberate wars of this century, which had not completely ruined the world, a plot was laid for the ultimate tragedy. Communist Russia had been exhausted by the second World War, and upon her all the hopes of despots and tyrants laid. So American Presidents lent her billions of the American peoples’ money, directly and indirectly, fed her, armed her, encouraged her, until she was strong enough to ‘fight,’ and thus create another World War. The tyrants of Russia and America knew what they were doing. So began a calculated era of declared and undeclared wars, of complete confusion, of plotted ruin. In the name of ‘liberty’ and ‘security’ America was deprived of all liberty and security, her best died on a multitude of battlefields. It was no accident that the strongest, the youngest, and the most intelligent, the better-bred, the best-educated, were forced into monster armies. Their murder had been cleverly arranged, so that there would remain in America, only the stupid, the weak, the eager-to-be-slaves, the inferior, the old, the tired, the hopeless, and the debased, who would give no trouble and who had either lost the dream of liberty or had never heard of it.”

104 posted on 06/13/2005 11:37:14 AM PDT by 68 grunt (3/1 India, 3rd, 68-69, 0311)
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To: april15Bendovr
I wonder how many selfish people wouldn't mind changing their opinion on having the patriot act implemented if it were to save them on 9/11/01 standing on the top floors of the WTC as the planes hit and they had to decide to jump off the building hitting the pavement at 200 MPH?

I would gladly jump, if it meant my fellow Americans would enjoy liberty, instead of this damnable "Patriot" Act.

In fact, I would only regret that I would have but one life to give for my country.

105 posted on 06/13/2005 11:37:41 AM PDT by Lazamataz (The Republican Party is the France of politics.)
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To: phoenix_004
My problems with the Patriot Act are as follows.

1. Sneak and peak without warrant.
2. Judge shopping.
3. Asset forfeiture without conviction(My biggest problem). "Affirmative Defense" needed to get property back. That means guilty till proven innocent.
4. No clear definition on what a 'terrorist' is.
5. Someone like Klinton with these powers.

I notice that President Bush dodges anything to do with that.

And finally if you have nothing to hide then you got nothing to fear!!!

I have a helluva lot to hide from the next Bill Klinton or mid level bureaucratic pukes who would like to make themselves look good bucking for a promotion. Planting evidence for one.

106 posted on 06/13/2005 11:39:13 AM PDT by Dan from Michigan (June 14 - Defeat DeWine - Vote Tom Brinkman for Congress (OH-2) - http://www.gobrinkman.com)
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To: april15Bendovr
just bendover...

Nothing within the Patriot Act would have stopped the attacks on 9/11... Nothing within the Patriot Act will bring them back... Every liberty taken temporarily, is gone forever!

107 posted on 06/13/2005 11:43:12 AM PDT by pageonetoo (You'll spot their posts soon enough!)
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To: Lazamataz

"Your take on it is the antithesis of what this country should -- and used to -- stand for."

Amen! Can I get a witness!


108 posted on 06/13/2005 11:43:21 AM PDT by dljordan
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To: Red Badger
Nope. Don't exclude anyone.

You could become a terrorist if you want to.

Make everybody be under the patriot act and make it even more harsh.

Put people in prison for anything I say. Put them in for J walking. Terrorism could raise its ugly head with J walking. We could find that terrorists J walk. Or even spit on the sidewalk.

I think we should put people in prison for spitting on the sidewalk. We could catch terrorists because they could spit on the sidewalk.

We should make speeding a terrorist act.

Many terrorists could be speeding and we could catch them if we make it part of the patriot act.

We should not sunset anything. Allow this law to be the law of the land.

Make posting on Free Republic a terrorist act.

I'm sure that there are some people who are terrorists that post here.

Lets make everything a federal crime punnishable by the patriot act.

After all, if even one person could be saved by the patriot act, then it should be law.

{By the way, isn't this what the left says about gun control?}

109 posted on 06/13/2005 11:46:11 AM PDT by Radioactive (I'm on the radio..so I'm radioactive)
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To: pbrown

>>We didn't fly planes into buildings yet we are having our rights taken away.<<

By OUR government, not Osama bin Laden!


110 posted on 06/13/2005 11:46:34 AM PDT by B4Ranch ( Report every illegal alien that you meet. Call 866-347-2423, Employers use 888-464-4218)
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To: april15Bendovr

More than ever!


111 posted on 06/13/2005 11:47:07 AM PDT by B4Ranch ( Report every illegal alien that you meet. Call 866-347-2423, Employers use 888-464-4218)
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To: april15Bendovr

What is the difference between no freedom under terrorism or no freedom under tyranny?


112 posted on 06/13/2005 11:49:09 AM PDT by CSM ( If the government has taken your money, it has fulfilled its Social Security promises. (dufekin))
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To: phoenix_004
Common.

How do you give a government that does not shut down its borders the power they are asking for?

Let them do the right thing first by shutting down the borders and then lets talk about giving them more power.

DOn't ever give the government more power than you are willing to give up forever.

113 posted on 06/13/2005 11:49:23 AM PDT by Radioactive (I'm on the radio..so I'm radioactive)
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To: loborojo
I just think that W.O.T. is here to stay.

You should have said.....I just think the NWO (New world Order) is here to stay.

114 posted on 06/13/2005 11:50:39 AM PDT by Radioactive (I'm on the radio..so I'm radioactive)
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To: PaRebel

Amen and amen.


115 posted on 06/13/2005 11:51:06 AM PDT by Radioactive (I'm on the radio..so I'm radioactive)
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To: DTogo

Make it permanent. We are in a war that will probably never ever end. I hope we can prevent another mass murder 911 attack. Not arrest suicide bombers after an act is carried out. I disagree with the arguments that this act would be dangerous with another Clinton administration. That sounds like DU conspiracy talk to me. As long as presidents are limited to 4-year terms I don't see presidents as all powerful and above the law.


116 posted on 06/13/2005 11:51:55 AM PDT by faq
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To: faq

"I don't see..."

Yep...


117 posted on 06/13/2005 11:53:53 AM PDT by dakine
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To: B4Ranch
By OUR government, not Osama bin Laden!

And he must be sitting on his haunches laughing his ass off about what a great thing he caused to happen. America, destroying itself from within.

118 posted on 06/13/2005 11:54:10 AM PDT by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: CSM
There is no better place to ask that question than in Iraq right now.

Lots of insurgents that streamed in to gain control with a radical Islamic agenda after the UN turned its back on a Tyrant dictator.

Maybe if we didn't decide to bring the war to the terrorists who know what more would be happening here at home?
119 posted on 06/13/2005 11:54:44 AM PDT by april15Bendovr
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To: billbears
Iran, Syria and Iraq have historically attacked the US with terrorist acts. Republican AND Democratic State Departments have agreed. The Whole World thought Iraq had WMDs, now they don't because the Republican President did the only thing that would once and for all, answer the WMD question. He went in there and took Saddam out. WMD is not anymore, a question, it is resolved.

Not only are there no WMDs in Iraq, Saddam will never get WMDs in the future.

The CIA warned US of a threat and that threat already had hit US in the 1993 wTC bombing that for the grace of God did not topple the building instantly and kill many more than died on 9/11. So those who would place the CIA under condemnation, bunch our enemies with our friends - well....... I don't confuse those two very different groups.
120 posted on 06/13/2005 11:54:46 AM PDT by TomasUSMC (FIGHT LIKE WW2, FINISH LIKE WW2. FIGHT LIKE NAM, FINISH LIKE NAM.)
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To: faq
As long as presidents are limited to 4-year terms I don't see presidents as all powerful and above the law.

And how are voters going to know if the law's been violated, if it's mostly conducted in secret?

121 posted on 06/13/2005 11:56:03 AM PDT by inquest (FTAA delenda est)
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To: DTogo

Patriot Act needs to have some fine tuning done, and then be made a permanent part of Federal Law.

However, there is no chance in hell that anyone is going to support major expansions or permanent status of the Patriot Act that affects Citizens, as long as illegal aliens control the entire I-5 corridor, clear up to Seattle...


122 posted on 06/13/2005 11:56:44 AM PDT by Bean Counter
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To: Dan from Michigan

My problems with the Patriot Act are as follows.

That it was even considered for a vote and that it was passed by our 'freedom loving' lying legislators. The man who authorized it to go to the floor for a vote should be lynched!


123 posted on 06/13/2005 11:57:44 AM PDT by B4Ranch ( Report every illegal alien that you meet. Call 866-347-2423, Employers use 888-464-4218)
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To: april15Bendovr

"Maybe if we didn't decide to bring the war to the terrorists who know what more would be happening here at home?"

How can you state such a thing. Your support of the Patriot Act would indicate that you think that is what will protect us from terrorist acts.

Which is it that you support? Taking away rights of our own citizens or taking the fight to the terrorist's home land?


124 posted on 06/13/2005 11:58:04 AM PDT by CSM ( If the government has taken your money, it has fulfilled its Social Security promises. (dufekin))
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To: DTogo; pbrown

WOW, you guys---this was obviously a great idea over two hundred posts already!!!

I'll be back, have to change a diaper!!!


125 posted on 06/13/2005 11:59:04 AM PDT by Txsleuth (Mark Levin for Supreme Court Justice)
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To: Txsleuth

Thanks, see you when you get back. :-)


126 posted on 06/13/2005 12:00:26 PM PDT by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: pageonetoo

One of my old tag lines was something like ,"Wave your flag, don't waive your rights."

Where are the FReepers who lost a parent or a relative in a war? Voting to make it permanent or extend it? I hope not!


127 posted on 06/13/2005 12:01:12 PM PDT by B4Ranch ( Report every illegal alien that you meet. Call 866-347-2423, Employers use 888-464-4218)
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To: CSM
I am for taking the fight to the terrorists and moving the termites nest away from America.

I am not for permanently removing the rights of American citizens as I am a Constitutionalist. I due however strongly feel that we do need to give up some rights at the time of war just like we did during WW2.
I remember my mother telling us how they had a curfew on leaving the lights on near the coast. My grandmother stated to me they had to ration everything.

I wonder how much Americans are focused on entitlements rather than rights when it comes to preventative measures to preserve our freedom?
128 posted on 06/13/2005 12:06:46 PM PDT by april15Bendovr
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To: TomasUSMC
Iran, Syria and Iraq have historically attacked the US with terrorist acts.

REALLY? The only attack on US soil was 9/11 and that was from the Taliban in Afghanistan, an attack that could not be tied to Iraq.

The Whole World thought Iraq had WMDs,

Wow and to think we were a sovereign nation of states that didn't need to receive any sort of confirmation from the rest of the world. Now that WMDs aren't there, nor were they ever probably, we rely on the argument the 'whole world thought so'.

Not only are there no WMDs in Iraq, Saddam will never get WMDs in the future.

And in place of Saddam, the police action has removed the only secular government in the region. I'm sure you'll think it just as cozy in 25 years or less, the Iraqis vote in their theocratic government. But it'll be done democratically and so it will be acceptable.

The CIA warned US of a threat and that threat already had hit US in the 1993 wTC bombing that for the grace of God did not topple the building instantly and kill many more than died on 9/11. So those who would place the CIA under condemnation, bunch our enemies with our friends - well....... I don't confuse those two very different groups.

I can't respond because I have no idea what you're saying here. The CIA was the group that supplied the 'intel' on WMDs. The WMDs weren't there. Who do you blame? Let's just continue the blatant falsehood and say they were shipped somewhere. WorldNutDaily thinks so and that's all the confirmation we need right?

129 posted on 06/13/2005 12:07:20 PM PDT by billbears (Deo Vindice)
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To: faq; Dead Corpse
Make it permanent. We are in a war that will probably never ever end. I hope we can prevent another mass murder 911 attack. Not arrest suicide bombers after an act is carried out. I disagree with the arguments that this act would be dangerous with another Clinton administration. That sounds like DU conspiracy talk to me. As long as presidents are limited to 4-year terms I don't see presidents as all powerful and above the law.

"Never underestimate the will of the downtrodden to lie flatter." -- Dead Corpse, Free Republic.

130 posted on 06/13/2005 12:07:29 PM PDT by Lazamataz (The Republican Party is the France of politics.)
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To: loborojo

"One of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the great struggle for independence." - Charles A. Beard

“For your own good” is a persuasive argument that will eventually make a man agree to his own destruction." - Janet Frame

"Now those who seek absolute power, even though they seek it to do what they regard as good, are simply demanding the right to enforce their own version of heaven on earth, and let me remind you they are the very ones who always create the most hellish tyranny." - Barry Goldwater "If the author of the Declaration of Independence were to utter such a sentiment today, the Post Office Department could exclude him from the mail, grand juries could indict him for sedition and criminal syndicalism, legislative committees could seize his private papers ... and United States Senators would be clamoring for his deportation that he... should be sent back to live with the rest of the terrorists." - Frank I. Cobb

"The evils of tyranny are rarely seen but by him who resists it." -John Hay

"If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy" - James Madison

"Everything secret degenerates, even the administration of justice; nothing is safe that does not show how it can bear discussion and publicity." -Lord Acton

"If men, through fear, fraud, or mistake, should in terms renounce or give up any natural right, the eternal law of reason and the grand end of society would absolutely vacate such renunciation. The right to freedom being the gift of Almighty God, it is not in the power of man to alienate this gift and voluntarily become a slave." - Samuel Adams

"The first people totalitarians destroy or silence are men of ideas and free minds." - Isaiah Berlin

"Every effort to confine Americanism to a single pattern, to constrain it to a single formula, is disloyalty to everything that is valid in Americanism." -Henry Steele Commager

"Men in authority will always think that criticism of their policies is dangerous. They will always equate their policies with patriotism, and find criticism subversive." -Henry Steele Commager

"Find out just what the people will submit to and you have found out the exact amount of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them; and these will continue until they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress." -Frederick Douglass

"It is better, so the Fourth Amendment teaches us, that the guilty sometimes go free than the citizens be subject to easy arrest." - Justice William O. Douglas

"The mission of the Gestapo expanded steadily as, from 1933 onward, “political criminality” was given a much broader definition than ever before and most forms of dissent and criticism were gradually criminalized. The result was that more “laws” or lawlike measures were put on the books than ever." -Shelia Fitzpatrick

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive." -C.S. Lewis

"I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." - Thomas Jefferson

"There is no crueler tyranny than that which is perpetuated under the shield of law and in the name of justice." - Charles de Montesquieu

"Necessity, the tyrant's plea" - John Milton

"The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants, and it provides the further advantage of giving the servants of tyranny a good conscience" - Albert Camus

131 posted on 06/13/2005 12:07:34 PM PDT by to_zion
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To: DTogo

Extended, with common sense adjustments. Keeping in mind that misuse and abuse of these powers will occur in the wrong hands.


132 posted on 06/13/2005 12:08:51 PM PDT by skr (May God bless those in harm's way and confound those who would do the harming)
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To: april15Bendovr

Rations wouldn't be necessary if the free market were allowed to work. If prices were allowed to rise in tragic times, people would self ration. People would still be free to chose how to spend their resources.

Your example of rationing is a far cry from the Patriot Act.


133 posted on 06/13/2005 12:09:34 PM PDT by CSM ( If the government has taken your money, it has fulfilled its Social Security promises. (dufekin))
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To: faq
As long as presidents are limited to 4-year terms I don't see presidents as all powerful and above the law.

Haven't studied a lot of our own history in the past 145 years have you?

134 posted on 06/13/2005 12:09:46 PM PDT by billbears (Deo Vindice)
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To: DTogo

I would like the Patriot Act to sunset again in about 5-10 years. I do NOT support making it permanent.


135 posted on 06/13/2005 12:09:49 PM PDT by ncpatriot
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To: to_zion
"If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy" - James Madison

There's the winner. It's happening now.

136 posted on 06/13/2005 12:10:28 PM PDT by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: inquest

There are very few secrets in government. Think of all the whistleblowers. And if someone is wronged, you know the press would be more than happy to report their story.

(Note: Sorry, I meant to post a reply the first time, not send a freepmail. That was an accident.)


137 posted on 06/13/2005 12:11:20 PM PDT by faq
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To: DTogo

Dump the Patriot Act and just enforce the borders. Allow the FBI to "profile" possible terror suspects. Hmmm, that's odd...they're all young, male, Middle-eastern descent, and Muslim. Could it be a profile?


138 posted on 06/13/2005 12:14:37 PM PDT by gregwest
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To: pbrown

I'm thinking there should have been a choice that we have the Patriot Act when a Republican is POTUS, but NOT when a dem is POTUS!!! lol

I am afraid I haven't found a choice that fits my vote, without a tweak here and there...that also isn't on the list.

I'm thinking, and reading---

I am totally enjoying the different responses and reasons...I just love Freepers--they are all so smart!


139 posted on 06/13/2005 12:14:40 PM PDT by Txsleuth (Mark Levin for Supreme Court Justice)
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To: Lazamataz
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. -Declaration of Independence.

Too big to fit on a tagline though. Also, I have no idea who first came up with my tagline. I found it off of Google at some point in the past. If anyone knows, let me know so I can give proper attribution.

140 posted on 06/13/2005 12:14:59 PM PDT by Dead Corpse (Never underestimate the will of the downtrodden to lie flatter.)
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Comment #141 Removed by Moderator

To: CSM

My family members that faught in WW2 always stated to me "I am afraid your generation has yet to understand the sacrifices made for your freedom." "You have not even seen a threat to your freedom up until 9/11.

They are right


142 posted on 06/13/2005 12:15:42 PM PDT by april15Bendovr
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To: pbrown; B4Ranch
One of my brothers is assistant mgr at an International Airport. He knows how much the security is worth... and how much it costs.

I think one of the final blows to freedom, was Klintoons closing (oh, excuse me, the Secret Service's) of Pennsylvania Avenue, in response to the Oklahoma City bombing.

Osama saw what it cost us then, and placed his bets...

It is imponderable what the monetary cost has been to date, much less the wasted time, and bare feet crap in the airports...

Just the Penn Ave closing cost literally millions of lost hours, and wasted fuel, by redirecting traffic two blocks east...

Yep, Osama won! The Politicians are just playing for their fans...

I don't like their sport!

143 posted on 06/13/2005 12:16:38 PM PDT by pageonetoo (You'll spot their posts soon enough!)
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To: TomasUSMC

Remember what you said here ten years from now when China comes to take us out for having WMD.

I don't care if you have a gun. I'll make sure mine is bigger and I'm a better shot. I'll keep you under the threat of me using mine if you ever so much as load yours.

Remember in 1986, when President Ronald Reagan wanted to bomb Libya in retaliation for terrorism against citizens of the U.S., you could count on me to do that.

Your whole country would be glass, nothing would be moving because you loaded your WMD and threatened America. There would be no UN discussions, none of that nonsense. Threaten America and you will have made your last mistake. So sure, brag about all your weapons of mass destruction, just don't play with them.


144 posted on 06/13/2005 12:19:14 PM PDT by B4Ranch ( Report every illegal alien that you meet. Call 866-347-2423, Employers use 888-464-4218)
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To: billbears

REALLY? The only attack on US soil was 9/11 and that was from the Taliban in Afghanistan, an attack that could not be tied to Iraq




1993 WTC - not on US soil?

An attack against the US doesn't have to be on US soil.

But let just concentrate on the future. What do we do in Iraq now? I like the bombs that are going off in Iran and am waiting for them to go off in Syria. If we can knock off those governments, then we will be making buku progress.


145 posted on 06/13/2005 12:19:17 PM PDT by TomasUSMC (FIGHT LIKE WW2, FINISH LIKE WW2. FIGHT LIKE NAM, FINISH LIKE NAM.)
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To: faq
There are very few secrets in government. Think of all the whistleblowers.

Yes, let us think of all the whistleblowers.

There is, for example, this whistleblower who wanted to blow the whistle on government shenanigans at Los Alamos Nuclear Lab:

And yet you trust the government to do the right thing with the Patriot Act.

146 posted on 06/13/2005 12:21:59 PM PDT by Lazamataz (The Republican Party is the France of politics.)
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To: B4Ranch

Threaten America and you will have made your last mistake.



I agree with that.


147 posted on 06/13/2005 12:22:01 PM PDT by TomasUSMC (FIGHT LIKE WW2, FINISH LIKE WW2. FIGHT LIKE NAM, FINISH LIKE NAM.)
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To: faq
Think of all the whistleblowers.

Think also of all the potential whistleblowers who get intimidated into silence. Do you think we know everything that the Clintons were up to?

148 posted on 06/13/2005 12:22:13 PM PDT by inquest (FTAA delenda est)
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To: faq

Then you have an exceptionally poor understanding of the Constitution, and you have absolutely no foresight.


149 posted on 06/13/2005 12:23:55 PM PDT by mysterio
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To: DTogo
I voted to "Drop"

I don't trust ANY of these people with this broad power and it won't stand up to the Constitution.

What more needs to be said?

150 posted on 06/13/2005 12:24:39 PM PDT by USMC79to83
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