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FR Poll Thread: "The Patriot Act Should be..."
Free Republic ^ | 6-13-2005 | DTogo

Posted on 06/13/2005 10:21:02 AM PDT by DTogo

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To: pbrown

>>I voted to eliminate it.<<

"I'm leaning in that direction myself. I just haven't decided 100% yet."

Have you made up your mind yet?


151 posted on 06/13/2005 12:26:39 PM PDT by B4Ranch ( Report every illegal alien that you meet. Call 866-347-2423, Employers use 888-464-4218)
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To: pbrown; All
"Not unlike the countries in Southeast Asia, America and the West will seriously have to consider implementating further authoritative measures within our own societies in the near future to deal with the revanche of Islamic fundamentalism should we fail to address the political aspirations and aspects of Islam now."

"Simultaneously punishing and placating the adherents of Islamic fascism achieve nothing. It is not insults and intolerance that fuel the fires of fascism, it is our appeasement and our own self-abasement that provide fuel for the fire."

There was a time when I thought I had an education that money could not buy, having spent a good portion of my live living in a Muslim country has turned into the curse of Cassandra instead.

An American Expat in Southeast Asia

152 posted on 06/13/2005 12:27:46 PM PDT by expatguy (http://laotze.blogspot.com/)
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To: Txsleuth
I'm thinking, and reading---

As am I. If I can't tweak the choices, I'll have to vote for getting rid of it. Too many scary scenarios possible with the leftist dims, if they get ahold of it.

I am totally enjoying the different responses and reasons...I just love Freepers--they are all so smart!

Me too. This is just the input I wanted. I wanted to hear different explanations from FReepers before I voted.

153 posted on 06/13/2005 12:27:52 PM PDT by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: TomasUSMC
1993 WTC - not on US soil?

And not sponsored by those nation states named

An attack against the US doesn't have to be on US soil.

It has to be against something US owned. Attacks on or in other nation states as well as attacks on civilians that have chosen to go into a danger zone are not the responsibility nor concern of the national government

But let just concentrate on the future. What do we do in Iraq now?

Establish your silly democracy. Pat everybody on the back when the job's done. It won't last if the citizens of that nation decide differently, which they more than likely will.

I like the bombs that are going off in Iran and am waiting for them to go off in Syria. If we can knock off those governments, then we will be making buku progress.

You like deaths of innocent civilians? Bloodthirst a bit in overdrive don't you think? And of course, you'll be able to provide Constitutional grounding to 'knock off those governments' won't you? Of course not. But don't let that stop the rambling WOT for you

154 posted on 06/13/2005 12:28:17 PM PDT by billbears (Deo Vindice)
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To: B4Ranch

"If people need convincing to be free, then they probably don't deserve to be." -L. Neil Smith.


155 posted on 06/13/2005 12:28:49 PM PDT by Dead Corpse (Never underestimate the will of the downtrodden to lie flatter.)
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To: pageonetoo
Yep, Osama won! The Politicians are just playing for their fans...

We will be reaping osama's whirlwind for decades. He got more than he ever thought he would.

156 posted on 06/13/2005 12:31:16 PM PDT by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: TomasUSMC

If you agree then why is it necessary for us to fight in Iran and Syria? Let those people change their own government if they want freedom!

This willingness to give up the blood of American soldiers is something that disturbs me. If you have a son who will be on the front lines in those countries then I'll view your post will more respect.


157 posted on 06/13/2005 12:32:27 PM PDT by B4Ranch ( Report every illegal alien that you meet. Call 866-347-2423, Employers use 888-464-4218)
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To: mysterio; april15Bendovr

I just find it mystifying that someone with the moniker april15Bendovr would support an even more powerful government over one's life.


158 posted on 06/13/2005 12:32:31 PM PDT by kenth
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To: DTogo

Repealed before they use it on all of us.

Here's what they plan for our futures.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1422038/posts


159 posted on 06/13/2005 12:32:57 PM PDT by the gillman@blacklagoon.com (I guess Bin Laden is just Emanuel Goldstein after all.)
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To: B4Ranch
Yes

Eliminate it.

160 posted on 06/13/2005 12:34:05 PM PDT by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: expatguy
"Simultaneously punishing and placating the adherents of Islamic fascism achieve nothing.

God have mercy on their heathen souls when our next 9-11 happens. God also have mercy on the politicians who are in office when that happens.

161 posted on 06/13/2005 12:36:41 PM PDT by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: april15Bendovr
I wonder how much Americans are focused on entitlements rather than rights when it comes to preventative measures to preserve our freedom?

bend over again...

You state you are a constitutionalist. On what grounds should the Bill of Rights be suspended?

I own houses in four states, thousands of miles apart. Two are out west, and two are here in the east. On the way out last fall, I entered into Oklahoma on I-40 heading west. I was traveling with a group of cars, at ONE MILE OVER THE POSTED LIMIT. I had committed no illegal acts, nor was doing anything unusual, but my car was singled out to pull over.

I challenged the stop, as soon as the cop came alongside my car. After a little debate, the officer asked me if I was carrying (insert long list here) anything illegal. I asked him for a reason why he asked the question, and he started getting belligerent with me... I did not back up from him, but pressed for him to acknowledge he was fishing...

Know your rights. They will keep you OUT OF TROUBLE!

I will categorically state that anyone naive enough to think that one item of the Patriot Act has prevented another attack, probably should get help.

Or, just talk to the Santa. He will understand...


162 posted on 06/13/2005 12:37:38 PM PDT by pageonetoo (You'll spot their posts soon enough!)
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To: pbrown

Islam and Christianity do not mix. 9-11 taught us that the hard way because we refused to learn any other way.

Only when we lose our Rights do we yearn to have them again.


163 posted on 06/13/2005 12:40:47 PM PDT by B4Ranch ( Report every illegal alien that you meet. Call 866-347-2423, Employers use 888-464-4218)
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To: pageonetoo

I agree with all you said, and thanks for the break in tension with Santa. I caught your meaning by the way. Just saying, seeing the Santa, made what you posted all the more better. Fairy Tales. :-)


164 posted on 06/13/2005 12:43:28 PM PDT by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: pageonetoo

"I asked him for a reason why he asked the question, and he started getting belligerent with me... "

They are fun times, oh yes.


165 posted on 06/13/2005 12:43:48 PM PDT by B4Ranch ( Report every illegal alien that you meet. Call 866-347-2423, Employers use 888-464-4218)
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To: B4Ranch
Only when we lose our Rights do we yearn to have them again.

On 9-11, I knew this day would be coming soon and I have been dreading it.

166 posted on 06/13/2005 12:45:19 PM PDT by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: B4Ranch
I just voted...dropped.

Only 15.5% believe as I do. That is very unnerving.

167 posted on 06/13/2005 12:51:39 PM PDT by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: B4Ranch

I don't go into Syria and Iran to give them freedom, but to give them hell for attacking us and sponsoring those who have and will again.


168 posted on 06/13/2005 1:07:14 PM PDT by TomasUSMC (FIGHT LIKE WW2, FINISH LIKE WW2. FIGHT LIKE NAM, FINISH LIKE NAM.)
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To: pbrown

I find it frightening how few of the poll respondents want this thing removed or scaled back. Reading some of the replies in this thread gave me chills and made me have to step away from the computer for a minute. What is going on when so many people can't see how wrong this is? And this is just the obvious one that grabs the headlines--what about all the other power grabs by our government that go unreported?

What the heck do we do when even the self-described "conservatives" are in favor of these things? Is our country lost? Are we too far gone for repair?


169 posted on 06/13/2005 1:15:48 PM PDT by Rob_DSM
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To: TomasUSMC

If I was in the White House;

This would be well known througout the entire world.

Sponsor terrorism against the US of A and:
Your whole country will be glass, nothing will be moving because you sponsored terrorism against the US of A or you loaded your WMD and threatened America. There will be no UN discussions, none of that nonsense. Threaten America and you will have made your last mistake.

No soldiers will come to give your people freedom from you because you will have taken it away from them forever.


170 posted on 06/13/2005 1:16:45 PM PDT by B4Ranch ( Report every illegal alien that you meet. Call 866-347-2423, Employers use 888-464-4218)
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To: Rob_DSM

It's the "our guys are in charge so its OK" syndrome. "Our guys" ain't gonna stay in power forever. Considering some of the crap "our guys" have been pulling lately? It's getting to be more like "battered spouse syndrome".


171 posted on 06/13/2005 1:18:31 PM PDT by Dead Corpse (Never underestimate the will of the downtrodden to lie flatter.)
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To: Rob_DSM
I find it frightening how few of the poll respondents want this thing removed or scaled back. Reading some of the replies in this thread gave me chills and made me have to step away from the computer for a minute.

It is frightening. And, unbelievable that so few want it dropped

What is going on when so many people can't see how wrong this is? And this is just the obvious one that grabs the headlines--what about all the other power grabs by our government that go unreported?

It's hard to believe that so many conservatives have no qualms about the government being given the authority to go around, kicking down their doors without warrants.

God help us all should the Patriot act pass.

172 posted on 06/13/2005 1:22:07 PM PDT by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: All

If you could have a "Do over" on your vote for the Patriot Act...would you vote the same way...or change your vote?


173 posted on 06/13/2005 1:24:16 PM PDT by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: pbrown

I'd like a mulligan, if you please....

Change mine from "Pull Back" to "Eliminate".


174 posted on 06/13/2005 1:36:04 PM PDT by reagandemocrat
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To: april15Bendovr

The "rights" you speak of are not the same as the rights in the BOR. The rights being eroded under the Patriot Act are some enumerated in the BOR and are considered un-alienable, or rights inherent in being a person, often referred to as natural rights.

The glorious thing about the founding of our country is that, for the first time in human history, the natural rights of mankind were to be protected by a government created for that very purpose!

We are losing those rights.


175 posted on 06/13/2005 1:37:49 PM PDT by PaRebel (Self Defense: an unalienable right!)
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To: reagandemocrat
Change mine from "Pull Back" to "Eliminate".

Thank you. I believe this thread has accomplished something, it's caused some to pause.

I only just gave my vote today...time to drop it cold.

176 posted on 06/13/2005 1:40:44 PM PDT by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: PaRebel
Continue that thought...

We are losing those rights... at the hands of the Government that was supposed to protect those RIghts.

177 posted on 06/13/2005 1:51:52 PM PDT by Dead Corpse (Never underestimate the will of the downtrodden to lie flatter.)
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To: loborojo

The problem with that thinking is that you are not taking into account the definitions and standards of "right" and "wrong", and the probability that some unscrupulous politician may one day change those definitions to legally violate the rights of innocent citizens.


178 posted on 06/13/2005 1:57:34 PM PDT by SaveTheChief
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To: phoenix_004
I will concede that some aspects of the current Act are necessary. The ones dealing with law enforcement being able to share information with intelligence. There are some egregious examples that need to remain fixed.

That said, there are a number of bad things that run contrary to the Constitution. Remember, the beauty of our system of government is that it protects the people FROM government. Government doesn't like unknown variables, from anonymity of it's citizens to it's loss of control of it's citizens. This is the nature of government.

Sure, certain members are outstanding patriots, but it is the institution of concentrated power over our lives which seeks to maintain and extend that power. Your favorite Congressman may come and go, but the institution remains. That is what the Framers knew and carefully guarded against. We should not be so willing to pitch it out.

I understand W wants to extend it and on certain key elements, I agree, but the majority was and is a bad idea that we will live to regret if it's made permanent.

Remember Franklin: Those who seek liberty at the expense of freedom deserve neither.
179 posted on 06/13/2005 3:00:21 PM PDT by Rate_Determining_Step (US Military - Draining the Swamp of Terrorism since 2001!)
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To: Radioactive
> We should make speeding a terrorist act.

I know what you said was in jest, but I can actually visualize Hillary or some other Rat claiming that aggressively maximizing deduction in a time of chronic budget shortfalls constitutes an act of terror.

Do you think the IRS wants to be left out of the information loop?
180 posted on 06/13/2005 3:07:30 PM PDT by Rate_Determining_Step (US Military - Draining the Swamp of Terrorism since 2001!)
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To: pbrown

Ya, if the numbers remain the same, we'll have to change the site from FreeRepublic to SecureRepublic. ;)


181 posted on 06/13/2005 3:14:03 PM PDT by Rate_Determining_Step (US Military - Draining the Swamp of Terrorism since 2001!)
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To: DTogo

It should be reason enough to hang for treason everyone who signed it.


182 posted on 06/13/2005 3:17:29 PM PDT by lodwick (Integrity has no need of rules. Albert Camus)
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To: DTogo

I voted "permanent," because I don't smoke anything that makes people paranoid.

[Snicker]


183 posted on 06/13/2005 3:27:42 PM PDT by familyop ("Let us try" sounds better, don't you think? "Essayons" is so...Latin.)
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To: the gillman@blacklagoon.com

Well with some of the posts you've made, your fear may be legitimate.


184 posted on 06/13/2005 3:41:56 PM PDT by Trust but Verify
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To: mysterio
Then you have an exceptionally poor understanding of the Constitution

Federal agents have for decades been permitted to issue administrative subpoenas in order to investigate such matters as narcotics trafficking, insider trading, health care fraud, and even violations of the Occupational Health and Safety Act (OSHA). Since the Supreme Court has not ruled these subpoenas unconstitutional, my understanding of the constitution is the same as the Supreme Court. If someday the court rules those subpoenas as unconstitutional too, then I will change my opinion to match yours.

and you have absolutely no foresight.

I foresee terrorism as the biggest threat to our national security for the foreseeable future.

185 posted on 06/13/2005 4:03:10 PM PDT by faq
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To: DTogo

bookmark


186 posted on 06/13/2005 4:11:48 PM PDT by Alia
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To: Age of Reason

They brought this one to our shores!!


187 posted on 06/13/2005 4:24:31 PM PDT by handy old one (It is unbecoming for young men to utter maxims. Aristotle)
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To: DTogo
It should be let to sunsetas soon as the Middle East situation simmers down.

We don't need a demon-rat with the patriot act in their pocket.

188 posted on 06/13/2005 4:26:50 PM PDT by TypeZoNegative (Future Minnesota Refugee)
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To: Lazamataz; Age of Reason
Germany now protects its citizens from government and other prying so thoroughly, that even reverse phone directories are illegal. ~ Age of Reason

I have a German friend who is shocked at the police state we now live in, in America.

The fact that a citizen of the birthplace of Nazism can be shocked like that, is shocking. ~ Lazamataz

Are Americans really so different from Germans? Nope. A thought that has caused me many a sleepless night.

President Hillary!TM has an orgasm every time she thinks of what the Patriot act can do in her hands.

At least the schmart Germans had a place to run to. If the USofA goes bad, where in the world is safe?

189 posted on 06/13/2005 4:35:38 PM PDT by null and void (Oh what a tag lined web we weave...)
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To: phoenix_004
And finally if you have nothing to hide then you got nothing to fear!!!

Riiiiight!

I was sued recently because a drugged up woman came over to my house and tried to grab a less than one day old puppy from it's momma. She was bitten. (DUH!)

I wasn't home.

It's not my dog.

I did nothing wrong.

She won $75,000.00

No man's Life, Liberty, or Property are safe as long as court is in session.

190 posted on 06/13/2005 4:42:09 PM PDT by null and void (Oh what a tag lined web we weave...)
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To: handy old one
They brought this one to our shores!!

Because they hate our freedom, right?

191 posted on 06/13/2005 4:43:06 PM PDT by Age of Reason
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To: DCPatriot

Just remember that a Democratic Administration (Hillary) can use the Partiot Act to target...uh, Freepers.

yes


and so can a republican administration


wrong is wrong


192 posted on 06/13/2005 4:43:52 PM PDT by WhiteGuy ("a taxpayer dollar must be spent wisely, or not at all" - GW BUSH </sarcasm>)
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To: Age of Reason

YUP!! Then we sent it back with postage due.


193 posted on 06/13/2005 4:46:41 PM PDT by handy old one (It is unbecoming for young men to utter maxims. Aristotle)
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To: Rate_Determining_Step
Ya, if the numbers remain the same, we'll have to change the site from FreeRepublic to SecureRepublic. ;)

A sad thought.

194 posted on 06/13/2005 4:53:51 PM PDT by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: pbrown

Peace and safety...


195 posted on 06/13/2005 5:11:01 PM PDT by null and void (Oh what a tag lined web we weave...)
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To: null and void
Peace and safety...

Thank you.

I'm afraid I don't see too much of either in Americas future at the moment. But, as long as there's hope, there's a chance.

196 posted on 06/13/2005 5:26:54 PM PDT by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: pbrown

I think you missed the Biblical reference...


197 posted on 06/13/2005 5:28:39 PM PDT by null and void (Oh what a tag lined web we weave...)
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To: null and void
Peace and safety...

What's the entire verse?

198 posted on 06/13/2005 5:41:35 PM PDT by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: DTogo
"The Patriot Act Should be..."

Repealed. Why give up our liberty to a government that will not enforce its sovereignty? Guard its borders? Protect its people from invasion?

199 posted on 06/13/2005 5:44:40 PM PDT by afnamvet (31st Fighter Wing Tuy Hoa AB RVN 68-69 "Return with Honor")
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To: Dan from Michigan

The Patriot Act was not enacted when Clinton, Reno, etc were in control and we still had Waco and other abuse of power.
We need the Patriot Act now...it is not perfect and some kinks need to be ironed out...but toss it and see what happens.
So easy to say, "protect our borders," but the enormity of doing so is more complicated than mere words.


200 posted on 06/13/2005 5:56:44 PM PDT by katiedidit1
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