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FR Poll Thread: "The Patriot Act Should be..."
Free Republic ^ | 6-13-2005 | DTogo

Posted on 06/13/2005 10:21:02 AM PDT by DTogo

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To: mommadooo3
There are more instances of the abridgement of the freedom of the people by the gradual and silent encroachment of those in power, than by violent and sudden usurpation. -- James Madison

That is all the more true today. It's a shame so many cannot see they want to give away their rights for a false sense of security.

351 posted on 06/15/2005 9:28:25 AM PDT by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: pbrown

Thank you for keeping this thread alive. With the reference to the thread 5 years ago, we witness a great change in FReeper opinion about the Bill of Rights.

It seems that more recent signups support the erosion of our freedoms, while early "O.G." FReepers stand firm against the "Patriot" Act as well as the FISA "Kafka Court".

I am deeply troubled by statements made by some supporters of the Patriot Act, (ie. 'If you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to fear'). Frightening....

RD



352 posted on 06/15/2005 9:34:01 AM PDT by reagandemocrat
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To: pbrown

Hate to bring a religious tilt to this. But, since God knows what's in the hearts of ALL men, and since it's OBVIOUS He was behind the birth of this nation, then He HAS to DO SOMETHING to save the USA. THAT is my 'militant' prayer to Him. And I'm SURE it's the prayer of amny MORE patriots, who sorrow over the direction this country is taking.(just not in the same type of words. LOL!)

FR USED to be THE jewel for things American/patriotism//activism. Has that love really grown cold now that Bush is in office?


353 posted on 06/15/2005 9:46:56 AM PDT by mommadooo3
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To: reagandemocrat
Thank you for keeping this thread alive. With the reference to the thread 5 years ago, we witness a great change in FReeper opinion about the Bill of Rights.

You're welcome.

I'm a relative newbie myself, but I see what can and will happen to our wonderful nation if we don't start standing up now.

It seems that more recent signups support the erosion of our freedoms, while early "O.G." FReepers stand firm against the "Patriot" Act as well as the FISA "Kafka Court".

I keep going back to those sites and read more and more about them. For FReepers not to see the hazards and threats to our very liberty is disheartening.

I am deeply troubled by statements made by some supporters of the Patriot Act, (ie. 'If you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to fear'). Frightening....

God forgive me, I uttered that phrase myself when it was first introduced after 9-11, before I became aware of just what I was willing to trade my freedon for. Nothing is worth my freedom...nothing.

If someone like me can decipher the true meaning of the Patriot Act and the FISA court, some of the more learned on this site should be able too also.

354 posted on 06/15/2005 9:51:18 AM PDT by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: reagandemocrat
I am deeply troubled by statements made by some supporters of the Patriot Act, (ie. 'If you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to fear').

As an old-timer, I remember that we, FReepers, were doing nothing wrong, during the klintler years. But that didn't stop many of us from rooting out the corruption/anti-BOR actions/etc. Uncovering the lies was actively pursued. The TRUTH is what we INSISTED upon.

355 posted on 06/15/2005 9:54:05 AM PDT by mommadooo3
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To: pbrown
I keep going back to those sites and read more and more about them

If you click on my name, it'll take you to my homepage, there you can click on 'links'. It's a start. You can do the same for the old-timers on some of the threads there. (if they're still members) Then read some of THEIR links/bookmarks.

If I've told ya something you already know, forgive me. LOL!

I often wonder what it will take to wake the sheeple up to the slowly encroaching tyranny.(even THOUGH it's coming dressed as 'republican')

356 posted on 06/15/2005 10:03:30 AM PDT by mommadooo3
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To: Lazamataz
Gotta agree with that, well said. Ditch the Patriot act. It's BS.


357 posted on 06/15/2005 10:08:13 AM PDT by BigBadWolf (For every animal you don't eat, I'm going to eat three.)
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To: mommadooo3
Hate to bring a religious tilt to this.

Religion plays a big part in our country's creation. One need only look at our founding father's to see just how much a part it played.

I don't attend church services, haven't for many many years. But I pray and read my Bible. We discuss God and his word in my home. I found too many hypocrits in the churches I would attend. I tried several before I gave up. The word of God is not only found inside the walls of wood and brick. I have many closets in my home.

I was faced with a choice as I saw it. Either bring God into the forefront of our country, or sweep him under the rug. The latter I could not and would not do.

Forgive my talk of religion on this thread as well.

FR has some terrific people on it. I'm just amazed at how many have no problem with the PA. I thought this would be an oasis of those who would see the PA as I do.

358 posted on 06/15/2005 10:09:46 AM PDT by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: mommadooo3
If I've told ya something you already know, forgive me. LOL!

You didn't, no need to apologize.

I'll go to your homepage now, thanks.

I often wonder what it will take to wake the sheeple up to the slowly encroaching tyranny.(even THOUGH it's coming dressed as 'republican')

I can answer that question. IMHO...it will take another attack on this country that will make 9-11 pale in comparison. God help us all.

359 posted on 06/15/2005 10:14:00 AM PDT by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: mommadooo3
"... when you see a rattlesnake poised to strike, you do not wait until he has struck before you crush him."...FDR

I really like that one. That is my own line of thinking.

360 posted on 06/15/2005 10:16:23 AM PDT by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: mommadooo3

"I often wonder what it will take to wake the sheeple..."

Many of us wonder that; I have a book from the late '80s early 90s called "The Great Reckoning" by Rees-Moog and another author whose name escapes me, but the thesis of the book is exactly that it will take a huge catastrophic event such as the Great Depression, and maybe worse, to jolt folks out of their "comfort zone". At that time, the "old values" will, by necessity, come back to prominence. My thinking is that if we do have another "great depression", it will make the last one seem benign simply because we have changed dramatically since then.

I totally agree; I think that most people are simply too comfortable to be concerned about such abstract things as the Patriot Act! Ha. Ha. Point is, they arn't concerned until it has a DIRECT effect on them or a close family member or friend.

People fail to realize that this "soft tyranny" is in place and can be used at any time that some "operative" decides to do so. By that time, it's to late to "do anything about it".


361 posted on 06/15/2005 10:18:01 AM PDT by PaRebel (Self Defense: an unalienable right! (The Constitution contains no off-switch))
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To: DTogo
I voted that it be dropped. Any loss of our precious liberties is unacceptable.
362 posted on 06/15/2005 12:33:48 PM PDT by beltfed308 (Cloth or link. Happiness is a perfect trunion.)
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To: beltfed308

When a case is brought forth that clearly demonstrates our liberties were lost because of the P.A., I will agree.


363 posted on 06/15/2005 12:47:53 PM PDT by DTogo (U.S. out of the U.N. & U.N out of the U.S.)
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To: DTogo
Until then we agree to disagree:>) I guess my biggest problem is that once a law is passed, rescinding it is next to impossible.
364 posted on 06/15/2005 1:26:10 PM PDT by beltfed308 (Cloth or link. Happiness is a perfect trunion.)
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To: beltfed308

Yeah, a lot of disagreement here about the P.A. And you're right, once laws (and taxes) are enacted, rescinding them is next to impossible. Damn politicians...


365 posted on 06/15/2005 2:20:44 PM PDT by DTogo (U.S. out of the U.N. & U.N out of the U.S.)
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To: DTogo

bttt


366 posted on 06/15/2005 3:05:14 PM PDT by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: All
I ran across this while reading about what is happening to our country.

It's an excerpt from: Sobran's---How Tyranny came to America

If Washington and Jefferson, Madison, and Hamilton could come back, the first thing they’d notice would be that the federal government now routinely assumes thousands of powers never assigned to it — powers never granted, never delegated, never enumerated. These were the words they used, and it’s a good idea for us to learn their language. They would say that we no longer live under the Constitution they wrote. And the Americans of a much later era — the period from Cleveland to Coolidge, for example — would say we no longer live even under the Constitution they inherited and amended.

For the complete read.

link

367 posted on 06/15/2005 4:10:27 PM PDT by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: Lead Moderator
My post#367. I checked the "Do not Post from List", before I posted and did not see his name.

Delving further into his site I came across this---Not to reprint the "feature" in any publication or on any web site.

I only posted a paragraph, don't know if that makes a difference. Sorry if I caused you a problem.

368 posted on 06/15/2005 4:54:42 PM PDT by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: DTogo

bttt


369 posted on 06/15/2005 8:23:40 PM PDT by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: pbrown
I checked the "Do not Post from List", before I posted and did not see his name.

Where is this list? I looked around the site but couldn't find it.

370 posted on 06/16/2005 1:16:06 PM PDT by inquest (FTAA delenda est)
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To: inquest
Sorry for the delay, try here.

do not post list

371 posted on 06/16/2005 2:10:25 PM PDT by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: inquest
That should tell you everything you need to know.

The more newbie FReepers should bookmark that entire thread.

Again, sorry about the delay.

372 posted on 06/16/2005 2:14:01 PM PDT by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: loborojo
Good afternoon.
If you are not doing anything wrong, then you have nothing to worry about."

Any time a group has unfettered power over us there is something to worry about. That's what the 2nd Amendment is about.

Michael Frazier
373 posted on 06/16/2005 2:20:57 PM PDT by brazzaville (No surrender,no retreat. Well, maybe retreat's ok)
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To: Dan from Michigan
Good afternoon.

I, also voted to eliminate it. A police state will eventually turn on us, because we are easy targets and they need targets to justify their existence.

Michael Frazier
374 posted on 06/16/2005 2:28:08 PM PDT by brazzaville (No surrender,no retreat. Well, maybe retreat's ok)
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To: pbrown
You got back to me in less than an hour. If only I could have more "delays" like that. ;-)

Thanks for the info. It's good to know.

375 posted on 06/16/2005 2:30:30 PM PDT by inquest (FTAA delenda est)
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To: inquest

You're very welcome. :-)


376 posted on 06/16/2005 2:31:55 PM PDT by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: loborojo
If you are not doing anything wrong, then you have nothing to worry about.

Thanks for calming an anxiety fueled by historical memories - we all know how unreliable those are!

I'll read no further down the thread but just focus on blanking my mental slate so as to become a good Koolaid-sipping citizen.

377 posted on 06/16/2005 2:45:39 PM PDT by headsonpikes (Spirit of '76 bttt!)
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To: april15Bendovr
Good evening.
"I remember my mother telling us how they had a curfew on leaving the lights on near the coast. My grandmother stated to me they had to ration everything."

Did your mom and gramma also tell you about warrantless searches and Carnivore?

Michael Frazier
378 posted on 06/16/2005 2:57:45 PM PDT by brazzaville (No surrender,no retreat. Well, maybe retreat's ok)
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To: libertarianben
Good afternoon.
"All I need now is the money, can anyone help me out?"

I might be able to scrape up enough for a bus ticket to Nuevo Laredo, but you've got to promise you won't come back.

Michael Frazier
379 posted on 06/16/2005 3:13:48 PM PDT by brazzaville (No surrender,no retreat. Well, maybe retreat's ok)
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To: All

Is anyone listening to Mark Levin on the Patriot Act and the FISA Court??????


380 posted on 06/16/2005 4:16:30 PM PDT by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: DTogo

With any government action comes the law of unintended consequences. Some of them may be intended, we can never tell. I trust government to do one thing, screw us into the wall every chance they get.


381 posted on 06/16/2005 5:36:58 PM PDT by satchmodog9 (Murder and weather are our only news)
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To: pbrown

Dachau Durbin is a good example of who should be taken into custody under the PA. Say you don't like something, say you want it changes, but saying irresponsible things that immediately get picked up by our enemies and used to whip-up anti-American sentiments/actions??


382 posted on 06/16/2005 5:54:55 PM PDT by DTogo (U.S. out of the U.N. & U.N out of the U.S.)
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To: DTogo
Dachau Durbin is a good example of who should be taken into custody under the PA. Say you don't like something, say you want it changes, but saying irresponsible things that immediately get picked up by our enemies and used to whip-up anti-American sentiments/actions??

Let's put the shoe on the other foot for a minute...

Hillary Clinton has just been elected president. She gets us entangled in a war in Balhalla. The right, conservatives are 100% against the war, it is a leftist war. Like Billyboys was, and conservatives were against it. She is now armed with the PA. A senator complains about the war in Balhalla and they are arrested... now what?

383 posted on 06/16/2005 6:43:46 PM PDT by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: DTogo
Durbins comments should be used to drive him from office.

His anti-American rhetoric is going to get our people killed.

An apology will not work. Only his expulsion from the senate will fit his crime.

384 posted on 06/16/2005 6:53:23 PM PDT by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: brazzaville

oh well. I want to go to Malta. I hear it's nice.


385 posted on 06/16/2005 7:42:00 PM PDT by libertarianben (Looking for sanity and his hard to find cousin common sense)
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To: pbrown

Say you don't like it. Say it's ill-advised. Say the President (Hillary) is wrong. But don't say our troops are abusing the enemy and acting like Nazis/Stalin/Pol Pot, or the President is a liar going to war on "lies, lies, lies" when the "enemy" and his media/propaganda machine are salivating for this type of statement to use to whip-up their own base and/or cause harm to our citizens/interests/soldiers overseas. There's responsbile disagreement/discourse, especially for elected officials you expect to act responsibly, and then there's blatently seditious/treasonous behaviour, which IMHO is where Durbin and many Lefties have wandered into. Anything to hurt Bush, even if it hurts the country and our citizens/soldiers. Agenda/ideology above country - that's plain WRONG.


386 posted on 06/16/2005 9:58:17 PM PDT by DTogo (U.S. out of the U.N. & U.N out of the U.S.)
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To: DTogo
Good heavens DTogo. How could you even think I would mean something like that! I agree with everything you said.

I myself believe that they use free speech as a Trojan horse to whip up anti-American hatred, I said so on this very thread.

Durbin needs to be brought before the senate and stripped of his seat. He needs to be thrown out with the garbage.

I do not want the power of the PA in the hands of the hildabeast. It would be the kiss of death to our country.

Turbin Durbin is a traitor to this country as well as all those who thinks as he does. His stupid blind hatred of America is going to get alot of our soldiers killed. Hell, Al-Jerkzerra is praising him. Any American who loves this country would finally get the connection between the dimocraps and leftist. Al-Jerkzerra is their cheerleader.

I have been on several durbin threads all day. The anger in America to what he said...TWICE...are calling for him to be banished from the senate.

Comparing our soldiers to nazis...I will never get over that.

It's time to start arresting some of our elected officials and charging sitting senators with sedition. I agree. It is long past due.

Time for a few heads to roll...figuratively speaking.

387 posted on 06/16/2005 10:19:31 PM PDT by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: libertarianben
Good morning.
"...I want to go to Malta. I hear it's nice."

LOL. Yes I've heard Malta is nice, but the Mediterranean is too small for me. If I have to flee I'll head back to Bora Bora.

Michael Frazier
388 posted on 06/17/2005 6:14:49 AM PDT by brazzaville (No surrender,no retreat. Well, maybe retreat's ok)
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To: pbrown
Time for a few heads to roll...figuratively speaking.

To prevent said heads from rolling about aimlessly, one ought to affix them on pikes...metaphorically speaking, of course.

389 posted on 06/17/2005 8:28:35 AM PDT by headsonpikes (Spirit of '76 bttt!)
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To: headsonpikes
metaphorically speaking, of course.

Of course. ;-)

390 posted on 06/17/2005 11:09:00 AM PDT by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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