Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Guantanamo inmates can be held 'in perpetuity'
yahoo.com ^ | June 15, 2005 | Reuters

Posted on 06/15/2005 3:35:00 PM PDT by AgThorn

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Republican senators called on Wednesday for the rights of foreign terrorism suspects at Guantanamo Bay prison to be legally defined even as the Bush administration said the inmates could be jailed there "in perpetuity."

ADVERTISEMENT

The prison, currently holding roughly 520 inmates, opened on the U.S. naval base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, in January 2002 in the aftermath of the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks on the United States. Many of the detainees have been held for more than three years, and only four have been charged.

At a U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee hearing, Republican Chairman Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania said Congress should help to define the legal rights of the inmates at the prison, which the panel's top Democrat called "an international embarrassment."

Delaware Democratic Sen. Joseph Biden (news, bio, voting record) asked Deputy Associate Attorney General J. Michael Wiggins whether the Justice Department had "defined when there is the end of conflict."

"No, sir," Wiggins responded.

"If there is no definition as to when the conflict ends, that means forever, forever, forever these folks get held at Guantanamo Bay," Biden said.

"It's our position that, legally, they can be held in perpetuity," Wiggins said.

Earlier, the committee's top Democrat, Sen. Patrick Leahy (news, bio, voting record) of Vermont, said the United States may face terrorism "as long as you and I live." He asked Brig. Gen. Thomas Hemingway, who oversees military trials of Guantanamo prisoners, if that means America can hold prisoners that long without charges.

"I think that we can hold them as long as the conflict endures," Hemingway responded.

"Guantanamo Bay is an international embarrassment to our nation, to our ideals, and it remains a festering threat to our security," Leahy said.

"Our great country, America, was once viewed as a leader in human rights and the rule of law, and justly so. Guantanamo has undermined our leadership, has damaged our credibility, has drained the world's goodwill for America at an alarming rate," Leahy added.

Critics have decried the indefinite detention of Guantanamo prisoners, whom the United States has denied rights accorded under the Geneva Conventions to prisoners of war. The prison, was called "the gulag of our times" in a recent Amnesty International report.

Hemingway said the military commissions created by the Pentagon were the appropriate forum for trying Guantanamo prisoners. Human and legal rights groups have said the rules created by the administration are heavily biased toward the prosecution. The trials have been held up amid legal fights.

Navy Rear Adm. James McGarrah called "rigorous and fair" the Pentagon's annual review of the status of Guantanamo prisoners -- a process that can lead to their release. In those proceedings, detainees are prohibited from having lawyers and cannot see all the government's evidence relating to them.

Lawyers representing Guantanamo prisoners criticized their treatment and the government's system for trying them.

"The (reviews) are a sham," said Joseph Margulies, one of the lawyers. "They mock this nation's commitment to due process, and it is past time for this mockery to end."

Republican Sen. Jeff Sessions (news, bio, voting record) of Alabama said: "This country is not systematically abusing prisoners. We have no policy to do so. And it's wrong to suggest that. And it puts our soldiers at risk who are in this battle because we sent them there."

Referring to detainees, Sessions added, "Some of them need to be executed."

Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham (news, bio, voting record) of South Carolina joined Specter and others who said Congress needed to get involved to better define the process at Guantanamo.

"I think it would be tremendously helpful if the Congress and the administration came together with some general statutory language to help define what's going on at Guantanamo Bay, to better define what an enemy combatant is, to make sure that due process is affordable," Graham said.

Specter noted that legislation he introduced in 2002 on legal rights of detainees had gone nowhere.

"It may be that it's too hot to handle for Congress, may be that it's too complex to handle for Congress, or it may be that Congress wants to sit back, as we customarily do, awaiting some action with the court no matter how long it takes," he said.

The U.S. Supreme Court ruled a year ago that Guantanamo prisoners had the right to seek their release in federal court. But decisions in the lower court have been contradictory, creating what Specter called a "crazy quilt" of rulings.


TOPICS: Breaking News; Cuba; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Government; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: 109th; detainees; enemycombatants; gitmo; noproblematall
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-150151-184 next last
I agree with the senator that says 'some of them should be executed' - let's do it and do it now. examples need to be set.
1 posted on 06/15/2005 3:35:00 PM PDT by AgThorn
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: AgThorn
RushLimbaugh.com

The Club G'itmo T-Shirt - My Mullah went to Club G'itmo and All I Got Was This Lousy T-Shirt


2 posted on 06/15/2005 3:38:00 PM PDT by InvisibleChurch (Look! Jimmy Carter! History's greatest monster!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AgThorn

Well, if we decide we can't hold them forever, and they need to be tried, it seems to me that the appropriate thing to do is to give them full due process rights and full-dress criminal trials under the law...of the place they committed their crimes. Which is to say, the republics of Afghanistan and of Iraq, both functioning democracies with legal systems, should be eventually given full custody of these prisoners along with their legal dossiers, to give them appropriate trials. That would, after all, be full due process as required under international law.


3 posted on 06/15/2005 3:38:45 PM PDT by Vicomte13 (Et alors?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AgThorn

We should hold them on a Navy ship about 500 miles from shore. We can't help it if they tried to escape by jumping overboard in the dark of night.


4 posted on 06/15/2005 3:39:07 PM PDT by Ron in Acreage (It's the borders stupid! (ours, not theirs!))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AgThorn

fine with me.

they probably eat better at gitmo than they do at home,

and they probably eat better than sheriff arpaio's inmates in phoenix.


5 posted on 06/15/2005 3:39:59 PM PDT by ken21
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AgThorn

This whole Guantanamo thing burns my buns a bit.

On the one side I agree with the left in that we need to do something ... but I do not agree with what nonsense they say, i.e. 'close the base', 'it's an embarassment', etc.

What moron wants to release these terrorists? Especially knowing what the results of the 'experiment' (I would think it should be called) of when the last '4' that were released, i.e. their showing up to fight our soldiers as soon as they could.

WHY don't we set up a tribunal and trial on each prisoner? It is idiotic to try to hold these creeps till the 'end of the war' or whatever, as there may never be an end of this war. Did we hold the spys we caught till the end of the 'cold war'? No, we tried, convicted and sentenced them. Why is this any different for this 'war on terror' that will probably last as long or longer as the cold war?

In fact, it will last longer precicely because we are NOT doing anything with the prisoners except giving them club med treatment. Who can say that the four that were released and were back fighting our soldiers didn't do it with the hope of getting a trip back to Guantanamo because of all the great accomodations!! ;-)

Enough!!! Set up the tribunal and start to convict, sentence and hopefully have some summary executions and make them public. This war on terror has to quit being so politically correct and start being serious!!! Off with their heads!!


6 posted on 06/15/2005 3:41:50 PM PDT by AgThorn (Bush is my president, but he needs to protect our borders. FIRST, before any talk of "Amnesty.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ken21

Brit Hume and the roundtable are discussing it now.


7 posted on 06/15/2005 3:42:03 PM PDT by Ron in Acreage (It's the borders stupid! (ours, not theirs!))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: AgThorn
Republican senators called on Wednesday for the rights of foreign terrorism suspects at Guantanamo Bay prison to be legally defined even as the Bush administration said the inmates could be jailed there "in perpetuity."

What counties do these "foreign terrorism suspects" originate from?

8 posted on 06/15/2005 3:42:43 PM PDT by michigander (The Constitution only guarantees the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Ron in Acreage

...and we should try to ensure that the ship cruises in the most shark-infested waters we can find.... dump some chum or whatever best tempts sharks to visit, and then 'allow' the terrorists to fall, a few at a time, into the deadly waters..... problem solved!


9 posted on 06/15/2005 3:43:55 PM PDT by Enchante (Kerry's mere nuisances: Marine Barracks '83, WTC '93, Khobar Towers, Embassy Bombs '98, USS Cole!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: michigander
What countries do these "foreign terrorism suspects" originate from?
10 posted on 06/15/2005 3:44:10 PM PDT by michigander (The Constitution only guarantees the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: AgThorn

Terrorist rights defined:

"None"


Next.


11 posted on 06/15/2005 3:44:43 PM PDT by thoughtomator (The U.S. Constitution poses no serious threat to our form of government)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AgThorn

This is an excellent idea. Shoot the rest too.


12 posted on 06/15/2005 3:44:43 PM PDT by Mad_Tom_Rackham (Delenda est Liberalism!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AgThorn
"Guantanamo Bay is an international embarrassment to our nation, to our ideals, and it remains a festering threat to our security," Leahy said.

Substitute the following words "Guantanamo Bay", "it", and replace with "Leahy".

13 posted on 06/15/2005 3:44:49 PM PDT by afnamvet (31st Fighter Wing Tuy Hoa AB RVN 68-69 "Return with Honor")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AgThorn

Military trial for the Gitmo illegal combattants? F*** yes.
Sooner rather than later. And televised executions for the guilty. They deserve no less.


14 posted on 06/15/2005 3:45:08 PM PDT by RKV ( He who has the guns, makes the rules.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: AgThorn

True-believing islamonazis don't fear death so much. They DO however, fear being incarcerated for the rest of their natural lives. In addition, they are more susceptible to interrogation when kept long enough. Gitmo is a smart move that proves the current Administration understands the mind of the enemy. The leftist politicians are once again proving themselves weak on defense and strong on criticizing America.


15 posted on 06/15/2005 3:45:23 PM PDT by darth
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Enchante

Good idea. Detainees? What detainees?


16 posted on 06/15/2005 3:46:56 PM PDT by Ron in Acreage (It's the borders stupid! (ours, not theirs!))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Ron in Acreage
We should hold them only until they stop disclosing information of value regarding this war against Islam and evil...then, being a civilized people, we should euthanize them with the same care afforded other rapid animals.

God forgive us, but there doesn't seem to be another end to this.

17 posted on 06/15/2005 3:47:00 PM PDT by Dark Skies (Islam is the wolf at the door. Shall we pet it...or kill it)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: reg45; Dark Wing; Dog Gone; NJ_gent

ping


18 posted on 06/15/2005 3:49:44 PM PDT by Thud
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AgThorn

I think they'd start smelling bad after 40-60 years.


19 posted on 06/15/2005 3:51:03 PM PDT by Paleo Conservative (Hey! Hey! Ho! Ho! Andrew Heyward's got to go!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Enchante; Ron in Acreage
...and we should try to ensure that the ship cruises in the most shark-infested waters we can find.... dump some chum or whatever best tempts sharks to visit, and then 'allow' the terrorists to fall, a few at a time, into the deadly waters..... problem solved!

And just to be on the safe side, do it in The Bermuda Triangle.

20 posted on 06/15/2005 3:52:08 PM PDT by kstewskis ("I don't know what I know, but I know that it's big..." .........Jerry Fletcher)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Ron in Acreage
We can't help it if they tried to escape by jumping overboard in the dark of night.

Yeah, those decks can be very slippery, can't they?

21 posted on 06/15/2005 3:53:50 PM PDT by softwarecreator (Facts are to liberals as holy water is to vampires)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Dark Skies

We should allow them to live in that same great state of euphoria that Terri Schiavo did. The autopsy said she didn't starve to death. She died of euphoria.


22 posted on 06/15/2005 3:54:01 PM PDT by Ron in Acreage (It's the borders stupid! (ours, not theirs!))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: AgThorn

Ha!, Biden and Leahy think Gitmo is bad for terrorists. I'm actually looking forward to the day we can incarcerate in perpetuity traitors who happen to be serving in either house of congress, or who are working in the MSM. I'm sure the day is coming. We can't win the war until it does.


23 posted on 06/15/2005 3:54:14 PM PDT by LibWhacker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AgThorn
Murderers traditionally in liberal states get life in prison in many states the prisons are a hell of a lot tougher than Gitmo...and not on a tropical beach.

Last I heard all these Moozelum terrorists were going to commit Holy Suicide?

Guess they really must be enjoying their stay among the infidels ..but then who wants to go back to snowy winters in A-Stan when you can winter in Gitmo and eyeball the pretty infidel female attendants

24 posted on 06/15/2005 3:55:15 PM PDT by joesnuffy (Taglines often reveal a lot about the inner person...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AgThorn
Maybe they should ask the former residents of the "Hanoi Hilton" about legal rights of detainees. Only they weren't detainees they were legitimate POWs under the GHC and they WERE tortured methodically.

Any Freeper Veteran here can tell the Sens that what we went through at the Draft induction center and in basic training was far-far worse than what the "detainees" at Club Cuba's Gourmand Gitmo Cafe are undergoing.
25 posted on 06/15/2005 3:56:45 PM PDT by SandRat (Duty, Honor, Country. What else needs to be said?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AgThorn

Agreed.


26 posted on 06/15/2005 3:57:00 PM PDT by TheDon (Euthanasia is an atrocity.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: joesnuffy

Fox showed them playing soccer today in beautiful tropical beaches of cuba. Here in south florida a view like that starts at about $2million.


27 posted on 06/15/2005 3:58:07 PM PDT by Ron in Acreage (It's the borders stupid! (ours, not theirs!))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: AgThorn
Bush administration said the inmates could be jailed there "in perpetuity."

Inmates.

Inmates? How about caged murderous beasts.

Oh, btw, the Geneva Accords don't apply either.


28 posted on 06/15/2005 3:59:42 PM PDT by glock rocks ( There are not enough liberals in Utah to bother to appease. - Warren Keuffel)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SandRat

Hey, if we can hold them in perpetuity, what would be the best way?

Freezing?
Freeze drying?
Cryogenics?
Maybe just as DNA?
Still I think the idea of their organs continuing to live
and save infidel lives as the best option.

It would be difficult for a muslim to contemplate being,
undead.


29 posted on 06/15/2005 4:01:11 PM PDT by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: Thud
It's my understanding that a very large number of these are known terrorists captured in Iraq, and a smaller number from Afghanistan.

We're probably closer to having a functional judicial system in Iraq than in Afghanistan, and the ideal solution would be to have those prisoners tried in Iraq and for them to administer the justice.

But I think we need the constitution in place there and a better judiciary in place with complete groundrules. That means keeping the status quo at Gitmo for now.

30 posted on 06/15/2005 4:02:19 PM PDT by Dog Gone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: AgThorn

If we had dealt with these folks the old fashioned way - on the field of battle - there wouldn't be a need for Gitmo in the first place.

But accepting the need for a facility for extracting intelligence from captures combatants who are not covered byt the Geneva COnventions, I'd suggest a top secret facility at an extremely remote location with virtually NO chance of accidental discovery, and there individuals could be treated with all the civility they deserve for as long or short a time as may be required.


31 posted on 06/15/2005 4:03:02 PM PDT by John Valentine
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: tet68

Come to think of it, ARE there any Islamic organ donors?


32 posted on 06/15/2005 4:03:47 PM PDT by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: softwarecreator
"Yeah, those decks can be very slippery, can't they?"

Especially when you've been chumming for sharks for a couple hours...

33 posted on 06/15/2005 4:03:49 PM PDT by Joe 6-pack
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Txsleuth; Howlin

Are you watching Hardball??


34 posted on 06/15/2005 4:04:14 PM PDT by Mo1
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Dark Skies; Dog Gone; Dark Wing
No. They have value by the manner of their passing, for interrogation, behavior modification, etc.

They may be summarily executed. While a trial is generally appropriate, it is not necessary for unlawful combatants whose status as such is obvious. As a practical matter a secret military tribunal holding a hearing which the prisoner(s) neither participate in or are aware of is probably appropriate. The issue determined at the hearing can and should be whether the prisoner(s) are more useful dead than alive. That would satisfy those portions of the Geneva Convention we signed, subject to exceptions noted by the Senate at the time, as opposed to the GC articles we didn't sign.

Then we should wait for an appropriate opportunity to execute them. It need not be a formal hanging. As an example of behavior modification, set it up so that one of them is provoked to do something he shouldn't while other prisoners are watching, such as throwing s*** or urine at a guard. Then shoot him on the spot, while the other prisoners watch. That would certainly have a deterrent effect on similar misconduct. They won't know that we've already decided to kill him.

Interrogation purposes - loudly tell the dude, in the presence of other prisoners, that this is his last chance to talk. Shoot him in front of the other prisoners when he doesn't talk. They won't know that we've already decided to kill him.

Or slit the throats of 5-6 of them, or whatever number is deemed effective, in front of another prisoner we're trying to impress. Some of these guys are really impressed by throat-slitting.

If one of them has a particular fear of drowning, or being eaten by sharks, take him on a boat ride with a bunch of these guys, tie them all up in chains with weights attached, do a phony random number means of determining who dies first but have your guy be last, or in the middle, demand that they talk and start throwing them overboard when they refuse. If your guy talks, he lives. If he doesn't, he walks the plank right there too.

Be cold-blooded about it. Once these guys are no longer useful alive, get some use from their executions. Use those to impress the ones you haven't decided to kill yet.

35 posted on 06/15/2005 4:04:57 PM PDT by Thud
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Joe 6-pack
Especially when you've been chumming for sharks for a couple hours...

Yeah, that's what I heard, but that could be just a silly rumor, which cannot be proven in court.  =)

36 posted on 06/15/2005 4:06:13 PM PDT by softwarecreator (Facts are to liberals as holy water is to vampires)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Mo1

What's going on??


37 posted on 06/15/2005 4:06:22 PM PDT by Howlin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: AgThorn
"Critics have decried the indefinite detention of Guantanamo prisoners, whom the United States has denied rights accorded under the Geneva Conventions to prisoners of war."

If they aren't captured wearing recognized military uniforms, fighting for a recognized beligerent nation, then the Geneva Convention gives them *no* rights. Ever.

They can be shot on sight as spies or sabotuers, legally. Anything less is American charity.

38 posted on 06/15/2005 4:08:07 PM PDT by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Mo1

Unfortunately, yes---

It didn't take long for ole Lindsay to become a Hardball favorite, did it...

Chrissy always gets a REpublican that will blame Bush for something...!


39 posted on 06/15/2005 4:08:18 PM PDT by Txsleuth (Mark Levin for Supreme Court Justice)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: AgThorn

Look, they want to be martyrs, we want them to be martyrs. What's the problem?


40 posted on 06/15/2005 4:08:30 PM PDT by Spok
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AgThorn
Sen. Patrick Leahy of Vermont, said the United States may face terrorism "as long as you and I live."

If only the solution were that easy.

-PJ

41 posted on 06/15/2005 4:09:20 PM PDT by Political Junkie Too (It's still not safe to vote Democrat.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AgThorn
Murderers traditionally in liberal states get life in prison in many states the prisons are a hell of a lot tougher than Gitmo...and not on a tropical beach.

Last I heard all these Moozelum terrorists were going to commit Holy Suicide?

Guess they really must be enjoying their stay among the infidels ..but then who wants to go back to snowy winters in A-Stan when you can winter in Gitmo and eyeball the pretty infidel female attendants

42 posted on 06/15/2005 4:09:22 PM PDT by joesnuffy (Taglines often reveal a lot about the inner person...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Howlin
Lindsey is on saying though we shouldn't shut down Gitmo .. we should reform it and prosecute the Terrorist

Schuster also had a snippy reporting also

43 posted on 06/15/2005 4:10:03 PM PDT by Mo1
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: AgThorn
With the RATS biggest reason for closing this facility being we are embarrassing ourselves in the eyes of the International community. [Translation Germany and France] Forgive me if I don't give a hoot what those jack asses think of us! Again another losing argument coming from the traitorous Dims!
44 posted on 06/15/2005 4:11:11 PM PDT by Bush gal in LA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Txsleuth
This lawyer Tom Wilner is claiming the 11 terrorists that he represents aren't bad people .. that they were arrested because they worked with charities .. and a few of them are just teachers

ROLLING EYES
45 posted on 06/15/2005 4:12:54 PM PDT by Mo1
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: Thud
I don't have any problem with that. None of these guys are there because they checked out the wrong book at a local library.

They chose not to play by the rules of war, so they're not entitled to the protections of the rules of war.

46 posted on 06/15/2005 4:14:09 PM PDT by Dog Gone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: AgThorn

Some Senators hate the Administration more than they hate terrorists.


47 posted on 06/15/2005 4:15:05 PM PDT by SmithL (Proud Submariner)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Comment #48 Removed by Moderator

To: Mo1

LOL. And likely employed an an Iraqi Baby Milk Factory.


49 posted on 06/15/2005 4:16:09 PM PDT by glock rocks ( There are not enough liberals in Utah to bother to appease. - Warren Keuffel)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

Comment #50 Removed by Moderator


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-150151-184 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson