Skip to comments.Natalee Holloway - Extended Thread 1
Posted on 06/16/2005 9:43:44 AM PDT by stlnative
FR Natalee Holloway Threads...
Natalee's body found... (false report)
Posted on 06/11/2005 1:05:50 PM CDT by kcvl
Full Aruba Island Maps
http://www.arubavacationhouse.com/images/arubamap.gif (BEST MAP)
http://www.caribbean-on-line.com/islands/ar/images/aruba2002.gif (good map but blurry)
Oranjestad Aruba Street Map
San Nicolas Street Map
Hotel Location Maps in the California Lighthouse Area
http://www.frommers.com/images/destinations/maps/jpg/176_resortareaaccomodations.jpg (NICE MAP)
Manchebo Beach Area Map
Aruba Beach Location Maps
http://www.arubatravelinfo.com/maps/arubabeachmap.jpg (nice detailed map)
Aruba Township Location Map
Aruba Diving Location Maps
Aruba Beach/Site Seeing Pictures
Aruba/Natalee - Blogs/Boards/Forums
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/ (Blog) - POPULAR
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/Discussion/ (Forum) - POPULAR
http://spaces.msn.com/members/amykappel/ (Blogger in Aruba)
http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/ (Blog) - POPULAR
Aruba White/Yellow Pages
Suspect's Personal Pages or Picture Album Locations
FR Quick Ping List (copy & paste) - active posters to the thread
Andy'smom;bonfire;brigette;kcvl;maggiefluffs;No Surrender No Retreat;Palladin;Rippersnapper;TexKat;theophilusscribe
I was there earlier, but haven't check it out in detail.
I'll look again.
You are a born detective.
He likes to sail on his yacht? Does he have a yacht?
Wouldn't the grades still have to be there? Wonder what grade his mother teaches?
I'm not sure what is going on with the lawyers. Are they gathering up Aruba's 'dream team'?
the judge that ruled and interrogated the 3 today is a judge form Curacua....he is here and was asked to come because he is more experianced in these cases, he will return to curacao tonight and in the next hearing (in 8 days, if nothign happens before that) then a local judge will come back to habdle the case......in curaco the crime rate is much higher thatn ours, so they are more accostumed to treating crime related cases
Second link also show "Joran v.d.Sloot, accepted to St. Leo's College and College of the Atlantic, Florida".
His name is right under Max Arends.
All the negative publicity surrounding the disappearance of Natalee, and the involvement of (presumably) two ISA seniors, cannot be good for the International School of Aruba.
LOL. On Steve's page he says he likes sailing on his YACHT!
LOL, yes the Tatoo boat that he was employed on probably!!
As far as having the grades--yes, he would still have to have decent grades, but frequently when there are more students the challenge is greater. It appears JVDS has been a big fish in a very small pond.
Plus I see that Joran's mother is a teacher (an art teacher). Does she teach at the International School of Aruba.
I also saw a teacher or a school employee with the last name of Croes in a different article. She could be or could not be related to the Croes person of interest.
I think he's referring to to his Gilligan job on the tour boat.
In an interview this week Joran's mother was asked what Joran's strong subjects are in school. She replied sports, tennis , soccer, he likes to stay busy. Go figure.
I heard he was a DJ on that boat. On his page it also says he is Divorced/separated. Has anyone thought of speaking with his ex-wife, Hmmmmmmm?
Oh me oh my! The Aruba Dream team. I am having a horrible de ja vous.
Now that he has surfaced Mrs. Holloway Twitty will probably get around to talking with the ex-Mrs. Croes if she is still on the island.
What a doofus.
My daughter once went out with a guy who kept talking about his collection of antique cars. She was so wowed until she saw them. He had a bunch of clunkers on cinder blocks, like real wrecks. American wrecks at that.
Smeone on a talk show said 20% of Arubans have the surname Croese. That it's like Smith and Jones in the U.S.
Steve Croes looks a little darker than the Justice Department Croeses.
Beneath his photo on tickle is (I presume) his sister. She says ethnically they are Aruban, Curacoan, and some native tribe.(Trini??)
Yes, Joran's mom teaches art at ISA.
Also, there was a female govt. person interviewed on one of the cable shows tonight--also named Croese.
But she didn't resemble the suspect at all.
From Aruba - It's been suggested that recently arrested Steven Gregory Croes was in Carlos and Charlies the night of Natalee Holloway's disappearance, and some think he joined the group in the car later that night.
As yet, I have no confirmation of that report.
The AP is saying that the ruling as to whether or not Paul Van der Sloot can see his son has been made, but not yet disclosed. I was told by a reader that he would not be allowed to visit, however, another reader informs me that Fox is reporting he will be able to visit with Joran. Likely we'll have to see if other media outlets confirm the Fox report, or refute it.
I've had my head down looking into some interesting things from different readers and took the initial reader report as a simple report, as I did know that court was over and figured the ruling on visitation was simply released.
Additionally, from first link above -
the court barred van der Sloot's lawyer, Antonio Carlo, from visiting the teen, effectively removing him from the case, said Attorney General spokeswoman Mariaine Croes.
The court granted prosecutors' request to remove Carlo because he had visited one of two former security guards who had been detained and released in the case, authorities said.
Croes said the Dutch teenager has a team of lawyers, so Carlo's removal will not leave van der Sloot without representation. The spokeswoman is not related to Steve Croes.
American wrecks ... girl, you crack me up.
How dare he try to investigate and get to the bottom of this! /sarcasm
Croes said the Dutch teenager has a team of lawyers, so Carlo's removal will not leave van der Sloot without representation. The spokeswoman is not related to Steve Croes.
Uh huh, lawyering up big time. Dream team Aruban style.
She was hoping for Roll's.
KodiaK.....I envy you....
The father will no longer be able to see Joran after today.
Are you sure this is what was ruled? The way I understood it (from what I read last night/ earlier today), the dad was trying to get in to see him & the judge was supposed to rule on that.
He came in last night and gave a statement, then went home. This morning at 6 AM he was arrested. The Aruban gov. put out an official statement, which is the strongest indication we have about his MAJOR involvement.
As per FOX and MSNBC: The father, PeterVanderSloot, was allowed to visit with his son Joran ONCE only. That visit has already taken place. The judge then ruled that the father cannot visit the son again. When pressed for a reason, the gov spokesperson on TV said she did not know the reason.
It is not the law that is so different - it is the inept approach by the police and detectives, et al involved. They seem to be busier protecting themselves, friends, prominent people, etc. and worrying about their country's "image." All the while the whereabouts or condition of Natalee seems to have slipped to secondary importance.
Also, I wonder, if they think there is a possibility that this will lead to a big crack in some criminal ring so they have focused on the larger opportunity, rather than just on locating Natalee. Her parents must be going crazy. It just seems to be taking way too long. Something else must be going on inside that police station.
Thanks, Palladin. That's what I thought.
G'night all. Hope this case is solved by the A.M.
Deepak Kalpoe, 21, one of four suspects in connection with the disappearance of Alabama high school graduate Natalee Holloway on May 30, is transferred from court to the police station in the capital city of Oranjestad, Aruba, Friday, June 17, 2005. (AP Photo/Vigilante,Hubert Welvaart)
Thanks for the pings.. I have not had a chance to read anything today. Tomorrow I have 32+ guests at my home and some will be here through Sunday. I did my food shopping, most of cooking and frood prep and did my final cleaning today. I am POOPED!
I think I am at least 600 posts behind.
I read some of the last part of thread. I am glad that they will keep Joran's father away from him. I loved that a$$ chewing O'Reilly gave that Aruba guy today.
They need to throw the Sloot's off the island when this is all over. Make Mommy & Daddy fly in to see Joran in prison. I am so angry at the way this kid was allowed to run free while he was a minor. I find it hard to believe that his grades are that great, with momma being a teacher at the school he attended and all the partying this kid has been doing.
Well I think that is it for me tonight. I am going to read some more and then crash.
Have a great weekend all!
One of the SM members found that what is assumed to be an older man (Marten) that posted the following message on one of the Joran friends Tickle site
My modelling baby Stephanie .... all gorgeous "boobs and ass" ... When she eventually grows-up, she will be an important export commodity for Aruba. Most likely destination? Thailand of course. A certain well-known Dutchman has shown serious interest. Marten a Dutchman living life to the full in Thailand.
Also it may be that C&C is part of a bigger operation:
From SM: the bar they were headed to, Mumbo Jumbo's,..is a place where call girls hang out,..Carlos and Charlies is known from Texas to South America as a hot spot,..they are in all the college town Spring Break Tourist traps,.the first place where the cruise ships drop the tourists, Exstace is a concern on the island, the locals know where to get it,..in the Hot Zone,..Carlos N Charlies specializes in a wild party atmosphere,..lost of local men know what happens there and after the bar gets out, I never said Carlos N Charlies was a brothel,.it's in the HOT ZONE< as known by locals,..they KNOw they can count on tourist action after these single unchaperoned women are leaving drunk..I'm trying to clue you in,..the LE knows this...this is a bigger story than one missing woman,...In a few days of this story breaking people were outraged that anyone would even attempt to point a finger at lax police involvement,..but there is a bigger story,.there is more than drinking going on,..and yes, in CANCUN they have the same problem,..women getting EXSTACY in a drink FROM the bartenders,..
maggie - I am not getting your pings. My name is spelled "brigette" (2 "e's" and only one "i") and you have been pinging brigitte (there must be another person on FR with my name but spelled differently, otherwise FR would have told there was no brigitte.
You have a good weekend also brigette.
THE NETHERLANDS (TIER 1) The Netherlands is primarily a destination and transit country for trafficking of women and girls for the purpose of sexual exploitation; trafficking for labor exploitation exists to a lesser extent. Most victims are trafficked from Central and Eastern Europe, with some victims from Nigeria and Brazil. Reportedly, a significant percentage of the 25,000 individuals engaged in prostitution reportedly are trafficking victims. Internal trafficking of young, mostly foreign girls by Moroccan and Turkish pimps into sexual exploitation also occurs. The Netherlands Antilles, where the Netherlands exercises responsibility over visa issuance according to guidelines issued by the Netherlands Antilles, became more of a concern as a transit and destination for illegal migrants, some of whom may have been trafficked.
The Government of the Netherlands fully complies with the minimum standards for the elimination of trafficking. Although the government did not provide final 2004 data on investigations, prosecutions, convictions and sentences, the Secretary of State has determined that it has made a good faith effort to do so. In 2004, the government adopted an anti-trafficking national action plan, expanded its outreach to potential trafficking victims and increased overall funding for protection and prevention. In January 2005, the government supplemented its existing trafficking law and incorporated forced labor into its definition of exploitation, bringing penalties in line with international standards. International scrutiny continued to focus on the legalized commercial sex industry in the Netherlands. Police reported a decrease in trafficking in the legalized sector, though comprehensive data on the number of trafficking victims is unavailable because the government did not carry out a recommended systematic screening of foreign prostitutes in the redlight district. While the government initiated several information and awareness raising campaigns, additional targeted and highly visible campaigns aimed directly at customers and women in the redlight zones should be made to increase effectiveness in combating the overall problem.
Prosecution The Netherlands, in 2004, expanded the legal definition of trafficking to include forced labor and increased the maximum penalty for traffickers from six to eight years. Sentences of up to 12 years can apply in cases of serious physical injury. Average sentences increased by almost 3 months in 2003. Preliminary enforcement statistics reflected an increase in cases investigated for the first nine months of 2004. During this period, Dutch police initiated 604 investigations and referred 87 cases for prosecution. In 2003, the courts successfully prosecuted 127 trafficking-related crimes. The police incorporated anti-trafficking curriculum into regular police training; and a similar model was developed for public prosecutors and judges. Information on the modus operandi of traffickers was distributed to all regional police forces. There were no reports of official corruption or trafficking-related complicity
The government reported that strict controls and licensing requirements for brothels were employed as a means of combating trafficking. Under the Public Information Integrity Act, the local government of The Hague denied licenses to five sex firms and withdrew two existing licenses due to indications of involvement in illegal activities, including trafficking. Police conducted unannounced bi-monthly visits to brothels in Amsterdam to check for illegal conduct.
Protection In 2004, the Dutch government increased its funding for shelters assisting trafficking victims by 1.2 million Euros. Additionally, regional governments funded shelters, victim protection programs and local education programs. The Dutch Foundation Against Trafficking in Persons (STV), the national reporting center for registration and assistance for trafficking victims, registered 405 trafficking victims in 2004, an increase from 267 the previous year. Moreover, 185 trafficking victims received B-9 residency permits, an increase from 84 in 2003. In April 2005, the government enacted regulations to allow B-9 permit holders the right to work and eligibility for benefits and education assistance. Victims not wishing to apply for the B-9 were informed of other asylum options, including the option of accepting the B-9's three-month reflection period. In 2004, the government donated 28.5 million Euros to UNICEF to protect child victims of trafficking.
Prevention In 2004, the Dutch government initiated targeted information campaigns to prevent trafficking and raise awareness among government officials and the public. These included: an information campaign on the anonymous crime reporting hotline; a B-9 residency permit awareness campaign; and new public awareness campaigns on youth prostitution targeting at-risk youth in schools and among asylum seekers. During the reporting period, the Health Ministry subsidized a "stepping out" program aimed at re-socialization and psychosocial support. Information brochures in five languages on development of such assistance packages were distributed to local governments and distributed to 2,000 vulnerable women in prostitution across the Netherlands. Under this program, the government also funded Dutch language lessons for women formerly in prostitution and conducted outreach to 800 foreign national prostitutes to escape dependency on pimps and traffickers. In addition, the government funded outreach through an NGO in 2004 to 22,000 women in prostitution, potential trafficking victims and clients in the Amsterdam redlight district. The government, in January 2005, established a center aimed at preventing involvement of youth in prostitution to consolidate all prevention, information and support activities. The government continued to focus efforts on international prevention and outreach to source countries, and provided significant funding for a number of programs in those counties. The government has provided funding since 2003 to prevent the international sexual exploitation of children and international child forced labor.
THE DUTCH CARIBBEAN AUTONOMOUS REGIONS Anecdotal reporting suggests that the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba, autonomous regions within the Kingdom of the Netherlands, are transit and destination regions for trafficking of women and children for sexual exploitation. Curacao and Saint Maarten, in particular, reportedly are destination islands for women trafficked for the sex trade from Columbia, the Dominican Republic and Haiti. In Curacao (and neighboring Aruba) observers estimate that 500 foreign women are in prostitution, some of whom may have been trafficked. There are also reports of children being trafficked for sexual exploitation as underage prostitutes, particularly from the Dominican Republic. In September 2004, Curacao prosecuted and sentenced two traffickers who trafficked children from Suriname to Curacao using fraudulent documents. Visas for Aruba and the Netherlands Antilles are issued by Dutch Embassies following review by Aruban or Netherlands Antilles' authorities. Visa controls were reportedly tightened in 2004. Also in 2004, the Dutch government provided 100,000 Euros to an IOM program focused on awareness raising, information dissemination and regional cooperation targeting officials from the Dutch Caribbean.
It seems like either these boys "innocently" got caught up in something very bad; or not so innocently were already associated. Sometimes unknowing punk types, trying to play the "cool" role fall into a pit of vipers beyond what they understand. Maybe this happened in this case?
If Natalee was sold to or taken by some trafficking operation, she might have been safe, at least at first. I am worried now with all the world hearing about this, she might not be so lucky. She would know too much. This is another "get down on your knees and pray for her" situation. Oh how I hate the evil in this world. And I hate the way it is tolerated even more!
So is the kid in cuffs just a shrimp or is the guy behind him fairly huge ??
What I fear is that the drug/trafficking ring involves some of the 'higher-ups' in the Aruban government. If that's the case, this will never be solved. And even worse, if NH is still alive, they'll quietly "get rid of the evidence" because she knows too much and they can't just let her go now.
That's a good question. For comparison purposes, we know that JVDS is 6' 5" (if he's not exaggerating here).
In that photo where he's next to the 2 brothers, I had thought at least one of the brothers was sitting down because there was such a discrepancy in height. Maybe not!
Thanks for the correction.
Enjoy your weekend with your guests.
I am up early so I can some more things done before my guests start getting here at 1pm (about 5 hours from now).
I am in wake up mode right now, that is why I am on here.
My hubby is from a large family, his parents had 9 children and both his parents are still alive (they are in their middle 70's now). Mainly the people who are coming today are all family.
I think the father's name is Paul, not Peter.
I slept in this morning and still waking up with my first cup of coffee.
I've lots to read to get caught up.
I got up early also, because I could not sleep with the thoughts about Natalee on my mind. I hoped to read on FR that she had been found. Unfortunately, this case keeps getting darker and darker.
IMHO If any American travels to Aruba they must be crazy. Especially since their obvious disdain for us was revealed by that govt. official who stated, (in reference to a question about waiting so long to get evidence from van der Sloot's house) "you just can't rush in like a cowboy!" That was a direct "slap" at Americans and meant to be derrogatory. May their economy go down the tubes now.
I was against the boycott idea when I first heard it. Now, I could care a rat's arse about that country. If good people are there, as I am sure there are, they should be enraged that those words were spoken. And they should be complaining that their govt. and police are so inept in dealing with this. It appears the veil of a "garden of Eden" vacation spot has been wrent and we are seeing what Arubans really think about us, and what is going on in their country.
Max's tickle profile and pictures, (Max is a JVDS schoolmate who was recently questioned and released.)