USS Arizona Deterioration Said Unavoidable

AP via Yahoo ^ | June 16 | AP

[Vesuvian]

HONOLULU - A team of divers is collecting information that will help experts determine how fast the sunken USS Arizona is deteriorating.

The battleship sank on Dec. 7, 1941, during the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, which drew the United States into World War II. The remains of more than 1,100 crewmen remain entombed in the sunken wreckage, which is spanned by the USS Arizona Memorial.

"Collapse in inevitable but by all indications, it is not imminent. It could be decades," said Matthew Russell, an underwater archaeologist who is heading the six-member team.

Preliminary data indicates the ship suffered more damage when it was bombed than was previously thought. But despite the damage, the wreckage is holding up well and corrosion is slower than expected, he said.

The team's findings will give officials of the National Park Service, which operates the memorial, the information they need "to make decisions about when and if to intervene in the Arizona's natural deterioration," Russell said.

The surprise attack on Pearl Harbor and other military bases on Oahu lasted two hours. Twenty-one ships were sunk or heavily damaged, and 320 aircraft were damaged or destroyed. In all, 2,390 people were killed and 1,178 wounded.

Russell said the fact the battleship is a war grave is never far from the divers' minds.

"The galley area is in the midship. There are bowls, a cooking pot. The leather sole of someone's boot. It isn't easy to look at those things," Russell said. "It's not like any other place on earth. It's sacred."

[Hank Rearden]

I can see the "limited government" Republican Party proposing $30 Billion in spending to try to preserve this wreck.

Steel rusts. RIP.

[kezekiel]

EARTHQUAKE IN SO CAL! Whew, that was exciting.

[M Kehoe]

I can see the "limited government" Republican Party proposing $30 Billion in spending to try to preserve this wreck.

Did somebody pi$$ in your Wheaties today?

;^)

5.56mm

[Logic n' Reason]

The surprise attack on Pearl Harbor and other military bases on Oahu lasted two hours. Twenty-one ships were sunk or heavily damaged, and 320 aircraft were damaged or destroyed. In all, 2,390 people were killed and 1,178 wounded.

Surprise attack against a military target by uniformed troops of an enemy nation.

Hard to believe that more people were killed in the WTC than at Pearl....and mostly, if not all non-military.

A short quote from Mr. Ralph Peters, "This is a war. The enemy, whether a hijacker or a financier, violates the laws of war by his refusal to wear a uniform and by purposely targeting civilians. He is by definition a war criminal. On our soil, he is either a spy or a saboteur, and not entitled to the protections of the U.S. Constitution. Those who abet terrorists must grow afraid to turn out the lights to go to sleep."

And, " Whenever legal conditions permit, kill terrorists on the spot (do not give them a chance to surrender, if you can help it). Contrary to academic wisdom, the surest way to make a martyr of a terrorist is to capture, convict and imprison him, leading to endless efforts by sympathizers to stage kidnappings, hijacking and other events intended to liberate the imprisoned terrorist(s). This is war, not law enforcement."

'Nuff said.

[Vesuvian]

Launch Pad 34, site of the Apollo 1 fire has been marked "Abandon in Place."

May they all Rest in Peace

[Vesuvian]

Now, now, that makes sense. Can't have any of that, it might spread.

[Tallguy]

When the ship's hull is finally breached in a critical area by corrosion, Pearl Harbor is going to have one heckuva oil slick.

The oil bunkers on the USS Arizona were full. The Battleships had just returned from maneuvers & were getting ready to put to sea again when the attack fell on them.

Sunken ships have been pumped out before. It's risky to do (because you could actually make things worse), but I think that it is probably worth it. Doing it under controlled circumstances rather than waiting for a crisis (leak) makes sense to me.

[Hank Rearden]

Good quotes there. Unfortunately, our "national defense" is fixated on Koran-peeing and civil rights for terrorists.

If it were up to me, this would be the protocol for terrorists:

- After a refreshing 2-hour night's sleep, a 4:30am kick to the balls wakeup call would be administered.

- For the next 22 hours, squeeze any information possible out of the bastard by any means necessary.

- Retire terrorist Moo for a refreshing 2-hour night's rest.

- Rinse 'n Repeat.

- If no more information is available to be squeezed, toss 'em to the sharks.

- NEXT!

[Hank Rearden]

When the ship's hull is finally breached in a critical area by corrosion, Pearl Harbor is going to have one heckuva oil slick.

Yes, I've heard that too.

[Logic n' Reason]

- After a refreshing 2-hour night's sleep, a 4:30am kick to the balls wakeup call would be administered. - For the next 22 hours, squeeze any information possible out of the bastard by any means necessary. - Retire terrorist Moo for a refreshing 2-hour night's rest. - Rinse 'n Repeat. - If no more information is available to be squeezed, toss 'em to the sharks. - NEXT!

Nice...and agree....but I'll take this approach if I have the chance: "Spare and protect innocent civilians whenever possible, but: do not let the prospect of civilian casualties interfere with ultimate mission accomplishment. This is a fight to protect the American people, and we must do so whatever the cost, or the price in American lives may be devastating. In a choice between them and us, the choice is always us."

Plus this: "Do not allow the terrorists to hide behind religion. Apocalyptic terrorists cite religion as a justification for attacking us; in turn, we cannot let them hide behind religious holidays, taboos, strictures or even sacred terrain. We must establish a consistent reputation for relentless pursuit and destruction of those who kill our citizens. Until we do this, our hesitation will continue to strengthen our enemy's ranks and his resolve."

'Nuff said.

[Warhammer]

Can you source the Peters quote? You've whetted my appetite for more.

[Eric in the Ozarks]

The Arizona was a Number 6 oil burner so doing a "pump off" might not be as easy as, for example, crude oil or diesel. When the oil was put aboard, Navy specs called for a minimum 10 API Gravity (just lighter than water). This spec is still used in Great Lakes shipping and many salt water vessels.
60 years of attack by ocean going organisms could have reduced this block of oil to a relatively hard "chunk" of residual oil, like asphalt. The only way to remove it would be via a heated sparge, which would liquify the oil as it was drawn up into a barge overhead.

[reagan_fanatic]

Pearl Harbor is going to have one heckuva oil slick

One wonders just how much of that oil is left after the explosion and resultant fire after the attack.

[JustRight]

Rainbow looking blobs of oil continually surface under the memorial.

[Robe]

According to the book "Descent into Darkness" ( I don't remember the author ) the writer was a salvage diver that was whisked from Bayonne NJ to Pearl in48 hours.(Quite a trick in those days )
The Arizona was pumped of all the accessible fuel oil in the days after the attack, what remains is a few thousand pounds that has consistently dribbled to the surface since the mid fifties..
Great book BTW

[Eric in the Ozarks]

The Navy probably knows. I understand the Arizona went down pretty fast, which is why so many sailors were trapped aboard. The Japanese bomb hits were into the forward powder magazine which caused the explosion and wrecked the entire front of the ship.
The Arizona could carry 1,389,000 gallons of oil when fully loaded

[T.Smith]

I read that book. Some of his descriptions of body recovery made my skin crawl. The story about having a spider in his diving helmet was hilarious. I think I would have peed in my suit.

[IronJack]

I don't know that the physical remains of the ship are what is important. It's the outrage and the courage demonstrated by the respective sides that day, and the horrors unleashed by the subsequent retaliation that matter. In effect, the Arizona is simply an artifact. It's the memory that's important.

And in any case, it's a lost cause. Nature will reclaim her own.

[puppypusher]

I think the Republican party needs to reexamine its priorities and spending 30 billion dollars, If that is the true amount is a losing proposition for the taxpayer as well as the families of the Sailors who served on the USS Arizona.

They need to realize that no matter what they will do,Steel rust and the ship will return to the sea.

They should use the money to take care of the veterans who have served and are living to day. Veterans should not have to scrounge for shelter, health care or anything. They have served this country,Now its time for the country to return the favor.

[Robe]

Agree,When he describes the "tinkleing" on his helmet to be the skinless fingertips of bodies that floated to the top (bottom) of the compartment was chilling

[Lx]

This is one powerful memorial. When you see actual survivors talking during the film before you go to the memorial, there isn't a dry eye in the house.
The memorial itself is incredibly moving. What bothered me were the Japanese running around and generaly wooping it up in such a sacred place.
Another thing is that Elvis was responsible for raising the funds for it.
If you haven't been to it, go. The survivors are dying off at an alarming pace.

[Tallguy]

One wonders just how much of that oil is left after the explosion and resultant fire after the attack.

The Navy knows how much fuel was on the Arizona and the rate of leakage (so far) has been minimal. So the estimates are that her bunkers are still essentially full.

There was a program (an episode of "Deepsea Detectives") on the History Channel about mysterious oil slicks near San Francisco. The oil slicks seemed to coincide with seasonal storm, so the guessing was that the culprit was a shipwreck. Turned out to be a 1950's freighter loaded with war munitions destined for Korea that went down off the coast. It was a major project, but a marine engineering outfit got her pumped out (for the most part). Some oil remains, but if there is a spill now, it won't be nearly as bad as if the entire fuel load was released.

Bear in mind that this was done by commercial saturation divers operating from a platform in the open ocean. The Arizona doesn't present as many problems excepting her close proximity.

[warsaw44]

"What bothered me were the Japanese running around and generaly wooping it up in such a sacred place. "

Are you serious?? Did anyone say anything to them. That is shocking.

[Tallguy]

I'll have to look for that book. Thanks for the tip!

[Lx]

What would I say, Kaneechywah? I pointed it out to the honor guard and he said it was typical.

[warsaw44]

I wouldnt be able to keep quite. I'd confront the little bastards. That is a damned disgrace. Go ahead - arrest me. I dont give a damn. If they didnt change their tone they'd be going home with a broken face.

[orionblamblam]

My father (VN vet) visitted the AZ memorial in '77, said the same thing was going on. However, there was apparently also a VFW contingent (WWII vets... in their early 50's I'd imagine) visiting the memorial, and - so goes my fathers tale - the VFW'ers didn't put up with that, and tossed a number of the offenders into the drink.

[warsaw44]

God Bless Them! I cant even imagine the rage those Vets felt seeing such a display. I've known a lot of WWII Vets. The ones who served in the European Theater never spoke about hatred towards the Germans and Italians ( although more than a few complained about the French ). The Pacific Theater Vets I knew hated the Japanese even well after the War was over. One of the gents I knew who lived in my building would always give Japanese tourists the wrong directions when they asked for them.
I'd never even heard about such horrible behavior happening at the Pearl memorial. Really a damned shame.

[Kirkwood]

Yeah, I was reduced to tears by the film. Very powerful. I am so glad I took the time to stop off in Oahu for a day to pay my respects. One row behind me a Japanese guy fell asleep and was snoring. That pissed me off, but I kept my mouth closed... maybe we can blame it on jet lag rather than rudeness. I was equally pissed off by Americans who didn't have the sense to take off their caps when they entered the memorial. Most Of the Japanese I saw there were elderly and respectful, but I think they were also in denial. Many avoided looking at the artifacts. You don't need to read English to know what those artifacts are telling you.

An American of Japanese descent who was a child and lived near the harbor spoke about what she experienced that day and how ashamed she was for being Japanese. Now she spends every working day to make sure that visitors know the truth and how Americans sacrificed their lives and saved the world. She spoke simply yet powerfully about her fears of Americans being attacked at any time or any hour and that we are not emotionally ready for another 9-11 or Pearl Harbor.

Shortly after my tour, there was a funeral for a USS Arizona survivor who had his remains interred with his buddies on board the ship. I watched the service from the bow of the USS Missouri. Chills went up my spine with the 21 gun salute echoing across the peaceful harbor and then taps were played. It sounded so distant as if the musical notes were coming all the way from 1941.

[Eric in the Ozarks]

$30 million ?
I would drive pilings around the wreck, evacuate the water, then pour a cement sarcophagus around the metal, allowing the Arizona to cave and slump in, but never move from her mooring. I could do it for one tenth of $30 million.

[upchuck]

Russell said the fact the battleship is a war grave is never far from the divers' minds.

"The galley area is in the midship. There are bowls, a cooking pot. The leather sole of someone's boot. It isn't easy to look at those things," Russell said. "It's not like any other place on earth. It's sacred."

Kinda like Ground Zero. Too bad that's turned into a political football. Generally, I'm not too pleased with the way our country has been going. There's no pride anymore.

[Eric in the Ozarks]

Would the Navy confirm that the Arizona's fuel was pumped off after the attack ?