Posted on 06/17/2005 10:31:14 AM PDT by Crackingham
In the decade since I left the Senate, American politics has been characterized by two phenomena: the increased activism of the Christian right, especially in the Republican Party, and the collapse of bipartisan collegiality. I do not think it is a stretch to suggest a relationship between the two. To assert that I am on God's side and you are not, that I know God's will and you do not, and that I will use the power of government to advance my understanding of God's kingdom is certain to produce hostility.
By contrast, moderate Christians see ourselves, literally, as moderators. Far from claiming to possess God's truth, we claim only to be imperfect seekers of the truth. We reject the notion that religion should present a series of wedge issues useful at election time for energizing a political base. We believe it is God's work to practice humility, to wear tolerance on our sleeves, to reach out to those with whom we disagree, and to overcome the meanness we see in today's politics.
For us, religion should be inclusive, and it should seek to bridge the differences that separate people. We do not exclude from worship those whose opinions differ from ours. Following a Lord who sat at the table with tax collectors and sinners, we welcome to the Lord's table all who would come. Following a Lord who cited love of God and love of neighbor as encompassing all the commandments, we reject a political agenda that displaces that love. Christians who hold these convictions ought to add their clear voice of moderation to the debate on religion in politics.
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
I wonder if his bishop's boyfriend asked him to write this piece.
No, John....that's "ambassadors"......read your bible.
Moderate = Liberal for those at home.
Danforth = "You don't even have to believe in Jesus to be a Christian in our definition."
Nothing more really needs to be said.....
You can stop seeking and actual read, accept and follow the Bible if you want the truth. You could posses the truth, but you chose not to.
Didn't Danforth write a similar piece last month complaining about the social conscience of conservative Christians? I guess he realized nobody paid any attention to his first rant, so he's now repeating it, louder.
What is a moderate Christian?
Well, John Danforth is an ordained Episcopal priest.
Ya got that right AppyPappy. If a Christian dares to quote scripture, in its intended form, to these moderates, you make them mad and you are a right winger or an extremest or judgemental----fill in the blanks . AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.
Sure, Jesus sat at the table with tax collectors and sinners, but he didn't say "Go ahead, keep doing what you feel like." but more like "forget your evil ways and follow me."
That's what pseudo Christians have trouble understanding.
Sure, Jesus sat at the table with tax collectors and sinners, but he didn't say "Go ahead, keep doing what you feel like." but more like "forget your evil ways and follow me."
That's what pseudo Christians have trouble understanding.
They're called Laodiceans.
A person who doesn't believe in the Virgin Birth, Jesus, the resurrection and the truth in the Bible. They just go to church and listen to a gospel according to the NYT! I've met a few and they dirty the name of Christianity.
That was my guess.
Oh. Nuff said!
Two questions.
Do Christians always know what God's will is in a particular situation? No.
Should Christians seek to do God's will and to do what is good and right? Yes.
To introduce Christian principles into political matters requires not moderation, but wisdom, discernment, and God's enabling grace.
Surely leftists also seek to do what is right and good. It's just that they rely on ideology and desire rather than doctrine and principle to derive their concepts of what is right and good.
To me, human ideology is a less certain foundation on which to base political decisions than faith, traditional morality, and the lessons of history.
My favorite response from liberals when confronted with the Truth is always "The Bible says a lot of other things too". Kinda hard to argue with that kind of Mensa-like brilliance.
bi-partisan work in the govenment is: Get your wallets out, we are going to tax you.
The divide came when Americans said stop the taxes and they actually had to work for a living. They just cannot stand that.
"We reject the notion that religion should present a series of wedge issues useful at election time for energizing a political base."
That's the standard leftist line... what does he have to back that up? Gay Marriage wasn't a wedge issue we chose... secularist judges chose that fight. I think this is all just code for saying "Religious people should just surrender".
So....why listen to him????
Imagine a mechanic saying: "Far from claiming to know anything about cars, I claim only to seek to know about them amidst my mechanical mistakes."
He's not the guy who's gonna be chosen to rebuild my engine.
"Sure, Jesus sat at the table with tax collectors and sinners, but he didn't say "Go ahead, keep doing what you feel like." but more like "forget your evil ways and follow me."
That's what pseudo Christians have trouble understanding."
Many pseudo Christians would probably follow Jesus, but not the 1-day/week hypcrites that claim to be 'saved', 'born again' and spend in inordinate amount of time trying to tell people how to live their lives whilst failing to 'practice what they preach'.
Ouch for Brownback and Santorum. The truth hurts. Unfortunately, a sizable percentage of FR posters think just this way. Reagan never thought or operated like this, and that was the one of the keys to his success.
Well spoken, my friend. Thank you!
We reject the notion that religion should present a series of wedge issues useful at election time for energizing a political base.
He should take that up with God, for it is God who gave those "wedge issues", which do indeed divide light from darkness. Such "wedge issues" like the genocide of abortion, or the perversity of homosexuality, pedophilia, etc, that the "moderates" claim are "normal". It is God who says those who practice those things will not inherit the Kingdom of God. It was Jesus who said that if you are not for Him then you are against Him. It was Jesus who said, "Do you think I came to bring peace? No, I tell you I came with a sword, to divide father from son, daughter from mother, brother from brother."
We believe it is God's work to practice humility, to wear tolerance on our sleeves, to reach out to those with whom we disagree, and to overcome the meanness we see in today's politics.
This man doesn't know what tolerance means. When a religious liberal such as this fellow speaks of "tolerance", what he really means is acceptance and legitimizing behaviors as being normal and right. I can only genuinely tolerate those things which I disagree with. "Meanness" to him is to disagree with and define such abberant behaviors as abnormal and wrong. One can "reach out", while not agreeing with behaviors that are destructive and wrong, by lovingly informing them of the truth that those behaviors are destructive and that their only hope is genuine faith in Christ.
For us, religion should be inclusive, and it should seek to bridge the differences that separate people.
Jesus and the Bible are clear that Christianity is not inclusive.
We do not exclude from worship those whose opinions differ from ours.
that depends on what subject matter of the "opinion" is.
Following a Lord who sat at the table with tax collectors and sinners, we welcome to the Lord's table all who would come.
Jesus also preached to those tax collectors and sinners to repent, which I also preach to this fellow and his followers. To welcome and unrepentant reprobate to the Lord's Table is to desecrate the Lord's Table.
Following a Lord who cited love of God and love of neighbor as encompassing all the commandments, we reject a political agenda that displaces that love.
And I submit that this fellow hasn't a clue what genuine Biblical love is, but indeed does not love by withholding the truth of Christ and calling sinners everywhere to repent.
Christians who hold these convictions ought to add their clear voice of moderation to the debate on religion in politics.
We welcome the opportunity to debate you, call you to repentence and to expose you as wolves in sheep's clothing.
Oh, so true. Show me were God was ever tolerant of sin.
In deep trouble as trying to serve two gods.
Tolerance of people with other beliefs is one thing, but it is quite another thing to be told that one has to change one's beliefs, including universal Christian teaching (until recently) on the appropriate place of sexual activity being within a lifelong heterosexual marriage, simply to be "inclusive" and "nonjudgmental" about others who are trying like the dickens to use everything at their disposal, including judges and the government, to impose their liberal views on sexual morality on everybody else. The gay activists and the abortion activists show zero tolerance to anybody who disagrees with them. Everybody must change their views to suit them, but they give nothing in return. No wonder this guy is an ECUSA priest.
FYI
Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye seek to continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free seek after the truth and never really know it. (Joh 8:31-32 Danforth Moderate Version DMV)
A Laodicean.
Exactly. Revelation 3:15-16 "I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot; I would that you were cold or hot. So because you are lukewarm (moderate!), I will spit you out of my Mouth."
An unbeliever calling himself or herself a "Christian" doesn't make him or her one.
I guess he didn't notice the phenomenon of the Dems being taken over by MoveOn.org.
Well that's certainly judgmental. Some people do only "observe" one day a week, as Paul said that some esteem one day above others, but that doesn't mean they cease to believe in the name of the Son of God the rest of the week.
And nobody can live the "perfect" life, since, we're all sinners. Even after conversion. Some judgmental "christians" forget that
Didn't Danforth cover up Waco?
Except that Jesus also gives the power to live the kind of life you're talking about. And without that power, it's impossible, and most would give up (rightfully so).
And still we sin, daily, so get off your judgmental high horse, and clean up your own life.
Yep - apparently "truth seeking" wasn't on the agenda there. Danforth's an elite establishment ass trotted out every time someone needs cover or support.
Secular humanism has had an amazing run for over 70 years. Part of its success has always depended on employing scripture to silence conservative Christian believers. Its supporters recite such pabulum as "judge not," "Jesus dined with sinners," "God is love," and "separation of church and state" not because they perceive or are even interested in the deeper and broader context or truth of these statements, but because they so effectively silence debate and allow an anti-Christian ethos to work its agenda within government and through our laws freely and without challenge.
But as your point suggests, secular humanism itself is a belief system every bit as much as any conservative Christian faith is a belief system. It is quite clearly an inferior belief system that has left as its legacy broken homes, uncontrollable abortion, a terribly weakened traditional family structure, and a bloated cradle-to-grave government caretaker role, among many other evils.
Resistance is long overdue. Danforth-style moderation was and is no resistance at all.
A majority of the laity in ECUSA reject this pap. It's the 60s hippie-culture priests & bishops who are the problem. Which is why we now have a breakup of the Episcopal Church. The pace is quickening as more congregations and entire dioceses reject the B.S. they are being force-fed and align themselves with a new national and worldwide Anglican Communion that upholds the authority of Scripture and tradition.
And don't be deceived: The most intolerant of those in ECUSA are these supposed loving & open leftists. B.S.!
-- Cradle Episcopalian
From the left, I keep hearing that people are doing and saying these things. Who are these mysterious people that are saying these things? They need better publicity. Some folks seem acutely aware of them and everything they think but I, for one, am not seeing their message widely distributed.
Could it be they are a fractional minority at best? Or, perhaps, fictional boogeymen used for propaganda?
Cf: my illustration and DMV (department of motor vehicles)
LOL!
Moderate Christian vs Fire Breathing Extremist Christian, don't you know!
Funny thing is that most of the uncivility and pure hatred coming from the Democrat party is coming from so called "Moderate Christians" more descriptively known as Christians In Name Only.
In other words, because we now have Senators who will not lay down before the Democrats on abortion and pro-abortion judges, the breakdown of "collegiality" is all our fault. Not the fault of the Dems who now use the filibuster for the purpose of denying votes on judges.
It's all about abortion, as it always is. Whenever the left complains about the Christian right, the abortion issue is in there somewhere.
That's pretty much it. The fact is we all have our own beliefs and values. It doesn't matter where said beliefs/values derive from. That *should* have no bearing on the right of an individual to engage in the political process. Whether they could be called 'religious' or not is a red herring used by secularists, primarily the Left, only as a tool to suppress beliefs they disagree with.
Well said, brother. Amen.
""Moderate Christians" more descriptively known as Christians In Name Only."
I've noticed that too. Why is it that every time I hear the discliamer "moderate christian" or "mainline christian", they then go on to bash christianity and expose that they really don't believe in it at all?
The media's definition of a "mainline christian" is "someone who doesn't believe in christianity".
Senator Danforth talks about the strident attitudes of conservative Christians that claim to know God's will hurting our political discourse. But then he proceeds to lay out his opinions on issues, most of whom contradict the prevailing view of most Christians.
Well, which is it, Senator Danforth? Are you appalled at the attitude of Christians who allegedly claim to know God's will, or are you really angry because their opinions disagree with yours?
And what are your opinions, if not what you believe God would have you say? And if so, what makes you any different from conservative Christians?
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