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Home-schooled girl fights for band spot
Lincoln Journal Star ^ | June 18, 2005 | Kendra Waltke

Posted on 06/18/2005 8:15:49 AM PDT by Graybeard58

Before the parade passes her by, Tiffany Hasley will stand up for her right to perform with the Beatrice High School marching band. She'll be on the corner of 13th and Court streets in Beatrice at 8:30 a.m. this morning, all lined up for today's Homestead Days Parade.

Clarinet in hand, standing tall in her stiff new band shoes, she plans to leave quietly when school officials tell her she cannot march. Because the home-schooled eighth-grader does not want to make a scene, just a point. That is: Home-school students should be allowed to participate in any public school activity, as long as they pay taxes and live within the school district.

"I'm not in tears," she said. "But I'm kind of mad. My band teacher says I'm a good student. And I am first-chair clarinet."

Beatrice High School officials told Tiffany last month that she would not be able to participate in band next year as a ninth-grader. The school bars home-school students from being in activities regulated by the Nebraska School Activities Association.

Tiffany's parents, Ron and Vicki Hasley, plan to fight the school's decision, maybe even in court. But, at least for this summer, they figured she could still play with the band.

That's not the case, they learned Wednesday when band director Bruce Greenwell told Tiffany just before practice that Superintendent Dale Kruse decided she should sit out Saturday's parade. On Friday, the Hasleys received a formal letter from Kruse stating the same.

"They say she isn't registered, but no one has to be registered until school starts this fall," said Ron Hasley. "Really, quote me that policy. Show me that statute."

Both Kruse and BHS activities director Randy Coleman were unavailable for comment Friday.

But Roger Harris, attorney for the Beatrice school board, said the decision is consistent with school policy. No one can play in the band unless they are registered, full-time students at the school, he said.

"Even though marching in the parade is an informal thing, it's not open to just anyone," Harris said.

"Say a student from Wymore wanted to march. Would anyone care? Probably not. But the perception is, ‘This is the Beatrice High School band,' and we have to protect that."

Whether homeschool students can be in marching band is at the discretion of each school, said Jim Tenopir, director of the NSAA.

Band members can practice or perform at non-NSAA events such as parades or high school football games. But for competitive activities, the NSAA only allows students from accredited schools to compete against other students.

NSAA eligibility rules ensure that high school students keep up their grades and attend school regularly, or they cannot compete, Tenopir said.

Enforcing the very specific and rigid rules among homeschoolers would be impossible, he said.

"You are probably not going to hear a parent say, ‘I caught my kid smoking so please don't let him play football,'" Tenopir said.

But some state senators would like to change both school policies and NSAA rules to include homeschool students.

Legislative bills addressing that issue have been introduced for the past few years, most recently by Sens. Phil Erdman and Mike Foley. But none of the bills have made it out of committee.

Ron Hasley said he's "a constitution kind of guy," who will pursue the issue, not only for his daughter but for other homeschool students.

"I pay taxes," he said. "I'm asking for a service, and I'm not getting it. I hope what happens here sets precedence for the state."


TOPICS: Extended News; Miscellaneous; US: Nebraska
KEYWORDS: beatricehs; education; educationnews; homeschool; publiceducation; publicschools; schoolband; students
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1 posted on 06/18/2005 8:15:49 AM PDT by Graybeard58
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To: Graybeard58
Here's the question: If parents want their kids involved in school-based activities, why not send them to the school?

Being a veteran public school marching-band person myself (about 15 years of my past life), there is a tangible "esprit de corps" that involves school spirit: representing ones school and playing/participating to one's best ability to represent that school. Same goes for school sports.

2 posted on 06/18/2005 8:19:43 AM PDT by NotJustAnotherPrettyFace
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To: Graybeard58

This is stupid.


3 posted on 06/18/2005 8:20:31 AM PDT by nuconvert (No More Axis of Evil by Christmas ! TLR) [there's a lot of bad people in the pistachio business])
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To: Graybeard58

Reason 42,583,722,508,681,306

I literally hate the people who run this nation's education system


4 posted on 06/18/2005 8:21:41 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (US socialist liberalism would be dead without the help of politicians who claim to be conservative.)
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To: Graybeard58

if they pay taxes into the school system, then she should be allowed.

but I think these parents are trying to make some stupid point. Being in the school band means you WANT to represent that school. Obviously she doesnt or else she would go there.


5 posted on 06/18/2005 8:23:05 AM PDT by MikefromOhio (LOL!!!)
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To: NotJustAnotherPrettyFace
Here's the question: If parents want their kids involved in school-based activities, why not send them to the school?

Ummm...because public school education just generally sucks for about a hundred reasons?

6 posted on 06/18/2005 8:23:55 AM PDT by Oberon (What does it take to make government shrink?)
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To: NotJustAnotherPrettyFace

"Here's the question: If parents want their kids involved in school-based activities, why not send them to the school?"

I agree with you. You're either in or you're out. YOu can't really choose to keep your kids out of the public school, and then pick and choose which programs you want them to participate in. Why not get together with other home-schoolers and form your own band?


7 posted on 06/18/2005 8:25:20 AM PDT by Chiapet (Cthulhu for President: Why vote for a lesser evil?)
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To: Graybeard58

I know of two instances where a public school had no problem letting home schooled student athletes participate in team sports


8 posted on 06/18/2005 8:25:35 AM PDT by Horatio Gates
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To: Chiapet
YOu can't really choose to keep your kids out of the public school, and then pick and choose which programs you want them to participate in.

Fine, then they should have their tax dollars spent on education refunded to them.

9 posted on 06/18/2005 8:27:04 AM PDT by Future Snake Eater (The plan was simple, like my brother-in-law Phil. But unlike Phil, this plan just might work.)
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To: NotJustAnotherPrettyFace

"Here's the question: If parents want their kids involved in school-based activities, why not send them to the school?"

Uh... Because the education sucks?

What do I win?


10 posted on 06/18/2005 8:27:46 AM PDT by Poser (Joining Belly Girl in the Pajamahadeen)
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To: DoughtyOne
I literally hate the people who run this nation's education system
That's a very strong statement. What about this particular case has you so upset? [I think the school district is wrong and will lose if this goes to court. Of course, it depends on the particulars.]
11 posted on 06/18/2005 8:28:21 AM PDT by Clara Lou
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To: Future Snake Eater

"Fine, then they should have their tax dollars spent on education refunded to them."

Hah. I only wished that was the way it worked. That means that all the tax dollars I contribute to government welfare programs would be refunded to me because I'm not a recipient of welfare benefits. I won't hold my breath waiting for that to happen...


12 posted on 06/18/2005 8:29:52 AM PDT by Chiapet (Cthulhu for President: Why vote for a lesser evil?)
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To: Future Snake Eater
YOu can't really choose to keep your kids out of the public school, and then pick and choose which programs you want them to participate in.
Actually, you can in some cases. Public school systems can provide services to private school students provided that those public school services rendered don't establish or support a particular religion.
13 posted on 06/18/2005 8:31:48 AM PDT by Clara Lou
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To: shotokan

My kid had a home-schooled teammate on his baseball team. Pleasant kid, great parents.


14 posted on 06/18/2005 8:32:34 AM PDT by jra
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To: Poser

"Uh... Because the education sucks?

What do I win?"


You, sir, are the winner of the Master of the Obvious Award! Congratulations!!!


15 posted on 06/18/2005 8:32:42 AM PDT by Blzbba (Let them hate us as long as they fear us - Caligula)
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To: Chiapet
Well considering your "the district's way or the highway" approach to this family, I would say it's the least you could agree to.

And if that's not good enough, then how about she takes some sort of academic placement test against the others in the band. Whoever she outscores she can replace. That seems fair, too.

16 posted on 06/18/2005 8:34:07 AM PDT by Future Snake Eater (The plan was simple, like my brother-in-law Phil. But unlike Phil, this plan just might work.)
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To: NotJustAnotherPrettyFace
If she can't be in the band, or participate on other public school activities, then then her family should be refuned that percentage of her taxes that goes to public schools.

She's paying for it. It is hers.

17 posted on 06/18/2005 8:34:09 AM PDT by beavus (Hussein's war. Bush's response.)
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To: Oberon
Ummm...because public school education just generally sucks for about a hundred reasons?

Then why entrust them to the PUBLIC SCHOOL BAND TEACHER?!

18 posted on 06/18/2005 8:34:18 AM PDT by NotJustAnotherPrettyFace
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To: NotJustAnotherPrettyFace
This girl, as well as all home schooled kids, deserve to participate in extra-cirricular activities if they rightfully earn a spot in the activity/team.

Her parents pay school taxes and the district should not be able to legally deny her participation (taxation without representation). I hope her parents sue the pants off of this school district and WIN!

19 posted on 06/18/2005 8:34:47 AM PDT by demkicker (A skunk sat on a stump; the stump thunk the skunk stunk; the skunk thunk the stump stunk.)
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To: MikeinIraq
Being in the school band means you WANT to represent that school.

Exactly my point!

20 posted on 06/18/2005 8:35:23 AM PDT by NotJustAnotherPrettyFace
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To: Chiapet
YOu can't really choose to keep your kids out of the public school, and then pick and choose which programs you want them to participate in.

That is an interesting opinion, but government programs are not permitted to exclude people, especially people who pay taxes. The school officials FEAR competition from homeschooling and try to make it harder. It is not permissible for them to do this, and, as they are acting outside their authority, their personal assets should be at risk in this tort.

21 posted on 06/18/2005 8:36:27 AM PDT by Haru Hara Haruko
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To: NotJustAnotherPrettyFace
The point is that this girl has been practicing with the 8th grade band she is is now and they are not letting her march in the parade because the next grade level up (9th grade) doesn't allow homeschooled kids to be in the band. This makes no sense. She isn't even enrolled in the 9th grade yet.

She is the lead chair and has been practicing all year with the pretense that she would march with the band...now, all of the sudden they tell her she can't.

Would this school tell another 8th grader who is in the band that they can't march in the last parade because they are moving to another town or going to the local Catholic High School? I think not!

22 posted on 06/18/2005 8:37:15 AM PDT by Born in a Rage
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To: jra
My kid had a home-schooled teammate on his baseball team. Pleasant kid, great parents.

Which is what I'd expect too. If the kid is qualified, let em play. Doesn't hurt the organization

23 posted on 06/18/2005 8:37:54 AM PDT by Horatio Gates
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To: Oberon
Ummm...because public school education just generally sucks for about a hundred reasons?

If it sucks then why should she want anything at all to do with it?

24 posted on 06/18/2005 8:39:07 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: MikeinIraq
Being in the school band means you WANT to represent that school. Obviously she doesnt or else she would go there.

No, it means that you want to play music with a group of kids so that you can better develop your God-given talent by playing with other musicians - nothing more (yes, I homeschool and have a musically gifted child).
25 posted on 06/18/2005 8:40:21 AM PDT by politicket (Hypothesis of Evolution - HOE - The Secular Religion)
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To: NotJustAnotherPrettyFace

Because we don't WANT them to have our kids all day. We don't want them to have that much input and influence. There's a big difference in participation in the school band and them being there ALL day.


26 posted on 06/18/2005 8:40:35 AM PDT by hiredhand (My kitty disappeared. NOT the rifle!)
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To: Future Snake Eater
Fine, then they should have their tax dollars spent on education refunded to them.

I didn't call the police or the fire department once last year. Can I get my tax dollars that were spent on them refunded?

27 posted on 06/18/2005 8:41:41 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: Graybeard58

Article states, "That is: Home-school students should be allowed to participate in any public school activity, as long as they pay taxes and live within the school district."

If this girl doesn't attend school then she is not among the head count for the district, meaining the school does NOT receive any money for her. I have nothing against home-schooling, but with it comes choices and sacrifices - this is one of those sacrifices.


28 posted on 06/18/2005 8:41:56 AM PDT by onevoter
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To: NotJustAnotherPrettyFace
Then why entrust them to the PUBLIC SCHOOL BAND TEACHER?!

As a homeschool parent I would FULLY agree with this statement. However, these parents have the right (via their taxes) to utilize any resources within the public school system - including marching band if the child is musically capable.
29 posted on 06/18/2005 8:42:54 AM PDT by politicket (Hypothesis of Evolution - HOE - The Secular Religion)
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To: NotJustAnotherPrettyFace
You asked: " Then why entrust them to the PUBLIC SCHOOL BAND TEACHER?!"

Because she plays the clarinet really well and she enjoys playing with the band? And she's a resident of the school district and she and her parents are tax-paying citizens of the United States?

Hey, do I get a Master of the Obvious Award too??

30 posted on 06/18/2005 8:43:11 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (All in all, you're just another Brick in the Wall.)
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To: Haru Hara Haruko

"That is an interesting opinion, but government programs are not permitted to exclude people, especially people who pay taxes."

I think that you're wrong about this. First of all, the government can exclude people from programs based upon qualifications. As I stated in an earlier post, my tax money goes towards government welfare programs, the benefits of which I do not receive because I do not qualify for welfare.

As the article points out, the school is permitted to exclude students who are not registered at that school. She is not a registered student at that school, therefore, they can exclude her. It only makes sense that one particular school's programming would be limited to the students at that school. Otherwise, you could end up with a situation where kids from all over the area were clamoring to get into a particularly good program (band, science, math, whatever) whether they were registered students at that school or not.

I can't see why the parents (or the student for that matter) would want her to participate in school programs if they had already decided that the school wasn't good enough.


31 posted on 06/18/2005 8:43:52 AM PDT by Chiapet (Cthulhu for President: Why vote for a lesser evil?)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Uh, does the school's insurance cover kids who aren't enrolled in the school?


32 posted on 06/18/2005 8:44:30 AM PDT by durasell (Friends are so alarming, My lover's never charming...)
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To: Non-Sequitur
Home schoolers (I am not against it) sometimes seem to me like a cult. I don't mean that in a bad way but they are all in their own worlds and when for example you are not allowed in a "school band" they get upset. Why did it not occur to them to create a home school band? Once again I have no problems with homeschooling for those that can do it but I don't see all public schools as "evil" or all public school teachers as "over paid incompetents".
33 posted on 06/18/2005 8:45:49 AM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting johnathangaltfilms.com and jihadwatch.org)
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To: Graybeard58

I'm sure special permission would be quickly granted if the home schooled student were male and a talented football player. Our school district also blocked home schooled students from some but not all activities...orchestra is OK, but not sports. It is a matter of time before our District is sued over this stupid policy.


34 posted on 06/18/2005 8:47:45 AM PDT by The Great RJ
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To: Chiapet
Otherwise, you could end up with a situation where kids from all over the area were clamoring to get into a particularly good program (band, science, math, whatever) whether they were registered students at that school or not.

You mean people accessing a service thye pay for? The horror!

You know quite well what this is about: It is about petty bureaucrats telling the people who pay them how to behave. The bureaucrat should lose his job and his house. Such people deserve humiliation.

35 posted on 06/18/2005 8:48:13 AM PDT by Haru Hara Haruko
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To: Future Snake Eater
I think the argument you are presenting here is not really applicable. If the act of paying school taxes somehow entitles one to use whatever school facilities/programs he or she wishes, then the school would have no right to exclude adults from their band, either.

I'm usually the first one to stand up for the rights of parents who homeschool their kids, but in this case I'm on the side of the school. The kid is either a student of the school, or she's not. She can't have it both ways.

36 posted on 06/18/2005 8:50:14 AM PDT by Alberta's Child (I ain't got a dime, but what I got is mine. I ain't rich, but lord I'm free.)
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To: Haru Hara Haruko

"You mean people accessing a service thye pay for? The horror!"

Actually, you're wrong about them paying for the service. As someone pointed out in a post above, if the girl isn't part of the registered headcount for the school, then the school receieves no money for her. And as someone pointed out in a post below, if the school has to allow everyone who pays taxes into the school's programs, then they would have no right to exclude adults either.


37 posted on 06/18/2005 8:53:47 AM PDT by Chiapet (Cthulhu for President: Why vote for a lesser evil?)
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To: Graybeard58

"My band teacher says I'm a good student. And I am first-chair clarinet."

It sounds like she is enrolled at least for one class somewhere.

You can take private music lessons and play solo, but you can't take band unless you are in with other students.

The article isn't clear about this.

Is she home schooled for academics and takes the band class at the school?


38 posted on 06/18/2005 8:53:59 AM PDT by TASMANIANRED (Democrats haven't had a new idea since Karl Marx.)
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To: politicket

LOL

right ok....sure that's what it means for all those other kids!!!

its really simple. If you want to represent the school in the marching band, then go to the school.

Dont you think that is KIND OF a MIXED signal, saying I want to represent your school in the band but not in the classroom?

you can't have your cake and eat it too, whether you be Conservative and homeschooled or liberal and in the public schools.


39 posted on 06/18/2005 8:54:35 AM PDT by MikefromOhio (LOL!!!)
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To: Oberon

Here's the question: If parents want their kids involved in school-based activities, why not send them to the school?
Ummm...because public school education just generally sucks for about a hundred reasons?

So.... the parents want their child to represent the schools they despise by playing in the school band? I am all for home schooling. The argument about paying taxes as creating a right to join the school band just doesn't fly though. You have the choice of going to the school or not. If you go, maybe you can play in the band. If you don't, you cannot.


40 posted on 06/18/2005 8:56:27 AM PDT by NCLaw441
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To: Alberta's Child

You state, " The kid is either a student of the school, or she's not. She can't have it both ways."

Absolutely true. Most schools are funded based on head count. Paying taxes doesn't mean that this particular school receives money to cover this girl just because she lives nearby. Life is about choices and this is one of them. My taxes help pay for services for the Vetaran's Hospital down the street - that doesn't mean that I can walk in and demand free medical care.


41 posted on 06/18/2005 8:56:47 AM PDT by onevoter
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To: Alberta's Child
If the act of paying school taxes somehow entitles one to use whatever school facilities/programs he or she wishes, then the school would have no right to exclude adults from their band, either.

No, because schools are for people of certain ages.

It's more like having a public senior center that is paid for by taxpayers tell a senior that they can't play with the senior citizen band because they play bingo with the local church (who is the senior groups competition).

42 posted on 06/18/2005 8:57:42 AM PDT by Born in a Rage
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To: Future Snake Eater

You said: Fine, then they should have their tax dollars spent on education refunded to them.



Just like single and childless (child-free?) couples get a portion of their tax money back. Kind of like how I get my portion of public broadcasting tax money back...


43 posted on 06/18/2005 8:58:04 AM PDT by NCLaw441
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To: beavus

What about people that don't have any kids? Do they get their taxes refunded to them?


44 posted on 06/18/2005 8:58:09 AM PDT by luckystarmom
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To: Chiapet

That isn't true. Public schools can get funding for students who are only enrolled part time. Actually, it has inspired some public schools to start up 'home school programs'.


45 posted on 06/18/2005 9:00:03 AM PDT by Born in a Rage
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To: luckystarmom
What about people that don't have any kids? Do they get their taxes refunded to them?

YES!!! They absolutely should. Definitely.

46 posted on 06/18/2005 9:00:26 AM PDT by beavus (Hussein's war. Bush's response.)
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To: Graybeard58

"You are probably not going to hear a parent say, ‘I caught my kid smoking so please don't let him play football,'" Tenopir said."

Clueless. This is why they make such bad decisions regarding homeschooling. They have no comprehension of the way it works.

A. I belong to a homeschooling group. We just don't have the behavioral problems schools do, especially the ones based on peer pressure. Yes, we have our bad eggs, a few kids bound for trouble, but it's rare. There is not one kid in our group I have heard of smoking (and believe me, it gets around. The gossip that goes on rivals anything in a public school) The bigger problem among hs is computer related stuff.

B. I have seen hsers deprived of much more than football for infractions. Parents who hs take infractions very seriously - if discipline breaks down with your hser; you are in trouble. I remember when a child was grounded for a month because he failed his Spanish test.

C: HS test regularly (at least once a year) so it is easy to ascertain if they are keeping up grade average. My thought is that as with public students if you want your child to participate in activites they also have to submit proof they are keeping up academically. If the parent doesn't want to do that, well, the public students have to do it so I don't see the discrimination.


47 posted on 06/18/2005 9:01:29 AM PDT by I still care (America is not the problem - it is the solution..)
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To: Oberon; All
Yes!!! SO glad you said that!

My children went through the public school system - as I did, because where we live Home-schooling was just not something thought of, and due to the crazy education system - parents had to fight for the right to do this anyway. They were shunned, and fought a hard fight to gain that right.

Now, it has become a more open system, rights have been granted, and there is curriculum available.

My friend (whom I have known since school) started her family later in life than I, and she and her husband have chosen to Home school their children - even though they are in one of the highest ranked education systems in the state. Why? Because they want THEIR values instilled, their childern taught well and do not want their children passed over in school because they may be faster or slower than others.

Looking at my children - I wish so badly I had kept them home - at least for a while. A classroom of two or three is much more conducive to learning than a classroom of 30 or more.

With each child learning differently,(we all learn differently, and at different rates - but public school forces students to conform) it is no wonder so many kids are coming out of school these days with the ability to barely function in society. Perhaps in bigger cities and richer districts this is not the case - but my children attended a high school (one is still there), where a higher education is NOT pushed, and the 'general education' classes prepare them for nothing more than a low paying job in which they will be stuck (more than likely) for the rest of their lives.

Another issue falling with the values and curriculum - is the non-presence of teaching self-esteem. Ocassionally a teacher can be found which is instilling such a thing - but where we live - good luck finding that.

Funny thing though - everyone wants to know what has happened to the kids these days - why the drugs, crime, dis-respect? 2005 is not 1985 or 1979 or even 1990. Things have changed so dramatically that many children ARE left behind. If a parent is choosing to give their child a boost up in this world - why is that such a bad thing? Perhaps If I had KNOWN then what I know now - my kids would be in a much better position to contribute to society in the future. But I wasn't brought up to think this way, and now it is too late for one - and my youngest is 16 and refuses to be pulled from his school due to his involvement in JROTC.

Yep, our Home-schooled kids can only participate in select things, too, and since JROTC is an actual class, he could not do it if he were home-schooled.

If we are truly to be a FREE America - should we not have the right to teach our children as we see fit? And if we are still paying taxes - which we are - why should those children be denied rights already paid for?

48 posted on 06/18/2005 9:02:04 AM PDT by Just Kimberly (Always proud, Always American, Always Trust in God...HOOAH!!( and Terri - we will never forget.))
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To: Future Snake Eater

You pay taxes into the school system even if you don't have kids, much less have kids not in the school system. So that logic isn't logical. I'm all for home schooling, thinks it's great, but I think part of home schooling mean no school activities. You're in or you're out. If you went to school X you wouldn't be eligible to be in the marching band for school Y, well home is a school X and she wants in Y's band. Seems pretty universally applicable to me, if you don't go to the school in question, regardless of where you do go to school, you cannot be on any of the teams sports or acedemic; no football team, no chear squad, no marching band, no theater group, no chess team. Not for kids that go to a different school in the same system, not for kids that go to a public school in a different system, not for kids that go to private or charter schools, and not for home schooled kids. It's perfectly logical and perfectly fair.


49 posted on 06/18/2005 9:02:59 AM PDT by discostu (The dude abides)
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To: Chiapet
Why not get together with other home-schoolers and form your own band?

That's a good idea. Even as a veteran marching band member, I can see the point in not allowing the kid to participate, though I'm sure that the rest of the band people won't care. On the other hand, In that same vein, I know of some colleges that will let other college kids participate their band who don't have one of their own.
50 posted on 06/18/2005 9:03:28 AM PDT by Beaker
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