Faded Vision Splits Europe

New York Times ^ | June 19, 2005 | ELAINE SCIOLINO

[68skylark]

BRUSSELS, June 18 - Something shattered in Europe last night.

The leaders of the 25 European Union nations went home after a failed two-day summit meeting in anger and in shame, as domestic politics and national interests defeated lofty notions of sacrifice and solidarity for the benefit of all.

The battle over money and the shelving of the bloc's historic constitution, after the crushing no votes in France and the Netherlands, stripped away all pretense of an organization with a common vision and reflected the fears of many leaders as they face rising popular opposition to the project called Europe.

Their attacks on one another after they failed to agree on a future budget - for 2007 through 2013 - seemed destructive and unnecessary, and it is not at all clear that they will be able to repair their relationships. And even if they do, the damage to the organization will endure.

Most embarrassing for the European Union was an attempt by its 10 newest members to salvage the budget agreement late last night. They offered to give up some of their own aid from the union so that the older and richer members could keep theirs.

For the new members, that offer was an opportunity to prove their worth. Criticizing the "egoism" of countries driven by national interests, Prime Minister Marek Belka of Poland said, "Nobody will be able to say that for Poland, the European Union is just a pile of money."

But for the older members, it was a humiliation. "When I heard one after the other, all the new member states - each poorer than the other - say that in the interest of an agreement they would be ready to renounce part of the money they are due, I was ashamed,"....

[RedMonqey]

"...stripping the French of their Frenchity."

How do you pronounce that? Fren-CHITEE' or Fren-SHITTY?



I prefer the latter....

[GSlob]

Then it would be "purging" or "syringing"

[GopherGOPer]

If the UK leaves, the economy collapses. Period.

The Netherlands won't be very far behind UK, and then Finland and the Swedes, I think pretty soon it will just be the ones who are getting the most from the EU budget. All of a sudden they will realise that the money isn't coming in and it will all fail.

[GSlob]

Europe has to figure out how to get the UK out, and how to get the Ukraine and Russia in.
To an extent that "Europe" is synonymical with Huntington's "Western civ", admitting anything non-token from "Orthodox civ" [in Huntington's nomenclature] would be suicidal for Europe.

[GopherGOPer]

I see your point, and I'm very hopefull. I love Germany. My ancestors came from Germany.

I know the CDU will push for better ties with the US, and will try its best to pull the majority of the population out of dhimmitude. For the past several years, at least the past 3, Germany has sat up and obeyed whenever France beckoned. Germany used to be a proud nation, not a lap dog.

I hope the economic reality has finally awakened the good people of Germany out of their dhimmitude.

I'm very hopefull for Germany, and look forward to the day they throw Chirac oops I mean Shroeder out from office.

[Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)]

… defeated lofty notions of sacrifice and solidarity for the benefit of all.

It should read:…defeated lofty notions of sacrifice and solidarity for the benefit of a few.

[Plymouth Sentinel]

Agreed.

The example might be a stretch, but the unifying force at the Plymouth Colony was the shedding of a communal effort (no one did any work), and the introduction of free choice concerning what and how much to produce.

In Europe, the social net is celebrated, and entrepreneurship is scorned. Banks are the chief source of finance (rather than the capital markets) leading to regulatory preferential treatment, little ability for investors to share risks, inadequate choices for firms to build optimal capital structures. This leads ultimately to an underfunded capital stock of productive assets and poor economic performance or little growth. The cycle then starts all over again.

You know why Japan was the envy of the world from the 1950's until 1989? No capital gains taxes. Joe Stiglitz won a nobel prize for basically suggesting that it was their banking system that provided capital. Turns out he was wholly wrong, as were, typically, the Nobel committee members.

In Europe, start with cutting taxes and offering incentives for saving, then beef up the capital markets (the same thing the sneering pig Chirac derides).

Success in a generation or less. Then you'll have a European identity.

You'd find it funny to know that even at LSE, Imperial, SOAS (London University colleges all) they're teaching macroeconomic policy according to the US.

[Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)]

One of the reasons the EU was never, ever going to work is because they don’t have one language and one culture. Also, socialism never works.

[Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)]

...but the unifying force at the Plymouth Colony was the shedding of a communal effort (no one did any work), and the introduction of free choice concerning what and how much to produce.

You are so correct. I enjoyed reading your entire post. Thank you.

[Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)]

...but the unifying force at the Plymouth Colony was the shedding of a communal effort (no one did any work), and the introduction of free choice concerning what and how much to produce.

You are so correct. I enjoyed reading your entire post. Thank you.

[RightWhale]

it cannot be done without a bloodbath

Or even with, apparently. That has been tried often enough.

[GSlob]

...sacrifice and solidarity for the benefit of a few.
All solidarity and sacrifices of the many have always been for the benefit of the few, albeit those few were always trying to disguise themselves as "the many" ot at very least as representing "the many". So what else is new? I've heard that the second apple had fallen on Sir Isaac Newton's head. "This confirms the law of gravity" - the prominent scientist was heard saying.

[68skylark]

I don't know if anyone on the Easter European ping list would like to comment on this. I think I've asked for opinions like this in the past, and I'm always interested to hear more.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the demise of the current EU system seems like it should be a good opportunity for other countries (like the UK, Poland, etc) to offer some ideas that are built more on free trade than on socialism.

[68skylark]

In Europe, start with cutting taxes and offering incentives for saving, then beef up the capital markets (the same thing the sneering pig Chirac derides).

It's easy (and fun!) for us to sit back and tell Europe what to do. But really, I like your ideas and I wish we could do more of them here in the U.S.

[GSlob]

Well, there are some isolated reports of successful transculturations, like, say, Islamization of Iraq by al-Hajjaj(sp?) around 7th century AD. The butchery associated with his name is still remembered. But then again, he did not have to transculturate among major language barriers, only across religious ones.

[RightWhale]

That was followed by the destruction of Baghdad and the slaughter of all the inhabitants a few centuries later. There have been many bloodbaths and few if any have had the intended permanent results.

For example, if the Third Reich, which turned into a bloodbath, had reached its goals, would Europe, including Russia, right now, be much different?

[lizol]

Actuallly some people say, that now - after Franco-German duo's influence has got weaker - it is a chance for antoher ideas.

The problem is, that I don't really see any chance for making EU more liberal (as far as economy is concerned, of course).
The reason why the French rejected the European Constitution was, that they considered it as being to liberal. They were afraid, that it will demolish their welfare system.

At the same time Great Britain, and the "New Europe" want the EU's economy to become more and more free.

Another problem is, that I don't believe Jacque-ass Chirac will accept any ideas about EU coming from Poland. His "dignity" will not let it happen.

Remember - when Poland supported Bush's War on Terror - Chirac commented in public press conference, that we missed the opportinity to shut up.

[lizol]

Maybe you guys have any comment about it?

[nathanbedford]

Prime Minister Tony Blair of Britain leads the camp that wants a Europe with fewer trade and employment barriers and a more free-market orientation to better compete against rising giants like India and China. Yet he rejected all criticism of Britain for vetoing the final agreement on the budget, which would have required Britain to reduce the annual rebate, now $6 billion a year, that it gets back from its contribution to the European Union budget.

By contrast, Mr. Chirac and some of his allies are skeptical of what they call the "Anglo-Saxon model" and protective of the continental "social model" that offers citizens a protective economic security shield. He refused to compromise Friday night on Mr. Blair's demand that France reduce the $13 billion in farm subsidies it receives every year from the European Union.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1425445/posts

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/my/comments?more=96464870

[68skylark]

Thanks for your thoughts. Yeah, if some European countries want to pursue economic ideas built around freedom, then those countries might have to realize that France and Germany and other parts of "old Europe" are not going to participate. That may not be a bad thing -- maybe some freedom-loving countries can build their own alliance.