Catholics Lash Out at Parade in Belfast

LA Times ^ | June 19, 2005

[Panerai]

Roman Catholic protesters assaulted police and Protestant marchers in a polarized part of Belfast, and nearly 30 people were injured, police in Northern Ireland said Saturday.

The violence flared Friday night as a parade by the Orange Order, a Protestant fraternity, passed a hostile crowd on the edge of the Ardoyne district, a traditionally Catholic enclave. Hundreds of police in riot gear tried to keep the two sides apart, but Catholic men and youths spent more than an hour hurling bottles, bricks and at least 10 Molotov cocktails at the police lines.

The Police Service of Northern Ireland said 18 officers were injured, none seriously. The 11 injured civilians included a 14-year-old girl with a broken arm.

The rioting fizzled out once police deployed water cannons to douse the Catholic crowd.

"We were deployed in sufficient force to prevent a bad situation from getting worse, but as it was, our officers came under sustained attack," said Superintendent Gary White, who commanded the police operation.

Police said they arrested three people for rioting and planned more arrests once people photographed by surveillance cameras could be formally identified.

Several hours later, in apparent retaliation, Protestant militants attacked five homes in nearby Ligoniel, a Catholic district. The houses were struck about 2:30 a.m. Saturday with paint-filled balloons. And three had broken windows or scorch damage from ignited gasoline-filled bottles.

Ardoyne is one of the most hard-line nationalist districts of north Belfast. Residents there generally loathe the Orange Order, an organization that mounts more than 2,000 parades annually, many in July, to commemorate the victory of Prince William of Orange in 1690 over King James II, a Catholic.

[sgtbono2002]

I dont blame these people for throwing things at the Orange men. Each year they dress up in their silly costumes and go marching arrogantly near Catholic areas stirring up old hatreds.

[Mark was here]

to commemorate the victory of Prince William of Orange in 1690 over King James II, a Catholic.

I found it interesting that the Catholics in Ireland invited the French to tramp through Ireland to attack England. The French were stopped, thus the Orange celebration, the Catholics are still stewing over the defeat of France.

About the same time in history France was busy attacking English colonies in America, by hiring Indians to attack the new Americans. This was called the French and Indian war.

[squirt-gun]

The English in Northern Ireland maintain their pro slavery stance with the Catholics....

They begrudge them opportunities in every facet of life such as equal political representation and education so that the only opportunities for the disenfranchised Catholics are as servants and assistasnts to their captors.

These pathetic "Orangemen" celebrate this inhumanity each years with an "IN YOUR FACE" procession of arrogance, ignorance, and brutality.

Is it any wonder there is this constant fight to obtain a fair measure of happiness?

Make no mistake...This English oppression of modern times has nothing to do with theology or fear of a Roman Catholic invasion from Italy....It is pure and simple a desire to maintain an easily identifiable group of people in perpetual slavery and low cost servitude..

[Panerai]

"I dont blame these people for throwing things at the Orange men" ... sure, such things as "bottles, bricks and at least 10 Molotov cocktails". Sounds more like the Palestinians of Europe

[Mark was here]

They begrudge them opportunities in every facet of life such as equal political representation and education so that the only opportunities for the disenfranchised Catholics are as servants and assistants to their captors.

Why didn't the English make slaves of the Protestants also? Why have a sip when you can take the whole jug?

[LowCountryJoe]

Both groups are Christian and yet this 300-plus-year-old conflict continues; how utterly sad. I wish more sensible Christian members would do some soul searching here, maybe even do some serious questioning of their organization's "leadership". Either that or they could be exposed to some of the reasoning from past wise men...say Thomas Jefferson for example.

An excerpt from a Jefferson letter to Samuel Kercheval, in January 1810:

Yours of the 7th instant has been duly received, with the pamphlet enclosed, for which I return you my thanks. Nothing can be more exactly and seriously true than what is there stated: that but a short time elapsed after the death of the great reformer of the Jewish religion, before his principles were departed from by those who professed to be his special servants, and perverted into an engine for enslaving mankind, and aggrandizing their oppressors in Church and State: that the purest system of morals ever before preached to man has been adulterated and sophisticated by artificial constructions, into a mere contrivance to filch wealth and power to themselves: that rational men, not being able to swallow their impious heresies, in order to force them down their throats, they raise the hue and cry of infidelity, while themselves are the greatest obstacles to the advancement of the real doctrines of Jesus, and do, in fact, constitute the real Anti-Christ.

[squirt-gun]

Why didn't the English make slaves of the Protestants also?

....Why? because they ARE the English of today!

[Jim Noble]

I dont blame these people for throwing things at the Orange men. Each year they dress up in their silly costumes and go marching arrogantly near Catholic areas

So, what makes a piece of the UK a "Catholic area"?

When near such a "Catholic area", how should non-Catholics act, and why? If it's arrogant for them to walk near it, is it arrogant for them to go to Church near it? How about breathing near it?

How close to these "Catholic areas" is near? And how far away is safe?

And if their whole country were converted into a "Catholic area", what would it mean for them then? Should they welcome that, or fear it?

[SteveMcKing]

I've had to put up with certain Boston area Catholics (I suppose I'm one) who act like they still live in Ireland. You can thank them for putting the Kennedys in power all these years.

This is America, and the only opperession in Boston comes from Beacon Hill liberals and the murderous Bulger brothers.

(Whitey- we're still coming for you.)
http://www.fbi.gov/mostwant/topten/fugitives/bulger.htm

Aliases: Thomas F. Baxter, Mark Shapeton, Jimmy Bulger, James Joseph Bulger, James J. Bulger, Jr., James Joseph Bulger, Jr., Tom Harris, Tom Marshall, "Whitey"

JAMES J. BULGER IS BEING SOUGHT FOR HIS ROLE IN NUMEROUS MURDERS COMMITTED FROM THE EARLY 1970s THROUGH THE MID-1980s IN CONNECTION WITH HIS LEADERSHIP OF AN ORGANIZED CRIME GROUP THAT ALLEGEDLY CONTROLLED EXTORTION, DRUG DEALS, AND OTHER ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES IN THE BOSTON, MASSACHUSETTS, AREA.

[Mark was here]

....Why? because they ARE the English of today!

I'm asking about back then, it is my understanding that the English treated the Protestants fine, it was those who aligned with France who had a problem, in that they could not be trusted.

[Mark was here]

I've had to put up with certain Boston area Catholics (I suppose I'm one) who act like they still live in Ireland. You can thank them for putting the Kennedys in power all these years.

Funny now that you mention it, you never have a scene in an organized crime movie where they head over to a Baptist Church for a pot luck supper in the basement.

[squirt-gun]

The people of that time, those who were not Roman Catholic, were largely English and protestant....subsequently inter-related with the Church of England.

The different hopes of Ireland's Catholics and Protestants clashed in the late 1680s when Catholic James II was dethroned by the Protestant William of Orange. There were subsequent atrocities on both sides.

But the horrors of today in our modern world are clear as to cause...........The English oppression has nothing to do with theology or fear of a Roman Catholic invasion from Italy....It is pure and simple a desire to maintain an easily identifiable group of people in perpetual low cost servitude. This comes from unequal educational opportunities and political representation.

It is all too easy for the major industries of the north, such as aircraft manufacturing and the like, to enjoy the cheap labor available from this abhorrent institution of enforced servitude for Roman Catholics who are so easily identifiable.

[Mark was here]

But the horrors of today in our modern world are clear as to cause...........The English oppression has nothing to do with theology or fear of a Roman Catholic invasion from Italy....It is pure and simple a desire to maintain an easily identifiable group of people in perpetual low cost servitude. This comes from unequal educational opportunities and political representation.

I doubt the Italians are the issue.

How can I ask this politely, as this could be mis-interpeted ... can you draw a parallel between those in Latin America and those in Ireland you claim to be in slavery? Is there something in their ideology, that suppresses their independence? Was it just luck that English Colonies prospered in the new World, while the Spanish never really got their act together?

[squirt-gun]

I doubt the Italians are the issue.

This is so true!....

Yes, and perhaps the word "slavery" was a poor choice and an invitation to digression....

"Servitude" is a much better choice, I think, as it is more apropos to the reality of a group of people who are sustained in a ghetto like existence in order to provide cheap labor.....

I think most reasonable people would agree that the economics of cheap labor and not fear of the papacy and such theological nonsense is the root of this unfairness and the catalyst for the ongoing, mutual hatred.

[sgtbono2002]

Why try to explain it to you its a waste of time.

[sgtbono2002]

Sometime try dressin up in a Confederate uniform and marching thru Anacostia Washiungton DC and see what reaction you get.

Each year these Orangemen march thru Areas, where mostly Catholics live to rub salt in old wounds. You wouldnt like the KKK marching in a black neighborhood in their hoods and would probably throw a few bricks yourself. Yet you feel its ok for these jerks.

[Labyrinthos]

Funny now that you mention it, you never have a scene in an organized crime movie where they head over to a Baptist Church for a pot luck supper in the basement.

KKK

[Mark was here]

KKK

... must me a branch of the Purple Gang...

[Irish_Thatcherite]

I believe if Orangemen want to march, they can - there are Orange parades in the Republic as well (I know there's one in Foxford, Co. Mayo), and we don't bat an eye.

Sinn Fein/IRA exploits the marching season to push their sectarian agenda - the truth is most Northern Catholics don't object to parades.