Posted on 06/20/2005 9:58:36 PM PDT by goldstategop
It is almost impossible to overstate how radically different Old Testament thought was from the thought of the rest of its contemporary world. And it continues to be, given how few societies affirm Judeo-Christian values and how much opposition to them exists in American society, the society that has most incorporated these values.
Among the most radical of these differences was the incredible declaration that God is outside of nature and is its creator.
In every society on earth, people venerated nature and worshipped nature gods. There were gods of thunder and gods of rain. Mountains were worshipped, as were rivers, animals and every natural force known to man. In ancient Egypt, for example, gods included the Nile River, the frog, sun, wind, gazelle, bull, cow, serpent, moon and crocodile.
Then came Genesis, which announced that a supernatural God, i.e., a god who existed outside of nature, created nature. Nothing about nature was divine.
Professor Nahum Sarna, the author of what I consider one of the two most important commentaries on Genesis and Exodus, puts it this way: "The revolutionary Israelite concept of God entails His being wholly separate from the world of His creation and wholly other than what the human mind can conceive or the human imagination depict."
The other magisterial commentary on Genesis was written by the late Italian Jewish scholar Umberto Cassuto, professor of Bible at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem: "Relative to the ideas prevailing among the peoples of the ancient East, we are confronted here with a basically new conception and a spiritual revolution . . . The basically new conception consists in the completely transcendental view of the Godhead . . . the God of Israel is outside and above nature, and the whole of nature, the sun, and the moon, and all the hosts of heaven, and the earth beneath, and the sea that is under the earth, and all that is in them -- they are all His creatures which He created according to His will."
This was extremely difficult for men to assimilate then. And as society drifts from Judeo-Christian values, it is becoming difficult to assimilate again today. Major elements in secular Western society are returning to a form of nature worship. Animals are elevated to equality with people, and the natural environment is increasingly regarded as sacred. The most extreme expressions of nature worship actually view human beings as essentially blights on nature.
Even among some who consider themselves religious, and especially among those who consider themselves "spiritual" rather than religious, nature is regarded as divine, and God is deemed as dwelling within it.
It is quite understandable that people who rely on feelings more than reason to form their spiritual beliefs would deify nature. It is easier -- indeed more natural -- to worship natural beauty than an invisible and morally demanding God.
What is puzzling is that many people who claim to rely more on reason would do so. Nature is unworthy of worship. Nature, after all, is always amoral and usually cruel. Nature has no moral laws, only the amoral law of survival of the fittest.
Why would people who value compassion, kindness or justice venerate nature? The notions of justice and caring for the weak are unique to humanity. In the rest of nature, the weak are to be killed. The individual means nothing in nature; the individual is everything to humans. A hospital, for example, is a profoundly unnatural, indeed antinatural, creation; to expend precious resources on keeping the most frail alive is simply against nature.
The romanticizing of nature, let alone the ascribing of divinity to it, involves ignoring what really happens in nature. I doubt that those American schoolchildren who conducted a campaign on behalf of freeing a killer whale (the whale in the film "Free Willy") ever saw films of actual killer whale behavior. There are National Geographic videos that show, among other things, killer whales tossing a terrified baby seal back and forth before finally killing it. Perhaps American schoolchildren should see those films and then petition killer whales not to treat baby seals sadistically.
If you care about good and evil, you cannot worship nature. And since that is what God most cares about, nature worship is antithetical to Judeo-Christian values.
Nature surely reflects the divine. It is in no way divine. Only nature's Creator is.
(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)
God is everywhere...even in Nature. Even in a burning bush, or the rainbow over the rockies. God exists in the breath you take and the beauty around you.
'If you want to treat a tiger reasonably, you must go back to the garden of Eden. For the obstinate reminder continued to recur: only the supernatural has taken a sane view of Nature. The essence of all pantheism, evolutionism, and modern cosmic religion is really in this proposition: that Nature is our mother. Unfortunately, if you regard Nature as a mother, you discover that she is a step-mother. The main point of Christianity was this: that Nature is not our mother: Nature is our sister. We can be proud of her beauty, since we have the same father; but she has no authority over us; we have to admire, but not to imitate.'
BTW, the rest of this paragraph is less relevant here but still interesting:
'This gives to the typically Christian pleasure in this earth a strange touch of lightness that is almost frivolity. Nature was a solemn mother to the worshippers of Isis and Cybele. Nature was a solemn mother to Wordsworth or to Emerson. But Nature is not solemn to Francis of Assisi or to George Herbert. To St. Francis, Nature is a sister, and even a younger sister: a little, dancing sister, to be laughed at as well as loved.'
If that isn't a responsibility for environmental stewardship, I don't know what would be.
(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)
(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)
I find God in nature...are you going to tell me otherwise? I find God in my daughters laughter...are you going to tell me otherwise. I find God in my mom's battle with Cancer...are you going to tell me otherwise. I find God in the beauty around us.
(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)
Depends upon how you look at the Scripture. If you consult how God describes His punishments upon man for violation of His Statutes, as for example in Leviticus 26, He places man at the effect of natural disasters AND personifies nature, thus:
32 And I will bring the land into desolation: and your enemies which dwell therein shall be astonished at it.
33 And I will scatter you among the heathen, and will draw out a sword after you: and your land shall be desolate, and your cities waste.
34 Then shall the land enjoy her sabbaths, as long as it lieth desolate, and ye be in your enemies' land; even then shall the land rest, and enjoy her sabbaths.
17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
This is not to mention the plagues against Egypt, which were largely environmental as well. It's a recurrent theme in the Bible that Nature is at HIS command, and it will support us only as long as the children of Israel keep His Commandments and His Statutes.
Sharp as an orange.
Thanks!
Then came Genesis? I do believe Genesis came before the Egyptians.
Many people think that God is in everything. But according to the Bible, that is not correct. God is everywhere, but He is in only the believer, Christians, in the form of the Holy Spirit. We are all God's creatures, part of His creation, but only Christians are His children.
It makes no sense to speak of "worshipping" any thing that's not a sentient being or an abstract concept. You could appreciate such a thing, try to understand it, learn how to deal with it, but not worship it.
Nature, man, ever thing is/was a creation of God but creation it is not god.
God also allows free will and therefor God allows his creation to change to less then his perfect will for his creation
(IE evil is not a creation of God, but because free will is allowed by God)
"We are all God's creatures, part of His creation, but only Christians are His children."
As a Jew I would strongly disagree with your statement.
Hardly radical or incredible. Xenophanes of Colophon said much the same thing. So did the Egyptian account of the creation of the world by the pure will of Ptah, which is of predynastic origin, ie before 3200BC. The creation account in the Indian Rig Veda is similar: the universe was created by Purusha, "the being beyond all others".
The supposed exceptionalism of Genesis claimed in this article is simply not true, as any study of comparative mythology will show.
Ping!
Related to our prior discussion!
This is not a personal attack on Jewish people, it is a faithful following of the words of our Messiah. As you must know, we honor and bless the people that God chose to inspire and preserve His Word too. You are also the Nation who our Messiah came forth to mankind from.
Jhn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
The sacrifices were ended in 70AD. The blood is no longer being sprinkled on the Seat of Mercy. The scapegoat is no longer being released. The sin of Israel is no longer covered by the Jewish sacrificial system mandated by God. The required sacrifices are not being made on the Altar of God.
At the crucification, the veil was ripped. The ultimate sacrifice took place on the cross. The sinless Son of God. The Messiah suffered and died just as prophesied in the Old Testament. The Seat of Mercy in the Holy of Holies was made available to Jew and Greek alike on that day.
Moses was instructed to construct a brass serpent and place it atop a pole. When bitten by asps, the Israelis were instructed to look to the brass serpent (symbolically representing 'brass=judged' 'serpent=sin') for healing. The cross of Jesus Christ has an even greater power to heal when we look to it for Salvation, for it cleanses us of all our sin and His resurrection assures us that we will have eternal life with our Creator based on our judged sin at the cross.
Repentance is a recognition of our need for forgiveness (no person can be called good). Salvation is what we receive when we recognize Jesus' finished work on the cross as His gift of forgiveness to us (we are made good by His judged body on the cross and we are washed of our sin by His shed perfectly sinless blood). Adam's blood was tainted by his disobedience, but Jesus Christ blood is cleansing because of His perfect obedience. Believers in Jesus are made right with God.
I pray that you come to know the Messiah. Until then, please keep an open mind, and study the Word of God diligently.
Only one who reveres comparative mythology could make such a silly claim.
Genesis reveals truth, not myth. The Creator is not Parusha, Ptah or Gaia. The Creator described in Genesis is the Creator, not a signpost.
Nature aka creation aka the known universe does not teach good and evil. These are spiritual concepts taught by the Creator, not the creation.
The moral equivalency of killer tigers and killer humans is inescapable in a purely natural setting. Nature makes no moral distinctions.
Environmentalism is morally and intellectually empty. It lacks any ethical legitimacy. By defining humanity as the scourge of the earth it legitimizes barbarism.
Love, compassion, mercy, tenderness, et al are expressions of the Spirit of God. These refined sentiments are not natural in nature.
God provides His spirit as the means to transcend His creation and reside in Him in Spirit and in Truth.
The myth maker can not know this because he refuses to accept the truth behind the myth. God is the Truth and He is no myth.
(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)
(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)
I guess we disagree....I belive God is everywhere. You know something to the effect that the kingdom of heaven is within you (around you)....
Probablly the most condensending post I 've read in quite a while...
you are not going to win over many frinds on FR wiht that post. But, nonetheless...I agree with you and your post.
One in All and All in One
Who has spoke of "the material world" but you?
USMMA_83 mentioned laughter, battling and beauty.
Are these material?
What is "the material world" anyways? A human construct?
Jer 2:27 Saying to a stock, Thou art my father; and to a stone, Thou hast brought me forth: for they have turned their back unto me, and not their face: but in the time of their trouble they will say, Arise, and save us.
28 But where are thy gods that thou hast made thee? let them arise, if they can save thee in the time of thy trouble: for according to the number of thy cities are thy gods, O Judah.
(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)
Prager is the single most over-rated popular writer in the conservative movement. He dumbs down both Christianity and Judaism (not to mention secular studies) to fit his own personal comfort level.
it was the "mildly amusing" thing.........
;^)
Romans 1: 25
They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised. Amen.
Thanks for the ping!
I'm assuming you know that is not a Judeo-Christian description of God.
Yes, we are to take care of what God has given us. But I doubt that God would say to put farmers out of business in order to raise the water level a little bit in a lake so some fishies can live more comfortably. (I'm hoping that was not the kind of environmental stewardship you meant.)
We have to design systems suchy that market forces justly determine which property owners stay in the farming business versus which people go into the fisery habitat because that is what the market demands. Sometimes the same property owner would surely do both.
Designing, prototyping, and implementing such systems is what I do.
Damn straight!
They just don't get it. I mean if you take their view to the n-th conclusion, you'd notice that you will write God as G_d...which in itself is laughable. Our languge is the use of symbols to describe / name things around us. Even to call God, The Nameless, is in effect the same thing....It's a sad world where a person can't see God in everything. Especially in a newborns cry, or look. It boggles the mind.
I'm assuming you know that I don't care what your description of God is, or is not.
bump
It's OK to log timber, pour concrete and drill for oil.
I certainly care what your description of God is if it's going to prevent me from logging timber, pouring concrete or dilling oil.
True, I'm sure you don't care. I just wanted it clarified that your view is not the Judeo-Christian view of God.
In the instance I was thinking of, it had nothing to do with market forces. It had to do with farmers who needed the water in order to stay in business versus rabid environmentalists who wanted to deprive said farmers of the needed water in order to raise the level of a lake for the fishies.
Personally, I'm on the side of the farmers. We need the food they produce a lot more than to preserve fish we aren't allowed to catch and eat.
At the risk of babbling and with awareness of the inadequacy of words....
I don't possess Truth so I can not give it to anyone.
For me the first direct experience of God was so wonderful, I felt compelled to share with others.
The Truth was so obvious that I naively thought I could point it out through words and descriptions.
(When all I really felt was needed was to just point.)
It was, as would be expected, frustrating.
Logic and reason can only take one so far.
Analogies only hope to strike a chord within others.
These days I'm more relaxed. I weave what good I can into Life but leave the rest to God
I'm happy to share if someone is interested but eschew prosyletizing.
Who can say how or when God will come to someone?
I sure wasn't expecting that first touch of Grace. What a surprise!!
It's a sad world where a person can't see God in everything. Especially in a newborns cry, or look.
I'm smiling and experiencing a sense of kinship with you....
My first encounter lasted weeks and was characterized by awe, bliss,
gratitude and communion with my Creator.
But slowly the awareness and good feelings faded.
I spent many months trying to 'get back' to where I had been.
I did not understand the inherent necessity of change built into the world.
Nor did I recognize the fearful self-seeking foundation of myself .
I left the present to live in yearning for the past.
Then one day my wife and I were laying on the bed with our newborn.
I looked into his face and the clouds fell away. My God was here.
I began to cry with joy.
I saw that God had not left me, that I had left Him.
Worrying, grasping the past, seeking ego-aggrandizement and pleasure,
I had closed my eyes to the Presence.
I can't force God to come to me or anyone else.
There are things I can do to open myself to God's presense.
The Bible gives some good advice, "Be still and know I AM".
But stilling my mind requires work and dedication, with as much if not more unlearning than learning.
Christ calls upon the disciples to stay awake with him but they fall asleep.
Staying awake is for me difficult, I tend to get lost in a world of my making, in fantasy.
I leave the here and now where God is, focusing instead on a non-existent past or future.
At times I catch myself and bring my attention back to God.
But some of my ego traps are subtle and insidious. Difficult to see.
Sometimes life will force me to see that my ideas do not reflect reality,
I recognize my inadequacy, humble myself and then my mind and heart open to the Truth.
I listen to what those that have walked before me recommend and try to implement their advice.
In the end tho' it is my journey home. Not Buddha's, not Jesus' nor anyone elses.
If I am willing to listen God will guide me.
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