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The Flag Burning Amendment passed by the House
Freedom Forever Website ^ | 01/06/03 | Norman Scott Mills

Posted on 06/24/2005 4:07:49 AM PDT by freeform

The continually put forward Amendment to the Constitution, to outlaw the burning of the American Flag, should not be passed; even though I feel loathed and offended by the burning of the American Flag, because it symbolizes to me, the individual Freedom, Rights and Liberty that our forefathers fought and gave their lives for, it also represents to me the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, which to me are sacred documents. Many brave people have fought and died for our individual Rights, Liberty and Freedom, and what this Country represents under the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, with the American Flag as their symbol of pride in this Country. But I hope they gave their lives for what the American Flag represents to them, and not just for the symbol itself. This is the only Country on Earth, where we have the freedom and the Right to burn the symbol, the flag. Where people are not put in jail or killed for expressing their political dissent.

(Excerpt) Read more at freedom4ever.net ...


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: 109th; amendment; american; burning; constitution; flag; flagburning; turass
The continually put forward Amendment to the Constitution, to outlaw the burning of the American Flag, should not be passed; even though I feel loathed and offended by the burning of the American Flag, because it symbolizes to me, the individual Freedom, Rights and Liberty that our forefathers fought and gave their lives for, it also represents to me the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, which to me are sacred documents. Many brave people have fought and died for our individual Rights, Liberty and Freedom, and what this Country represents under the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, with the American Flag as their symbol of pride in this Country. But I hope they gave their lives for what the American Flag represents to them, and not just for the symbol itself. This is the only Country on Earth, where we have the freedom and the Right to burn the symbol, the flag. Where people are not put in jail or killed for expressing their political dissent.

I personally think that anyone who would burn our flag, should be given a one-way ticket, to any other Country on Earth. But we should not have political prisoners in this Country. I believe in freedom and liberty, more than the symbol that represents it. People should have the Right to express their political dissent; any way they so choose, so long as they do not hurt or violate anyone else's person, property, privacy or freedom. For me to set one symbol above all other symbols, by making it the only symbol that you can put people in jail for desiccating it, is tantamount to idolatry. You have to be willing to pay the price for freedom and liberty, and sometimes the price seems great, but the blessings of liberty are greater, to be free, and stay free, true freedom is worth any cost.

The American flag has been an honored symbol; the flag that we draped over the bodies and caskets of our honored dead. The American flag has been consecrated with their blood, in their fight for Family, Country, Liberty and Freedom. But burning the American flag can take nothing away from their Great Sacrifice; it is only the symbol of that Sacrifice, and not the Sacrifice itself. No one or nothing can ever take away from or Diminish, the Lives that have been given, and the Sacrifices that have been made, for Family, for Country, for Liberty and for Freedom.

But we should give Honor to our symbol of Liberty, long May She Wave, ore the Land of the Free, and the Home of the Brave. The Stars and Stripes of Freedom; the Flag of the United States of America, symbol of the Freest Nation on Earth, and the Sacrifices that have been made, and the Lives that have been given for that Liberty and Freedom. Do not let their Sacrifices be empty, or in vain. Let Freedom Ring from Sea to shining Sea, for now and forevermore.

1 posted on 06/24/2005 4:07:49 AM PDT by freeform
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To: freeform

The proposed ban on flag-burning is a purely symbolic, political act. Even if it did pass, it would likely be tested and struck down in either a liberal or conservative high court.

Gotta run now. I have to burn a Koran in the front yard before heading to work.


2 posted on 06/24/2005 4:19:49 AM PDT by get'emall (Howard Dean is nuts.)
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To: get'emall

I wonder exactly what this would cover. When I was a Boy Scout, we would have special ceremonies when our flag got too old or worn and would burn it then. I thought there were special conditions where burning a flag is appropriate.


3 posted on 06/24/2005 4:23:33 AM PDT by moog
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To: moog
When liberals are as outraged at flag burning as they are at Koran desecration, then we'll know their pose as champions of free speech is truly sincere.

(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)
4 posted on 06/24/2005 4:27:37 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: get'emall

I for one am glad that Congress and thereafter state legislatures will be spending their time (and taxpayer money) debating this issue.

I for one believe that outlawing the burning of the American Flag will help defeat terrorism, grow the economy, create jobs and lower crime.

I for one am also very sarcastic.


5 posted on 06/24/2005 4:29:18 AM PDT by Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit (“There is a law – a law of nature. Man is not the ruler.")
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To: goldstategop

When liberals are as outraged at flag burning as they are at Koran desecration, then we'll know their pose as champions of free speech is truly sincere.

I agree totally on that one. I would add the desecration of the Bible to that too.


6 posted on 06/24/2005 4:30:33 AM PDT by moog
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To: freeform

Gotta back this one, simply because the same people who burn our flag as a symbolic gesture are the ones who scream in outrage about perceived desecration of the Koran. Let's see some consistency!


7 posted on 06/24/2005 4:44:35 AM PDT by onevoter
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To: freeform

How Happy.

Now that our Boys-In-The-Balticway have passed this bit of feel-good, I can be comforted that none of the illegals and gangs storming over our borders will be able to burn this flag with impunity, or stop the government from taking a few city blocks, or even China from Unocal.


8 posted on 06/24/2005 4:45:37 AM PDT by OpusatFR (Try permaculture and get back to the Founders intent. Mr. Jefferson lives!)
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To: get'emall

The unrepentant Court that decided the symbolic act of desecration of our flag was somehow protected speech did so
after a godless Communist led his group of dissseased and mentally challenged sub-humans in the patriotic display
of petty vandalism and theft after their profane language and obscene hand gestures were not getting the attention they desired. A stolen flag was burned as the animals rutted about chanting the Red the Whtie ,the Blue ,we spit on you.And the demigods of the Federal Court decided Texas had no right to enact laws protecting the national flag.
And it is just a symbol of our country. The World Trade Center was just a symbol of our system of commerce. Those who get more exercised over attemt to protect our flag and
restore some measure of what once was.Than they get over the vile act --have No right-indeed their public displays
over the events of 9-11-01 are proven false because --after all it was just a symbolic gesture.If itis ok to desecrate our flag--then it ought be equally acceptable to
burn a cross on someones lawn.


9 posted on 06/24/2005 4:46:02 AM PDT by StonyBurk
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To: freeform

I can't believe that 77 democrats went along with the majority of the republicans to pass this protectionism that is going nowhere! Some dems and repubs didn't even vote on it.

here's a link to the vote record if anyone is interested:

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2005/roll296.xml


10 posted on 06/24/2005 4:48:40 AM PDT by Susannah ("May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't."--General George S. Patton)
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To: moog

As I posted to another- if desecration of the flag is so
sacrosanct-and your satire justified then it was equally ok
for the freaking Islamic Terrorists to bring down the World
Trade Center-because it was just a symbolic act. It is just as acceptable for someone to burn a cross on someones lawn
It's just a symbolic act. AH to h___ with it America was
destroyed back when the freakin' Commies shut down McCarthy.


11 posted on 06/24/2005 4:49:54 AM PDT by StonyBurk
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To: StonyBurk
"As I posted to another- if desecration of the flag is so sacrosanct-and your satire justified then it was equally ok for the freaking Islamic Terrorists to bring down the World Trade Center-because it was just a symbolic act. It is just as acceptable for someone to burn a cross on someones lawn It's just a symbolic act. AH to h___ with it America was destroyed back when the freakin' Commies shut down McCarthy"

I didn't satirize or make fun of the subject at all. Desecrating the flag in a political manner is probably more outrageous to me than anyone. I do bring up the question though, of when I was a boy scout, we would burn a flag in a special ceremony if it became too worn or ragged. Such was always a sobering event.

12 posted on 06/24/2005 4:59:09 AM PDT by moog
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To: StonyBurk; moog

I don't think that Moog's boyscout example was satire. I remember when my brother was in the boyscouts, and they "retired" their old, worn-out flags with ceremonial burning.

But regardless, there is a significant difference between burning a flag and planting a burning cross on someone else's property for purposes of intimidation. Also a HUGELY significant difference between burning a flag and the murder of thousands of people.

That said, I think flag burning as a form of protest is just stupid. However, I agree with the author of the article above, that if we pass an amendment elevating the status of the flag as a symbol like that, we are engaging in idolatry.


13 posted on 06/24/2005 4:59:34 AM PDT by Chiapet (Cthulhu for President: Why vote for a lesser evil?)
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To: Chiapet
I don't think that Moog's boyscout example was satire. I remember when my brother was in the boyscouts, and they "retired" their old, worn-out flags with ceremonial burning. But regardless, there is a significant difference between burning a flag and planting a burning cross on someone else's property for purposes of intimidation. Also a HUGELY significant difference between burning a flag and the murder of thousands of people. That said, I think flag burning as a form of protest is just stupid. However, I agree with the author of the article above, that if we pass an amendment elevating the status of the flag as a symbol like that, we are engaging in idolatry.

You're right. It was not meant to be satirical at all (I was wondering where that came from). I was merely wondering if such would cover special ceremonies too. We showed extreme respect for the flag in them and they were a very spiritual experience. Our Boy Scout leaders always scolded us if even a little of the flag touched the ground.

14 posted on 06/24/2005 5:04:54 AM PDT by moog
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To: freeform

Sometimes I just can't believe I'm living in the country in which I was born . You can burn my flag but don't denegrade a koran . Have the dims gone mad ? WARNING to flag burners , do not burn a flag in my presence , you can tread on supermans cape , you can steal the wind , you can pluck a thorn from an ole angry lion but don't mess around
with our countrys Flag , the symbol for which our heros fought and died for , preserving the rights of even the lowest forms of existance like flag burners .


15 posted on 06/24/2005 5:11:23 AM PDT by lionheart 247365 (( I.S.L.A.M. ; ) Islam's Spiritual Leaders Advocate Murder .. .. .. ))
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To: freeform

What a week. I can stand outside and burn the flag as they take my land.


16 posted on 06/24/2005 5:13:22 AM PDT by Fawn
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To: freeform
No need for a flag burning amendment -- it is protected speech.

Simply pass a law saying that any subsequent reaction by bystanders to the flag burning scumbag is protected "speech" also.

17 posted on 06/24/2005 5:14:09 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: robertpaulsen

I cant wait until these people who are against a flag Amendment state their distaste with outlawing guns and abandonment of the 2nd Amendment.

They state that they are agaisnt banning free speech by stopping the flag burners, but they do not wish to protect the Right to bare arms in such a vigorous way.


18 posted on 06/24/2005 5:24:28 AM PDT by sgtbono2002
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To: freeform

Talk about fiddling while Rome burns...these clowns better get on the stick or NONE of them will be re-elected next year. Conservatives are WAY past the flag-burning issue and are sick about the illegal alien invasion, the over-throwing of our private property rights by this out-of-control SCOTUS, and oil at $60/bbl. How about doing some REAL work on those issues, Congressmen?


19 posted on 06/24/2005 5:27:40 AM PDT by kittymyrib
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To: kittymyrib

AMEN! Is this the most important issue these politicians have to work on right now? This is nothing but a big smokescreen to get attention away from the fact that nothing else is getting done & that it's business as usual in Washington.

The majority of people voted for the Republicans to "do their thang" & that doesn't include reaching across the aisle all the time & never making the Dims reach back.

We always give in at the end because the Liberals know how to throw better tantrums.


20 posted on 06/24/2005 5:51:32 AM PDT by alicewonders
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To: freeform

I believe we should stop referring to this as a flag burning amendment. Under this wording,

"The Congress shall have power to prohibit the physical desecration of the flag of the United States,"

Congress would have wide leeway to name a number of different activities beyond burning to be desecration. They could make it illegal to have it raised at night unilluminated or make it illegal for it be out in the rain. Both are currently part of the US Flag code.
Pity the guy who puts in some overtime and finds the police on his doorstep when he arrives home after dark.


21 posted on 06/24/2005 6:06:17 AM PDT by NC28203
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To: freeform

A law that can’t be enforced is a bad law, and this is one of them. Our congress crooks should be spending their time on border problems and other items of physical importance rather than issues born from emotion.

And yes, I love my flag.


22 posted on 06/24/2005 6:10:40 AM PDT by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
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To: alicewonders

We always give in at the end because the Liberals know how to throw better tantrums.

Now it seems everyone is in on doing just that--throwing tantrums.


23 posted on 06/24/2005 6:13:27 AM PDT by moog
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To: freeform

Congress fiddles, while Rome burns. Blackbird.


24 posted on 06/24/2005 7:08:48 AM PDT by BlackbirdSST
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To: NC28203
WRT #21, that is the liberal straw-man to take a knock at the Flag desecration amendment. The liberals say if you can't ban all sorts of mistreatment then we shouldn't be able to ban any. Pure BS and a very weak argument indeed.
25 posted on 06/24/2005 12:48:41 PM PDT by Final Authority
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To: Final Authority

>>>WRT #21, that is the liberal straw-man to take a knock at the Flag desecration amendment. The liberals say if you can't ban all sorts of mistreatment then we shouldn't be able to ban any. Pure BS and a very weak argument indeed.

That wasn't my argument against the amendment. I was just merely pointing out that it is not specifically a flag burning amendment as desecration has yet to be defined. My argument against this amenendment is based on free speech grounds.


26 posted on 06/24/2005 12:54:08 PM PDT by NC28203
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To: NC28203

Free speech grounds is an argument when other arguments don't sell. There are countless cases where free speech is controlled or sanctioned by the government with penalties for misusing ones free speech. The CFR bill reluctantly signed by GWB (McCain Feingold) is an affront to free speech but it does not eliminate speech in that it only forces accommodations for the general benefit of the election process (BS but that is how McCain sold it). The USSC apparently saw it similarly. Outlawing flag burning does not outlaw speech, it requires that one use other methods to get their anti-American and liberal/socialist/communist views on the front page.


27 posted on 06/24/2005 1:07:44 PM PDT by Final Authority
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To: moog
You are correct. Apparently, it is a crime only if the intent behind burning the flag is not in favor.

In other words, thoughtcrime.

28 posted on 06/24/2005 1:09:00 PM PDT by lugsoul ("She talks and she laughs." - Tom DeLay)
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To: lugsoul

You are correct. Apparently, it is a crime only if the intent behind burning the flag is not in favor.
In other words, thoughtcrime.

Oh boy, that opens up a whole new kettle of worms.


29 posted on 06/24/2005 1:12:30 PM PDT by moog
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To: Fawn

What a week. I can stand outside and burn the flag as they take my land.

Do you have a Burn Permit, and a Fire Certified Burn Barrel?


30 posted on 06/24/2005 1:18:29 PM PDT by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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