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Surviving a Nuclear Attack on Washington, D.C.
National Journal ^ | June 24th 2005 | By Sydney J. Freedberg Jr.

Posted on 06/24/2005 10:54:52 AM PDT by ExSoldier

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To: ExSoldier
For later.

L

101 posted on 06/24/2005 12:27:44 PM PDT by Lurker (Remember the Beirut Bombing; 243 dead Marines. The House of Assad and Hezbollah did it..)
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To: Centurion2000
As somebody already mentioned: A silver lining to the mushroom cloud. But have you ever heard of FEMA and the infamous Executive Orders to be triggered ('scuse the pun) in such a case? All those EO's were linked together by Clinton. It's a nightmare.
102 posted on 06/24/2005 12:28:25 PM PDT by ExSoldier (Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.)
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To: ExSoldier

And yet, real estate values in DC continue to soar through the stratosphere. What's your typical $1,000,000 slum rehab going to be worth when the big dirty one goes off? Obviously that's going to occasion a government bail out which we will be paying off inperpetuity.

Assuming that real estate markets are somewhat rational, I guess that means that in a pre 9/11 world, these properties would be worth $3,000,000.


103 posted on 06/24/2005 12:28:58 PM PDT by Moosilauke
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To: Dubyous
I think you forgot about the guide at the Smithsonian...the groundskeeper at the Vietnam Memorial...the elementary school field trip at the Lincoln Memorial...

You would consider their incineration a favor, eh?


True, there are a lot of innocents that would die although I really wish that on no one, be they Republican or Democrat and so on. I think on a side notw, we need to take into consideration the time of the attack, you would take out more people in the daytime when they are at work, in rush hour, etc., than at night when everyone is at home. I know it is morbid to think about but we need to consider that point too.
104 posted on 06/24/2005 12:30:16 PM PDT by Nowhere Man (Lutheran, Conservative, Neo-Victorian/Edwardian, Michael Savage in '08! - DeCAFTA-nate CAFTA!)
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To: shellshocked
Who wants D.C. to survive?

Well, since I and a lot of freepers have family either in or near there, I'd say your suggestion is a little bit extreme....

105 posted on 06/24/2005 12:30:29 PM PDT by ExSoldier (Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.)
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To: ExSoldier
I don't think the terrorists give a damn about first responders. Their objective is to start by killing four million Americans. They won't waste a perfectly good nuke on a site already struck. Law of Diminishing Returns.

_________________You're right about this. I didn't think it though. The hitting of first responders is a technique used by Palestinians - a low tech solution to cause maximum terror. It doesn't apply. _____________________

If this happens it'll be different cities across the country and at crucial choke points like the mouth of the Mississippi River or in hub cities for food and fuel distribution.

_________________ You're right here too. ____________________

Have you heard of the urban legend about the allegedly lost suitcase nukes supposed to be already secreted here on US Soil during the cold war era? _____________________I've heard that myth, but my larger concern is some stealth enemy would sell the nukes to Osama to take us out for their own reasons... My first guess would be a country that hated us, felt threatened by us, and didn't want to be nuked in retaliation - like Iran. Or as you say, maybe some retired KGB officer______________- If the Jihadis buy those from some retired KGB officer.....

106 posted on 06/24/2005 12:33:28 PM PDT by GOPJ (Deep Throat(s) -- top level FBI officials playing cub reporters for suckers.)
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To: GRRRRR
Ammo, never can have enough of it...

So the ammo is for your neighbors that didn't prepare and then show up after the event, planning to help themselves to your supplies? And for agents of the state, which is also inadequately prepared and sees the imminent value of your thoughtfully acquired supplies?

If they come for your stuff, do not resist to the death, bro! But you really should not advertise that you prepare and think and such. Everybody will remember your words when their crisis appears.

107 posted on 06/24/2005 12:34:57 PM PDT by Lester Moore (islam's allah is Satan and is NOT the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.)
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To: ExSoldier

"I'd say your suggestion is a little bit extreme...."

So is your response. Try looking up Hyperbole. I was using it.


108 posted on 06/24/2005 12:37:51 PM PDT by shellshocked (BLOAT, Cache, Take Names!!!)
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To: texgal

I worked off a Mormon list so I think we're square on the food. I didn't do the full year supply, if it gets that bad we'll be building a cabin in the forest. You're never as ready as you could be, but I'm always thinking about ways to upgrade our preparations.


109 posted on 06/24/2005 12:37:55 PM PDT by nina0113
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To: backtothestreets
Months before 9-11 my local newspaper printed a letter to the editor in which I suggested relocating our nations capital to the heartland for protective and political reasons. The heartland is the demographic center of our nation and would be the easiest to protect.

I know that has been done in history, even before nukes because with the capital further inland, it would take an enemy a much longer time to march to it plus give the hopes to the defenders where they can stop the invasion before it gets to the capital. It's amazing that during the Civil War, the Confederates gotten close enough to DC that they could have taken it if the "Army of the Potomac" failed. I wonder what the plan is if DC is ever taken out? Again, I did read a "what-if" story where the US moved the capital to Columbus, Ohio after a Confederate Victory that took Washignton DC. I like to play an apocalyptic role playing game called "Twilight: 2000" where the government split into two factions after a nuclear war with the USSR, CivGov (Civillian Government - made up of a rump Congress) in Omaha, Nebraska and MilGov (Military Government - Joint Chiefs of Staff) in Colorado Springs. That's a good thought where an emergency capital would be set up. I know in the past, we had shelters for Congress and so on at Greenbrier Resort in West Virginia, Mt. Weather in Maryland somewhere and there was talk of a "Site R" in Pennsylvania somewhere near Gettysburg, IIRC.
110 posted on 06/24/2005 12:39:49 PM PDT by Nowhere Man (Lutheran, Conservative, Neo-Victorian/Edwardian, Michael Savage in '08! - DeCAFTA-nate CAFTA!)
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To: usurper
I still think it is stupid to house all of our national agencies headquarters in one small city.

Hmmm, that reminds me, when the Whites ruled South Africa, I think they had "three capitals," Capetown, Johannesburg, and Blomfontein (near Pretoria, IIRC) where one was legislative, executive and judicial respectively. I don't know if that is still true in today's South Africa though.
111 posted on 06/24/2005 12:44:13 PM PDT by Nowhere Man (Lutheran, Conservative, Neo-Victorian/Edwardian, Michael Savage in '08! - DeCAFTA-nate CAFTA!)
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To: Blzbba

Quote: "The offices of the Internal Revenue Service — less than a quarter-mile west from ground zero — ... collapse"
Well, THERE'S a silver lining to the mushroom cloud.



Isn't the ACLU offices right around there also???


112 posted on 06/24/2005 12:46:12 PM PDT by superiorslots (Free Traitors are communist China's modern day "Useful Idiots")
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To: nina0113

Don't know how to post a link but go to www.emergency essentials.com they've got some fairly priced items that I purchase regularly and use from time to time to rotate the supply. Their soups are really good & we've found that our Yorkies like their TVP (textured vegetable protien). It's flavored like meat and keeps much, much longer than dog food. God bless and keep you all safe.


113 posted on 06/24/2005 12:47:25 PM PDT by texgal (end no-fault divorce laws return DUE PROCESS & EQUAL PROTECTION to ALL citizens))
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To: shellshocked
Try looking up Hyperbole. I was using it.

You mean HyperBULL. Probably 30% of the responses on this thread showed exactly the same thing. It's tiresome and you could have realized it, but no, you had to put in your .02 cents. Some of the responses are remotely amusing, like silver lining to the mushroom cloud but when you say the same tired one liner as thirty other posters and you KNOW you're doing so.....it gets old. What might you say about the content of this story? I'm interested in that! Or don't you have anything to contribute to a substantive discussion?

114 posted on 06/24/2005 12:50:56 PM PDT by ExSoldier (Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.)
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To: ExSoldier

"Well according to what I was taught at the US Army's school for Nuclear, Biological and Chemical Warfare, this is true, but they can be brought back with some maintenance upgrades by a trained technician."

Wouldn't you also need things like bomb-grade uranium or plutonium? It's not like you can get that stuff at Wal-Mart or Home Depot...


115 posted on 06/24/2005 12:52:19 PM PDT by BeHoldAPaleHorse
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To: BeHoldAPaleHorse
Wouldn't you also need things like bomb-grade uranium or plutonium?

A suitcase nuke is self contained. It already has the fissionable material (probably Uranium 235) to go boom! But the other components degrade over time, the technician would be addressing this in order to bring the device online for a possible detonation. The uranium doesn't go bad.

116 posted on 06/24/2005 12:56:00 PM PDT by ExSoldier (Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.)
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To: Pete'sWife
Read "War Day" by Whitley Streiber and James Kunetka.

Good book. Had some very anti Regan points, but if you ignore those pages it is very good. I personally love the lion living in the old apartment building.

117 posted on 06/24/2005 12:58:28 PM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: shellshocked
Who wants D.C. to survive?

Well, I am in favor.

Just how much of America would you like to see destroyed? How many Americans killed?

118 posted on 06/24/2005 1:00:44 PM PDT by Doe Eyes
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To: GOPJ
If you had 4 nukes here is what a smart terrorist would do. Put them on boats and sail three of them into ports. A port in Washington, New York and Los Angeles. The reason to be in a port is because they have no way to check your cargo until your already in port and well within range of a nuke. The forth you attempt to sneak into Chicago in between O'Hare and the loop in an attempt to shut down many major expressways and the busiest airport. Not to mention Chicago is a cross roads for most of the country. An attack like that would immediately through us into the largest depression we've ever seen. Hell ill bet democracy doesn't survive an attack like that.

However most likely a terrorist would only have one shitty bomb and they'd use it against, Tel Aviv, London, New York.

In many ways a New York attack would be worse than DC.
119 posted on 06/24/2005 1:02:10 PM PDT by RHINO369
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To: Tall_Texan

You said what we daren't...


120 posted on 06/24/2005 1:07:30 PM PDT by null and void (No man's life, liberty, or property are safe as long as court is in session)
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To: RHINO369
Bin Laden knows that the trick is to destroy our economy, bet he's irked that it didn't work last time. I doubt it would work now even with a nuke, alot of post 9/11 redundancy built into the markets, disaster recovery sites, etc. The trading houses took a big lesson from the fate of Cantor Fitzgerald.
121 posted on 06/24/2005 1:08:40 PM PDT by conservativewasp (Liberals lie for sport and hate their country.)
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To: shellshocked
"Who wants D.C. to survive? It is a dangerous cancer that a Chinese nuke would be doing us a favor."

Ummmmmm.....

Some of us live (and work) here in the Washington, DC area.

And may I remind you that if Washington, DC is a "dangerous cancer", a good part of the reason is due to elected officials.

Those elect6ed officials are, for the most part, elected by people who live a long way from Washington, DC.

122 posted on 06/24/2005 1:11:27 PM PDT by chs68
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To: ExSoldier

Good informative email.

It's a shame to read some of the comments on this thread. I think some people, in their wish for the demise of DC, have forgotten that the multitude of lawyers, politicians, and associated bloodsuckers are intermixed with human beings in that town.


123 posted on 06/24/2005 1:11:53 PM PDT by Textide
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To: chs68

"Those elect6ed officials are, for the most part, elected by people who live a long way from Washington, DC."


yeah, it is all OUR fault that they can't seem to stay away from corruption. /sarcasm


124 posted on 06/24/2005 1:15:45 PM PDT by shellshocked (BLOAT, Cache, Take Names!!!)
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To: conservativewasp

You dont need to stop the stock market to destroy the economy. There are over 10 million people who live in or near Chicago and every single one of them, including me is packing up and leaving after the two weeks are up. Say goodbuy to companys like Motorola, Boeing, and countless others who are based near Chicago, whos employess are dead or gone, and their offices and plants are radioactive. Not to mention that cash is only worth cash if you believe that the US government supports the dollar. The first thing i do if their is a nuke attack in a US that i dont like in is go to the bank and take out every cent i can. (im 19 and a college student so its only like 4K). Losing 4 of the biggests cities would ruin the economy. We'd survive but many would starve because of transportation problems.


125 posted on 06/24/2005 1:19:07 PM PDT by RHINO369
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To: backtothestreets
A new city could be designed to limit ground attacks, like the Oklahoma City bombing, limits air strikes, and any possibility of an attack from sea. We've the best technology on the planet, and if applied with foresight, we can make a capital that can protect the nation from the turmoil that would ensue if the seat of our government were struck.

Make all transportation within the new city public transit, set airports at least 25 miles from the city with high speed rail connections into the city. Build government building with low profiles that would be less susceptible to nuclear attack. Forbid all air traffic over the city. These are just suggestions, but they would assure a much higher degree of protection then we can give our country now.

Build it in canyon lands with parts broken up into different canyons. Connect through the common river cuts and cross connect with tunnels with frequent bends.

Carve the really critical stuff deep into isolated redundant bedrock chambers...

126 posted on 06/24/2005 1:20:06 PM PDT by null and void (No man's life, liberty, or property are safe as long as court is in session)
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To: ExSoldier; Alas Babylon!

He's talkin' 'bout you...


127 posted on 06/24/2005 1:21:39 PM PDT by null and void (No man's life, liberty, or property are safe as long as court is in session)
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To: backtothestreets
Months before 9-11 my local newspaper printed a letter to the editor in which I suggested relocating our nations capital to the heartland for protective and political reasons. The heartland is the demographic center of our nation and would be the easiest to protect.

My wife, the lovely Terabyte here on FR, and I have been joking about moving the nation's capitol to somewhere in the Midwest, maybe where Kansas, Missouri, and Nebraska intersect. It's a fun exercise.

128 posted on 06/24/2005 1:21:41 PM PDT by Terabitten
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To: ExSoldier

bump


129 posted on 06/24/2005 1:23:06 PM PDT by Yasotay
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To: GOPJ
Fixed your typo:

When people feel they have some control over their fate, they're less likely to panic depend on the government.

130 posted on 06/24/2005 1:23:39 PM PDT by null and void (No man's life, liberty, or property are safe as long as court is in session)
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To: ExSoldier
I am not a good typist but I had to respond to this one, forgive the mistakes please, my blood is boiling thinking about this.

I'm an ex-nuclear submarine sailor. Nuclear hazards are just like any other hazard, they can be dealt with.

The real problems are in the aftermath. Local governments won't fail but they will strain. Prices for all foods will skyrocket. Building material prices will go through the roof. None of that will be nearly as life changing as the effect that that one explosion will have on the electorate.

We will all suddenly realize how vulnerable we are to this kind of an attack. We will all have friends or relatives who were killed in the initial explosion or died later from radiation poisoning. We will be an angry country. We will have elections in a short time after the bomb because many of our national elected officials will have been vaporized or succumb to radiation sickness.

When the new elections happen we won't be thinking about social security, we won't be thinking about minimum wages we will have one thing on our collective minds. Kill the people who did this to us, keep them from ever being able to do it again.

You may think that the idea of nuking Muslim cities of 100,000 or more might sound far fetched but I would imagine that the anger in the country will allow nothing else. Can you imagine electing someone who wants to negotiate with the terrorists who would do such a thing. Can you imagine watching someone die for a month who knew they were doomed. What if were your parents and brother and sister, how much negotiating are you going to want to do? Even good Christians have their limits. Some will not call it revenge but protection.

If you think that the Tridents won't work you are un-informed. They will do exactly as they are designed. The Arab world does not have near the support structure that we have here. There will be a much higher kill ratio there than here. There will be 10's or perhaps 100's of times more fallout there and it will kill a lot more than the initial blast. There won't be a few hundred thousand deaths but perhaps a few hundred million deaths. The Arab world will indeed return to the stone age. After one generation there will be little of educated Arabs left in the world outside of the west. What education there is will be run by Americans and there will be no Islam taught, it will be outlawed. There will be no more money to fund terrorism from oil, the US will own the oilfields and rule what is left of the Middle East. Many western Arabs will forsake Islam to protect their lives.

A bomb in DC will scar DC for a long time but it will be the death of Islam.

If the Arab world knew that we had no choice other than the kind of massive retaliation that will follow a nuclear strike on our soil they might do all they can to stop the terrorist before they commit mass suicide.
131 posted on 06/24/2005 1:27:26 PM PDT by JAKraig (Joseph Kraig)
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To: ExSoldier; JockoManning

Dear Heart JM,

Perhaps God will intensify discernment and guidance when you read the above.

Blessings,


132 posted on 06/24/2005 1:32:23 PM PDT by Quix (LOVE NEVER FAILS.)
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To: JAKraig
Hmmm. might be an acceptable trade. D.C. for the elimination of Islam?
133 posted on 06/24/2005 1:33:01 PM PDT by null and void (No man's life, liberty, or property are safe as long as court is in session)
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To: lilylangtree

True. The satanic dictator puppet masers would do it much more directly until the AC took over the job for all such.


134 posted on 06/24/2005 1:33:25 PM PDT by Quix (LOVE NEVER FAILS.)
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To: TXnMA

Have long thought of such and the arrogance of our leaders and people who think we are immune.

Have wished we were like Taipei--keep most of such in deep tunnels with only a small percentage on rotating displays. Perhaps in deep salt mines in Kansas?

But we won't. And lots will be lost unless God chooses to save some of the glorified trash.


135 posted on 06/24/2005 1:34:35 PM PDT by Quix (LOVE NEVER FAILS.)
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To: Lexington Green

There is that aspect! Politicians terminally fired in more ways than one.


136 posted on 06/24/2005 1:35:09 PM PDT by Quix (LOVE NEVER FAILS.)
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To: Tall_Texan

Plenty of sad reason for the starting over perspective.


137 posted on 06/24/2005 1:35:41 PM PDT by Quix (LOVE NEVER FAILS.)
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To: Tall_Texan

Thankfully, God will be doing that--evidently in our lifetime.


138 posted on 06/24/2005 1:36:03 PM PDT by Quix (LOVE NEVER FAILS.)
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To: Jonathan

You are likely correct. But it won't happen.


139 posted on 06/24/2005 1:36:57 PM PDT by Quix (LOVE NEVER FAILS.)
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To: Dubyous
Almost feels like someone's preparing us for an inevitability they know can't be stopped.

Been wondering how long it would take for how many others to notice. Seems to me it's been going on increasingly for several years and especially the last several months.

140 posted on 06/24/2005 1:37:59 PM PDT by Quix (LOVE NEVER FAILS.)
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To: Dubyous

Though it's not "that can't be stopped."

It's

that's been scheduled, ordered by the puppet masters.

They figure they have to scare us into the world government scheme.

They also want only about 500,000,000 total world population to make governing easier.


141 posted on 06/24/2005 1:38:58 PM PDT by Quix (LOVE NEVER FAILS.)
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To: JAKraig

I think Hillary would survive a nuclear blast.


142 posted on 06/24/2005 1:41:25 PM PDT by JZelle
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To: TXnMA
I would grieve the loss of the Smithsonian, the Archives, and the Library of Congress...

Me too, I suppose; those would be the upper limits of my grief.

If any town in the United States ever deserved it . . . . .

143 posted on 06/24/2005 1:41:43 PM PDT by Hank Rearden (Never allow anyone who could only get a government job attempt to tell you how to run your life.)
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To: RHINO369
There are over 10 million people who live in or near Chicago and every single one of them, including me is packing up and leaving after the two weeks are up. Say goodby to companies like Motorola, Boeing, and countless others who are based near Chicago, whose employees are dead or gone, and their offices and plants are radioactive. Not to mention that cash is only worth cash if you believe that the US government supports the dollar. The first thing i do if their is a nuke attack in a US that I don't like in is go to the bank and take out every cent I can. (im 19 and a college student so its only like 4K). Losing 4 of the biggest cities would ruin the economy. We'd survive but many would starve because of transportation problems.

The cleanup alone from one nuke in Chicago could bankrupt the nation. Get some food, some water, and head for a spot with a friend who owns a farm. The other option is for churches to network -- but they don't even do that in Hurricane disasters. I've often seen Churches in non-evacuation zones sitting empty while their elderly members sit in impersonal high school gyms. Something has to give in this "me first, me only" country. I hate to think the only time we'll come together is when we starve together after an attack.

144 posted on 06/24/2005 1:44:17 PM PDT by GOPJ (Deep Throat(s) -- top level FBI officials playing cub reporters for suckers.)
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To: JZelle

Yeah. She has a powerfull ally that's used to flames...


145 posted on 06/24/2005 1:45:27 PM PDT by null and void (No man's life, liberty, or property are safe as long as court is in session)
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To: Quix
yes, I've noticed that too...

Seems to me it's been going on increasingly for several years and especially the last several months.

146 posted on 06/24/2005 1:45:35 PM PDT by GOPJ (Deep Throat(s) -- top level FBI officials playing cub reporters for suckers.)
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To: RHINO369

True to a limited extent. Alot of people outside the immediate fallout areas will stay, others will return. The most likely scenerio seems to be a small nuke, with a relatively small area rendered level or uninhabitable for long. The companies you mention have other facilities and most large companies also now have at least limited redundency in their data systems. Will it cause a depression, probably, will it sink us? No way. We can survive multiple hits on major cities.


147 posted on 06/24/2005 1:46:03 PM PDT by conservativewasp (Liberals lie for sport and hate their country.)
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To: ExSoldier

Yeah, but the fissionable material decays (or the impurities decay) into isotopes that eat neutrons.


148 posted on 06/24/2005 1:51:20 PM PDT by BeHoldAPaleHorse
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To: null and void
Good one. You made it better!!! Thanks.

Fixed your typo: When people feel they have some control over their fate, they're less likely to depend on the government.

149 posted on 06/24/2005 1:52:45 PM PDT by GOPJ (Deep Throat(s) -- top level FBI officials playing cub reporters for suckers.)
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To: JZelle

I think Hillary would survive a nuclear blast.


What a shame!


150 posted on 06/24/2005 1:55:27 PM PDT by JAKraig (Joseph Kraig)
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