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Too Good to Play
fox news ^ | June 23, 2005

Posted on 06/25/2005 6:51:06 AM PDT by kiki04

Too Good to Play Thursday, June 23, 2005 A team of 11- and 12-year-old baseball players has been kicked out of its league — for being too good. Earlier this month, the Stars of Columbus, Ohio, were taken off the Canal Winchester Joint Recreation District's (search) schedule, and their $150 entry fee was refunded, reports The Columbus Dispatch. The 14 boys only joined the suburban league in early May, but since then had creamed every other team that faced them — 18-0, 13-0, 24-0, 10-2 and 17-6. "I called up the league office and said, 'No way are we going to play them,'" Terry Morris, who coaches another team in the division, told The Dispatch. "I wasn't going to subject my players to that." Pretty soon, all scheduled games were canceled, and the Stars found themselves orphaned. "I don't think it's fair," said Stars catcher and pitcher Michael Allston, who at 12 stands 5-foot-8. "We always played our best, and we were just winning games." "

[Another] team told us they didn't want their boys' self-esteem battered," said Trina Cochran, mother of 11-year-old Stars player Mario Cochran. "Our boys went into this with a good attitude," said Darla Perry, whose son R.J., 11, weighs 155 pounds. "It's turned into a disaster." Opponents' parents charged that the Stars' players were older than they claimed to be and that they were actually an "all-star" team culled from across Columbus. In return, the Stars' parents began bringing birth certificates to games, as well as documents showing that all but one of the boys lived in the same ZIP code. League officials and other teams' coaches are unrepentant. "They were just beating the rec kids up," said Michael Mirones, the league's board chairman. "It's no fun for the kids that are losing."

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: baseball; children; games; selfesteem
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To: MikeinIraq

In my sport, karate, you don't go easier on an opponent because you're ahead on points or because your opponent looks hurt. Instead, you go harder because you can smell the blood in the water. I always knew I didn't like baseball, and now I know why.


51 posted on 06/25/2005 11:54:54 AM PDT by Melas (Lives in state of disbelief)
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To: Melas

Karate to baseball is like railroad spikes and twist ties....

they are completely different, except they are competitions.....

Having been on either end of scores similiar to those in the story, they are NO FUN to be on the losing side. Sure that is a lesson, but you really start to resent it when some kid is stealing 2nd, falls down ON PURPOSE to get into a rundown, just so you can score your 26th run. That play is something you do when you are desperate to score a run.

This story, along with Little League baseball and baseball leagues with kids that age are replete with HORRIBLE sportsmanship and disrespect.

tell me, do you disrespect your opponent when you have kicked the crap out of them in Karate?


52 posted on 06/25/2005 11:59:40 AM PDT by MikefromOhio (If the GOP can't come up with someone better than Tancredo, THEY ARE in a world of hurt.)
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To: kiki04
OH NO! Someone call the WAAAAAAAAMBULANCE!!!!

Image hosted by Photobucket.com

53 posted on 06/25/2005 12:02:26 PM PDT by Pelayo
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To: MikeinIraq

I coached a Pinto(8-9 yr. old) team in '96. One team got the cream of the crop among the 9 year olds and the rest of us had to make do with what was left. Needless to say, the all-star team went unbeaten, then, to add insult to injury, the coach plucked the few talented players from the rest of the teams to go to All-Stars.

On the bright side, I had the nicest, most understanding parents in the league. A couple of dads helped out enormously as assistant coaches, and the mom's were all gorgeous hotties, including one who I ran into a few months later and asked me on a date. ;^)


54 posted on 06/25/2005 12:02:42 PM PDT by ABG(anybody but Gore) (Ketchup Boy is the George Costanza of the US Senate)
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To: ABG(anybody but Gore)

you see, there you go.

The league I was in in Westerville was a bit like that, except the teams were a bit more even.

but you will still have games like that. Asking for consistency out of 8 or 9 yr olds is asking for A LOT when it comes to baseball...


55 posted on 06/25/2005 12:15:29 PM PDT by MikefromOhio (If the GOP can't come up with someone better than Tancredo, THEY ARE in a world of hurt.)
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To: kiki04
SO when are they going to kick the Yankees out of MLB. Don't you think they've won enough World Series titles already?

Memo to Bill Belichick. You get one more SB ring and then you and your team are OUTTA HERE! Time to give Peyton Manning and the Colts a fighting chance.

56 posted on 06/25/2005 12:19:52 PM PDT by SamAdams76 (Old enough to know better, still too young to care)
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To: kiki04

So they are the winners by default then, right?


57 posted on 06/25/2005 12:21:39 PM PDT by Howlin
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To: MikeinIraq
Sorry.

No kids.

But, in my previous life I was a bully.

58 posted on 06/25/2005 12:22:18 PM PDT by HIDEK6
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To: Melas; MikeinIraq
The idea behind a sport is to win by the largest margin possible.

When you're dealing with young kids, it's more important to learn how to play the game, and good sportsmanship. It's not about running up the score on inferior competition.

Charles H. did not posit a theory, he stated a fact. When I was playing Little League and Babe Ruth some 40 years ago (shudder), there were no rec leagues, or travel leagues. The closest thing I got to a rec league was when I was in 6th grade, and it was called Peanut League.

It was a league that required that everybody plays at least half the game. This was about the only time that I played on an excellent team, we went undefeated and won our league's championship. When we were leading by a sizable margin, we quit stealing bases, and any trash talking earned a place on the bench next to the coach.

What has been lost in this discussion by many of you (not you, Mike) is the role of good sportsmanship in youth sports. Far too many parents, living through their kids, harbor a notion that their child will hit the big payday by making it professionally.

From my experience, most of you out there have absolutely no clue as to the great chasm between being a great amateur and a mediocre professional. I think I do have that clue, as I spent my college years closely observing many fine athletes, while getting to know them as individuals and the sacrifice and effort they made to progress beyond the collegiate level.

For myself, I was a pretty good bowler, averaging 200+ for 25 years, winning several city and state championships. Even though I was in the top 2% of the bowlers where I lived (El Paso), the best 5 in the city would routinely get smacked whenever the PBA would come to town. I had several offers of sponsorship to try the PBA tour, and I politely refused, because I knew the change in lifestyle that would entail. It's not that I didn't have confidence in my ability, but I knew that it would require 10-12 hours of practice each day, and major investments in equipment and coaching.

The point I'm trying to make is that these parents would be far better off easing up on their kids, and spend more time on teaching them how to play and enjoy the game, instead of the incessant focus on winning. If their kids are that talented, the cream will still rise to the top.

59 posted on 06/25/2005 12:31:22 PM PDT by Night Hides Not
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To: SamAdams76
C'mon Sam, I usually appreciate your posts, but comparing youth leagues to professional sports is like comparing artichokes to pomegranites.

BTW, the Yankees haven't won this century, and they don't look like a contender now. However, the Yankees don't try to steal bases when they're up by 10 runs, either.

60 posted on 06/25/2005 12:36:22 PM PDT by Night Hides Not
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To: Night Hides Not

Hell man, I was an amatuer figher. No one understand the chasm between a talented amatuer and mediocre professional as well we do.


61 posted on 06/25/2005 2:26:49 PM PDT by Melas (Lives in state of disbelief)
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To: Melas

I'll bet!!! LOL!


62 posted on 06/25/2005 3:04:19 PM PDT by Night Hides Not
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To: Night Hides Not
It's an experience when you go up against an amatuer that has what it takes to be a pro. I did it once against a guy named Clarke Sowle in Dever, CO. I still remember it to this day. I'd lost fights before, but they were always fights. This was a beating, with no response. My instructor eventually had me bow out, and at that particular tournament everyone who faced him after me bowed out without fighting. Lucky me was just first.

He was just at a completely different level than I was, or anyone I'd ever even seen. He eventually went to Thailand to fight for money, and last I heard was money-making shootfighter in Japan.

63 posted on 06/25/2005 3:24:37 PM PDT by Melas (Lives in state of disbelief)
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To: Night Hides Not
"... you disrespect the game of baseball .."

Baseball is only my game one night a year, from the nosebleed section behind home plate and perhaps largely for the hot dogs.

But the only reason I see for letting off of the gas when you are ahead is to save the car, tires, or gas.

The only reason I see for letting off the gas when you are behind is none of the above 'cause at that point it only matters if you can convince the other guy that you were conserving the car. And that's barely acceptable.

64 posted on 06/25/2005 5:49:41 PM PDT by norton (build a wall and post the rules at the gate)
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To: kiki04
Terry Morris, who coaches another team in the division, told The Dispatch. "I wasn't going to subject my players to that."

What an incredible pussy metrosexual democrat.

65 posted on 06/25/2005 5:54:37 PM PDT by tomkat
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To: MikeinIraq
... so they practice their asses off in the interim, pick the little bastards off next time, then steal their girlfriends after the game !


66 posted on 06/25/2005 5:58:02 PM PDT by tomkat
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To: MikeinIraq
I'll accept your sources on the genesis of this particular team, 155 lb 11 year olds are not real common and any infraction of league rules should be addressed. But the only infraction cited in the article is by innuendo.
But

.."If you are smacking a team 20-0, even the players in the Major Leagues back off, and THAT is a business."

Refers better to a business than to kids or countries, victory today is total.
Compromise is a really good thing - in business.
Otherwise, if you can add a couple of points - go for it.

PS: I've been on both sides of that closing.

67 posted on 06/25/2005 5:59:46 PM PDT by norton (build a wall and post the rules at the gate)
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To: Publius6961
Raise the basket 2 feet and then, for me, it might restore some element of skill to the "sport".

A-friggin-men !

68 posted on 06/25/2005 6:00:49 PM PDT by tomkat
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To: MikeinIraq

69 posted on 06/25/2005 6:06:08 PM PDT by tomkat
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To: MikeinIraq
(i actually agree w/ya about stealin' bases after the trounce is firmly in place ;-)
70 posted on 06/25/2005 6:09:09 PM PDT by tomkat
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To: MikeinIraq
I'd love to know more about this team ... especially the coaches.
71 posted on 06/25/2005 6:46:11 PM PDT by iconoclast (.. the president should "stop talking down" to Congress and the American people. - Anthony Cordesman)
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To: Melas
I always knew I didn't like baseball, and now I know why.

I always knew I preferred America and Western Civilization to Japan and I always knew why.

72 posted on 06/25/2005 6:51:21 PM PDT by iconoclast (.. the president should "stop talking down" to Congress and the American people. - Anthony Cordesman)
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To: SamAdams76
Get off the thread.

You "don't get it".

73 posted on 06/25/2005 6:55:11 PM PDT by iconoclast (.. the president should "stop talking down" to Congress and the American people. - Anthony Cordesman)
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To: HIDEK6
No kids.

Who'd have guessed it?

Would I be way off base in guessing not a whole lot of athletic prowess either?

74 posted on 06/25/2005 6:59:54 PM PDT by iconoclast (.. the president should "stop talking down" to Congress and the American people. - Anthony Cordesman)
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To: Melas
Hell man, I was an amatuer figher.

Too many blows to the head?

75 posted on 06/25/2005 7:03:10 PM PDT by iconoclast (.. the president should "stop talking down" to Congress and the American people. - Anthony Cordesman)
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To: tomkat
How many teams have you coached, tomkat?
76 posted on 06/25/2005 7:05:45 PM PDT by iconoclast (.. the president should "stop talking down" to Congress and the American people. - Anthony Cordesman)
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To: iconoclast
Well, I never did get asked to try out for the Cincinnati Reds, but I do recall having my ass kicked mercilessly on many occasions.

The lesson I learned was I had better improve.

It never occured to me that I should whine about the unfairness of the competition.

I believe the latter was the point of this discussion.

77 posted on 06/25/2005 7:27:50 PM PDT by HIDEK6
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To: iconoclast
And another thing, I don't get the "running up the score" part. How many runs should a team be allowed to get ahead by before they must then sit on their hands and stop trying to score?

Just a few nights ago, the Devil Rays built up a huge lead against the New York Yankees, only to lose the game because New York scored 13 runs in the top of the ninth!

I suppose the Devil Rays should have scored more runs but if they had, they might have been accused of "running up the score."

78 posted on 06/25/2005 7:54:53 PM PDT by SamAdams76 (Old enough to know better, still too young to care)
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To: tomkat

that is what may happen down the road.

The funny part is, sure the kids that are winning are good players, but if they are destroyed EVERYONE in their paths in this rec league, they have no incentive to improve their respective games.

they will remain good players, but when compared to towns like Pataskala, Pickerington, Groveport and all the other towns in the area, they will be behind the power curve.


79 posted on 06/26/2005 5:16:52 AM PDT by MikefromOhio (If the GOP can't come up with someone better than Tancredo, THEY ARE in a world of hurt.)
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To: norton

yeah but you don't need to steal bases and take the extra base or get into rundowns when you are up like that. Believe me, if you are up 15-20 runs, the kids on your team will find a way to score either way be it through walks or hits.

Backing off doesn't mean quitting. It means not trying to rub the other kids faces in it.


80 posted on 06/26/2005 5:19:09 AM PDT by MikefromOhio (If the GOP can't come up with someone better than Tancredo, THEY ARE in a world of hurt.)
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To: iconoclast

From the source I was talking with, this is a fairly common occurence when I think about it. Virtually every Little League has that kind of a-hole coach that wants to win and live vicariously through the kids.

Besides, this was a rec league team. Sure they were kicking the crap out of teams in Canal Winchester, but that is a small town. This team would be destroyed in Pickerington or Reynoldsburg by their common teams, i.e. drafted teams, and probably most of the rest of Columbus as well.


81 posted on 06/26/2005 5:21:11 AM PDT by MikefromOhio (If the GOP can't come up with someone better than Tancredo, THEY ARE in a world of hurt.)
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To: iconoclast
Too many blows to the head?

Way too many. Not only can't I spell, but it uglied me up good.

82 posted on 06/26/2005 8:00:21 AM PDT by Melas (Lives in state of disbelief)
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To: iconoclast
You can keep baseball. I'll keep boxing. I boxed too, is that "Western" enough for you? From your replies in this thread, cutting down one posters athletic prowess, telling another to get off the thread, and your responses to me I get the feeling that you're one of those curmudgeons who's never really happy with anything. On the up side, I guess one day I too will be a seasoned citizen who can say anything to anyone just because I'm old.
83 posted on 06/26/2005 8:04:36 AM PDT by Melas (Lives in state of disbelief)
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To: MikeinIraq
Virtually every Little League has that kind of a-hole coach that wants to win and live vicariously through the kids.

Nailhead, hammer, bang!

I came back to this thread today to say precisely what you have said so well.

No community needs a Steinbrenner in their kids league but virtually every one has one.

The first time I coached a kid's team I was 19. I was year out of high school when I bumped into the fine gentleman who was head basketball and baseball coach and assistant football coach at my alma mater. He cared about kids!

Our kid baseball teams were organized around grade school districts. Coach K told me that the district adjacent to the one I grew up in couldn't seem to come up with a coach, and would I be willing?

Well, as is very often the case, in the group of enthusiastic kids that greeted me there was one lad that was endowed with skills far above the level of his peers. You know the kind, I'm sure. Well, I decided instantly that he would be our Pitcher/Shortstop.

A couple of weeks later practices were going pretty well and Jimmy C. was turning out to be a good leader as well as a sterling performer. Then one evening he came to me after practice.

"Mr. C, I have something I have to tell you. My birthday is four days past eligible for the league."

What I thought was, "Oh, dang Jimmy, I wish you would have kept that to yourself!" ;o)

But I swallowed hard and said, "Jimmy I'm proud of you for coming forward like this". We're not a big town and I continued to run into him and we were friends for years afterward.

We wouldn't have been a great team with Jimmy, and we proceeded to pretty consistently take our lumps without him. Then, about mid-season, a team from a few districts way approached me for a scrimmage game, and I thought why not, we need all the practice we can get. ;o)

Well, long story a little shorter we beat 'em and my kids were ecstatic. They got a taste of victory and loved it! They bugged me the rest of the season for practice games with "G.P." school. I was happy to comply and we won enough of 'em to make the boys first exposure to competitive play a more pleasant memory.

Kid sports should be about building pleasant memories and life long relationships. But, as you point out, there are unfortuantely those few a-holes who will never get it.

84 posted on 06/26/2005 9:17:53 AM PDT by iconoclast (.. the president should "stop talking down" to Congress and the American people. - Anthony Cordesman)
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To: Melas
I boxed too, is that "Western" enough for you?

I never boxed beyond Boys Club, but enjoyed it as a spectator most of my life (till it got corrupted beyond belief).

Still enjoy amateur boxing, sorry you got some other impression.

85 posted on 06/26/2005 9:27:05 AM PDT by iconoclast (.. the president should "stop talking down" to Congress and the American people. - Anthony Cordesman)
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To: iconoclast
My apologies. I can be a grouchy dog myself. I'm going to start taking a vow to not reply to anything online until after lunch when I'm usually a much better person to be around.

I quit watching boxing when it became corrupt as well. I have seen a fight in years now. The sport is just a shadow of what it used to be.

86 posted on 06/26/2005 11:47:42 AM PDT by Melas (Lives in state of disbelief)
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Comment #87 Removed by Moderator

To: kiki04

I'd like to set everyone straight. I coach in the CW league that the "Stars" were kicked out of. The reason that they were asked to leave is because they lied and got into the league under false pretense. The Canal Rec league is community based. In the Canal league, in this division we have 3 teams from our village (4500 residents). There are two teams from Sugar Grove, three teams from Carroll/Lithopolis and one team from World Harvest church (all very small towns). In the Spring, the "Stars" asked to join the league and told the Commissioner that they were from the small village of Obetz. After the 1st 3 games when it was obvious that this was not a "rec" team, an investigation was done to determine if the addresses of the team members were from Obetz. They were not! In the Columbus Dispatch article, the author states that only one player does not live in the 43207 zip code. So what!!!!...that zip code contains almost 50,000 residents and stretches from north of I70 down to the Franklin/Pickaway county line! So much for community based. After this information was discovered, the "Stars" were asked to leave. One of their parents cried to the Dispatch and this whole mess started. Even though the author of the article was given these facts he chose to ignore them....never let the truth get in the way of a good story! After all this hubub hit about the "Stars", it was discovered that the team was kicked out of their travel league last year for abusive behavior. Don't you think it is odd that a team so good would choose to beat up on a bunch of "rec" teams by 20 runs every game? How does that help you improve? The answer is that the "Stars" were not welcome anywhere else. The league since has determined that the "Stars" were also kicked out of their 2003 league. The Canal Rec Dept. has issued press releases to tell the real truth, but as of yet no one is interested in telling that side of the story....why ruin a good story? Now this story has gone National as all the wire services have picked up this story. I had to chase TV cameras from FOX Sports (Chicago) out of my dugout last week!! Our community has chosen to take the high road in all this, but enough is enough. The teams in our league are preparing a response. When enough parents get involved, hopefully someone at the Dispatch will give us a voice and end this nightmare. I'm sorry for this long post, but I just had to get if off my chest after watching our community get dragged through the mud for the past few weeks. Thank you.



88 posted on 06/27/2005 8:35:56 PM PDT by CoachK
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To: CoachK

Thank you for the whole story. Why did the writers totally ignore the facts? Can any of you set the record straight for the media????


89 posted on 06/28/2005 4:54:03 AM PDT by kiki04 ("If a little knowledge is dangerous, where is a man who has so much as to be out of danger?" - THH)
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To: kiki04
I don't know why the Dispatch writer has chosen to tell a one-sided story. He interviewed people from the league before he wrote his story, but chose not to present that side of things. After the article hit the wires, all the national attention exploded from there. All the radio and TV shows just regurgitated the Dispatch article. None of them did any research on their own. It's hard to believe. It's possible that the tide has started to turn. The NBC affiliate from Cincinnati was here on the weekend to do a story. They interviewed the Rec Board President on camera and seemed to be asking the proper questions to get to the bottom of things. The coach of the "Stars" has suddenly disconnected his phone...wonder why????
90 posted on 06/28/2005 5:12:32 AM PDT by CoachK
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To: CoachK

Good. I was hoping there was more to the story than what was written. They need to be exposed for the cheaters and hacks that they are.


91 posted on 06/28/2005 7:58:05 AM PDT by kiki04 ("If a little knowledge is dangerous, where is a man who has so much as to be out of danger?" - THH)
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