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Clergy who don't believe in God
The London Times ^ | 5 July 2005 | Ruth Gledhill

Posted on 07/04/2005 6:53:08 PM PDT by Aussie Dasher

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To: TheBigPicture

A communist/athiest can be a pastor but a true, believing pastor cannot be a communist/athiest.


81 posted on 07/04/2005 10:37:26 PM PDT by LittleBoPeep
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To: little jeremiah

I got one from TAN books and publishers, Rockford, IL

If you do a Google on Douay-Rheims, they are also still available bound in leather.
I had to put a cover on mine, as TAN only has paperback.
You will love it, get one.
I study comparatively, as in side by side... and the differences, and deliberate destruction of certain thoughts and messages is illuminating.
After all, who can trust a bible from a government?

It is also available, free, online for download, which I find VERY handy.
www.memorare.com/bibles/douayrheims.html
Just copy and paste what you need.
But it does not negate the need for a physical one for study.
I do hope you get yourself one. Beautiful to read the WORD FOR WORD translation compared to phrase by phrase.
chris


82 posted on 07/04/2005 10:37:50 PM PDT by letusprey (Death to all child rapists.)
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To: Aussie Dasher

Sort of like:
Accountants who don't believe in money.
Lawyers that don't believe in judges.
Doctors that don't belive in medicine.
Computer programmers that don't believe in Bill Gates.

Taking money for being a clergyman when you don't believe in God is fraud.


83 posted on 07/04/2005 10:46:27 PM PDT by Busywhiskers (Former Republican since the Great RINO betrayal of 2005.)
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
We're fortunate to have this out in the open. When you think of the direction that some Church leaders have attempted to take their congregations, things simply haven't made sense. Until now.

This may be a bit of a Rosetta stone for decrypting those puzzling statements made by "innovative" pastors. Perhaps conversations with dissenting church leaders shouldn't begin with a disagreement over Church doctrine, but rather with the question, "Do you believe in God?"

As for your comment about Bill Clinton becoming an evangelist, well, given this information atheist clergy, it might just be in character for a man who "never inhaled" and who did not have sex with "that woman."
84 posted on 07/04/2005 11:13:22 PM PDT by InterestedQuestioner
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To: goldstategop
"The Church Of England is facing extinction. If its own clergy don't believe in God, why have a Church? Indeed and that's why Anglican pews across England are empty of worshippers and devoid of spirit."

It doesn't help that the leader-to-be of the church--and Defender of the Faiths--expressed his eagerness to be a tampon.

85 posted on 07/04/2005 11:14:16 PM PDT by LibertarianInExile ("Property must be secured or liberty cannot exist." -- John Adams. "F that." -- SCOTUS, in Kelo.)
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To: InterestedQuestioner
Indeed

Have you ever attended any of the programs of The Discovery Institute?

86 posted on 07/04/2005 11:18:16 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
How can someone claim to be a Christian clergyman and NOT believe in God?

I think C.S. Lewis was writing in the 40s about this -- that it used to be that laymen hid their unbelief from the clergy; at the time he was writing, he mentions those laymen who would be reluctant to admit their faith to their clergy.

He cites those clergy who claim to have come by their lack of belief "honestly." And he says he has no reason to doubt that; what he doubts is whether, having come by such unbelief, they can honestly continue in the service (and pay) of the church.

87 posted on 07/05/2005 12:54:48 AM PDT by maryz
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To: MississippiMan
Even if you don't believe in a coming Rapture, that gullibility and blindness is still just as stunning.

Indeed it is, and is one of the things that is convincing me that those who believe as you do are correct. (Not 100% sold on it, as I've been monitoring this debate for some time, and all sides quote scriptures to validate their position, which can be somewhat confusing, as scripture is not supposed to contradict itself.)

the infowarrior

88 posted on 07/05/2005 1:47:54 AM PDT by infowarrior (TANSTAAFL)
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To: Aussie Dasher
Just a job? I want a minister or priest with a fire in his belly for Jesus. One who knows and believes the scripture and can convey that knowledge and belief to his flock. Anything less is a wolf in sheep's clothing, wrapping himself in the Lamb of God for deception's sake.

I would rather that ye be hot or cold than lukewarm..

89 posted on 07/05/2005 2:08:06 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (Grant no power to government you would not want your worst enemies to wield against you.)
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To: Aussie Dasher
"...committed Anglicans are clear about one thing it is the existence of God: 97 per cent have no hesitation in affirming His existence. Yet, it continues, one in 33 clerics doubts the existence of God."

Isn't this the same number? one in thirty-three would be three in ninety-nine or 97%

90 posted on 07/05/2005 2:34:52 AM PDT by muir_redwoods (Free Sirhan Sirhan, after all, the bastard who killed Mary Jo Kopeckne is walking around free)
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To: maryz

Perhaps because Christianity is a social institution it can take on the same type of social functions of conformity, etc. Part of that, ironically enough, can be a tacit skepticism or agnosticism with regard to the more emphatic supernatural claims, miracles, etc., among some church members. In Name only types..


91 posted on 07/05/2005 4:14:10 AM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: TheBigPicture
Can you even be a member of the clergy if you don't believe in God? Shouldn't that be met with automatic excommunication?

Not when your "church" is actually a quasi-government agency, as it in is the UK. Think of it as somewhat equivalent to the United States Postal Service: It doesn't get any direct government financial support, but it wouldn't last a week if the laws mandating its existence were to be repealed.

92 posted on 07/05/2005 4:22:52 AM PDT by Dont Mention the War (John Bolton for White House Press Secretary!)
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To: terycarl
When all Christians return to the mother church of Christianity, Catholocism, all will be well with Jesus, the founder of HIS CATHOLIC CHURCH.

Actually, I'm a Lutheran. If you can read the scriptures in your own language, then you can thank my church, not yours. That's "what's happening now".

And if you really want to get technical, I'd say that the Orthodox church is clearly the mother church of Christianity.
93 posted on 07/05/2005 4:31:43 AM PDT by horse_doc
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To: Aussie Dasher
fewer than two thirds believe in miracles, a study out today says.

Because you would never learn about ongoing miracles unless you watched EWTN, or something like that. The media sure isn't going to publicize them.

94 posted on 07/05/2005 5:28:46 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: Aussie Dasher
Fair enough - but you'd reckon a minister of religion would at the very least believe in God!

Yes, but it's possible to lose one's faith. And the stats given here indicate that only 3% of the ministers doubt the existence of God, as compared to 10% of the general population (at least in America). The reluctance of these priests to resign can be explained by the fact that there aren't many employment opportunites outside the church for former priests that don't involve heavy lifting.

The number of doubting clergy also roughly corresponds to the percentage of priestly homosexual ephebophiles (2%).

95 posted on 07/05/2005 5:38:30 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: Aussie Dasher

They believe in a steady paycheck.


96 posted on 07/05/2005 5:53:55 AM PDT by GadareneDemoniac
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To: righttackle44; HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
John
Chapter 3
17
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn 8 the world, but that the world might be saved through him.
18
Whoever believes in him will not be condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

97 posted on 07/05/2005 6:08:21 AM PDT by NYer ("Each person is meant to exist. Each person is God's own idea." - Pope Benedict XVI)
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To: NYer

"Ye shall be as gods..."


98 posted on 07/05/2005 6:39:59 AM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: terycarl
When all Christians return to the mother church of Christianity, Catholocism, all will be well with Jesus, the founder of HIS CATHOLIC CHURCH.

Because the Papacy was such a shining example of decency for the first 1000 years after it became the state religion.

99 posted on 07/05/2005 6:46:31 AM PDT by Oztrich Boy (It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong. = Voltaire)
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To: Aussie Dasher
There's a lot of us that don't believe there is a God. It doesn't mean that we are terrible people - it just means we really believe that Darwin was right and that our existance is purely accidental.

The "soul" is our ability to treat others as we would like to be treated.

100 posted on 07/05/2005 6:47:53 AM PDT by sandydipper (Less government is best government!)
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