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Londonistan No More ( A New Finest Hour? )
National Review ^ | 07/07/05 | John F.Cullinan

Posted on 07/07/2005 2:20:43 PM PDT by smoothsailing

July 07, 2005, 3:20 p.m.

Londonistan No More

A new Finest Hour?

By John F. Cullinan

As London copes with the aftermath of Thursday morning's terrorist bombings — and braces for the possibility of fresh attacks — some sobering thoughts on causes and effects come immediately to mind.

After the Madrid bombings in March 2004, London's senior police official revealed that British security services had thwarted several major terrorist attacks targeted against London. But he grimly acknowledged that "there is an inevitability that some sort of attack will get through." "This is not just about the railways, the underground," he added with eerie prescience. "It's about buses, roads, pubs, nightclubs and the like."

TARGET CHOICE

Britain's special relationship with the United States — broadened and deepened since the 9/11 attacks and its shoulder-to-shoulder collaboration in the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq — certainly makes the British capital a prime target for jihadists. But there are deeper causes at work, beginning with the long-time status of "Londonistan" (see here and here) as the principal mecca for various Middle East exile groups that were allowed to set up shop on condition that their activities remain focused elsewhere. Among their ranks is the extremist Egyptian cleric Abu Hamza al-Masri, whose trial for incitement to murder and other terrorist offenses began this week.

A less openly acknowledged cause for concern is deep disaffection among portions of Britain's Muslim population (about 2 million of 60 million Britons). A 2002 Daily Telegraph poll found that "one in five British Muslims feels little loyalty towards Britain." As for Osama bin Laden, the same poll found that 13 percent regarded his attacks against Western targets as justified, 11 percent had no opinion one way or the other, and 26 percent denied bin Laden's responsibility. It is from this particular subgroup that nearly all of Britain's homegrown terrorist suspects have emerged, including the group arrested last August and charged with plotting attacks in London as well as in New York, Newark, and Washington.

Also relevant is the Labor government's equivocal and inadequate responses to the patent threat of Islamist terror. To take just one example, the British governing class has tied itself in knots over the fate of eleven foreign nationals detained without charges as "terrorists" engaged in "international terrorism" under the Anti-Terrorist, Crime and Security Act of 2000. It was a classic Catch-22 without any possibility of (a) prosecution under British law (without exposing intelligence sources and methods in open court); (b) deportation to the suspects' home countries under applicable European and international law (given "substantial grounds" for believing torture might ensue); or (c) deportation to third countries, with none willing to accommodate these individuals.

Britain rightly sought to justify the unsatisfactory expedient of detention without charges for this handful of manifestly dangerous men by opting out of the relevant provisions of the 1950 European Convention on Human Rights, which the Blair administration unwisely incorporated into domestic law in 1998. That convention expressly permits suspension of certain rights "in time of war or other public emergency threatening the life of the nation."

Last December Britain's highest court ruled these detentions — which the liberal chattering classes had likened to Guantanamo — incompatible with the ECHR and therefore invalid. According to one of the judges, "Whether we would survive Hitler hung in the balance, but there is no doubt that we shall survive al Qaeda.... The real threat to the life of the nation, in the sense of a people living in accordance with its traditional laws and political values, comes not from terrorism but from laws such as these."

So far Lord Hoffman, author of these irresponsible and insouciant remarks, has not been heard from in the wake of this morning's murderous attacks.

HOW WILL BRITAIN RESPOND?

Initial commentary has focused on Britain's Finest Hour, the stalwart response to the Luftwaffe Blitz. But a more relevant precedent may be the reaction to the 1974 Birmingham pub bombings (21 killed, 182 wounded), when the Irish Troubles first spilled over onto the British mainland. Parliament responded almost instantly with the draconian Prevention of Terrorism Act, which set a modern record for enactment within 48 hours of its initial introduction.

Look for Tony Blair to sever the Gordian knot manufactured by Britain's Law Lords and to take the fight to the enemy. Britain is not Spain, which responded to the Madrid attacks with surrender and appeasement. Last week Britain celebrated the 200th anniversary of the Battle of Trafalgar, which turned the tide against Napoleon's totalitarian project. It is to be hoped that Blair will rise to level of Nelson's exhortation that "England expects that every man will do his duty."

— John F. Cullinan formerly served as a senior foreign policy advisor to the U.S. Catholic bishops, focusing on international law, human rights, and the use of force.    

http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/cullinan200507071520.asp    


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Philosophy; United Kingdom; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: alqaeda; axisofevil; danegeld; islamofascism; jihadinengland; jihadineurope; jihadinlondon; koranimals; london; londonattacked; religionofpeace; religionofpieces; religionoftolerance; terrorism; terrorists; trop; waronterror; wot
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1 posted on 07/07/2005 2:20:43 PM PDT by smoothsailing
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To: smoothsailing

It seems to be a little late for the Brits. The camel is already in the tent. We need to go on a camel hunt in this country. And close the tent.


2 posted on 07/07/2005 2:27:29 PM PDT by Misterioso
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To: smoothsailing

I hope he is right, but I am not convinced that the Brits are better than Spain when it comes to appeasement anymore (excepting Blair).


3 posted on 07/07/2005 2:28:29 PM PDT by dynachrome ("Where am I? Where am I going? Why am I in a handbasket?")
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To: smoothsailing

"Last week Britain celebrated the 200th anniversary of the Battle of Trafalgar, which turned the tide against Napoleon's totalitarian project."


Except that, in order not to offend the sensibilities of the losers of that battle, the two fleets were designated "red" and "blue".


Britain had better manage a more robust (and potentially offensive to islamofascist sensibilities) response to this bombing, or they won't be Britain much longer.


4 posted on 07/07/2005 2:29:05 PM PDT by Little Pig (Is it time for "Cowboys and Muslims" yet?)
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To: smoothsailing

The more I look at it the more I see that Ferdinand and Isabella had the right idea around 1492.


5 posted on 07/07/2005 2:29:36 PM PDT by GSlob
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To: Misterioso
Never underestimate the British people.
6 posted on 07/07/2005 2:32:01 PM PDT by mdittmar (May God watch over those who serve,and have served, to keep us free.)
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To: smoothsailing
One advantage to Britain not having a written constitution is that they can implement measures to destroy mohammedan terrorism that we never could. I hope Blair performs in a manner worthy of Winston Churchill or Margaret Thatcher, and NOT of David Lloyd-George or *ick!* Neville Chamberlain!

However, with a Labour government, my hopes aren't high for him to do that.....

7 posted on 07/07/2005 2:33:20 PM PDT by Bombardier (Ready to suit up for one more mission.....)
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To: smoothsailing

Are spaniards aware that they have become the universal symbol of appeasement/submission to terrorists? How do they feel about it if they do know?


8 posted on 07/07/2005 2:34:11 PM PDT by Betaille ("I turned 21 in prison doin' life without parole" Merle Haggard (lyrics))
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To: Misterioso

On what legal grounds? It would be quite difficult to deport legal immigrants who have not violated any law and profess to be loyal.


9 posted on 07/07/2005 2:34:43 PM PDT by proxy_user
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To: Betaille

"Are spaniards aware that they have become the universal symbol of appeasement/submission to terrorists?"

Are you aware how many terrorists suspected of being involved in the Madrid bombings have been arrested by Spain, and that Spanish soldiers continue operations against Al Qaeda in Afghanistan? Strange definition of surrender you have.


10 posted on 07/07/2005 2:37:48 PM PDT by Canard
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To: Misterioso

"It seems to be a little late for the Brits. The camel is already in the tent. We need to go on a camel hunt in this country. And close the tent."

Absolutely, Europe has a HUGE islamic problem. They won't be able to do anything about terrorism until they get their domestic muslim populations under control.
That means cracking down on immigration (especially muslim immigration) and travel, and keep close tabs on existing muslim communities.
I think the US's biggest advantage over Europe concerning terrorism is that we have a small muslim population that is easy to keep tabs on. However, muslims can come in from the mexican border, which is our achilles heel, much like the west bank was Israels achilles heel before they put up the security fence.


11 posted on 07/07/2005 2:38:11 PM PDT by Betaille ("I turned 21 in prison doin' life without parole" Merle Haggard (lyrics))
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To: Bombardier
Blair is steadfast, I doubt Labour ministers will have much stomach for getting in his face anytime soon.
12 posted on 07/07/2005 2:42:07 PM PDT by smoothsailing (Qui Nhon Turtle Co.)
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To: Canard

"Are you aware how many terrorists suspected of being involved in the Madrid bombings have been arrested by Spain"

I don't judge an anti-terror policy by how many suspects are arrested after the fact.

"and that Spanish soldiers continue operations against Al Qaeda in Afghanistan?"

They fled unconditionally from Iraq. I don't give them much respect for sticking around when it is politically popular to do so.

"Strange definition of surrender you have."

No. The Spanish voters did EXACTLY what Al Qaeda told them to do just days after the bombing. They allowed the terrorists to choose their next government. That's complete submission in my book.


13 posted on 07/07/2005 2:43:29 PM PDT by Betaille ("I turned 21 in prison doin' life without parole" Merle Haggard (lyrics))
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To: smoothsailing
It matters not if the United States provoked Iraq or has meddled worldwide and therefore deserves what it gets.

It's all irrelevant. If America goes down all the Euros will go down in short order. It boggles my mind that these tea-drinking boobs cannot see this.

14 posted on 07/07/2005 2:47:14 PM PDT by Lizavetta
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To: All

London Times reporter is on Gibby on Fox right now.
Reaction of Brits, he says, is one of disdain to terrorists. Brits are asking "is this the best you can do?"
Love Tony Blair! Love the Brits!


15 posted on 07/07/2005 2:48:08 PM PDT by HoneyBoo
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To: GSlob
What subtle wisdom am I missing in your words? They paid for three boats?

;)

16 posted on 07/07/2005 2:49:03 PM PDT by smoothsailing (Qui Nhon Turtle Co.)
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To: Darksheare; Dead Corpse; Do not dub me shapka broham; Tax-chick; SJackson; MadIvan; CHARLITE; ...

ping


17 posted on 07/07/2005 2:51:54 PM PDT by King Prout (I'd say I missed ya, but that'd be untrue... I NEVER MISS)
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To: HoneyBoo
Misunderestimating British resolve has always been a mistake. ;)
18 posted on 07/07/2005 2:54:43 PM PDT by smoothsailing (Qui Nhon Turtle Co.)
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To: Betaille

" I don't judge an anti-terror policy by how many suspects are arrested after the fact."

How would you judge it?

"The Spanish voters did EXACTLY what Al Qaeda told them to do just days after the bombing. They allowed the terrorists to choose their next government."

I doubt Al Qaeda wanted them to continue to hunt their leaders. Over here, we have a long experience of dealing with domestic terrorism, as do the Spanish, and todays events will not in any way deflect from dealing with that.


19 posted on 07/07/2005 2:54:43 PM PDT by Canard
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To: smoothsailing
What subtle wisdom am I missing in your words? They paid for three boats?

They made the decision to send Columbus towards the West. :) :)

20 posted on 07/07/2005 2:55:48 PM PDT by Misterioso
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To: smoothsailing

The British response to the attack on their soil, if there is any response, will be weak and ineffectual. All the Anglo-Saxon/British cojones reside in the New World now.


21 posted on 07/07/2005 2:56:35 PM PDT by billnaz (What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?)
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To: smoothsailing
a little something I hope the British remember, from their greatest recent poet - long reviled as an imperial apologist by the milti-cultis, so one can not be sure the English can BEAR to remember anything he said...

The Dane Geld

It is always a temptation
to an armed and agile nation
To call upon a neighbour and to say: --
"We invaded you last night--
we are quite prepared to fight,
Unless you pay us cash to go away."

And that is called asking for Dane-geld,
And the people who ask it explain
That you've only to pay 'em the Dane-geld
And then you'll get rid of the Dane!

It is always a temptation
for a rich and lazy nation,
To puff and look important and to say: --
"Though we know we should defeat you,
we have not the time to meet you.
We will therefore pay you cash to go away."

And that is called paying the Dane-geld;
But we've proved it again and again,
That if once you have paid him the Dane-geld
You never get rid of the Dane.

It is wrong to put temptation in the path of any nation,
For fear they should succumb and go astray;
So when you are requested
to pay up, or be molested,
You will find it better policy to say: --

"We never pay anyone Dane-geld,
No matter how trifling the cost;
For the end of that game
is oppression and shame,
and the nation that pays it is lost!"

- Rudyard Kipling -

22 posted on 07/07/2005 2:58:36 PM PDT by King Prout (I'd say I missed ya, but that'd be untrue... I NEVER MISS)
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To: smoothsailing

God bless our brothers and sisters in England.

For now, we should not worry about their march to Socilaism but rather embrace them as our close cousins and the only other real fighter in the WOT.

I feverently wish that the pedophile moon-god worshipper muhammed (may he burn in hell between 2 pigs for eternity) and his evil adherents all meet the REAL GOD who will provide the infinite justice we are so afraid to speak of.


23 posted on 07/07/2005 3:02:43 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (Durka Durka Durka. Muhammed Jihad Durka.)
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To: billnaz

"The British response to the attack on their soil, if there is any response, will be weak and ineffectual. All the Anglo-Saxon/British cojones reside in the New World now."

I'm trying to type a non-abusive response, but having trouble. Your snide patronising drivel is very unwelcome today.


24 posted on 07/07/2005 3:02:54 PM PDT by Canard
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To: King Prout
A warning and a lesson. I need to read some Kipling, it's been a long time.

Thanks for the post,KP!

25 posted on 07/07/2005 3:05:47 PM PDT by smoothsailing (Qui Nhon Turtle Co.)
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To: Canard

agreed


26 posted on 07/07/2005 3:08:19 PM PDT by Minus_The_Bear
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To: dynachrome

Don't underestimate the Brits. They've got more grit than the Spaniards did--excepting their imported terrorist community, of course.


27 posted on 07/07/2005 3:09:00 PM PDT by MizSterious (First, the journalists, THEN the lawyers.)
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To: Canard

" I don't judge an anti-terror policy by how many suspects are arrested after the fact."

"How would you judge it?"

By preventing terrorist attacks and killing terrorists.

"I doubt Al Qaeda wanted them to continue to hunt their leaders."

That's a really weak argument. Just because the Spanish haven't entirely abandoned their own domestic security means the terrorists didn't win?
When you allow your attacker to choose your government, you have surrendered. Period.


28 posted on 07/07/2005 3:11:12 PM PDT by Betaille ("I turned 21 in prison doin' life without parole" Merle Haggard (lyrics))
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To: Canard; billnaz
He's new here.
29 posted on 07/07/2005 3:12:50 PM PDT by smoothsailing (Qui Nhon Turtle Co.)
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To: MizSterious

"their imported terrorist community"

I think that will be the lesson of these bombings. 9/11 was a security lapse, but this was an inside job. I think we will soon be hearing that the bombers (or at least their accomplices) were British citizens or legal residents.
George Galloway recently got elected to parliament with some of the pro-terrorist campaign I've ever seen in a western country... and people didn't think that would have implications for Britains security?


30 posted on 07/07/2005 3:15:29 PM PDT by Betaille ("I turned 21 in prison doin' life without parole" Merle Haggard (lyrics))
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To: MizSterious

"their imported terrorist community"

I think that will be the lesson of these bombings. 9/11 was a security lapse, but this was an inside job. I think we will soon be hearing that the bombers (or at least their accomplices) were British citizens or legal residents.
George Galloway recently got elected to parliament with the pro-terrorist campaign I've ever seen in a western country... and people didn't think that would have implications for Britains security?


31 posted on 07/07/2005 3:15:40 PM PDT by Betaille ("I turned 21 in prison doin' life without parole" Merle Haggard (lyrics))
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To: smoothsailing

it was my pleasure, and surely seems appropriate to the hour.


32 posted on 07/07/2005 3:16:18 PM PDT by King Prout (I'd say I missed ya, but that'd be untrue... I NEVER MISS)
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To: billnaz
The British response to the attack on their soil, if there is any response, will be weak and ineffectual. All the Anglo-Saxon/British cojones reside in the New World now.

Why don't you just go ahead and shut your word-hole, Newbie.

33 posted on 07/07/2005 3:19:07 PM PDT by Modernman ("Laws are like sausages, it is better not to see them being made." -Bismarck)
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To: Little Pig
Except that, in order not to offend the sensibilities of the losers of that battle, the two fleets were designated "red" and "blue".

Socialists in their own trap. They get votes for power struggle by promising to steal your neighbor's money for your kid's college, and then they try to avoid involving themselves in power pride struggle arguments using PC.

It's total hypocrisy that is not lost on the enemy's mind.

34 posted on 07/07/2005 3:19:38 PM PDT by JudgemAll (Condemn me, make me naked and kill me, or be silent for ever on my gun ownership and law enforcement)
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To: dennisw; Cachelot; Yehuda; Nix 2; veronica; Catspaw; knighthawk; Alouette; Optimist; weikel; ...
If you'd like to be on this middle east/political ping list, please FR mail me.

..........................................

35 posted on 07/07/2005 3:22:30 PM PDT by SJackson (On the second try, I got that jug off, but then I had a bear tied to a tree)
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To: smoothsailing

The Brits should use eminent domain to take the mosques in greater London. Space may be needed for the Olympic games, after all.


36 posted on 07/07/2005 3:22:54 PM PDT by kcar (theUNsucks.com)
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To: MizSterious

I do hope I am wrong.


37 posted on 07/07/2005 3:24:19 PM PDT by dynachrome ("Where am I? Where am I going? Why am I in a handbasket?")
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To: Betaille

"By preventing terrorist attacks and killing terrorists."

Yeah that's what I figured. But by that standard, Spanish involvement in the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq evidently did not prevent the attack on Madrid. Analysis of the Spanish elections is pretty subjective, my analysis was that the main effect of the attack was to boost turnout. The extra turnout was liable to be people who were anti-Aznar, but were motivated to vote by the attacks and his reaction to them.

"That's a really weak argument. Just because the Spanish haven't entirely abandoned their own domestic security means the terrorists didn't win?"

It's a pretty weak argument to say that the Spanish government took one decision (which was one the people wanted all along) which you define as surrendering to terrorism, ignoring all the other steps they continue to take to fight terrorism. As weak as arguing that the US decision to withdraw bases from Saudi Arabia (as demanded by Osama bin Laden) constitutes a surrender.


38 posted on 07/07/2005 3:24:50 PM PDT by Canard
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To: Canard
Unfortunately, Spain abandoned the actual fight against terrorism and is now treating terrorism as a criminal act, not as an act of war. I see a difference there.
39 posted on 07/07/2005 3:25:39 PM PDT by ArmyTeach (Pray daily for our troops...)
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To: Little Pig
or they won't be Britain much longer.

Islamic Isles of the North Sea?

40 posted on 07/07/2005 3:27:17 PM PDT by TheRightGuy (ERROR CODE 018974523: Random Tagline Compiler Failure)
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To: smoothsailing

I recommend the complete collection of Kipling's verse. it contains many gems like Dane-Geld


41 posted on 07/07/2005 3:27:21 PM PDT by dynachrome ("Where am I? Where am I going? Why am I in a handbasket?")
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To: billnaz
All the Anglo-Saxon/British cojones reside in the New World now.

Sadly, you are clearly the example that proves your own words false, Asshat.

It seems that both testicular and gray matter are lacking in your neck of the woods. Did your Mom have any intelligent children who lived, Newbie?

42 posted on 07/07/2005 3:29:39 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (Durka Durka Durka. Muhammed Jihad Durka.)
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To: Misterioso

close the tent.
open the camps.


43 posted on 07/07/2005 3:31:44 PM PDT by eccl1212
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To: ArmyTeach

"Spain abandoned the actual fight against terrorism and is now treating terrorism as a criminal act, not as an act of war. I see a difference there."

They are still fighting a war in Afghanistan. Not in massive numbers maybe, but with the support of the Spanish people.


44 posted on 07/07/2005 3:32:46 PM PDT by Canard
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To: kcar
Sounds like a job for (dah-dot-dah-dah) SOUTERMAN !!!

;)

45 posted on 07/07/2005 3:34:37 PM PDT by smoothsailing (Qui Nhon Turtle Co.)
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To: dynachrome
Thanks! After King Prout's post I decided tomorrow would be a good day for the library!
46 posted on 07/07/2005 3:39:20 PM PDT by smoothsailing (Qui Nhon Turtle Co.)
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To: smoothsailing

Time for Britain to boot every last Muslim who was not born there out of the country. Fight the legal battles later...save your citizens now.


47 posted on 07/07/2005 3:44:27 PM PDT by driftless ( For life-long happiness, learn how to play the accordion.)
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To: smoothsailing; Canard; billnaz
"He's new here."

I'm not. Here, chew on some facts.

ICM Poll of Britons

Q3. In the dispute in the Middle East between Israel and the Palestinians, from what you have seen and heard about the conflict which of the two do you sympathise with more, Israel or the Palestinians?

Israel       14%

Palestine    28%

Both        14%

Neither     23%

Don't know   20%


48 posted on 07/07/2005 3:46:52 PM PDT by familyop ("Let us try" sounds better, don't you think? "Essayons" is so...Latin.)
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To: smoothsailing

Determination instead of Retribution. That is the GOP mantra being sent out here in Michigan anyway.

Shoot. Blair should have announced that he had given orders to the HMS Vengeance to destroy the Capital of Iran,TEHf**kingRAN within the next 48 hours. PERIOD!


49 posted on 07/07/2005 3:50:54 PM PDT by TomasUSMC (FIGHT LIKE WW2, FINISH LIKE WW2. FIGHT LIKE NAM, FINISH LIKE NAM.)
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To: Betaille

"That's a really weak argument. Just because the Spanish haven't entirely abandoned their own domestic security means the terrorists didn't win?
When you allow your attacker to choose your government, you have surrendered. Period."

The Spanish chose their own government. If you are claiming that the Spanish should have voted for B just because Al Qaeda asked them to vote for A then you are the one saying the Spanish should have based their vote on what Al-Qaeda said.

I think the Spanish should have just voted regardless of what Al-Qaeda said, and I think that is what they did.


50 posted on 07/07/2005 3:53:02 PM PDT by bobdsmith
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