Skip to comments.Vanity: Dad's conversations with Muslim shop owner about London bombing (chilling wake up call)
Posted on 07/08/2005 7:13:25 PM PDT by NZerFromHK
My father owns a business in the CBD area here in Auckland. We have a shop selling Persian rugs next to us and the owner is Iranian himself. He is a moderate Muslim (yep, the MSM definition of it no less) and seems to be very nice to us and other nearby shops' owners. Dad had this conversation with the owner yesterday regarding the London bombing:
Dad: Did you read the papers this morning?
Owner: Yes, a big news event.
Dad: It's sad, isn't it?
Owner: Well, the British got it upon themselves. You know that Americans and British have killed many of us Muslims!
Dad: Do you really mean it? All the people died there are innocent deaths!
Owner: But they have killed many Muslims as a nation!
Owner: So, what do you think about it.
Dad: It's a complicated matter.
(And then he switched to another topic)
And he was fuming over dinner last night. He is a conservative like me, but because he doesn't want to get into argument due to traditional Chinese sense of politeness in conversation, he did not refute the shop owner's words in his face.
It serves as a wake up call for me. I have always imagined the moderate Muslims know the stakes, but now I have to reevaluate whether I could trust even many of the moderate Muslims in light of this conversation.
Sounds pretty typical. Victimhood is ingrained in the Muslim psyche.
Straight from the mouth of a "moderate Muslim".
Sounds like the Persian rug shop owner has done a mind-meld with Dick Durbin.
Before this is over it may very well get up close and personal.
Liberals' steadfast refusal to make even the most rudimentary moral distinctions never ceases to amaze me...
Well, what can I say. It's not as if we haven't been shouting from the rooftops for years about how there is no such thing as moderate Islam, only degrees of apostacy. Osama and his like are the true Muslims. Most of the others simply don't want to get involved in any of the dirty work, but they'll never take on the bad guys in their midst. They may not want to join al Qaeda, but they won't risk their necks to stop them and probably agree with a lot of what they do.
A "moderate" muzzie is simply one who's run out of ammunition.
The moderate Muslims are Bin Laden, Zarqawi, Hook, et al.
The extremists are anyone that disagrees with them.
And let me tell you. There is a tiny minority of Muslim extremists.
Yep. An elderly (and wealthy) Peruvian told me the same thing as I was sitting in a bar on 9/11. Luckily, his daughter told him to keep quiet and keep moving.
Precisely. I'm starting to think that most of these people are objectively on the terrorists' side even if they won't make any bombs themselves.
Count on a Persian to tell any Chinese a story that will upset him.
It's quite traditional, and intentional.
Wow. So if his rug shop has a fire he will say it was a hate crime?
As Fox Mulder says: "Trust no muslim".
When they realize that they are as much of a target as anyone else, they start singing a different tune.
Thank you for posting this story. It is very sad and also very scairy, but realistic. It is no accident that the "moderate" Muslims are so quiet. They really aren't on our side. And quietly and secretly they are rooting for the terrorists.
We need to be just way more scrupulous about our Mosques and Moderate Muslims. I am tired of hearing Liberals and the Dims "explaining and making excuses" for the silence of the Moderate Muslims.
I once boarded a plane in Christchurch without going through security and changed planes in Auckland without going through security, then flew right into LAX. I could have had an M-16 with me, and nobody would have ever known. I hope that's changed.
But it's ok for them to kill thousands of innocent people over the past decade.
There's no such thing as a moderate Muslim BUMP!
Saddam kills hundreds of thousands of Muslims, and thats OK, with the Muslim population outside Iraq.
Or not quite enough of them depending upon one's view.
Pitchforks and lanters...with a smiley face!
We now have security checks for all transfer passengers and departing passengers on both international and trunk domestic flights.
Still, security is a bit lax than when compared with many other airports overseas: I travelled on AKL-PPT (papeete/Tahiti) - LAX-DFW-DTW two years ago. My shoe sole was a bit damaged due to wear over the years and it didn't activate the metal detector in Auckland but did at Papeete and LAX. This tells you how laxed security here really is, and the security screenings are done by a government department in NZ as well (Aviation Security Service).
I like that.
I don't think there's any such thing as a "moderate Muslim".
Arabic tribalism and Islam is apparently a volatile mix. If we need to remove all Arab Muslims in order to remove the few terrorists from our midst, so be it.
Is this cure worse than the illness? I don't think so. Any objection is abstract; the threat of murder is reaL. Sometimes you have to remove the whole organ that contians a few cancer cells in order to save the entire body. And to carry thge analogy further, the Arab Muslim community is not exactly a vital organ for us.
It's time for Europe and the US to kick out all Arab Muslims back to the sands of Allah's armpit, and keep them out. Arab Muslims don't have to be here; the West doesn't have to welcome them in so that some can easily target our own children and women. If Arab Muslims can't activley police their own communities, and often in fact give their radical elements at least tacit support, then it's time for Arab Muslims to go back and live off the fat of their own medieval economies.
I'm glad you've heard and answered your wake-up call. It's a mistake to think that any purportedly moderate Muslim is really going to be reasonable. After some horrific terrorist attack the Muslims I live near and work with shake their heads and say, "Oh, that's so sad," and then invariably add, ". . .but. . ." The "but" always places the blame for an atrocity squarely on the victim who in some way failed to free Palestine, become Muslim, etc.
Islam is an evil cult. There are doubtless some kind people who are Muslims--naive women mostly, I suspect--but it teaches the opposite of what Christianity does: it teaches hatred, death, lack of compassion, eradication of western values, of freedom, of initiative, of thought. It is fascism on the march. It is terrible.
When the goal is universal acceptance of sheria, what is "moderation"?
Me, too! The Patriot Act should be strengthened. If you come to America to live you should be willing to be open to scrutiny. If you have nothing to hide, then what's to fear?! I would like to see all Muslims in this country go home (and I personally know some "nice" Muslims) and no more allowed in the U.S. You know what they say, "Never trust a smiling dog."
The Silence of the Muslim world is DEAFENING!!!
I am so OVER Muslims.
Go home to your pre historic culture! And take your Burkas and Allah with you!
I confess that I haven't had a conversation with a Muslim for years. Decades, I imagine. And, where I live, there are none to be seen.
Still, I have made the presumption that the vast majority of American Muslims, at least, are appalled by events like 9/11 and 7/7. As I think about it, though, I am not aware of any news stories reporting Muslim leaders denouncing the actions of terrorist and terrorist acts such as these.
It could be that the MSM chooses not to broadcast these denunciations. Or it could be, I suppose, that they have not been forthcoming.
In any event, experiences such as your father's cause me to wonder...
Amen and Amen!!! Not politically correct to say so, but go home! I live in California (not from here, from Indiana). In Oregon they have bumper stickers that say, "To Californians: Welcome to Oregon! Now go Home!!"
We could have bumper stickers to say the same: To Muslims: Welcome to America!! Now go Home!!
Cut them to the quick and all Muslims are just "moderate" as your friend. Simple tribalism, I think.
But don't forget The rantings of the Wahabbi mullahs are more doctrinally orthodox than the "moderates".
In one sentence: muzzies are raised to believe that infidels - that would be all non-muslims - are not quite human.
So...however they treat us, lie to us until they are strong enough to take over etc. is seen by muzzies (even the moderates) as virtuous. (I read today that there are suicide bomber baseball type cards circulating in Palestine)
You put their brain-washing madrassas schools on top of that base and the wonder is that you don't have even more raving lunatics, eager to die for islam.
As it is within their so called ummah, they consider it halal..
I heard some Arabs are asking for an apology. I humbly offer mine here:
I am sorry that the last seven times we Americans took up arms and sacrificed the blood of our youth, it was in the defense of Muslims (Bosnia, Kosovo, Gulf War 1, Kuwait, etc.).
I am sorry that no such call for an apology upon the extremists came after 9/11.
I am sorry that all of the murderers on 9/11 were Arabs.
I am sorry that Arabs have to live in squalor under savage dictatorships. I am sorry that their leaders squander their wealth.
I am sorry that their governments breed hate for the US in their religious schools.
I am sorry that Yassir Arafat was kicked out of every Arab country and hijacked the Palestinian "cause."
I am sorry that no other Arab country will take in or offer more than a token amount of financial help to those same Palestinians.
I am sorry that the USA has to step in and be the biggest financial supporter of poverty stricken Arabs while the insanely wealthy Arabs blame the USA.
I am sorry that our own left wing elite and our media can't understand any of this.
I am sorry the United Nations scammed the poor people of Iraq out of the "food for oil" money so they could get rich while the common folk suffered.
I am sorry that some Arab governments pay the families of homicide bombers upon their death.
I am sorry that those same bombers are seeking 72 virgins. I can't seem to find one here on Earth.
I am sorry that the homicide bombers think babies are a legitimate target.
I am sorry that our troops died to free more Arabs.
I am sorry they show so much restraint when their brothers in arms are killed. I am sorry that Muslim extremists have killed more Arabs than any other group.
I am sorry that foreign trained terrorists are trying to seize control of Iraq and return it to a terrorist state.
I am sorry we don't drop a few dozen "Daisy Cutters" on Fallujah. (Note: a "Daisy Cutter" is a 10,000 lb bomb, used to clear helicopter landing zones)
I am sorry every time terrorists hide they find a convenient "Holy Site".
I am sorry they didn't apologize for driving a jet into the World Trade Center that collapsed and severely damaged Saint Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church - one of our Holy Sites.
I am sorry they didn't apologize for flight 93 and 175, the USS Cole, the embassy bombings, etc.
I am sorry Michael Moore is American; he could feed a medium sized village in Africa.
I am sorry the French are french?
America will get past this latest absurdity. We will punish those responsible because that is what we do. We hang out our dirty laundry for all the world to see. We move on. That's one of the reasons we are hated so much. We don't hide this stuff like all those Arab countries that are now demanding an apology.
Deep down inside, when most Americans saw this reported in the news, we were like - so what? We lost hundreds and made fun of a few prisoners. Sure, it was wrong, sure, it dramatically hurts our cause, but until captured we were trying to kill these same prisoners. Now we're supposed to wring our hands because a few were humiliated? Our compassion is tempered with the vivid memories of our own people killed, mutilated and burnt amongst a joyous crowd of celebrating Fallujans.
If you want an apology from this American, you're going to have a long wait. You have a better chance of finding those 72 virgins.
If you are "sorry" also, use this link...
Dad: Do you really mean it? All the people died there are innocent deaths!
Owner: But they have killed many Muslims as a nation!
It's amazing, isn't it? For all the hollow words from some/many in the Muslim community, when it comes down to it, they are like broken records. Those innocent Londoners had it coming because the west has killed Muslims. Disgusting. And a definite wake up call to us all, thanks for sharing.
It never ceases to amaze me that the libs here in the US (perhaps elsewhere, too?) sympathize with the terrorists, spout verbatim the kind of line this shopkeeper and so many others use, that we somehow had it coming, yet fail to realize that they, too, are targets and all their misplaced sympathies won't save them or get them special treatment.
The day after the 9/11 attacks, our newspaper printed a quote from a 14 year old American born Palestinian boy from north Jersey : "Now they know how we feel."
Now I know how they think. I look at even the most Westernized Muslims with suspicion. Fellow Muslims are their first loyalty.
During the cold war,we would not let in peaceful, moderate Communists who just wanted to make the world Communist in a peaceful moderate way.
How many of us are going to have to die before we stop letting them in?
I hope law enforcement -- of Britain, I suppose -- examines the above picture, identifies the individuals, convicts them of treason, and then imprisons or deports them.
And, I hope their extended families go immediately on a no-immigrate, no-visit list asap.
It's worth noting, however, that the original post was about a conversation with a Persian, and the Persians are of course not Arabs.
Many faithful Muslims live in a mental space in which life and the world are strongly divided between two extremes - the Muslim community and infidels.
Now then, there may be Muslims who are doing something wrong - but, they are on the Muslim side of the divide, they are not infidels. To a faithful Muslim, they can and should be dealt with by Muslims but all infidels are beneath any Muslim and cannot presume to render "justice" on a Muslim. Any infidel who does must be rejected by a true Muslim, no matter what error the "offending" Muslim committed.
In this way, whatever evil Sadaam and the terrorists committed is irrelevant, the US and the Brits cannot be allowed to kill Muslims. They are infidels and they are beneath ANY Muslim, according to God's prophet.
You see, you are fighting a dominant mindset of the majority of people in an entire religion. In the long run, it matters little if they are in Al Queda or quietly selling rugs in the shop next door. They will be at war with you in some way.
Mabye we should send this "moderate" back to Iran so he can be reminded why he is in the United Kingdom.
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