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To: highball
"Neither Hamilton and Madison, the two men most responsible for constructing the Constitution and getting it ratified, were in Congress for the signing of the Declaration."

Do I take this to mean they wouldn't have signed it, and that they weren't like-minded with the Declaration signers? Does this mean that the Founding Fathers would not have framed our Constitutional laws strictly on the basis of the freedoms and values that the Delcaration of Independence espouses?

I hope you don't mean this, because nothing could be further from the truth.

The original reason for my post was to prove that the Framers would not have wanted to separate religion from government in the manner being perpetrated on us by government today: The First Amendment was clearly understood and explained by the man who wrote it and the man who first applied it as law. Fisher Ames wrote the First Amendment. He also wrote that the Bible should always remain the principle text book in America's classrooms.


"Before the formation of this Constitution this Declaration of Independence was received and ratified by all the States in the Union, and has never been disannulled". Samual Adams
The Constitution itself connects itself to the Declaration of Independence by dating itself from the date of the Declaration of Independence, thereby showing clearly that it is the second great document in the government of these United States and is not to be understood without the first.

The Founders dated all their government acts from the year of the Declaration rather than the Constitution. The date of the Declaration of Independence was the recognized date of Sovereignty and Independence of the United States.

In the Declaration, the Founders established the foundation and the core values on which the Constitution was to operate. The Constitution was never to be interpreted apart from those values expressed in the Declaration.


The U.S. Supreme Court declared on at least several occassions, (below) that it's unsafe to separate the Declaration from the Constitution:

, "the Constitution is the body and letter of which the Declaration of Independence is the thought and the spirit, and it is always safe to read the letter of the Constitution in the spirit of the Declaration of Independence" U.S. Supreme Court, Gulf, C. & S. F. R. CO. v. Ellis, 165 U.S. 150 (1897)

"The first official action of this nation declared the foundation of government in these words: "We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. "----it is always safe to read the letter of the Constitution in the spirit of the Declaration of Independence". SCOTUS, Cotting v. Godard, 183 U.S. 79 (1901)


"It is to be remembered, that the government of the United States is based on the principles promulgated in the Declaration of Independence, by the congress of 1776; "that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness; and that to secure these rights, governments are instituted." 1841, The Amistad, 40 U.S. 518 (1841)


"History will also afford frequent opportunities of showing the necessity of a public religion...and the excellency of the Christian religion above all others, ancient or modern." Benjamin Franklin



30 posted on 07/11/2005 4:53:37 PM PDT by TheCrusader (("the frenzy of the Mohammedans has devastated the churches of God" Pope Urban II)
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To: TheCrusader

You are free to twist it all you want. The fact that you must tie yourself into such knots illustrates the folly of your argument. The Founders wanted to keep faith and state separate, Hamilton perhaps more so than any other. And since Hamilton is largely the one responsible for our Constitution, I defer to his judgment.


31 posted on 07/11/2005 8:40:46 PM PDT by highball ("I find that the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have." -- Thomas Jefferson)
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