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To: Zack Nguyen
I've been on this fourm awhile, and I don't see the calls for theocracy as you do.

I have been on a thread recently here relating to "Is Europe Dying?" The Freeper I have been in lengthy discussions with openly prefers theocracy to democracy. A year or two ago, I was on several threads relating to the religious movement to secede and establish a Christian nation. At that time I ran into a number of posters who were clearly pro-theocracy (at least to the point where the Bible was the principal and supreme law). As for now, anyone who subscribes to a Christian test for any justice or other official in effect subscribes to a theocracy.

I'll tell you what I think. I would like to see Christianity, through the democratic process of the grassroots voting their preferences, be the predominant ethic in our culture including our government.

This is the slippery slope I refer to. It will ultimately not end until there is an official religion in this Country, Christianity. And then of course, the battle begins for which Christian religion takes precedence. And what of Islam, or any of the other non-Christian religions. If religion is a religion of and for the individual as you say, why does it have to permeate our government and its policies?

But our nation was overwhelmingly Christian when it was founded, and it was more free that anywhere on earth.

True, and before the First Amendment, it was moving precipitously towards theocracy. Almost every nation-state within the Confederation between 1776 and 1789 had Christian only tests for government officials. When you exclude members of society from the government for religious reasons, you create artificial classes within the nation. Forcing Christianity on folks is not the way to salvation for either the people or the nation.

Today it is less Christian that in has ever been, and is now less free and more socialistic. I believe there is a causal relationship here.

History would not agree with you. First Christianity is by far the most populous religion in the US and the world. It outnumbers the next by almost a 2 to 1 margin. You are correct in that Christianity in the US has dropped from 97% in 1900 to about 85% now. But the population of the US is still by far Christian! Yes, it's more socialistic, but that's pretty easily explained by a USSC that was stacked by FDR for that very purpose. As for a freer nation, you may want to provide some examples.

Finally, like the other poster I have been discussing Europe with, he tends to correlate a drop in the population rate with a drop in Christianity. That is a fallacy of logic. The two may or may not be correlated, but simply showing two facts occurring at the same time does not create a cause and effect relationship. Both the changes in America and those in Europe are far too complex for that.

But politics aside, Christianity starts with a person acknowledging their sinful nature before God. Christ came to forgive and to heal. Government has no part in that other than to get out of the way.

We agree completely.

40 posted on 07/12/2005 8:40:50 AM PDT by MACVSOG68
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To: MACVSOG68
A couple of quick points - it is Christian theology to hold that God is the ultimate, supreme judge. At the end of time, you and I and every person that has ever lived will be judged. We will be judged by God's standard, the only true and legitimate one.

That's why the Civil Rights movement pointed to the God of the Bible in making their case for equality. That's why we point today to the God of the Bible when making our case for the unborn or religious freedom. So God is the ultimate judge, and we know what God's values are through His Bible. So as I said before I would certainly favor judges that recognize God's sovereignty, because I think my freedoms are much safer that way.

If religion is a religion of and for the individual as you say, why does it have to permeate our government and its policies?

That's a great question, and goes to the heart of where you and I disagree. Receiving Christ must be done individually. Acceptance or rejection of Christ's forgiveness is a personal decision. Yet God's jurisdiction does not end in the human heart. His jurisdiction is the whole world which He created. Once they believe, Christ orders his followers to bring their Christianity to bear into every aspect of their lives. Thus Christians are, as Christ said, "the salt of the earth" and "the light of the world." Christians are everywhere, and are doing everything. When we are following Christ, everything we do should be for His glory. Thus Christianity is personal, but not private. That is why I am involved in politics explicitly as a Christian. I could not do otherwise and remain true to my Lord.

But the population of the US is still by far Christian!

I very much disagree. The statistics you site prove only that a sizable number of people attend church or claim to "be a Christian." It does not prove that even a majority of Christians have explicitly asked for forgiveness through Jesus Christ and been born again. That is what a Christian is, regardless of what people say. The United States is more secular humanist now than at any time in its history. That it still remains the most Christian-influenced society on earth really isn't saying much. The fundamental premise from which we as a culture reason is humanistic and Darwinist to the core. Our loss of freedoms to socialism can be tied directly to this as well, I believe.

A year or two ago, I was on several threads relating to the religious movement to secede and establish a Christian nation.

I don't take that sort of thing too terribly seriously.

47 posted on 07/12/2005 10:47:24 AM PDT by Zack Nguyen
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