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'Judicial murder' and Terri Schiavo [by Nat Hentoff]
The Washington Times ^ | July 11, 2005 | Nat Hentoff

Posted on 07/11/2005 12:27:13 PM PDT by aculeus

While editorials across the nation agreed in chorus that at last, Terri Schiavo will rest in peace, the autopsy report declined such certainty:"It is the policy of this office that no case is ever closed and that all determinations are to be reconsidered upon receipt of credible, new information." Even if no new information surfaces, how Terri Schiavo was put to death is causing many Americans to confront their own death.

Pat Anderson, for a long time the attorney for Terri Schiavo's parents, said the day Terri died of dehydration as ordered by the courts and her husband: "Euthanasia in America now has a name and a face." Dr. Jon Thogmartin's autopsy report made clear that Terri Schiavo was not dying, let alone terminal. As Dr. Carl D'Angio wrote in a June 21 letter in the New York Times: "Her family loved what was left of her and asked only to be permitted to care for her at their own expense. My question is, who or what was better served by her passive execution by water deprivation than by the first alternative?"

(Excerpt) Read more at washtimes.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial
KEYWORDS: euthanasia; nathentoff; schiavo; schindler; terri; terrischiavo; terrischindler; wifekiller
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1 posted on 07/11/2005 12:27:15 PM PDT by aculeus
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To: aculeus
Hentoff is a liberal's liberal. But he full well understands right-to-life issues.

It's good to have him on our side.

2 posted on 07/11/2005 12:38:19 PM PDT by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: IGNORANCE ON PARADE)
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To: aculeus

Oh BOO HOO!


We have over a MILLION abortions a year and we are upset over an ADULT???


Give me a break!


3 posted on 07/11/2005 12:40:04 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: okie01
Hentoff is a liberal's liberal.

He's too real for that -- more like a person's person. Nah, he transcends labels. I have no idea ... he's Hentoff, and that's good enough.

4 posted on 07/11/2005 12:43:06 PM PDT by GOPJ
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To: aculeus

bump


5 posted on 07/11/2005 12:44:21 PM PDT by tutstar ( <{{--->< OurFlorida.true.ws Impeach Judge Greer)
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To: Nightshift; floriduh voter; 8mmMauser; amdgmary; cyn; Future Useless Eater

ping


6 posted on 07/11/2005 12:45:17 PM PDT by tutstar ( <{{--->< OurFlorida.true.ws Impeach Judge Greer)
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To: GOPJ
Hentoff is one of the few commentators around who thinks things through for himself and doesn't let himself be swayed if some of his allies come out with something different. Knows his jazz too.
7 posted on 07/11/2005 12:46:22 PM PDT by colorado tanker (The People Have Spoken)
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To: Elsie

How many starved adults will it take to upset you?


8 posted on 07/11/2005 12:46:32 PM PDT by tutstar ( <{{--->< OurFlorida.true.ws Impeach Judge Greer)
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To: tutstar
JUSTICE FOR TERRI JULY DAILIES:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1437721/posts

and bttt.

9 posted on 07/11/2005 12:49:07 PM PDT by floriduh voter (www.terrisfight.org & www.conservative-spirit.org... The Schindlers "Never again.")
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To: Elsie
We have over a MILLION abortions a year and we are upset over an ADULT???

Doesn't sound as if the "we" there includes you.

10 posted on 07/11/2005 12:52:14 PM PDT by madprof98
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To: Elsie
You don't grasp that this opens the door for many other disabled people to be murdered? That means children and adults. Terri is a symbol for the disabled community. This is often overlooked. The disabled community knows full well this puts them in danger.

Euthanasia and abortion are promoted by the same scum including the ACLU. Or, some people are just Terri haters or Terri supporter haters. Are you one of them?

11 posted on 07/11/2005 12:52:38 PM PDT by floriduh voter (www.terrisfight.org & www.conservative-spirit.org... The Schindlers "Never again.")
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To: madprof98

We better do something aboaut euthanasia and abortion. Let me see... No more judicial tyranny.


12 posted on 07/11/2005 12:53:42 PM PDT by floriduh voter (www.terrisfight.org & www.conservative-spirit.org... The Schindlers "Never again.")
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To: Elsie

It's an ancient principle that every single life is precious.

Incidentally, Hentoff has never hesitated to speak out against abortion.


13 posted on 07/11/2005 12:54:45 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Elsie

I'm upset at both, abortions and the death of Terri equally. Both are examples of our country at its worst.


14 posted on 07/11/2005 12:55:46 PM PDT by BloomNTn
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To: tutstar

Nat Hentoff gets it. Florida politicians and judges do not.

15 posted on 07/11/2005 12:55:51 PM PDT by floriduh voter (www.terrisfight.org & www.conservative-spirit.org... The Schindlers "Never again.")
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To: Future Useless Eater; amdgmary; EternalVigilance; russesjunjee; Sun; Republic

VOTE NO ON FLA SENATOR JIM KING in 2006.

16 posted on 07/11/2005 12:59:17 PM PDT by floriduh voter (www.terrisfight.org & www.conservative-spirit.org... The Schindlers "Never again.")
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To: cyn; wildandcrazyrussian; Halls
Disabled Floridians can be murdered now based upon hearsay evidence as of July 1, 2005.

http://www.theempirejournal.com/070405_Hearsay_law_Florida.html

17 posted on 07/11/2005 1:03:05 PM PDT by floriduh voter (www.terrisfight.org & www.conservative-spirit.org... The Schindlers "Never again.")
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To: Elsie

Are you an adult? If you were starved and dehydrated to death, would anyone be upset? If I may answer that for you; Yes. A lot of people would be upset. A few people would complain about the majority of people not liking it. A handful of people would make jokes about it. There would be the usual comments about poetic justice. Most of us would be upset.


18 posted on 07/11/2005 1:04:22 PM PDT by BykrBayb (Impeach Judge Greer - In memory of Terri Schindler <strike>Schiavo</strike> - www.terrisfight.org)
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To: aculeus

Hentoff sums it up perfectly.


19 posted on 07/11/2005 1:04:59 PM PDT by Tribune7
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To: okie01

"It's good to have him on our side."

A self described atheist and against the death penalty?


20 posted on 07/11/2005 1:07:44 PM PDT by Smartaleck
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To: Elsie

Do you think that Terri's life was any less precious to our Lord than any one of those aborted babies? All are precious in His sight.


21 posted on 07/11/2005 1:10:25 PM PDT by texgal (end no-fault divorce laws return DUE PROCESS & EQUAL PROTECTION to ALL citizens))
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To: Elsie

The state allows the choice of abortion. The execution of Terri was ORDERED by the state.


22 posted on 07/11/2005 1:10:40 PM PDT by Eastbound (Jacked out since 3/31/05)
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To: Elsie

Because they'll be killing both now. This is the slippery slope in action. Elderly, Disabled, Womb.

I saw a lot of comments like that when Roe v. Wade came into being. "It's just if the mother's life is in danger"; Living in a building where it's not unusual to see a 23 year old that's had five or six abortions...at the taxpayers expense, and children being taught about sex in the second and fourth grades...

Apparently you didn't see the House meeting on States and Insurance...I kept hearing that the elderly and disabled take up almost 70% of their funds (meaning...you guessed it, someones thinking about trimming the fat). Meanwhile, no one spoke about hospitals closing and the Medicaid/Medicare systems shutting down in states because of immigration.

Had those children been born, there would be no Social Security problem...most would be in the workforce, we wouldn't have to outsource or hire illegal immigrants.

As a mother of a disabled daughter, who was asked several times to disconnect her (She is perfectly fine...fourth grade, highest scores...walks, even though they said she never would...etc.), I ask if you can even imagine the terror going through the hearts of the disabled over this?
Would it matter if I told you they (Felos, lawyers for Euthanasia Society), went directly to fourteen states (two they have already), to file for right to death?

Yes, we are upset over one adult...that one adult is us. Do you also agree that a non-terminal patient (who by Florida Statues should not have been admitted to a hospice...Felos was on the board of directors), should be slowly starved to death? What does that say about our humanity? If you start with one...you'll go to the other.

People don't see what's happening right before their eyes. Where were the women's rights groups, ACLU...fighting for her to die. The same position they have for unborn females. This should tell you something.


23 posted on 07/11/2005 1:11:51 PM PDT by AliVeritas (Ignorance is a condition. Stupidity is a strategy.)
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To: floriduh voter

Who were the dems who voted against Terri? Would love to have pictures with that...


24 posted on 07/11/2005 1:12:00 PM PDT by GOPJ
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To: Elsie

To No. 3:

Agreed that the abortion issue is a tragesty. But to give an inch anywhere at this point is not just a minor point. It opens the door to extreme abuse, and if you don't think it possible read more about it from statistics in Holland. Now doctors as well as family feel it is their duty to terminate the ill, the aged, the newly born with serious challenges, etc. Consider this: How would you like it if your wife delivered a child premature and it had shallow breathing and severe jaundice, but otherwise after a struggle for a time for the lungs to mature, would likely live a normal life? Now walks in a nurse or doctor who feels that using ultraviolet light and O2 for a premie is a tragesty when resources could be used for something else. They decide on their own to pull the O2 and disconnect a few tubes and by 4 hours later the infant is in severe anoxia and having seizures. The doctor now decides that the baby has other significant problems and decides the baby should die. End of story.


25 posted on 07/11/2005 1:12:51 PM PDT by Shery (S. H. in APOland)
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To: tutstar

When it's forty million I guess. Welcome to Nazi Germany.


26 posted on 07/11/2005 1:13:04 PM PDT by AliVeritas (Ignorance is a condition. Stupidity is a strategy.)
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To: colorado tanker

A person's person who knows jazz -- cool.


27 posted on 07/11/2005 1:13:14 PM PDT by GOPJ
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To: floriduh voter

Beautiful. You know McCabe dropped Jeb's investigation last week BTW.


28 posted on 07/11/2005 1:14:01 PM PDT by AliVeritas (Ignorance is a condition. Stupidity is a strategy.)
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To: Eastbound

And I say taxpayers should be offered a choice of whether they want to pay for abortions.


29 posted on 07/11/2005 1:16:30 PM PDT by AliVeritas (Ignorance is a condition. Stupidity is a strategy.)
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To: GOPJ

That would be a big image file.


30 posted on 07/11/2005 1:17:49 PM PDT by AliVeritas (Ignorance is a condition. Stupidity is a strategy.)
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To: Smartaleck
"It's good to have him on our side."

A self described atheist and against the death penalty?

An atheist, true. But one with a nonetheless well-developed sense of right and wrong. A lot of good people are against the death penalty. The Pope, for one.

He's also an atheist who believes abortion qualifies as a legal sin -- he's characterized Roe v Wade as being the Dred Scott of the 20th century.

I repeat: It's good to have Hentoff on our side.

31 posted on 07/11/2005 1:22:12 PM PDT by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: IGNORANCE ON PARADE)
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To: Elsie
You wrote: "Oh BOO HOO!...We have over a MILLION abortions a year and we are upset over an ADULT???...Give me a break!"

I find that some human possibilities, like compassion and zeal for justice, are not strictly divisible. Having compassion for one person does not decrease the "amount" of compassion available for all; in fact, it tends to increase it. Likewise having a zeal for justice for one person, opens up the channels of justice for others, too.

Try this. It works.

32 posted on 07/11/2005 1:25:35 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of Life.)
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To: AliVeritas
That would be a big image file.

Yes, it would be...

33 posted on 07/11/2005 2:00:51 PM PDT by GOPJ
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Insightful. Thanks!


34 posted on 07/11/2005 2:04:51 PM PDT by bvw
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To: floriduh voter

Elsie seems to not care about life, regardless of age.


35 posted on 07/11/2005 2:07:24 PM PDT by Halls (Terri Schindler Schiavo was murdered legally in our country, NEVER FORGET!!!)
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To: biblewonk

Ping.


36 posted on 07/11/2005 2:10:47 PM PDT by newgeezer (Just my opinion, of course. Your mileage may vary.)
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To: AliVeritas
"And I say taxpayers should be offered a choice of whether they want to pay for abortions."

I think a better choice would be for the ones wanting an abortion to secure non-tax funding to pay for it or not have an abortion.

Taxation of pro-life folks to pay for some else's abortion forces the tacit consent of pro-lifers for abortion.

Government is consequentially perverting and dictating the terms of the religious, moral, and ethical beliefs of Citizens by forcing them to underwrite the cost of abortion and its support mechanisms.

The same could be said for the peculiar variety of sex education -- normalizing perverions in the public schools.

37 posted on 07/11/2005 2:36:10 PM PDT by Eastbound (Jacked out since 3/31/05)
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To: aculeus

38 posted on 07/11/2005 2:37:25 PM PDT by drpix
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To: Halls

Elsie appears to Love Wife Abusers and Wife Murderers,those that will use the most heinous of Tortures to complete their task of Murdering an innocent person.Maybe I am wrong, but thats the way it looks from here.


39 posted on 07/11/2005 2:42:09 PM PDT by True Republican Patriot (Facts don't Bother the Left! GOD BLESS TERRI and Her Real Family)
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To: Elsie

So using your logic, one hit-and-run fatality is nothing. You'll just wait until the hit-and-run fatalities get into the millions before you get upset?

BTW, I vaguely remember you from older threads. You're one of FR's pro-abortion token leftists.


40 posted on 07/11/2005 3:14:24 PM PDT by k2blader (Was it wrong to kill Terri Shiavo? YES - 83.8%. FR Opinion Poll.)
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To: floriduh voter

Barf. One of the most disgusting sights-- pro-death (R)'s.


41 posted on 07/11/2005 3:15:56 PM PDT by k2blader (Was it wrong to kill Terri Shiavo? YES - 83.8%. FR Opinion Poll.)
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To: aculeus
Terri's death was in my opinion a judicially sanctioned and supported murder. I am not intimately involved enough in her case to make an opinion any further, but I can repeat my personal exeriences with people repeating the lie perpetrated by the mainstream media. The MSM characterized her condition as vegetative and on life support without describing her as needing a simple feeding tube unlike the mental images conjured up of breathing machines and such.

Terri's individual case was surely a states rights case and as such I will NOT voluntarily support the state of Florida. What was a federal case though is the federal condemnation of the Nazi tactic of ridding society of innocent, but undesirable citizens employed by the state of Florida.

This practice MUST be condemned and banned by the United States government regardless of what the individual states do.

Being a disabled person myself if this practice is allowed to spread then it is only a matter of time for me.

42 posted on 07/11/2005 3:48:57 PM PDT by libill (The first casualty of War is Truth-disputed origin)
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To: Elsie

At what level of disability do you consider a person to have lost their right to life under the Constitution?


43 posted on 07/11/2005 4:12:46 PM PDT by nina0113
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To: libill
Speaking of that, we just visited an uncle who is in a nursing home for a few days, and he was sitting up talking and joking. He has a little difficulty walking but gets an hour therapy a day.

Now the critical factor is this: HE HAS A FEEDING TUBE! I didn't even notice it and was told only later.

I wonder how many people would say he should be killed like Terri Schindler (-schiavo) because of a feeding tube? That's no more a life-support system than a wheelchair is.

44 posted on 07/11/2005 4:50:50 PM PDT by wildandcrazyrussian
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To: Shery; All

The 'door' has BEEN open for years.

NOTHING will get any better on this slippery slope UNTIL abortion is illegal again.


That is the elephant in the room!


45 posted on 07/11/2005 5:20:49 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: Halls

Did you miss the implied sarcasm tag??


46 posted on 07/11/2005 5:21:54 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: k2blader

Your rememberer is REALLY vague, indeed!

(And wrong...)


47 posted on 07/11/2005 5:23:05 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: nina0113
Ah...

...but I'm NOT the one that has the POWER to DO anything about these crimes.

What part of "life, liberty, pursuit of happines" don't the courts seem to understand?

48 posted on 07/11/2005 5:35:18 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: Elsie

Our Founders wanted all to clearly understand that none of these God-given (natural) rights could be taken away unless we did something specific to cause that loss and that that action was to be proven before a jury of our peers or due process of law. The fifth amendment makes it clear that even if we are accused of a crime we do not lose our basic rights. The proper implementation of habeaus corpus helps guarantee these rights, including the basic right to life, using the exact language which Jefferson originally used in the Declaration: "no person (an unborn baby is a person) shall... be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of the law."

The fourteenth amendment reiterates this basic principle: "nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law."

Can anyone tell us what crimes unborn children have committed for which they should lose their lives? Of course agruments which support abortion are pure nonsense and evil in nature.

This goes directly to the heart of Roe v. Wade and unequivocably proves that the Supreme Court made an unconstitutional decision. This is specifically why the pro-abortion folks do not want unborn children recognized as a "person."




(And why Terri was declared to be a 'non-person' to be able to eliminate her.)


49 posted on 07/11/2005 5:38:32 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: Elsie; All



If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no recourse left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government, and which against the usurpations of the national rulers may be exerted with infinitely better prospect of success than against those of the rulers of an individual State. In a single State, if the persons entrusted with supreme power become usurpers, the different parcels, subdivisions, or districts of which it consists, having no distinct government in each, can take no regular measures for defense. The citizens must rush tumultuously to arms, without concert, without system, without resource; except in their courage and despair. -- , Federalist No. 29 Quote on Government
LC
======================
Truth is violated by falsehood,
 but it is outraged by silence.

50 posted on 07/11/2005 5:39:59 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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