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Karl Rove, the New York Times, and the Fifth "Why"
Red State ^

Posted on 07/12/2005 1:14:59 PM PDT by hipaatwo

The 5 Whys is a technique used in the Analyze phase of the Six Sigma DMAIC methodology, a tool for improving the quality of various processes. By repeatedly asking the question "Why", you can peel away the layers of symptoms which can lead to the root cause of a problem.

In observing the media go after Karl Rove like a pack of sharks in a feeding frenzy, it becomes apparent that no one has done this. There are several more "whys" to be asked, and no one is asking them.

This all started on July 6, 2003, when Joseph Wilson published an op-ed in the New York Times concerning the famous "Sixteen Words" used by President Bush in his State of the Union address that year. Mr. Wilson suggested that the White House should have known that the Sixteen Words were not true, because he himself had traveled to the African state of Niger at the request of the CIA a year before the speech and debunked the intelligence. Mr. Wilson also appeared on Meet the Press that day, and was the subject of an article by Richard Leiby and Walter Pincus in the Washington Post. His "revelation" caused quite a stir.

(Excerpt) Read more at redstate.org ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: cialeak; plame; rove; wilson
(snip)

That leaves us with one unanswered Why.

Why would the New York Times stonewall the special prosecutor they themselves asked for, to the point that Judith Miller would go to jail before revealing who told her about Wilson, Plame, and the CIA? Judith Miller never even wrote an article; what the New York Times ran was an op-ed written by Wilson himself. Can it be that the person she talked to wasn't an "Administration Official" at all, but a Democratic political operative setting up a "media hit" on Bush?

1 posted on 07/12/2005 1:15:00 PM PDT by hipaatwo
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To: hipaatwo

(snip)

Wilson, a former ambassador to Gabon who served as an Africa expert in the second Clinton administration, has long been friendly with leading Democrats." Writing in the Washington Times, Helle Dale quotes Wilson as saying, "Neo-conservatives and religious conservatives have hijacked this administration, and I consider myself on a personal mission to destroy both.


2 posted on 07/12/2005 1:17:11 PM PDT by hipaatwo (When you're in trouble you want all your friends around you...preferably armed!)
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To: hipaatwo

The media spent the last year arguing that since it was clear that no crime was committed, they should not be required to respond to a grand jury. Now they claim that Rove is implicated in this non-existent crime, and should therefore resign.


3 posted on 07/12/2005 1:20:55 PM PDT by Brilliant
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To: hipaatwo

Has anyone asked why Matt Cooper's bosses gave up his emails? Is it because it was Karl Rove whose name was mentioned. If it were a prominent Democrat would they have given in so easily?


4 posted on 07/12/2005 1:23:44 PM PDT by msnimje
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To: hipaatwo

I'm usually the first person to mock this kind of conspiracy, but man, the pieces are all right there--two married Gore supporters, one in the CIA, who hate the administration; one of them appoints the other to investigate something that can discredit the administration; later, his data is proven to be false, and the story is about the "leak"?? Hmmm...


5 posted on 07/12/2005 1:28:22 PM PDT by Darkwolf377 ("Familiarity doesn't breed contempt, it IS contempt."--Florence King)
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To: msnimje
Read THIS - turns out that the reason Cooper's e-mails were sought is because they prove the whole thing was a complete setup by the DemoncRATs and media. Cooper called Rove under separate auspices and then used the whole thing to make up the story that WH people were calling them.
6 posted on 07/12/2005 1:43:40 PM PDT by Steven W.
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To: hipaatwo

I think Mr. Wilson got an inferiority complex from watching too many "Dennis the Menace" episodes as a child.


7 posted on 07/12/2005 1:48:21 PM PDT by HisKingdomWillAbolishSinDeath (Doctors may delay your death, but only Jesus Christ can save your life.)
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To: hipaatwo

It can't be stressed enough that almost nothing Wilson said was true. This became a story when Wilson signed on to the Kerry campaign. This is DNC foul play, and nothing more.

Wilson wasn't sent by anyone in authority at the CIA, he didn't report back to anyone. He didn't investigate anything, he never even went out to the mine sites. He didn't do anything he couldn't have done over the phone from his apartment in the US.

All he did was ask government and mine officials if they were making any illegal uranium sales, and then repeat their denials. We have since learned that they were selling uranium off the books to Libya, which makes his assertion that "France and Niger are US allies... they wouldn't do that..." laughable.

Besides which, Iraq's mission to Niger is public knowledge, and Niger officials mentioned it to Wilson... but Wilson failed to make mention of it in his op-ed piece, because it didn't fit his case.

Wilson's claim that illegal sales couldn't happen because the mines were monitored by the IAEA is also laughable, because they weren't. The IAEA asked the Niger government to permit such inspections but such permission had never been granted. Not that IAEA inspections would have meant anything, since North Korea's nuclear program was carried out right under the noses of the inspectors, who saw nothing for 8 years.

Wilson is a liar, and a Kerry operative. His lies are simple to pick out by anyone with above-zero curiosity levels.


8 posted on 07/12/2005 1:59:14 PM PDT by marron
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To: Darkwolf377

" I'm usually the first person to mock this kind of conspiracy, but man, the pieces are all right there-two married Gore supporters "

Speaking of spouses- Cooper is married to Mandy Grunwald, former Clinton advisor.
Can't you just see Cooper, if he didn't know already , hanging up the phone and saying
" Honey, what's Joe Wilson's wife's name ? "
Grunwald's sister Lisa, was at one time considered to be the author of Primary Colors.
These people are all plugged in and I believe that the media frenzy is to provide cover for the real leakers, especially if no indictments or reports are returned from the GJ.
The media is Richard Jewelling Karl Rove.
The biggest scandal, IMHO, is who at the CIA signed off on sending a diplomat, rather than a seasoned investigator to pursue such a sensitive intelligence issue.

I also noted that Cooper used the word " apparently," in describing what Rove said to him,
" KR said, wilson's wife, who apparently works at the agency on wmd issues "
Sounds like Rove wasn't even sure if she worked there.


9 posted on 07/12/2005 2:03:32 PM PDT by Wild Irish Rogue
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To: Shermy; Wolfstar; cyncooper; Fedora
Why would the New York Times stonewall the special prosecutor they themselves asked for, to the point that Judith Miller would go to jail before revealing who told her about Wilson, Plame, and the CIA? Judith Miller never even wrote an article; what the New York Times ran was an op-ed written by Wilson himself. Can it be that the person she talked to wasn't an "Administration Official" at all, but a Democratic political operative setting up a "media hit" on Bush?

Well, well, well. What have we here...???

10 posted on 07/12/2005 2:03:53 PM PDT by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: IGNORANCE ON PARADE)
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To: YHAOS
Count yourself among the pings in #10.
11 posted on 07/12/2005 2:06:56 PM PDT by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: IGNORANCE ON PARADE)
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To: hipaatwo

Another why?

Does anyone believe that Judith Miller would be in jail to protect Rove if he were the leaker? They would have given this information up within days of the story if the leaker was Rove.

Since they didn't divulge Rove as the leaker, he couldn't be the leaker.

The only solution that makes sense is that the reporters are covering for a Dem who is the leaker, most likely Wilson himself.


12 posted on 07/12/2005 2:10:55 PM PDT by RobFromGa (Send Bolton to the UN!)
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To: okie01

What we have here is RatherGate II, or III, or IV. IMO, this is just a leftover from the 2004 Campaign. There's no doubt that the RATS and MSM colluded on inventing phony stories in their attempt to bring down Dubya. The reason they're hanging onto this one is to bring down the best GOP operative since Lee Atwater ahead of next year's elections.

It also helps distract attention from the fact they have no ideas, or strategy aside from obstruction and pretending they're still relevant.


13 posted on 07/12/2005 2:16:22 PM PDT by ABG(anybody but Gore) (Ketchup Boy is the George Costanza of the US Senate)
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To: okie01
Can it be that the person she talked to wasn't an "Administration Official" at all, but a Democratic political operative setting up a "media hit" on Bush?

For me, this raises another "why": why did the Democratic operative's media hit on Bush dovetail with French intelligence's attempt to plant the phony Niger documents on British and American intelligence?

14 posted on 07/12/2005 2:21:52 PM PDT by Fedora
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To: ABG(anybody but Gore)
The reason they're hanging onto this one is to bring down the best GOP operative since Lee Atwater ahead of next year's elections.

This whole mess has made me see the light-- No way I'm voting for Karl Rove in 2008. The GOP will have to put up another candidate for President if they want my vote.

15 posted on 07/12/2005 2:24:53 PM PDT by RobFromGa (Send Bolton to the UN!)
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To: ABG(anybody but Gore)
this is just a leftover from the 2004 Campaign. There's no doubt that the RATS and MSM colluded on inventing phony stories in their attempt to bring down Dubya.

As Rush would say, you swerved into it -- the real story.

There have been reports of a Democrat Senatorial Policy Committee meeting in January, 2003, held at one of the Senator's homes. In the wake of the November, 2002 election, it was resolved that the Democrats had to undertake "a plan to undermine the President's credibility".

Among the invited guests at this meeting were Nicholas Kristof (of the NYTimes), Walter Pincus (of the WaPo)...and Joseph C. Wilson IV (whether representing himself, the Saudis or dissident elements in the CIA is unclear).

It is intriguing, is it not, that the first identifiable leaks of Wilson's "mission" came from Kristof's column and Pincus' reporting. Plus, an account reported by BBC attributed to "a CIA operative" (i.e., likely Plame herself)?

This whole affair was a cynical set-up orchestrated by the liberal Democrats and their fellow travellers in the media and the bureaucracy.

16 posted on 07/12/2005 2:26:33 PM PDT by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: IGNORANCE ON PARADE)
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To: hipaatwo

Maybe her source was Mrs. Plame...


17 posted on 07/12/2005 2:30:07 PM PDT by JeffersonRepublic.com (Visit the Jefferson Republic for a conservative news portal.)
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To: Fedora
For me, this raises another "why": why did the Democratic operative's media hit on Bush dovetail with French intelligence's attempt to plant the phony Niger documents on British and American intelligence?

Could it have had anything to do with Wilson's second wife -- Jacqueline? She was a cultural attache for the French diplomatic corps -- a common cover for intelligence postings.

Or, perhaps, a member of the Democrat Senatorial Policy Committee had especially good contacts within DGSE and was able to ask a "favor"?

Or were the French merely covering their own ass with respect to an ongoing smuggling operation supplying yellowcake to rogue regimes?

Personally, I would be inclined toward the latter...

18 posted on 07/12/2005 2:37:56 PM PDT by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: IGNORANCE ON PARADE)
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To: okie01
The latter is an interesting theory. In his book, Wilson rules out the latter on the grounds that "COGEMA, as the managing partner, would have had to know and be complicit", COGEMA being the division of the French state-owned nuclear energy firm AREVA that controls uranium production in Niger. So in other words, Wilson was supposedly sent to investigate whether Iraq was trying to buy uranium from Niger, and according to him he ruled that out on the grounds that the French would have had to have been complicit. . .Then after exonerating the French with his thorough 8-day "investigation", he turns around and helps put a media hit on Bush citing the same documents the French previously tried to push on Bush. But the only angle to the story that the Washington Post, New York Times, Newsweek, etc. find worth covering is whether Karl Rove leaked the name of an agent the CIA had pulled off undercover work in 1997. . .which raises another why: why do people like Matthew Cooper, Judith Miller, Michael Isikoff, and Walter Pincus consider themselves journalists, when they're not even good fiction writers?
19 posted on 07/12/2005 2:58:12 PM PDT by Fedora
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To: okie01; Fedora; hipaatwo
Or were the French merely covering their own ass with respect to an ongoing smuggling operation supplying yellowcake to rogue regimes?

Considering what we now know, which is that most of Libya's uranium came from Niger, off the books, I would agree with you.

French intel paid to have the documents prepared, the documents were prepared by people at the Niger embassy, and then French intel passed them to US intelligence. They were then exposed by a French member of the IAEA.

The exposure of these docs was used to discredit the idea that Niger and France were involved in contraband sales of uranium, something we now know to be true.

By the way, anyone else remember that US Navy intel reported contraband uranium being held in a warehouse at the port where Niger's ore ships out; they reported it to CIA, who waited a month to check it out. No, nothing there, they reported.

20 posted on 07/12/2005 3:01:33 PM PDT by marron
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To: RobFromGa; okie01; Fedora; All

I'm at the point where I'm just going to wait till this is over. I don't think Rove is stupid enough to do what the Dem's are accusing him of. It's all speculation until the prosecutor ends this case.


21 posted on 07/12/2005 3:07:42 PM PDT by hipaatwo (When you're in trouble you want all your friends around you...preferably armed!)
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To: marron; Fedora
The interesting thing about the smuggling operation is that it was based on ore from works that had supposedly been abandoned. In this respect, COGEMA and the Niger government would have "plausible deniability".

However, ore alone does not yellowcake make. This contraband ore had to be processed somehow, presumably in a plant located in the immediate neighborhood (the yield from unprocessed ore being so low as to mitigate against its shipment over any distance).

So, were they running a clandestine third shift? How was the ore processed into yellowcake in such a way as to be not only "off the books" but clandestine, as well? Or were they augmenting the input by, say, 1%, then skimming 1% of the production?

The point being that somebody at COGEMA knew what was going on, while the dupes in the Nigerien government probably knew nothing.

22 posted on 07/12/2005 3:17:37 PM PDT by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: IGNORANCE ON PARADE)
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To: hipaatwo
This all started on July 6, 2003, when Joseph Wilson published an op-ed in the New York Times concerning the famous "Sixteen Words" used by President Bush in his State of the Union address that year. Mr. Wilson suggested that the White House should have known that the Sixteen Words were not true, because he himself had traveled to the African state of Niger at the request of the CIA a year before the speech and debunked the intelligence.

Wilson's "intelligence" gathering by his own admission was limited to a weekend of sipping sweat tea and conducting interviews at his hotel. Wilson also failed to file a written report of his "intelligence" gathering.

Thank goodness that the Bush administration requires a little more proof and documentation before setting any national policy.

23 posted on 07/12/2005 3:19:32 PM PDT by RJL
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To: Fedora
which raises another why: why do people like Matthew Cooper, Judith Miller, Michael Isikoff, and Walter Pincus consider themselves journalists, when they're not even good fiction writers?

One might say that, in today's journalists, there seems to be a certain lack of curiosity...

24 posted on 07/12/2005 3:19:52 PM PDT by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: IGNORANCE ON PARADE)
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To: hipaatwo

I was kidding, I am not aware that Rove plans to run for anything...


25 posted on 07/12/2005 3:21:13 PM PDT by RobFromGa (Send Bolton to the UN!)
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To: okie01; marron; piasa; Shermy; cyncooper; Mo1; MJY1288; Dog; Howlin; kcvl
Very interesting thoughts on the implications of the Libyan operation and the question about how clandestine processing could've been managed. I'm wondering if the discussion on this thread might point towards some clues:

Evidence of Niger uranium trade 'years before war'

Piasa noted this in #11:

Another interesting tidbit is that the documents are alleged to have arrived in the hands of the Italian journalist in precisely the same month- October- that the US NIE was completed and released- and the same time as the UK media reports defector's claims that an Iraqi agent named Nadhim Jabouri had been sent to arrange for the acquisition of specialized aluminum tubes for its enrichment process from South Africa. The info comes from an INC source who, if I'm not mistaken, was apparently correct about Iraq's effort to obtain magnets from Germany.

My note: Also in October there were rumblings about a North Korean attempt to procure uranium from Congo.

I'm also wondering if Glencore might have played a role here:

Shady Iraq oil deals: The ANC connection

Majali was drawn into controversy in 2001 when a Swiss company, Glencor International, was ordered to pay the United Nations $3-million for violating sanctions on Iraq. Glencor's South African partner at the time was Montega Trading, headed by Majali.

26 posted on 07/12/2005 3:47:00 PM PDT by Fedora
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To: hipaatwo

Gee, none of these people had a problem with Sandy Berger when he stuffed classified documents down his pants, took them home, and shredded them. Instead, it was dismissed as "sloppiness" on the part of Berger - nothing more.


27 posted on 07/12/2005 4:00:52 PM PDT by GreenHornet
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To: hipaatwo

Everyone in the media is screaming for Karl Roves head because they said he leaked the information. But theres poor Judith Miller rotting in jail. If Rove is the leaker, if Judith sold him out by saying he was the leaker, she would rise to a level that scank Helen Thomas could only dream about! The libs would crown her as the next Edward R. Morrow with boobs! Yet she remains totally silent. Very interesting!


28 posted on 07/12/2005 4:14:31 PM PDT by Bommer
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To: RobFromGa

So Miller is writing for the NYT on issues of WMD.

Plame is working for the CIA as an analyst on issues of WMD.

We know Pincus and his wife have these elite media DC cocktail parties that Wilson and the little Mrs. have attended.

It can't be too far off the reservation to think that Miller and Plame had met at one of these parties and that Plame may even have been a source in the past for some of Miller's writings.

I say Miller's the leaker and the NYT knows it. They have her bundled up in jail as they try to hold on to their last shred of credibility with anybody anywhere in the world.


29 posted on 07/12/2005 4:18:59 PM PDT by terilyn
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To: Fedora

Bump fpr a later read


30 posted on 07/12/2005 4:24:12 PM PDT by Mo1 (We will stay in the fight until the fight is won ~~~ President G.W. Bush)
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To: Fedora

I love this stuff...


31 posted on 07/12/2005 4:47:40 PM PDT by marron
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To: okie01; Fedora
The interesting thing about the smuggling operation is that it was based on ore from works that had supposedly been abandoned. In this respect, COGEMA and the Niger government would have "plausible deniability".

What constitutes an "abandoned" mine could just be a paperwork exercise, it doesn't necessarily mean its actually played out. You simply show on your company records that you are no longer working that site.

The people working that site don't work for you, they work for Acme Uranium Scavengers Incorporated, which no one can prove has anything to do with you.

And, in any case, who is going to prove anything one way or another? IAEA wasn't operating in the country, despite what Wilson said. Travel into the mining area requires a special permit, which you can't get. Wilson says he didn't travel to the site; he didn't mention that you aren't allowed to travel there.

32 posted on 07/12/2005 5:09:42 PM PDT by marron
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To: msnimje
Has anyone asked why Matt Cooper's bosses gave up his emails?

Because Time, Inc itself was subpoenaed for the documents and did not want to go bankrupt paying contempt fines.

33 posted on 07/12/2005 5:46:00 PM PDT by cyncooper
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To: hipaatwo

ping


34 posted on 07/12/2005 5:59:13 PM PDT by TNdandelion
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To: marron
What constitutes an "abandoned" mine

I guess the definition of an abandoned mine is a mine that no one is working on when the inspectors drop by :-)

From considerations such as the ones you mention, it's clear Wilson's investigation could've at best produced a limited amount of information about Iraqi attempts to purchase uranium from Niger, and certainly could not have settled anything definitively. And Wilson surely knew this, yet he chose to portray his investigation as decisive anyway.

35 posted on 07/12/2005 6:18:20 PM PDT by Fedora
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To: hipaatwo
It's strange, isn't it, that the entire thing revolves around a handful of liberals at newspapers, at the CIA, making a concerted effort to discredit the administration, yet the real crook is (somehow) supposed to be a republican.

What are the odds of that?

36 posted on 07/12/2005 6:33:16 PM PDT by Reactionary
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To: Wild Irish Rogue
That's a great point, I forgot about the Grunewald (sp) connection.

This is actually going to be a tough one for the libs to pull off, and I wish McClellan would have the cojones to hit back on this with "The leaking of facts is one thing, but why would you reporters exacerbate the problem by reporting them?" Plame was in no "danger" while the reporter was talking to Rove--she was in danger when the reporter and Novak wrote their stories.

I'm not not not talking about curtailing the free press; I'm talking about putting the blame where it belongs.

37 posted on 07/13/2005 1:23:08 PM PDT by Darkwolf377 ("Familiarity doesn't breed contempt, it IS contempt."--Florence King)
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