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Freeper Thoughts on the Plame Kerfuffle
Vanity | 07/12/2005 | RightFighter

Posted on 07/12/2005 6:55:21 PM PDT by RightFighter

I'm wondering who everyone thinks the actual leaker is. Remember that Novak stated that it's not who we think it is and that it's a highly placed government official who is "no partisan gunslinger".

My gut tells me this is what happened:

Cooper calls Rove about welfare reform. At the end of the conversation, he asks Rove about Wilson. Rove tries to warn him off the story, mentioning that Wilson's wife, who apparently works at CIA, arranged for Wilson to go to Niger.

Miller catches wind of this conversation, perhaps through a conversation with Cooper or perhaps she asked Rove a similar question. Anyway, Miller wants to confirm this portion of the story, so she does some digging to find out the NAME of Wilson's wife.

The key question then, is, who does Miller call to get the name?

My guess is George Tenet. He would have certainly known the name. He was definitely a highly placed government official, and he certainly would not be considered a partisan gunslinger, having worked as CIA Director under both Presidents Clinton and Bush. Plame had been working in Washington during Tenet's entire tenure at CIA I think, so it's certainly possible that he didn't think that she could possibly be considered covert, so he didn't think he was doing any harm by revealing her name.

This would also explain the NYT stance on this whole matter. They would rather see Rove twist in the wind while their reporter-ette sits in a country club saying nothing than they would like to see the truth come out. The truth in this case would totally exonerate the administration and cast the blame on a CLINTON appointee!!!

There may be nothing to this, but take note of this post, because it may be one that you go looking for in a couple of months to say "didn't that guy RightFighter post Tenet's name on FR a while back?"

This is from Wikipedia at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valerie_Plame:

21 July 2003: Newsday article "Columnist Names CIA Iraq Operative" by Timothy M. Phelps and Knut Royce attributes intelligence information independently leaked to them about Plame as coming from "intelligence officials" and a "senior intelligence official." . Both have been subpoenaed in the Plame investigation.

Interestingly, I noticed this on Wikipedia too. I didn't realize that Wiki was biased, but I guess this proves it:

July 11, 2005: Rove's lawyer/paid liar says, "Rove did not mention her name to Cooper." This one might actually be true, in its lie-y way.


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: cia; cialeak; judithmiller; kerfuffle; leak; matthewcooper; niger; plame; rove; uselssvanity; wilson
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Post your thoughts or your own ideas about who the leaker(s) was(were).
1 posted on 07/12/2005 6:55:22 PM PDT by RightFighter
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Comment #2 Removed by Moderator

To: RightFighter

Richard Clarke...former terrorist czar.


3 posted on 07/12/2005 6:58:25 PM PDT by JediForce (DON'T FIRE UNTIL YOU SEE THE WHITES OF THE CURTAINS THEY ARE WEARING ON THEIR HEADS !)
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To: RightFighter

Much ado about nothing.


4 posted on 07/12/2005 6:58:35 PM PDT by TADSLOS (Right Wing Infidel since 1954)
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To: RightFighter
I guess what I don't understand is: I thought Novak's article was the one in which Plame was "outed." All this mess is about Rove talking to Cooper. What am I missing?
5 posted on 07/12/2005 6:59:05 PM PDT by wizardoz
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To: RightFighter
I think Miller and Cooper et al. are working in tandem with the Dems to make it seem like a bigger deal than it is. No crime has been committed. Rove signed a waiver in 2003, yet Miller goes to jail to protect Rove of all people?

But if Miller goes to jail then the public perception among those only sorta paying attention becomes "Wow, this must be a big deal."

Read York's article in National Review on this. It's very telling.

6 posted on 07/12/2005 6:59:37 PM PDT by SittinYonder (America is the Last Beach)
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To: RightFighter

wilson


7 posted on 07/12/2005 7:00:12 PM PDT by golfisnr1 (Democrats are like roaches, hard to get rid of.>)
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To: RightFighter
I think this is a fabricated liberal story.
Cooper twisted his story.
Miller is her own source, so she can't name a source. Now she is caught in her own web. She will spend her time writing a book. Hoping to make millions.
Rove has ethics and will stay above the fray and the democrats will sizzle all summer. I say just let the democrats fall in their own stew.
8 posted on 07/12/2005 7:01:02 PM PDT by fabriclady
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To: RightFighter
I'm wondering who everyone thinks the actual leaker is.

*sigh*

Wilson himself. He had his wife's name and CIA status right on his own website. It was for every one in cyberspace to see. It was long before the Rove e-mail.

This was reported today on FOX - It was on "The Big Story" with John Gibson.

9 posted on 07/12/2005 7:01:48 PM PDT by concerned about politics ("A people without a heritage are easily persuaded (deceived)" - Karl Marx)
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To: RightFighter

10 posted on 07/12/2005 7:01:50 PM PDT by TonyInOhio (Would I lie to you?)
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To: RightFighter

Non story being beaten to death by the lib media because they're still sore about Gore.


11 posted on 07/12/2005 7:02:31 PM PDT by Indy Pendance
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To: RightFighter
No, the leaker is Miller herself. This is why the Times is paying her to sit in jail, while they attempt to create a story out of thin air that Rove is responsible. They are hoping that when the news comes out, it will only be a footnote, if they can get rid of Rove ahead of time. Miller may have lied to the Times too. Either way, we are going to win this one big.
12 posted on 07/12/2005 7:02:35 PM PDT by Pukin Dog (Sans Reproache)
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To: Pukin Dog

Well that would explain your article from earlier this evening. Very insightful, I might add.

However, Miller herself as the leaker doesn't fit with Novak's assertion that it was a senior administration official.


13 posted on 07/12/2005 7:03:50 PM PDT by RightFighter
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To: Pukin Dog

It was on FOX today!!! It was Wilson!!


14 posted on 07/12/2005 7:04:08 PM PDT by concerned about politics ("A people without a heritage are easily persuaded (deceived)" - Karl Marx)
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To: All

I believe it was Joe Wilson myself. Where has he been lately? Question, did anyone see Lou Dobbs talk to John Dean tonite? Disgusting.


15 posted on 07/12/2005 7:05:34 PM PDT by newconhere
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To: RightFighter

I think Wilson is probably Miller's source. Her name was freely available on his website. Or so I've heard.

If he was claiming to have been sent by the administration, Miller/The NY TIMEs, would have felt they could get away with calling him a highly placed administration insider.


16 posted on 07/12/2005 7:06:37 PM PDT by Duke Nukum (To thine own self be true...or relatively true. --Guy Caballero)
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To: concerned about politics

Without a doubt it was Wilson. What I can't figure out is why anyone would think Karl Rove would give Cooper permission to disclose that he was the leaker? If I were Rove, I would come out and say "I did not have sex with that woman, Valerie Plame" and leave it at that.


17 posted on 07/12/2005 7:07:33 PM PDT by trustandobey (Delay 2008!)
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To: Pukin Dog
I think Miller is the guilty party, too. It's going to make the media look bad even worse.
18 posted on 07/12/2005 7:09:51 PM PDT by AlGone2001 (I'm still waiting to hear from the RNC Chairman)
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To: wizardoz
What am I missing?

Novak cooperated with the investigators to avoid big doo-doo, but he's keeping mum 'til the investigation's over and all the cards are on the table (probably a condition of his grand jury testimony).

I've seen a couple of names that came to my mind: Richie Clarke (doubtful) and Wilson hisself (probably).

19 posted on 07/12/2005 7:09:59 PM PDT by randog (What the....?!)
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To: RightFighter

Colonel Mustard, in the conservatory, with a hunk of pipe.


20 posted on 07/12/2005 7:12:23 PM PDT by Blogatron (- Automated Freeping Device. (Please insert 2 cents for the next rightist harangue))
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To: RightFighter
It was the Vanity Fair photographer that caught her in full-blown spy attire (sunglasses and Jacqueline Kennedy-esque headscarf) being driven to work (a CIA-Langley desk job) by her husband (a confirmed doofus).
21 posted on 07/12/2005 7:13:43 PM PDT by SERKIT ("Blazing Saddles" explains it all.....)
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To: Blogatron

lol


22 posted on 07/12/2005 7:13:54 PM PDT by newconhere
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To: trustandobey

I dont think you can say without a doubt it was Wilson, unless you have some knowledge, we dont.

Im just waiting till the prosecutor has finished with the case and then we will know.


23 posted on 07/12/2005 7:16:09 PM PDT by mikenash
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To: RightFighter

I can't be bothered until the press gets excited about Sandy Berger. ;)


24 posted on 07/12/2005 7:16:30 PM PDT by Half Vast Conspiracy (If their Chief of police is okay with it, I am guessing that we should probably be okay with it.)
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To: RightFighter
The key question then, is, who does Miller call to get the name?

Judith Miller reported on WMD issues. Plame worked in a CIA department that specialized in WMD issues. Chances are pretty good that they knew each other.

At the very least, she would have known Plame's boss -- Alan Foley (who retired without warning a month after the balloon went up and ranks high on the list of suspects as one of Novak's two sources).

25 posted on 07/12/2005 7:16:57 PM PDT by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: IGNORANCE ON PARADE)
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To: RightFighter

Nobody but RABID DEMO LIBERAL JOURNALISTS care who the leaker is for a CIA File Clerk.


26 posted on 07/12/2005 7:17:04 PM PDT by agincourt1415 (4 More Years of NEW SHERIFF IN TOWN!)
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To: randog
Novak cooperated with the investigators to avoid big doo-doo, but he's keeping mum 'til the investigation's over and all the cards are on the table (probably a condition of his grand jury testimony)

No, but what I mean was... I thought NOVAK'S article was the first one to "out" Plame. Am I wrong? I just can't remember anymore.

27 posted on 07/12/2005 7:17:28 PM PDT by wizardoz
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To: RightFighter

I am just wondering who photographed the Kerfuffle, and can anyone identify it as Plame's.


28 posted on 07/12/2005 7:18:18 PM PDT by ARealMothersSonForever (We shall never forget the atrocity of 11 Sept.)
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To: RightFighter

The only person Miller is worth sitting in jail for is Wilson

Anybody else could be "spun" by the media. It has to be Wilson

How stupid would the NYT look if it was revealed Wilson was the leak.


29 posted on 07/12/2005 7:19:37 PM PDT by Popman (In politics, ideas are more important than individuals.)
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To: RightFighter
I think the real question that needs to be asked is WHO PAID FOR WILSON'S YELLOW CAKE JUNKET TO NIGER so he could do his "research" for his "book" and his NYT op-ed hit piece.

Was it the New York Times? His publisher? The American taxpayer? THAT IS THE QUESTION I'D LIKE TO SEE ANSWERED.

30 posted on 07/12/2005 7:21:42 PM PDT by FlingWingFlyer (We did not lose in Vietnam. We left.)
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To: RightFighter

The only people buying into this non-story are the libs that so desperately want to believe they have a smoking gun.

The right wages a war on terrorism to earn a safer world, the left wages a war on futility to gain political power.

Thank GOD the Gore and Kerry lost.


31 posted on 07/12/2005 7:24:02 PM PDT by Made In The USA (Tell me the SCOTUS was just kidding?!)
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To: RightFighter
Novak's leaker is another person. Don't forget that those in high positions within the State Department and the CIA are both considered to be members of the Bush Administration.
32 posted on 07/12/2005 7:26:43 PM PDT by Pukin Dog (Sans Reproache)
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To: RightFighter

I think the entire concept of a "leaker" is flawed. It is the media and the Wilson's which have sold this smoke screen to cover the real breach of federal regulations nepotism.

The fact is that revealing who sponsored Joe Wilson for the Africa trip was only relevant because it was a violation of the law. The fact that Joe had gone public with lies about classified CIA reports is not only against the law it is treason.

The rest is a carefully constructed smoke screen to cover for the real criminals ( The Wilson's) and to use as a political club against the Bush Administration.

And I think we need to write letters and call the Congress and the media and demand accountability.


33 posted on 07/12/2005 7:36:19 PM PDT by federal
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To: RightFighter
I'd venture that it was Valerie Plame herself. Her husband is getting all the press; writing the NYT best seller, while she is slowly toiling in anonymity.

What better way to get "outed" than let a very poorly guarded secret slip by talking to a Times reporter? After all, she does qualify as a "high administration official", if you stretch the administration tie.

Now that the whole world knows who she is, she can write a best seller describing her exploits when she was really a covert agent.

Of course, if she's revealed as the leaker, the house of cards comes tumbling down, crushing the Times under the rubble.

Remember, you heard it here first....

34 posted on 07/12/2005 7:49:14 PM PDT by par4 (If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything)
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To: RightFighter
Could it be the big mouth in the car?

35 posted on 07/12/2005 7:51:44 PM PDT by armymarinemom (My sons freed Iraqi and Afghanistan Honor Roll students.)
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Comment #36 Removed by Moderator

To: trustandobey
Without a doubt it was Wilson. What I can't figure out is why anyone would think Karl Rove would give Cooper permission to disclose that he was the leaker?

Rove gave Cooper the OK to say anything he wanted. Rove knew he didn't do anything wrong. Cooper never claimed Rove was a "leaker," just that he talked to him about "Joe's wife" via an e-mail. Rove never gave her name, but people already knew it anyway. Wilson had it on his website - complete with her CIA status. It was there for the world to see!

37 posted on 07/12/2005 8:05:48 PM PDT by concerned about politics ("A people without a heritage are easily persuaded (deceived)" - Karl Marx)
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To: Baynative
Assuming it is in fact Cooper's conversation with Rove from which Cooper learned Plame's identity, then that means that Cooper had to do additional research of his own to determine Plame's identity and subsequently reveal her identity to the world. That would mean that there is no leaker inside the government and that it is Cooper himself who is to blame for revealing Plame's identity and he (Cooper) is the one who should be prosecuted. If that is not the case, then it means Cooper learned Plame's identity from some other source than the Rove conversation, there is a leaker, and the leaker is not Rove.

The whole thing makes me so mad I could spit. Of course the dumocrats know it's all a farce. They started it as a distraction from the fact that Wilson's report was totally discredited and are now using it as the distraction of the moment to divert attention from Senator Dick's foul words and to try to weaken the President in advance of the SCOTUS battle. BTW, where were all these folks who are so concerned about protecting government agents involved in the GWOT a couple weeks ago when Senator Dick was calling those same government agents Nazis & worse?!
38 posted on 07/12/2005 8:06:31 PM PDT by lame_internet_name
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To: FlingWingFlyer

it was CIA-sponsored. They're te ones that called for the trip in the first place


39 posted on 07/12/2005 8:08:49 PM PDT by Doug2464
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To: Pukin Dog

I agree with you. Additionally, I think Ms.Miller is trying to stall to try to find out what the special prosecutor and grand jury knows. But this just is not leaking, so she is in a world of hurt. If she lies in the grand jury the SP will know and prosecute her for perjury and obstruction. If she tell the truth that the sequence is from Plame (or Wilson) to Miller to another media person, then she is guilty of what the NYT alledged against Rove and the White House. Either way, Bush/Rove wins. The only crime to be prosecuted is the one Miller is about to commit.


40 posted on 07/12/2005 8:09:48 PM PDT by Texas Songwriter
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To: RightFighter
Well, when this whole shebang started, Joe Wilson immediately pointed the finger to Rove as the leaker. Since none of the journalists (Cooper-Miller-Novak) published the names of their sources, it makes me wonder why Wilson even brought Rove's name up. Out of all the people who work at the White House, why Rove?

Wilson's article appeared on July 6th, 2003. Novak's article appeared on July 14th. The Justice Dept. opened up their leak investigation the end of September, but the revelation of the Cooper-Rove phone call of July 11th, 2003 didn't come to light until just now. So how, on the 21st of August 2003, did Joe Wilson know to blame Rove for the leak? It was on that date, at a forum on intelligence failures in Iraq, that Wilson stated:

"It's of keen interest to me to see whether or not we can get Karl Rove frog-marched out of the White House in handcuffs. And trust me, when I use that name, I measure my words."

It's obvious from this comment that Wilson had it in for Rove. And his statement of having a "keen interest...to see whether or not we can get Karl Rove frog-marched out of the White House in handcuffs," sounds almost as if it was a plan that was in the works.

The real question that needs to be asked is which reporter did Wilson talk to and when? Was it Cooper, Miller or Novak...or was it all three? Before his August 21st comments, which reporter told Wilson about their phone conversation with Rove? There has to be a connection in all of this between Wilson and one or more of those reporters. I can't see why Wilson would have brought Rove's name up on August 21st, unless he had been fueled with info from one of these individuals. Perhaps Wilson saw it as a chance to squelch Bush's reelection if he could get Rove out of the picture. And what better way to do it than to create a scandal where none existed and point the finger at the man who was in charge of getting Dubya relected.

41 posted on 07/12/2005 8:15:36 PM PDT by mass55th (Courage is being scared to death - but saddling up anyway~~John Wayne)
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To: RightFighter
Here is my only thought on this entire subject...



Yaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnnn....

Nobody cares about this except the media and democrats.
42 posted on 07/12/2005 8:16:07 PM PDT by myself6 (Nazi = socialist , democrat=socialist , therefore democrat = Nazi)
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To: Blogatron
"Colonel Mustard, in the conservatory, with a hunk of pipe."

Or as my then 4 year old son yelled out when we were playing "Clue" years ago: "It was Mr. Green Jeans with the lead pipe...up his hiney!"

Don't ask me where he got that one from.

43 posted on 07/12/2005 8:21:34 PM PDT by mass55th (Courage is being scared to death - but saddling up anyway~~John Wayne)
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To: RightFighter
Nice analysis - - I like the way you think.

A big question I have right now is WHY the person who "leaked" to Miller won't step forward? That person has allegedly given Miller a general waiver, freeing her to name him/her as her source before the grand jury. Miller claims to believe that the waiver was coerced by the special prosecutor, and she therefore claims that she doesn't trust that her source actually wants to be named.

I think Miller is a liar. I do not believe for a second that she is protecting a "source" - - I believe that she is protecting her employer (the NY Times) and her party from a major embarrassment.

44 posted on 07/12/2005 8:21:46 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: RightFighter

I don't think it matters at all. There was no "leak" mainly because there was no secret. According to Novak, pretty much everybody in the DC party circuit knew that Valerie worked for the CIA.

Yes, she'd once been undercover, but after she was outed by Ames to the Russians in about 93 or 94 she was useless (and not safe) as a covert operator anymore, and they brought her home way back then where she worked an admin position.

There was nothing to leak.


45 posted on 07/12/2005 8:23:34 PM PDT by Ramius
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To: mass55th

Great post!


46 posted on 07/12/2005 8:28:39 PM PDT by Judith Anne (Thank you St. Jude for favors granted.)
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To: concerned about politics
"Wilson himself. He had his wife's name and CIA status right on his own website. It was for every one in cyberspace to see. It was long before the Rove e-mail."

If true and since presumably Wilson learned of his wife's identity from Plame herself, then it is Plame who revealed her identity to Wilson and Wilson who in turn revealed her identity to the world, thus making both of them guilty of revealing the identity of a 'secret' government agent. If it is a crime to reveal the identity of a secret agent, then presumably it is still a crime even for the agent herself to do the revealing.
47 posted on 07/12/2005 8:30:04 PM PDT by lame_internet_name
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To: trustandobey
Repetez Si Vous Plait
Without a doubt it was Wilson. What I can't figure out is why anyone would think Karl Rove would give Cooper permission to disclose that he was the leaker? If I were Rove, I would come out and say "I did not have sex with that woman, Valerie Plame" and leave it at that.
I really liked this! Thanks
48 posted on 07/12/2005 8:34:35 PM PDT by stocksthatgoup (http://www.busateripens.com)
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To: okie01

Plame's boss Alan Foley should have retired waaaaaaaay before he did. Just suffered through reading transcript on testimony he gave re John Bolton. The guy could barely recall his own name - much less anything else. The whole time I'm thinking "this guy was CIA????"


49 posted on 07/12/2005 8:36:57 PM PDT by daybreakcoming (May God bless those who enter the valley of the shadow of death so that we may see the light of day.)
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To: RightFighter
By the way, I have a feeling that Miller's "source" might be Colin Powell, who may have spilled the beans innocently and off-handedly. Remember, Plame's last "cover" was as a State Department employee and that the State Department is a known nest of appeasing, globalist, Euro-socialist, Bush-hating Democrats. It was from this position at State that Plame got sneaky and sent her husband on an unauthorized trip to Niger in order that he could fabricate a bogus story to try to damage Bush. Plame used the simpleminded, love-struck Wilson as her chump. (By the way, I wonder how many secrets Plame was able to suck out of foreign agents.... But I digress.)

VALERIE PLAME, of all people, HAS BEEN GIVEN A COMPLETE PASS in all of this, and I don't know why. It is my contention that Valerie Plame is the ultimate scumbag in this whole disgraceful fiasco.

50 posted on 07/12/2005 8:39:44 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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