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Karl Rove was whistleblower - was the good guy in this
Real Clear Politics.com ^ | 13 July 2005 | edcoil

Posted on 07/13/2005 7:06:55 AM PDT by edcoil

Karl Rove, Whistleblower He told the truth about Joe Wilson.

Wednesday, July 13, 2005 12:01 a.m. EDT

Democrats and most of the Beltway press corps are baying for Karl Rove's head over his role in exposing a case of CIA nepotism involving Joe Wilson and his wife, Valerie Plame. On the contrary, we'd say the White House political guru deserves a prize--perhaps the next iteration of the "Truth-Telling" award that The Nation magazine bestowed upon Mr. Wilson before the Senate Intelligence Committee exposed him as a fraud.

For Mr. Rove is turning out to be the real "whistleblower" in this whole sorry pseudo-scandal. He's the one who warned Time's Matthew Cooper and other reporters to be wary of Mr. Wilson's credibility. He's the one who told the press the truth that Mr. Wilson had been recommended for the CIA consulting gig by his wife, not by Vice President Dick Cheney as Mr. Wilson was asserting on the airwaves. In short, Mr. Rove provided important background so Americans could understand that Mr. Wilson wasn't a whistleblower but was a partisan trying to discredit the Iraq War in an election campaign. Thank you, Mr. Rove.

The same can't be said for Mr. Wilson, who first "outed" himself as a CIA consultant in a melodramatic New York Times op-ed in July 2003. (snip)

If there's any scandal at all here, it is that this entire episode has been allowed to waste so much government time and media attention, As for the press corps, rather than calling for Mr. Rove to be fired, they ought to be grateful to him for telling the truth.

(Excerpt) Read more at realclearpolitics.com ...


TOPICS: Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: cia; cialeak; rove; whistleblower
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Not that you will ever here this in the MSM. How did our press get so out of control?
1 posted on 07/13/2005 7:07:00 AM PDT by edcoil
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To: edcoil

Simple, there are very few Americans left in either the MSM; or the U.S. government for that matter...


2 posted on 07/13/2005 7:13:01 AM PDT by FearNoMan
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To: edcoil


The colleges the under-educated "jurnos" in this country attend are breeding grounds for hate, anti-Americanism and sophistry...simple as that.


3 posted on 07/13/2005 7:14:37 AM PDT by in hoc signo vinces ("Soylent Green is People!")
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To: edcoil

John Gibson of FOXNews gave a good, pat-on-the-back to Rove last night... the rest of the lying, MSM just wallowed in watching Gregory's & Moran's attacks on McClellan!


4 posted on 07/13/2005 7:17:57 AM PDT by johnny7 ('Deservin ain't got 'nothin to do with it! -Will Money)
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To: edcoil
"As for the press corps, rather than calling for Mr. Rove to be fired, they ought to be grateful to him for telling the truth."

With regards MSM, to quote that great philosopher, Jack Nicholson, "They CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!"

5 posted on 07/13/2005 7:19:30 AM PDT by el_texicano
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To: edcoil

Technology allowed a two generation window for a small, motivated group of lefty cadres to control the media: Newspapers became local monopolies, and the TV networks had no rivals.


6 posted on 07/13/2005 7:19:55 AM PDT by NativeNewYorker (Don't blame me. I voted for Sharpton.)
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To: edcoil
In the aftermath of the Rathergate forged memo affair, I seem to recall certain voices within the MSM criticizing the White House for not stopping the publication of the fake (and Buckhead-debunked) memo. My recollection is that the memo was given to someone in the White House before CBS went public with it, and that the response was "no comment." When CBS went wall-to-wall with the pseudoscandal, and was subsequently unmasked by the previously mentioned Freeper (within about an hour), the process of unmaking Rather's career was initiated.

Recall that, by the time Rathergate happened, the press had already tried to ignite the Plame pseudoscandal once or twice with no success.

Could that be the reason why the WH was unwilling to set the MSM straight on the bogus Rather memo? After all, Karl Rove had already been burned by a reporter twisting his honest attempt to keep him from publishing a BS story into a "War On Ambassador Wilson." Why get slimed for your trouble again?

Apologies if this theory has already been floated.

(steely)

7 posted on 07/13/2005 7:39:19 AM PDT by Steely Tom (Fortunately, the Bill of Rights doesn't include the word 'is'.)
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To: edcoil
On the contrary, we'd say the White House political guru deserves a prize--perhaps the next iteration of the "Truth-Telling" award that The Nation magazine bestowed upon Mr. Wilson before the Senate Intelligence Committee exposed him as a fraud.

BUMP to that!

8 posted on 07/13/2005 7:58:56 AM PDT by concerned about politics ("A people without a heritage are easily persuaded (deceived)" - Karl Marx)
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To: edcoil

My own theory is that Novak, through senility or stupidity, inadvertantly inserted the name of Valerie into his article. Now he is covering up for himself.


9 posted on 07/13/2005 8:10:44 AM PDT by tkathy (Tyranny breeds terrorism. Freedom breeds peace.)
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To: Steely Tom
Recall that, by the time Rathergate happened, the press had already tried to ignite the Plame pseudoscandal once or twice with no success.
Could that be the reason why the WH was unwilling to set the MSM straight on the bogus Rather memo?

It could have just been more rope-a-dope. The rats always go for the cheese. They lack foresight. It's not like the administration doesn't know what they're up to.
Because they can't see past their own genitals, they make a lot of stupid mistakes.
In my opinion, The Bush administration is having a lot of fun playing with the democrats. Sure, it's tricky business, but every check mate is really funny. Bush &Co. know a LOT more about what's gong on behind the scenes than we do.
If this administration remains honest, the democrats will never get anything on them, because they'll always have to "prove it."

10 posted on 07/13/2005 8:13:00 AM PDT by concerned about politics ("A people without a heritage are easily persuaded (deceived)" - Karl Marx)
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To: edcoil

Think he'll be the Man of the Year like the 3 female whistleblowers were in 2003?


11 posted on 07/13/2005 8:14:28 AM PDT by SShultz460
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To: All

err 2002


12 posted on 07/13/2005 8:16:22 AM PDT by SShultz460
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To: edcoil

Has anyone seen President Bush's quote saying that he would fire anyone found to have leaked Plame's name? I don't think we've seen it because this is not what he said. The media is totally out of control and there are few places one can go to get the truth.


13 posted on 07/13/2005 8:28:31 AM PDT by Sangria
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To: edcoil

Has anyone seen President Bush's quote saying that he would fire anyone found to have leaked Plame's name? I don't think we've seen it because this is not what he said. The media is totally out of control and there are few places one can go to get the truth.


14 posted on 07/13/2005 8:29:55 AM PDT by Sangria
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To: edcoil

The Real question is why would Judith Miller go to jail to protect Karl Rove as her source? Not one press chimp would, so it can't be him


15 posted on 07/13/2005 9:25:35 AM PDT by Bommer
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To: Bommer
The Real question is why would Judith Miller go to jail to protect Karl Rove as her source? Not one press chimp would, so it can't be him

This investigation has gone WAY past "the source of the leak." The Feds are going after the Big Cahoona! The head Rats! The Big cheese! The whole Niger story. The whole trip was democrat controlled from the very start to the very end. ALL the players were left wing.
THAT'S why the democrats are in a state of mental chaos. THAT'S why the liberal press is screaming to cover the silence. THAT'S why Miller won't talk. I think she knows the whole story, from the beginning to the end. The "leak" investigation is now a cover for the big catch.

But, I could be wrong.©

16 posted on 07/13/2005 10:09:32 AM PDT by concerned about politics ("A people without a heritage are easily persuaded (deceived)" - Karl Marx)
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To: Steely Tom; Shermy; okie01
Could that be the reason why the WH was unwilling to set the MSM straight on the bogus Rather memo? After all, Karl Rove had already been burned by a reporter twisting his honest attempt to keep him from publishing a BS story into a "War On Ambassador Wilson."

Ping to an excellent premise.

17 posted on 07/13/2005 10:10:47 AM PDT by dirtboy (Drool overflowed my buffer...)
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To: Bommer

As you may know Judith Miller supposedly tipped off a "charitable" group that was sending money to the PLO; that they were under investigation. The group supposedly started shredding documents after the call, which undermined the case of the prosecutor at the time, the same Mr. Fitzpatrick.
It is possible that the source Miller is protecting is actually the person who tipped her off about the original investigation of the charity (possibly someone in Fitzpatrick own office). It is possible that the "source" being protected has nothing to do with the "Palme" case.

We may be talking about pay back against Judith Miller. Since it is widely acknowledged, that it is very unlikely any 'crime' was committed in the reporting of who Palme's employer was. It is hard to believe Rove or any one in the Bush administration would be foolish enough to perjure themselves and then hope a liberal reporter working for a liberal paper would protect them, and given the fact that this prosecutor has been working against terrorists and their supporters, the real current target of this probe could be reporters and anti-bush liberal government officials who leak information for political gain. This whole thing could boomerang on the left.
Why else the tough line on Judith Miller, she is not exactly the type nor is her employer the NYT who would go to jail to protect a Republican.


18 posted on 07/13/2005 10:13:49 AM PDT by Jonah Johansen ("Comming soon to a neighborhood near you")
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To: concerned about politics

"The whole trip was democrat controlled from the very start to the very end."

Pinging this theory to myself. I haven't heard anyone articulate this theory----Rush alluded to the liklihood that Miller is protecting a dem, but not the much bigger conspiracy such as you are suggesting.

Very interesting.


19 posted on 07/13/2005 10:13:56 AM PDT by wolf24
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To: wolf24
"The whole trip was democrat controlled from the very start to the very end."

Pinging this theory to myself. I haven't heard anyone articulate this theory----

Who paid for Wilson's trip? Not the CIA. Tenant didn't know anything about it. It all started with Plame. Her planning. Her financing. Her husband. The anti-Bush UN (and anti-Bush France and Germany) controlled African yellow cake.
Is that red flag material, or what?

20 posted on 07/13/2005 11:25:33 AM PDT by concerned about politics ("A people without a heritage are easily persuaded (deceived)" - Karl Marx)
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To: concerned about politics

"Is that red flag material, or what?"

Absolutely. What the overall bill be for a trip to Niger????


21 posted on 07/13/2005 11:26:58 AM PDT by wolf24
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To: wolf24
Absolutely. What the overall bill be for a trip to Niger????

Free? Sulzberger owns the NYT. There's also a Sulzberger that owns a German Travel Company. It offers personalized trips for individuals to AFRICA, America, Asia, South Seas, and Australia. Didn't Wilson claim he spent his time relaxing and sipping mint tea? How could Plame, an office worker, sponsor a trip like this without a little "help?"
Remember, Miller - who refuses to talk - works for the NYT, or Sulzberger!

22 posted on 07/13/2005 11:36:10 AM PDT by concerned about politics ("A people without a heritage are easily persuaded (deceived)" - Karl Marx)
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To: concerned about politics
There is surely a traceable record (unless already destroyed) of who actually authorized the expenditure of funds to pay for the trip (tickets, per diem). That record of authorization should also be present in Wilson's claim for reimbursement after the trip. Would be interesting to know who took responsibility... Valerie perhaps?
23 posted on 07/13/2005 11:37:00 AM PDT by RedEyeJack
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To: RedEyeJack
There is surely a traceable record (unless already destroyed) of who actually authorized the expenditure of funds to pay for the trip

If there is, the Feds have it. It all could have been destroyed or is unavailable if the NYT financed it through Germany.

24 posted on 07/13/2005 11:42:02 AM PDT by concerned about politics ("A people without a heritage are easily persuaded (deceived)" - Karl Marx)
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To: edcoil
Here's a challenge for you and anyone else who pops in - find a quote where Joe Wilson says the Vice-President asked him to go on the Niger trip, as the WSJ claims he said.

Sounds like the WSJ got their talking points.

25 posted on 07/13/2005 11:44:14 AM PDT by lugsoul ("She talks and she laughs." - Tom DeLay)
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To: edcoil
After familiarizing myself with this latest "scandal" (I haven't been as news addicted as I usually am, and the details of this have escaped me until now), I think it's important to note that if it DOES come out that Rove NAMED Plame to Cooper, then we should be consistent and demand his resignation.

That's what's confused me all this time as I familiarized myself with this story. I've read a few articles that appeared to (as this one does to those not familiar with the intricacies) praise Rove for naming Plame. I was starting to get a bit concerned as I was thinking that we were putting spin above ethics. This is not the case though; apparently (from what I can now figure) the conversation between Rove and Cooper was such that (as this article says) Rove outed Wilson as a benefactor of nepotism. IOW, Rove did NOT "name Plame", but his conversation was about Wilson.

As long as this remains the case, then I agree with this article that Rove should be commended for outing a case of nepotism in the CIA. However if Rove does turn out to be (one of) the source(s) that led to the identification of Valerie Plame as a CIA agent, then he should resign, and I hope everyone here agrees with me.

It's irrelevant to me whether or not that was "known in social circles inside the beltway for years". It's still against the law to identify CIA agents, as far as I know, in this manner, and as conservatives, unlike liberals, WE should respect the law.

So I'm crossing my fingers and hoping at this point. Rove seems to have walked a fine line here; I hope he didn't cross it for some cheap political victory.
26 posted on 07/13/2005 11:44:48 AM PDT by FourtySeven (47)
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To: edcoil
How did our press get so out of control?

They're constantly in search of a new Watergate. And there is no "there" there.
27 posted on 07/13/2005 11:49:52 AM PDT by Bush2000 (Linux -- You Get What You Pay For ... (tm)
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To: lugsoul
Vice-President asked him to go on the Niger trip

Cheny just didn't stop him. They said they were gong. What could Cheney do, because the trip was personally financed? That would be like telling us we couldn't go anywhere unless he said so.

28 posted on 07/13/2005 11:50:05 AM PDT by concerned about politics ("A people without a heritage are easily persuaded (deceived)" - Karl Marx)
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To: concerned about politics
You apparently missed the point. Let me try again.

The WSJ said: "[Karl Rove is] the one who told the press the truth that Mr. Wilson had been recommended for the CIA consulting gig by his wife, not by Vice President Dick Cheney as Mr. Wilson was asserting on the airwaves."

Now, my question is about that last part - "as Mr. Wilson was asserting on the airwaves." I believe, based upon my own reading, that statement is false. Wilson expressly stated in public that he had no idea whether the Vice-President even knew he was going. So the idea that Rove was 'disproving' a lie being repeated by Wilson is a chimera. If you can find a statement by Wilson like that attributed to him by the WSJ, I'll stand corrected. But I don't think you can.

29 posted on 07/13/2005 12:08:23 PM PDT by lugsoul ("She talks and she laughs." - Tom DeLay)
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To: lugsoul
Ohhh. OK. (I'm working on another project, and this computer looses recourses after a while, so I can't try to help right now).
Sorry. "Never mind."
30 posted on 07/13/2005 12:19:50 PM PDT by concerned about politics ("A people without a heritage are easily persuaded (deceived)" - Karl Marx)
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To: lugsoul
I believe, based upon my own reading, that statement is false. Wilson expressly stated in public that he had no idea whether the Vice-President even knew he was going.

Whether Cheney knew that Wilson, himself, was going is sort of beside the point. Cheney knew that the CIA would be following up on his request via the intelligence report -- so Cheney knew that SOMEBODY was going to Niger. Read Wilson's own words:Clearly, it was Wilson's perspective that he was acting on behalf of Cheney's office.
31 posted on 07/13/2005 12:24:34 PM PDT by Bush2000 (Linux -- You Get What You Pay For ... (tm)
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To: lugsoul
Does the following dialog support the WSJ's assertion that Wilson claimed Cheney asked him to go to Niger?

Per a talkingpointsmemo . com interview which took place Sept 16, 2003. What Wilson implies is that the office of the VP started the trip to Niger.

TPM: ....And that means that he (VP Cheney) basically started the chain of events that got the CIA to send you on this trip.

WILSON: That's right, that's correct.....

Do you know if the State Dept initiated his trip? Maybe Powell requested the trip via the INR (The State Dept's in-house intelligence operation)? Not sure.

32 posted on 07/13/2005 12:28:15 PM PDT by falpro
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To: lugsoul
Incidentally, if the CIA were truly interested in finding out the truth about Niger, they wouldn't have sent Wilson. He's a politically-charged ideologue with liberal ties. This situation was engineered by the CIA to be a political circus.
33 posted on 07/13/2005 12:29:25 PM PDT by Bush2000 (Linux -- You Get What You Pay For ... (tm)
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To: Bush2000
That's a stretch, putting it mildly. It was certainly his perspective that the Agency was acting in response to the VP's request. But he explicitly says that agency officials - not the VP - asked him to go.

He has said so, explicitly. He acknowledged that the VP didn't even know he was going to help the Agency respond to the VP's inquiry. How does that translate into the utterly false accusation advanced by the WSJ?

34 posted on 07/13/2005 12:32:47 PM PDT by lugsoul ("She talks and she laughs." - Tom DeLay)
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To: lugsoul
falpro provided a good excerpt in #32 from a Wilson interview that gives the impression re Cheney. It makes it appear that Cheney was involved in getting the CIA to send him. If nothing else, it's completely ambiguous.
35 posted on 07/13/2005 12:40:11 PM PDT by Bush2000 (Linux -- You Get What You Pay For ... (tm)
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To: Sangria

President Bush said anyone caught leaking classified information would be dealt with.


36 posted on 07/13/2005 12:47:42 PM PDT by csmusaret (Urban Sprawl is an oxymoron)
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To: Bush2000
First, what Wilson says there is entirely consistent with his other statements AND with the Senate Intel Committee report. Cheney asked the Agency to look into it, the Agency, on an operational level, asked Wilson to go. It is a ridiculous stretch to turn that into "Wilson said Cheney asked him to go." Especially in light of statements like this one:

"They asked essentially that we follow up on this report -- that the agency follow up on the report. So it was a question that went to the CIA briefer from the Office of the Vice President. The CIA, at the operational level, made a determination that the best way to answer this serious question was to send somebody out there who knew something about both the uranium business and those Niger officials that were in office at the time these reported documents were executed."

"It's absolutely true that neither the vice president nor Dr. Rice nor even George Tenet knew that I was traveling to Niger."

Joe Wilson, 8/8/03

So, Rove is a 'hero' for rebutting a 'lie' that no one was telling?

As I said - the more interesting question may be where Rove got the information that he was using to rebut the 'lie.'

Neither you nor I could have gotten it. Until Novak told us.

37 posted on 07/13/2005 12:57:43 PM PDT by lugsoul ("She talks and she laughs." - Tom DeLay)
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To: lugsoul
"find a quote where Joe Wilson says the Vice-President asked him to go on the Niger trip, as the WSJ claims he said"

I don't know exactly what Wilson said, but I remember there were stories in the press that made it sound like Cheney had personally selected Wilson for the trip and then "disowned" him when he didn't like the results of Wilson's investigation. According to Cheney, he never met Wilson and never personally saw Wilson's report. So maybe there's been some blurring of what Wilson initially said and how it eventually came to be presented in the press.
38 posted on 07/13/2005 2:14:10 PM PDT by Steve_Seattle
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To: edcoil

On the heels of Mark Felt as well.

Last week whistle blower was a hero, this week a whistle blower is a villan.

This was a Clintoon operative dirty trick that has blown back on them.


39 posted on 07/13/2005 2:15:52 PM PDT by TASMANIANRED (Democrats haven't had a new idea since Karl Marx.)
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To: Steve_Seattle
No one seems to know what he said when he 'lied.' But every single published quote I've found says the same thing - Cheney asked the CIA to look into the matter, operational level folks at the CIA asked Wilson to go. Same as the Senate Intel report.

Anyone open to the possibility that the 'Wilson falsely claimed Cheney sent him' spin is just that - spin?

Even the op-ed that the WH was responding to says this. When did he supposedly claim that Cheney sent him?

40 posted on 07/13/2005 2:20:39 PM PDT by lugsoul ("She talks and she laughs." - Tom DeLay)
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To: Bommer

You're right. Besides, Rove's name has already been revealed, so there's absolutely no reason for Miller to refuse to name him. It's not Rove, for sure!


41 posted on 07/13/2005 2:22:27 PM PDT by GatorGirl (God Bless Pope Benedict XVI)
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To: lugsoul
"Anyone open to the possibility that the 'Wilson falsely claimed Cheney sent him' spin is just that - spin?"

Again, I think two similar but different issues are being conflated. The claim is that Wilson lied in denying his wife played a role in his getting the Niger assignment, not in claiming that Cheney was the one who chose him. As I said in my other post, I think the idea that Cheney picked Wilson for the trip, or knew about him being chosen, was perhaps injected into the story in media reports, not necessarily by Wilson himself. I just re-read Tenet's 7/11/03 press release, and he says the CIA's WMD group decided to investigate the uranium issue "on their own initiative," and makes no mention of Cheney as being the one who got the ball rolling.
42 posted on 07/13/2005 2:49:40 PM PDT by Steve_Seattle
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To: lugsoul

Don't you find it odd that the CIA director wasn't briefed about Wilson's trip before it happened, that Tenet was out of the loop on this sensitive and politically charged mission? I have often wondered if this whole thing was a set-up by an anti-Bush element in the CIA.


43 posted on 07/13/2005 2:53:48 PM PDT by Steve_Seattle
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To: Steve_Seattle

44 posted on 07/13/2005 2:54:09 PM PDT by ConservativeMan55 (DON'T FIRE UNTIL YOU SEE THE WHITES OF THE CURTAINS THEY ARE WEARING ON THEIR HEADS !)
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To: Steve_Seattle
"The claim is that Wilson lied in denying his wife played a role in his getting the Niger assignment, not in claiming that Cheney was the one who chose him."

Then you aren't reading the WSJ or listening to Ken Mehlman or reading the RNC press releases. They all claim Wilson lied in claiming Cheney sent him.

45 posted on 07/13/2005 2:54:23 PM PDT by lugsoul ("She talks and she laughs." - Tom DeLay)
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To: Steve_Seattle

I'm guessing that there was an awful lot going on that Tenet didn't know about. Remember, Tenet wasn't a 'spy,' he was a 'manager.'


46 posted on 07/13/2005 2:55:34 PM PDT by lugsoul ("She talks and she laughs." - Tom DeLay)
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To: edcoil

The left took it over.


47 posted on 07/13/2005 2:56:30 PM PDT by RetiredArmy (The U.S. government and courts are stealing your freedom & liberty!)
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To: edcoil

Where is Joe Wilson? The self-promoter has not been heard from as this issue heats up. This is counter to his very personality. Why doesn't Russert or Blitzer or Larry have him on their shows to elucidate what happened. He is very close to this issue. Where to the hell is he? I think he is laying low because his ass is in a ringer. He's waiting for the hammer to falll.


48 posted on 07/13/2005 2:59:17 PM PDT by Texas Songwriter
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Comment #49 Removed by Moderator

To: lugsoul
"Then you aren't reading the WSJ or listening to Ken Mehlman or reading the RNC press releases. They all claim Wilson lied in claiming Cheney sent him."

Wilson apparently believed - maybe based on what he was told by the CIA - that Cheney had directly or indirectly instigated the trip. His views on this seem to have changed over time, based on Mehlman's quotes. But according to Tenet, neither he nor Cheney had prior knowledge of the trip, which was undertaken on the initiative of the group where Plame worked. I clearly recall reading at the time that Dick Cheney was supposed to have been the one who requested this trip; Rove was trying to correct that false impression, regardless of whether it was based on a lie by Wilson or simply because Wilson was misinformed.
50 posted on 07/13/2005 3:55:40 PM PDT by Steve_Seattle
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