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Karl Rove Will Survive
The Chattanoogan.com ^ | July 13, 2005 | JC Bowman

Posted on 07/13/2005 5:58:20 PM PDT by Howlin

I am not sure what happened in the Karl Rove/Joseph Wilson/Valerie Plame Affair or subsequent events, but let's look into the hypothetical crystal ball. In the last six years that I have known Karl Rove, I have observed that he never gets caught with his pants down. I will say it again: Karl never gets caught with his pants down.

Here is what has happened. The media has jumped all over Rove, he denies wrong doing and competing camps are becoming established---the resign or don't resign crowd start their vigorous campaigns. The camps are broken down neatly among political lines. There are those either for or against Karl--and unlike local politicians such as Ward Crutchfield or Chris Newton---Rove knows what to do, and when to do it and he will step down on his own accord. Unless there is a criminal indictment, Rove does not have to go anywhere. It makes it hard for people to call for the resignation of an un-indicted official when there are so many indicted officials and party leaders in Tennessee who have remained silent. It must be a hard time to really bite that tongue or there are a lot of hypocrites out there.

Make no mistake if Karl Rove leaked Plame's name and the US Attorney indicts him he should go, and the President needs to keep to his word and remove him. However, there has probably never before been a prosecution under the Intelligence Identities Protection Act. Questions of how Rove got the information initially probably do need to be asked. However, if or when it is proven that Rove really did not do anything wrong. People will scratch their heads and ask themselves why Ol' Joe Wilson went on a trip to Africa to investigate whether Iraq had tried to obtain enriched "yellowcake" uranium from Niger, probably with pre-determined outcomes in mind. The trip may even have been arranged by his wife a CIA weapons of mass destruction specialist or was she at least involved having knowledge in orchestrating it? Wilson and Plame may be true patriots for all we know or political opportunists waiting to cash in.

We do know Wilson had retired in 1998, but was brought back for this 2002 trip. That is a question worth asking by people: who wanted Joseph Wilson to go to Niger? And why? Then after he returns, Wilson for some reason writes a book The Politics of Truth, 528 pages critical of the Bush Administration and American Foreign Policy just in time for the 2004 election and then profits nicely. Who becomes the villain? That in of itself is the story. Glancing at the January 2004 Vanity Fair photo which features both Wilson and Plame, called "the most famous female spy in America," posing in their Jaguar did not endear the couple as victims merely yearning for anonymity on the heel of the book.

Here are a few points the pundits need to remind themselves of: Nobody has ever proven Rove has said Valerie Plame was a covert agent in deep cover. Rove simply warned reporter Matthew Cooper to stay away from the idea that Wilson's trip had been authorized by CIA Director George Tenet or Vice President Dick Cheney. Was Rove right? Again find out who sent Mr. Wilson to Niger.

If Rove was not to blame and is in fact correct, neither Tenet nor Cheney were involved think of the damage he prevented by telling Cooper his story was wrong. The media has never tried to go out of their way to make sure the Bush administration was portrayed in the most flattering light. Unfortunately, the media the purveyors of doom and gloom certainly can live with innuendo or outright accusations. By preventing the damage Rove could swing public opinion over to his side. It will mean Wilson and Plume are not heroes.

If Rove lied to the grand jury investigating this case, I expect Rove himself would have already resigned-because I firmly expect President Bush to terminate him, rightly so. But I expect Karl Rove was truthful before the Grand Jury. After all Rove gave the media, Matt Cooper and assumedly Judith Miller, permission to give his name to the grand jury as a source. Yet he really did not reveal anything damaging so he comes out of this incident cleanly. And remind yourself Rove had no problems with Cooper testifying. And why not you may ask? Because Cooper's own emails suggest that Rove didn't reveal the name of Joe Wilson's wife.

There is a world of difference in saying look you are going to screw this article up, you are going to blame the wrong people unjustly and unfairly and oh by the way Wilson's wife apparently works at the agency, What Rove did not say was "Hey Matt, did you know Valerie Plame is a covert CIA agent?" The real shocker of this story may turn out to be that Matt Cooper's source for "Valerie Plame" may have been fellow journalist Robert Novak. Yet in the end, the media may just play right into Rove's hand.

Meanwhile Supreme Court hearings will dominate until October 2005. The question is will we have one or two? If the Democrats are seen as obstructionist it will hurt them in the 2006 campaign. No offense: the Republicans have Fred Thompson to help them. The Democrats have George Mitchell. Hands down Fred Thompson sells in Tennessee and Fred Thompson sells in America. George Mitchell? He sells in France. Fred Thompson would be a great choice for the job himself. Right after the news coverage of the Supreme Court nomination, especially if controversial, we will witness the Saddam Hussein trial. The trial could combine the best or worst elements of the OJ, Scott Peterson, Robert Blake and Michael Jackson proceedings. It will be more intense than anything since the Nuremberg Trials. But if Kato Kaelin or McCauley Caulkin show up I suspect viewers will tune out.

Meanwhile the Republicans scrambling for a candidate in 2008, may select the somewhat monotonous, but benevolent Bill Frist and if a freshly exonerated Karl Rove joins his team to manage this campaign, and they recruit and bring in as the VP nominee someone like George Allen, Jeb Bush or Condi Rice for the charisma or any combination of the above the GOP will return in 2008 for an encore. There will be two major issues in 2008: Hillary and Health Care. Provided of course we have a feasible exit strategy in Iraq and a promising democracy there. Who will the Dems pick for VP to go along with Hillary---who really wants to serve as Hillary's running mate and can provide geographic balance? Harry Reid aka "Dr. No" or Howard Dean or the dark horse possibility Phil Bredesen?

Dr. Frist, the noted heart surgeon, a man untouched by scandal, becomes the front runner in 2008 and Rove ends up more powerful than ever. Hillary Clinton can never win on health care issues, look at TennCare for example, which Tennessee Governor Bredesen has not fixed and clearly Frist owns the issue--he is even bucking the President on Stem Cell Research. Hillary is either loved or hated. She has to run against herself. The more Democrats or the media bash Karl Rove the better it is for the Republicans and it keeps the focus off of Iraq, social security, world-wide war on terror, and anything else people deem as important. The media seems overtly eager, perhaps politically motivated, to go after Rove on this issue, yet there is no evidence that he broke the law. This may spark discussion at the corner bar but it will not address real issues confronting our country.

In 2008, we are likely to see Rove versus James Carville. The Ragin' Cajun is exciting, nevertheless Rove wins every time. Carville, he will make you think he is winning. Rove does one thing extremely well and that is: he wins! Think about it, some of the crystal ball is certainly plausible. The old saying, what does not kill you makes you stronger certainly could ring true for Karl Rove. The Democrats would be better served finding a messenger and getting their message out. What ails Karl Rove will not kill him. In the end, it seems to me like a media generated uproar. The backlash could be felt in 2006 and 2008. Karl Rove should have perhaps exercised better discretion, but Democrats seemed poised to make the same mistake.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: cia; cialeak; leak; plame; rove; wilson; yellowcake

1 posted on 07/13/2005 5:58:30 PM PDT by Howlin
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To: cyncooper; Shermy; Mo1; kcvl; mystery-ak; Txsleuth; hole_n_one; deport; Ernest_at_the_Beach

FYI.


2 posted on 07/13/2005 6:00:33 PM PDT by Howlin (Who is Judith Miller covering up for?)
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To: Howlin

the democrats have nothing except abortion and gay marriage.

the only thing left to them is ad hominem attacks and obstructionism.

they use the cliche "where there's smoke there's fire", knowing full well that some tv moron will believe that something's wrong.

there is no fire.


3 posted on 07/13/2005 6:01:28 PM PDT by ken21 (it takes a village to brainwash your child + to steal your property! /s)
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To: ken21
there is no fire.

The Dems live in a world where "there is no spoon."

4 posted on 07/13/2005 6:04:41 PM PDT by bill1952 ("All that we do is done with an eye towards something else.")
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To: Howlin

Is there really any doubt about his survival? Is there any conservative candidate running for office who wouldn't want Karl Rove on his side?

I don't even see him resigning - there is simply nothing that has been made public that would suggest a need for that but even if that were to happen, Rove has been highly successful as a private citizen.

This may not be a popular thing to say here, but if I think the real downside is for Scot McClellan who has not handled this well.


5 posted on 07/13/2005 6:05:09 PM PDT by grondram (The problem with the middle of the road is that you're passed on all sides and likely to be runover.)
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To: Howlin

I think this article is great. I think most people would agree there was probably no violation of the Intelligence Identities Protection Act. So the primary remaining issue is if Rove committed perjury. But I agree with the author..."If Rove lied to the grand jury investigating this case, I expect Rove himself would have already resigned".


6 posted on 07/13/2005 6:06:49 PM PDT by NathanBookman
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To: Howlin

Thanks for the ping....turn on H&C...York is on


7 posted on 07/13/2005 6:08:33 PM PDT by mystery-ak (The real Supreme Court meets up here...God)
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To: Howlin; Blurblogger; CyberAnt


8 posted on 07/13/2005 6:08:56 PM PDT by bitt ('We will all soon reap what the ignorant are now sowing.' Victor Davis Hanson)
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To: ken21
the democrats have nothing except abortion and gay marriage.

And they're stuck in the time of Vietnam and Nixon. Everything has to have a correlation to those 2 events in American history. I believe that's also true of the liberal media.

9 posted on 07/13/2005 6:14:39 PM PDT by RckyRaCoCo ("When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk!")
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To: Howlin

Frist for President? Hell NO!

Allen/Rice in 2008, maybe.
Rice/? in 2016?


10 posted on 07/13/2005 6:14:47 PM PDT by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: RckyRaCoCo

i agree.

it's as if they learned nothing.

iraq's nothing like vietnam.

except for the newsmedia. makes me angry. they would love to see the u.s. fail.


11 posted on 07/13/2005 6:17:32 PM PDT by ken21 (it takes a village to brainwash your child + to steal your property! /s)
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To: Howlin

WOW---that article was packed with information and opinion!

Rush said that Karl Rove is scheduled to host a fundraiser in Maryland for Michael Steele in a month or so....and from what Rush says , the dems are already screaming that he should not be allowed to go!

All I know is, if I were a candidate, even if Bush had to "fire" him, I would hire him in a New York minute!


12 posted on 07/13/2005 6:25:34 PM PDT by Txsleuth (Mark Levin for Supreme Court Justice)
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To: Howlin
Questions of how Rove got the information initially probably do need to be asked

I'll bet that question was asked

And I'll bet Rove truthfully answered it

13 posted on 07/13/2005 6:27:01 PM PDT by Mo1 (We will stay in the fight until the fight is won ~~~ President G.W. Bush)
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To: Howlin

I will say it again: Karl never gets caught with his pants down.



Well so far anyway.... However he has done some things over his career and had to fess up.... Stole some letter head paper from an opponent and used it to fake a free beer thing among college students and drifters... He faked his own phone being bugged and blamed it on the democrats during the 1986 Texas governors race and was dismissed by GWH Bush for leaking to Novak in 1992....


14 posted on 07/13/2005 6:27:36 PM PDT by deport
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To: Howlin
The media seems overtly eager, perhaps politically motivated, to go after Rove on this issue

a media generated uproar

Does anyone doubt any longer that the OLD MEDIA is part of the Democrat party?!

I suppose to them Karl Rove telling a dumb*ss reporter they were about to write a bogus story is more important than the dumb*ss media asking Bill Clinton if he raped Juanita Brodderick which they NEVER did. And you can bet they will NEVER ask Hillary Clinton any serious questions about ANYTHING if/when she runs for president.

I can't stand OLD MEDIA and couldn't care less if they fell off a cliff. They don't even pretend to be fair about their so-called reporting. Just trying to listen to a White house news briefing is almost impossible. They try to out do one another in being obnoxious.

15 posted on 07/13/2005 6:27:48 PM PDT by kcvl
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To: kcvl

The Old Media consists almost entirely of Democrats. So they beat up on Republicans, not Democrats. I'd like to see them all take a big, Dan Rather-type fall.


16 posted on 07/13/2005 6:31:43 PM PDT by popdonnelly
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To: grondram
I don't even see him resigning - there is simply nothing that has been made public that would suggest a need for that but even if that were to happen, Rove has been highly successful as a private citizen.

Never. Bush respects loyalty and steadfastness, somewhat lacking in the Senate...

17 posted on 07/13/2005 6:32:49 PM PDT by podkane
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To: Howlin

I can't see Frist as the front runner. More like George Allen to me.


18 posted on 07/13/2005 6:36:59 PM PDT by ONETWOONE (onetwoone)
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To: grondram

I read a fool Republican of Arkansas against Rove.


19 posted on 07/13/2005 6:37:35 PM PDT by alessandrofiaschi (NO GONZALES!)
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To: ONETWOONE

Me, too.


20 posted on 07/13/2005 6:40:23 PM PDT by Howlin (Who is Judith Miller covering up for?)
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To: ONETWOONE

The stupid press just hasn't picked up on Allen yet.

Fine by me.


21 posted on 07/13/2005 6:40:40 PM PDT by Howlin (Who is Judith Miller covering up for?)
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To: Howlin

Karl is clean.

The issue is far too complicated even for most insiders, so even if they want to demonize by innuendo it won't wash. All it does is paint the Dems & MSM as co-conspirators that are increasingly impotent. If not for the Courts and the RINO's they wouldn't have a prayer.

Thompson IS the better pick. Our side has the edge in this respect. There was a reason he was chosen to provide the narration of the video that introduced the President at the RNC convention.

At this point I don't see Frist as the nominee, but the situation remains fluid. No one has cemented themselves as the heir apparent to the nomination at this time so anything can happen in the next few years.

IF I had to wager a guess, I'd say the sentiment in his piece may be true. That a nice consensus conservative will arise, not a Maverick, and that the punch of the ticket will be running on the continuation of Bush policy with perhaps slight amendments to immigration, spending, etc..tagged on with possibly star power to surround the candidate.

And, really, that is all we need. We needed someone with a name and charisma in 2000 to survive the Clinton machine. A lot will have changed in eight years. The political structure of the country having greatly re-aligned. In that situation it is less star power needed to compete, but rather a strong party with successes that are appealing to the electorate. This is why I'm hard on Congress. They are the greatest impediment to this political sea change.

The Democrats, on the other hand, MUST rely on star power to stand a chance in 2008 UNLESS they are willing to cleanse their party of the movon.org burden. Running on a platform of "Change" will not work if the change they advocate is anti-war, Judicial obligarchy, and raising taxes.

I DO think it is past time the Republicans came up with a platform to counter national Hillarycare. her platform isn't popular, but it's evident she'll run on it, and absent a strong platform of our own she has the default upper hand.


22 posted on 07/13/2005 6:51:46 PM PDT by Soul Seeker
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To: alessandrofiaschi

OK, good point.


23 posted on 07/13/2005 6:52:11 PM PDT by grondram (The problem with the middle of the road is that you're passed on all sides and likely to be runover.)
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To: Soul Seeker
Punch here
24 posted on 07/13/2005 6:55:47 PM PDT by Howlin (Who is Judith Miller covering up for?)
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To: podkane

When the dust settles - Rove will Still be standing...and a Lot of Yellow Dog democRATS will be Flaked out on the corral floor...

Go Carl!!


25 posted on 07/13/2005 7:00:17 PM PDT by skyhawk9211 (skyhawk921 ( Semper FI - Marine Air))
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To: tet68
Well, understand that this guy's from Tennessee, so he's gonna be partial to Frist.

Among everyone I know, even the non-Condista's, Frist is a Dead Man Walking. He's in Single Digits.

It will be Allen or Rice.

Natch, I'm partial to Condi, but Allen never stole a freight train, and has a good mean streak about him. I just think Condi matches up better against Ol' Double Wide. Two good Republicans, though....

Be Seeing You,

Chris

26 posted on 07/13/2005 7:07:29 PM PDT by section9 (Major Motoko Kusanagi says, "Jesus is Coming. Everybody look busy...")
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To: kcvl
is more important than the dumb*ss media asking Bill Clinton if he raped Juanita Brodderick which they NEVER did.

Sam Donaldson did, actually.

27 posted on 07/13/2005 7:16:55 PM PDT by Rocko ("The ratio of damn fools to villains is high." -- Robert A. Heinlein)
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mark.


28 posted on 07/13/2005 7:19:38 PM PDT by SW6906
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To: NathanBookman; All
Maybe you can help me? In re the Intelligence Protection Act and how it factors into this Rove and Plame matter. And beyond the "Rove got Burned [by Cooper] stuff." It's bugged me from the beginning.

Don't you have to know that someone is an AGENT in order to obey with the writ of the Intelligence Protection Act? And why would Karl Rove necessarily KNOW Plame had been/was an agent? Was her work included in Intel reports -- used to assess terrorism against the US?

Is there an official list of alllllll types of agents? Are folks supposed to memorize the names on these lists so they don't break the IPA?

But to do so, also means these folks can't work covertly. If they cannot even be indirectly included in mainstream venues. The deal with covert is hiding an agent in plain sight.

This has already probably been discussed in other threads, my apols if asking for a rehashing...

This then would mean that any person even remotely connected (via the "biz" or the "knowledge stream") to the agent can not be addressed or queried.

Rove, advising Cooper, to maintain a more broad scope on the Niger story, is being implicated and just because Wilson (author of the "Niger story") is married to Plame?

Egads, workplace rules had good reasons to ban married couples working in like areas of an "industry" long ago.

This whole dirt devil has turned into a liberal quagmire of a "marriage protection act" spun by liberals. Wilson's "issues" cannot be addressed and simply because he's married to Plame?

This is pretty bad.

29 posted on 07/13/2005 7:56:17 PM PDT by Alia (Free Karl Rove! No Justice No Peace!)
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To: ken21
the democrats have nothing except abortion and gay marriage.

That's a terrible exageration. I happen to know that the Democratic platform for the coming election cycles has several planks.

1. Gimme
2. Gimme some more.
3. Kill your baby
4. We hate George W. Bush
5. Tax the rich.
6. Did we mention we hate George W. Bush?

30 posted on 07/13/2005 8:04:20 PM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson
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To: Homer_J_Simpson; bitt; NYTexan; CyberAnt

> > the democrats have nothing except abortion and gay marriage. < <

That's a terrible exageration. I happen to know that the Democratic platform for the coming election cycles has several planks.

1. Gimme
2. Gimme some more.
3. Kill your baby
4. We hate George W. Bush
5. Tax the rich.
6. Did we mention we hate George W. Bush?





OUCH!


31 posted on 07/13/2005 8:36:57 PM PDT by The Spirit Of Allegiance (SAVE THE BRAINFOREST! Boycott the RED Dead Tree Media & NUKE the DNC Class Action Temper Tantrum!)
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To: Blurblogger

1. Gimme
2. Gimme some more.
3. Kill your baby
4. We hate George W. Bush
5. Tax the rich.
6. Did we mention we hate George W. Bush?
~~~~~~~~~

7. Perverts need victims; shut up.
8. Sheetheads are people, too.
9. OJ is innocent, Karl Rove is guilty
10. The Joooos are behind the London bombings


32 posted on 07/13/2005 8:55:21 PM PDT by bitt ('We will all soon reap what the ignorant are now sowing.' Victor Davis Hanson)
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To: Howlin
the Republicans have Fred Thompson to help them. The Democrats have George Mitchell. Hands down Fred Thompson sells in Tennessee and Fred Thompson sells in America. George Mitchell? He sells in France.

Hehe

In the end, it seems to me like a media generated uproar.

Yup.

33 posted on 07/13/2005 9:25:48 PM PDT by GretchenM (Hooked on porn and hating it? Visit http://www.theophostic.com .)
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To: Miss Marple

FYI in case not seen


34 posted on 07/13/2005 9:26:21 PM PDT by GretchenM (Hooked on porn and hating it? Visit http://www.theophostic.com .)
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To: grondram

What?


35 posted on 07/13/2005 10:10:50 PM PDT by alessandrofiaschi (NO GONZALES!)
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To: Howlin

"The stupid press just hasn't picked up on Allen yet. "

CSPAN covered a speech of his at a fundraiser a few days ago.

He made all the right noises but my perception was that he is lacking in the charisma dept, and he needs a decent haircut, too.

*I* don't personally care about either thing, but that stuff unfortunately influences many people.


36 posted on 07/14/2005 2:14:51 AM PDT by adam_az (It's the border, stupid!)
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To: grondram
don't even see him resigning

Bill Clinton didn't resign during Monicagate. He pointed his finger at Americans and lied. He made the Senate, the House, and the country waste a lot of time on a philandering perjurer. Why should Rove resign?

37 posted on 07/14/2005 3:51:15 AM PDT by syriacus (Did one of Michael's girlfriends have a key to Terri's apartment? Did Lazy Bones McCabe ask anyone?)
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To: Common Tator

Ping.


38 posted on 07/14/2005 3:56:11 AM PDT by AFPhys ((.Praying for President Bush, our troops, their families, and all my American neighbors..))
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To: grondram

The biggest problem our President has had in this term is getting information out to the public. Scott McC is not an effective spokesperson.


39 posted on 07/14/2005 4:13:05 AM PDT by toomanygrasshoppers (Freud was wrong. It's all about "Roe v. Wade")
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To: Howlin

We all know that the Libs can only concentrate on one issue at a time. Maybe this is a rope a dope moment. Keep the Dems busy frothing at the mouth over Rove while the President brings Bolten on board by recess appointment and get his SCOTUS nominees through the Senate. The Libs hate Rove more than they do anyone else, including President Bush and Rush L. When the Rove investigation is finally over and Rove is cleared of any wrongdoing, the Dems will look around and find out that the WH has won again and they have lost....again.


40 posted on 07/14/2005 4:20:11 AM PDT by toomanygrasshoppers (Freud was wrong. It's all about "Roe v. Wade")
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To: Alia

Good questions. Here are a couple of links that may help:

Here is one from Powerline that outlines what needs to be proved to show guilt under the Intelligence Identities Protection Act (IIPA): http://powerlineblog.com/archives/010989.php

Here is an article from USA Today that outlines why Plame may not have been covert: http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-07-14-cia-wilson_x.htm

As far as Rove violating the IIPA, most seem to believe it is highly unlikely. But the Dems will ask for Rove to be fired anyway. Many think the Special Prosecutor may now be focusing more on a perjury type charge where someone lied while testifying to the Grand Jury (but who knows who).

Unfortunately, most of this is speculation and we will not know truth until final Grand Jury report is released.


41 posted on 07/14/2005 5:32:19 AM PDT by NathanBookman
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To: toomanygrasshoppers

If we wanted to get really Machiavellian, how about this.

President Bush and Rove plan to give Rove an official post knowing that he had talked to a couple of the reporters in the Plame case.

They figured that the democrats would go rabidly after Rove and lose sight of the anticipated SCOTUS fight.

Too bizzare to be true, right?


42 posted on 07/14/2005 6:18:05 AM PDT by grondram (The problem with the middle of the road is that you're passed on all sides and likely to be runover.)
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To: NathanBookman
Thank you for the links and response.

I agree with you about observing and waiting for the facts. Why do the Dems keep "leaking" hyperbole, falsehoods and phantom talking points about this case? (Rhetorically asked).

They think, at best, they got some mud onto Karl Rove. They don't realize, it's the mud in their own eyes they are seeing.. very messy.

43 posted on 07/14/2005 6:20:43 AM PDT by Alia ( Today is Thursday: Do you know where Howard Dean is?)
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To: NathanBookman
...and one back to you! :)

NRO: Being Joe Wilson in a Dream...

44 posted on 07/14/2005 6:31:57 AM PDT by Alia ( Today is Thursday: Do you know where Howard Dean is?)
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To: ken21

WHO sent Joe Wilson to Niger?? The person who authorized Joe Wilson to go to Niger is Bush's weakest link. I stil think it's Tenet and that's why he resigned.


45 posted on 07/14/2005 7:58:10 PM PDT by Ann Archy (Abortion: The Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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