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The Episcopal Church Self-Destructs over Homosexuality
VirtueonLine ^ | 7/15/05 | Allan Dobras

Posted on 07/15/2005 8:04:10 AM PDT by Dane

The Episcopal Church Self-Destructs over Homosexuality

Episcopalians Defend the Consecration of a "Gay" Bishop

By Allan Dobras

The Episcopal Church has been flirting with a disastrous schism for the last thirty-five years, and now a formal breakup seems inevitable following an unapologetic June 17–22, 2005, appearance before the Anglican Consultative Council (ACC) in Nottingham, England. The purpose of the meeting was to hear the church's defense of its consecration of "gay" Bishop V. Gene Robinson.

Over the years, the denomination continued to hang together as it blundered through several divisive issues while causing its rolls to plummet by about 1.3 million congregants, or nearly 40 percent of its membership. Remarkably, the church had managed to survive clergymen like Bishop John S. Spong, who institutionalized heretical teachings in the denomination, the failed heresy trial of Rt. Reverend Walter Righter, who opened the church to the ordination of homosexual deacons, and the church's persistent embroilment in leftist politics.

Now, ramifications from the consecration of Bishop V. Gene Robinson are sending shockwaves through the Anglican community, and the denomination is on the brink of imploding. The June 2003 election of Rt. Reverend Robinson to the office of bishop was the final straw for the traditionalist-minded American Anglican Council (AAC) and a number of conservative prelates-primarily from Africa-who put pressure on the Worldwide Anglican Communion to respond to what they thought to be contrary to church doctrine.

As a result, in October of 2003, the Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr. Rowan Williams, established a commission to look at life in the Anglican Communion in the light of recent events-at the time, the imminent consecration of the Reverend Robinson as Bishop of New Hampshire and the decision to authorize a service for use in connection with same-sex unions in the Diocese of New Westminster, Canada.

The commission was tasked by the archbishop to "offer advice on finding a way through the situation which currently threatens to divide the Communion." After studying the matter for several months, the commission issued its final report (The Windsor Report) on October 28, 2004, which called upon the Episcopal Church (USA) to:

* Express its regret that the proper constraints of the bonds of affection were breached in the events surrounding the election and consecration of a bishop for the See of New Hampshire. * Pending such expression of regret, those who took part as consecrators of Gene Robinson should be invited to consider in all conscience whether they should withdraw from representative functions in the Anglican Communion. * Effect a moratorium on the election and consent to the consecration of any candidate to the episcopate who is living in a same-gender union until some new consensus in the Anglican Communion emerges.

The commission also called for a moratorium of Rites of Blessing of same-sex unions and recommended that bishops who have authorized such rites in the United States and Canada be invited to express regret that the proper constraints of the bonds of affection were breached by such authorization.

Conservative primates of the Anglican Communion gathered in February 2005 at Newry, in Northern Ireland, at the invitation of the Archbishop of Canterbury to consider the recommendations of the Windsor Report. The primates endorsed the report and encouraged the Anglican Consultative Council to "organize a hearing at its meeting in Nottingham, England, in June 2005 at which representatives of the Episcopal Church (USA) and the Anglican Church of Canada, invited for that specific purpose, may have an opportunity to set out the thinking behind the recent actions of their Provinces."

The Episcopal Church (USA) Responds

During the week of June 20, 2005, representatives of the Episcopal Church (USA) met with the Anglican Consultative Council in Nottingham, England, and presented their response to the Windsor Report in a 135-page document titled "To Set Our Hope On Christ," which was long on superlatives, but devoid of either regret or repentance. In substance, the response was little more than a repeat of the unsubstantiated junk science claims that homosexuality is inborn and unchangeable and the discredited revisionist theology that denies the validity of the biblical record concerning homosexuality.

In a hopelessly convoluted reply to the specific recommendations of the Windsor Report, the American church dismissed the call to express "regret" for their actions or to respect a "moratorium" on the consecration of any additional clergy involved in a same-sex relationship:

* At the present time part of the Church believes that it recognizes members of same-sex affection who are living Christ-like lives of generous self-donation, costly witness, and courageous acts of discipleship in conformity with the pattern Christ establishes for us. And this part of the Church is calling the rest to "come and see" if this isn't in fact the work of the Holy Spirit. . . . "We believe that God takes our differences, which the world would wickedly harden into divisions, and embraces them by the power of Christ and the Spirit within those blessed differences-in-relation of the Divine Persons . . . " * "The experience of the Church as it is lived in different places has something to contribute to the discernment of the mind of Christ for the Church. No one culture, no one period of history has a monopoly of insight into the truth of the Gospel. . . . We wish most deeply to express our loving concern for the good of the whole Church, especially for those Anglicans worldwide who are living in faithful, committed same-sex partnerships, and also for those Anglicans worldwide who do not see how such relationships can be open to God's blessing."

The Canadian Primate, Archbishop Hutchison, expressed regret over strained relationships that its actions have caused and agreed to a moratorium on dioceses authorizing same-sex blessings rites until the General Synod considers the matter.

On June 22, 2005, the Anglican Consultative Council, citing the standard of Christian teaching on matters of human sexuality expressed in the 1998 Lambeth Resolution 1.10, endorsed the Primates' request that "in order to recognize the integrity of all parties, the Episcopal Church (USA) and the Anglican Church of Canada voluntarily withdraw their members from the Anglican Consultative Council for the period leading up to the next Lambeth Conference."

Thus, the Episcopal Church (USA), like a person addicted to hard drugs, cannot give up its romance with homosexuality and instead acquiesced to the relatively mild and inconsequential censure implicit in the ACC request for "voluntary withdrawal" from the council.

The American Anglican Council Calls the EC (USA) Response "Blasphemous."

The reaction from the American Anglican Council (AAC) to the EC (USA) presentation was swift and blunt, calling their defense "shameless" and declaring it was "blasphemous to suggest that the Holy Spirit would lead any Christian to accept or embrace doctrine or behavior contradicted throughout the body of Scripture."

The AAC dismissed out of hand a claim by the church's emissaries that "God designed and created a percentage of the population to be gay." In a sharply worded rebuttal, the ACC said, "It is not established that same-sex attraction is innate [and] God cannot be understood as having created what His revealed Word defines as sinful."

In its concluding statement, the AAC ridiculed their call for "unity in disagreement," and saw only a church in deep distress: "The logical conclusion of [their] argument is that unity is more important than truth. . . . The Episcopal Church is fractured and bleeding; punitive actions against the orthodox abound; and trust has been broken over and over. Additionally, data provided by the Episcopal Church itself demonstrates a church in disarray with a significant number of churches and individuals leaving ECUSA and dioceses experiencing serious budgetary shortfalls. It is most unfortunate that many other bishops representing a radically different view were not included in this ECUSA team."

The EC (USA), having weathered many storms in the past that left it intact but drove its membership into mass exodus, appears to have finally reached the end of the road, and a major breakup of the denomination seems inevitable.

--Al Dobras is a freelance writer on religious and cultural issues and an electronics engineer. He lives in Springfield, Virginia


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial
KEYWORDS: anglican; anglicanchurch; antichrist; apostacy; apostasy; apostate; apostatechurch; cults; deviancy; deviants; ecusa; episcopal; episcopalchurch; episcopalian; fags; fallout; falsereligion; gay; gayagenda; generobinson; homos; homosexualagenda; homosexualbishop; idolatry; perversion; perverts; rebellion; religiousleft; robinson; schism; sexualdeviancy; sexualperversion
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The last comment/reply from the link provided to this editorial left me dumbfounded,

Indeed, Jim.

Even atheists are people of faith - believing fervently (with no proof) that there is no God...

JMO, Anglicism is dead, Jim.

1 posted on 07/15/2005 8:04:11 AM PDT by Dane
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To: Dane

It is just the liberal Midas touch -- everything they touch, or everything that touches them, turn to s***! It has become an unquestionable reality.


2 posted on 07/15/2005 8:07:20 AM PDT by EagleUSA (W)
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To: Dane

The big inning for the 'Great Falling Away'


3 posted on 07/15/2005 8:10:51 AM PDT by joesnuffy (Does the Red Crescent have falafel dollies?)
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To: Dane
Theology of Liberation, Relativism, and the "celebration" of homosexuality have subverted most of the major churches to some degree. My conservative parents would have been shocked to learn what was being taught in my Methodist Sunday School classes in the early 70s.
4 posted on 07/15/2005 8:11:45 AM PDT by Monterrosa-24 (Where is our Charles Martel? Who will be our hammer against Islam?)
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To: Dane
The Episcopal Church Self-Destructs over Homosexuality

The Apostate Church of Abomination?
I'm shocked.(s)

5 posted on 07/15/2005 8:12:09 AM PDT by concerned about politics ("A people without a heritage are easily persuaded (deceived)" - Karl Marx)
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To: Dane

This is getting sadder by the day. It is painful watching a Church being destroyed by the wanton sodomites from inside. I pray the pope purges our church.


6 posted on 07/15/2005 8:12:22 AM PDT by Nov3 ("This is the best election night in history." --DNC chair Terry McAuliffe Nov. 2,2004 8p.m.)
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To: Dane

“We are moving toward a dictatorship of relativism which does
not recognize anything as for certain and which has as its
highest goal one’s own ego and one’s own desires..."
-- Pope Benedict XVI



7 posted on 07/15/2005 8:12:38 AM PDT by ppaul
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To: joesnuffy

Beginning? I'd say we are well past the beginning.


8 posted on 07/15/2005 8:17:39 AM PDT by bella1 (red county, blue state)
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To: Dane

The Anglican Communion should just expel the EC rebels and get it over with. As long as they dally with this, the EC is empowered.


9 posted on 07/15/2005 8:19:10 AM PDT by GVnana
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To: Dane

I can't figure out which Episcopal Church Council believes what or even what the average Episcopal believes.

What confusing groups they are!


10 posted on 07/15/2005 8:20:22 AM PDT by TSchmereL (This war is not over yet.)
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To: Dane

With a title like "Primate" it sounds like they are from the Planet of the Apes.


11 posted on 07/15/2005 8:24:12 AM PDT by TSchmereL (This war is not over yet.)
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To: Dane
"...members of same-sex affection who are living Christ-like lives..."

Looks like the Mother of All Oxymorons right there!

12 posted on 07/15/2005 8:27:42 AM PDT by FormerLib (Kosova: "land stolen from Serbs and given to terrorist killers in a futile attempt to appease them.")
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To: EagleUSA

I thought I was the first one to coin that phrase. So true. So true.


13 posted on 07/15/2005 8:27:53 AM PDT by Mulch (tm)
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To: Dane
Anglicism is dead

Anglicism is doing fine and is one of the fastest growing religions in the third world. Anglicism may even survive in America in some of the splinter traditional continuing churches. I believe these are growing fast. But the Episcopagen Church is dying. I refused to trade in Christianity for paganism so I quit my local Episcopal Church. It is sort of like the Republican Party; the leadership is far more liberal than the base. I am about to quit the GOP for almost the same reason I quit the Episcopagans. I refuse to become a globalist socialist.

14 posted on 07/15/2005 8:27:57 AM PDT by jackbenimble (Import the third world, become the third world)
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To: EdReform; backhoe; Yehuda; Clint N. Suhks; saradippity; stage left; Yakboy; I_Love_My_Husband; ...

Homosexual Agenda Ping.

For your edification. All actual God's truth believing Episcopalians, please turn out the lights before you shut the door after you.

Note this statement by the fools:

"We believe that God takes our differences, which the world would wickedly harden into divisions..."

They have gone psychotic. That's what happens when lies are embraced as truth, and truth is rejected as a lie. The result is nothing more or less than psychological and spiritual irreversible sickness. To believe in or promote lies as truth is bad enough in one's personal life, but to do it in the name of God is the worst of the worst.

Freepmail me if you want on/off this pinglist.


15 posted on 07/15/2005 8:29:01 AM PDT by little jeremiah (A vitiated state of morals, a corrupted public conscience, are incompatible with freedom. P. Henry)
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To: Dane
At the present time part of the Church believes that it recognizes members of same-sex affection who are living Christ-like lives

WTF? I'm sorry but I was raised in the Episcopal church and it sure as hell wasn't like this then. I do not attend it anymore. My mother still does at a small, very small chirch in Texas but they are planning to break away from it too. I think she said they are planning to rename the church the American Anglican Church?

16 posted on 07/15/2005 8:33:14 AM PDT by knak (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing)
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To: Dane; sionnsar; Convert from ECUSA
We believe that God takes our differences, which the world would wickedly harden into divisions, and embraces them by the power of Christ and the Spirit within those blessed differences-in-relation of the Divine Persons

In other words they compare sodomy with the relationship between the Persons of the Trinitarian Godhead.

Whoever believes this and doesn't retract it is surely damned.

17 posted on 07/15/2005 8:33:40 AM PDT by wideawake (God bless our brave troops and their Commander in Chief)
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To: Dane
Although there's good info here, it would have been much a better article had Mr. Dobras been a bit less inflammatory in his rhetoric, and a bit more analytical in his assessment of the ECUSA's response.

Let's look at the ones he cites:

* At the present time part of the Church believes that it recognizes members of same-sex affection who are living Christ-like lives of generous self-donation, costly witness, and courageous acts of discipleship in conformity with the pattern Christ establishes for us.

* And this part of the Church is calling the rest to "come and see" if this isn't in fact the work of the Holy Spirit. . . . "We believe that God takes our differences, which the world would wickedly harden into divisions, and embraces them by the power of Christ and the Spirit within those blessed differences-in-relation of the Divine Persons . . . "

* "The experience of the Church as it is lived in different places has something to contribute to the discernment of the mind of Christ for the Church. No one culture, no one period of history has a monopoly of insight into the truth of the Gospel. . . .

* We wish most deeply to express our loving concern for the good of the whole Church, especially for those Anglicans worldwide who are living in faithful, committed same-sex partnerships, and also for those Anglicans worldwide who do not see how such relationships can be open to God's blessing."

Now, in much the same sense as what the serpent said in the Garden, there is some superficial attractiveness, and some truth, to what's being said here -- that's why things have gotten as far as they have. We know, of course, that below the superficial appearance, the whole truth is different.

The orthodox side needs to be more clear about why it's not really attractive, and it's got to be less shy about saying so in a manner that is reasonable and attractive -- not, as Mr. Dobras has unfortunately done, in a way that allows the other side to call us "mean." (Which accusation unfortunately carries a lot of weight these days.)

One good assessment of the various arguments is found HERE.

18 posted on 07/15/2005 8:34:34 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: TSchmereL
Here is our Catechism. Hope it helps.

Of particular interest is this:

Q. What is Holy Matrimony?

A. Holy Matrimony is Christian marriage, in which the woman and man enter into a life-long union, make their vows before God and the Church, and receive the grace and blessing of God to help them fulfill their vows.

Sadly, few people take it seriously anymore.

19 posted on 07/15/2005 8:35:01 AM PDT by Zero Sum (Marxism is the opiate of the masses.)
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To: Monterrosa-24

This is another church that literally is going to hell in a handbasket.
I used to be a Methodist when it was still a Christian relegion. Now they are pro homo, pro islam, pro-any-other perversion.


20 posted on 07/15/2005 8:38:05 AM PDT by newcthem (Everything I need to know about islam, I learned on 9/11 and 7/7.)
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To: wideawake
blessed differences-in-relation

You gotta be kidding me. Most homos don't live past 40. They're killed off by overdose, disease, and suicide. Unbelievable. If that's blessed, what the hell (literally) does damned mean?

21 posted on 07/15/2005 8:39:09 AM PDT by concerned about politics ("A people without a heritage are easily persuaded (deceived)" - Karl Marx)
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To: Dane
"At the present time part of the Church believes that it recognizes members of same-sex affection who are living Christ-like lives of generous self-donation, costly witness, and courageous acts of discipleship in conformity with the pattern Christ establishes for us."

This statement sums up the bankrupt basis most all modern liberal churches hold for their existence.

It certainly is not Christianity.

I find it exasperating that any mainline organization, calling itself Christian, uses their own frivolous imaginings as their rules of "faith and practice" instead of the clear Word of scripture.

22 posted on 07/15/2005 8:39:13 AM PDT by nightdriver
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To: Dane
The Queer Mafia cares nothing for the doomed US Episcopalian Church. It is just an expendible pawn in its strategy.

Some Episcopalian clergy and parishes will join the Catholics. Many Episcopalians will be involved in a Great Schism, joining the World-wide Anglican Community, in order to avoid this atrocity:


23 posted on 07/15/2005 8:43:18 AM PDT by FormerACLUmember (Honoring Saint Jude's assistance every day.)
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To: Dane
The commission was tasked by the archbishop to "offer advice on finding a way through the situation which currently threatens to divide the Communion.

Here's a radical thought: Study the Bible and follow it!

Oh, that's right: Sponge told them they can't trust that book...

24 posted on 07/15/2005 8:43:45 AM PDT by mikeus_maximus (Hillary for Prez! -(The Whitehouse wants its china back; China wants the Whitehouse back))
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To: jackbenimble
It is sort of like the Republican Party; the leadership is far more liberal than the base

Oh you mean the modern Republican party that doesn't endorse abortion, homosexual marriage, tax hikes, keeping the social security staus quo, etc,etc..

Psst, jack jumping over the candlestick there, it seems your Church has been taken over by the democrats, and yet you blame the Republicans.

JMO, you are highly amiss and misguided.

25 posted on 07/15/2005 8:47:30 AM PDT by Dane ( anyone who believes hillary would do something to stop illegal immigration is believing gibberish)
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To: jackbenimble
I refused to trade in Christianity for paganism so I quit my local Episcopal Church. It is sort of like the Republican Party; the leadership is far more liberal than the base. I am about to quit the GOP for almost the same reason I quit the Episcopagans. I refuse to become a globalist socialist.

That is a well stated post.

26 posted on 07/15/2005 8:51:09 AM PDT by Black Tooth
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To: joesnuffy

The big inning for the 'Great Falling Away'

My 79 year old mother recently left her ECUSA congregation and now churches with an Anglican church of the Argentine diocese (in Oklahoma, no less). I attended a service where the Bishop of Argentina (an Englishman) spoke. I thought he might not address the 900 lb gorilla in the living room, but to my surprise he absolutly blasted the ECUSA. And gave a much more passionate surmon than I expected.

Good for her and good for them.


27 posted on 07/15/2005 8:54:46 AM PDT by Stand W (Confusion to our enemies)
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To: EagleUSA
When are we going learn to start calling "liberalism" what it is: Cultural Marxism???

Hell, that's what they call it!

28 posted on 07/15/2005 9:07:17 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (There are people in power who are REALLY stupid.)
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To: Dane
Oh you mean the modern Republican party that doesn't endorse abortion, homosexual marriage, tax hikes, keeping the social security staus quo, etc,etc..

Those are the things the Republicans say they stand for and with which I agree but somehow our fearless leaders never quite manage to get done. Its sort of like the Episcopalenas saying they believe in the authority of Holy Scripture ... so long as they can ignore the parts they don't like.

But they always have enough votes to increase government spending, expand the size of the Federal Government, advance the cause of socialism and lead us towards globalism. In just the last five years we have record spending and deficits, 20,000 new Federal TSA employees, the Federal Government in charge of local public education and socialized Medicare Prescription Drugs and it appears we will soon surrender more sovereignty to the WTO via CAFTA which our Republican leaders openly admit is just a stepping stone towards their further globalist agenda. At the same time our Republican leaders seem to embrace and even promote the lawlessness that comes with illegal immigration.

If everyone actually believed that President Bush was an actual conservative, all the conservatives organizations who have been telling us he was a conservative for the past 5 years would not be in such a panic over his pending judicial nomination. The fact that they are panicking reveals that they understand the truth: our leader is just a northeastern liberal Republican who has played minor lip service to conservative issues while governing from the left.

29 posted on 07/15/2005 9:07:40 AM PDT by jackbenimble (Import the third world, become the third world)
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To: Carry_Okie

Cultural Marxism???
------
Well with hard radicals like Mao-ary, their brand of government is absolute control, real classic Marxism. And she, and her "quiet" ilk make no bones about it.

"WE ARE GOING TO TAKE THINGS AWAY FROM YOU, FOR THE COMMON GOOD"...God, the vision of Karl Marx reading his Communist Manifesto pops right into mind...


30 posted on 07/15/2005 9:10:26 AM PDT by EagleUSA
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To: joesnuffy

Why even go to church if one is going to follow Satan?
This is what is going on ine the church. People love to follow Satan more than to follow God, and they do not belong in his Kingdom.


31 posted on 07/15/2005 9:14:28 AM PDT by tessalu
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To: Dane

I saw this coming YEARS AGO... I formally converted to the Roman Catholic Church years ago. The thing about Anglicanism is that when you're an Anglican (or even when you're anyone other than a Catholic) and you take a look at the Anglican church, you see "Catholic-lite" and you think "it's just like the Catholic church but without the guilt! It's wonderful." Well, once you've been both an Anglican and a Catholic you tend to regard Anglicans as barely Christian.

I went to my high school reunion a few months ago and someone was in seminary to become an Episcopalian priest (his mother is the same) after converting from Methodism. My disdain for that "church" just runs from every pore so the first thing that came out of my mouth was "I used to want to be a priest too until I joined the Church, I mean the *True Church*" which shocked everyone but had the other Catholic's laughing (I went to a Catholic school). Once I realized what I said, I could only apologize for saying it outloud but not for actually saying it.


32 posted on 07/15/2005 9:15:43 AM PDT by Wolfram
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To: joesnuffy

Why even go to church if one is going to follow Satan?
This is what is going on ine the church. People love to follow Satan more than to follow God, and they do not belong in his Kingdom.


33 posted on 07/15/2005 9:16:15 AM PDT by tessalu
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To: jackbenimble

>"I am about to quit the GOP for almost the same reason I quit the Episcopagans. I refuse to become a globalist socialist."<

Agreed. Issues of abortion, the homosexual agenda, U.S. sovereignity, eliminating the IRS, and etc are being taken by the Constitution Party folks.
Many (not all) in the Republican party leadership seem to be content with not rocking the boat.


34 posted on 07/15/2005 9:17:06 AM PDT by FBD
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To: Dane

Oh you mean the modern Republican party that doesn't endorse abortion, homosexual marriage, tax hikes, keeping the social security staus quo, etc,etc..


Your not from Ohio are you? We have a different Republican Party here.


35 posted on 07/15/2005 9:23:21 AM PDT by jerwin63 (Enough!)
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To: EagleUSA
Actually, I was referring to the Cultural Marxism invented by Antonio Gramsci in the 1920s. It was brought to America by his ideological heirs who had just been kicked out of Germany: the Frankfurt School, courtesy of the Roosevelt Administration. Folks such as Herbert Marcuse, Eric Fromm, and Abraham Maslow were ensconsed at major American universities in order to foster their transformation. It should be no surprise therefore that such has infested divinity schools.

The professorate calls it Cultural Marxism, and so should we.

36 posted on 07/15/2005 9:35:52 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (There are people in power who are REALLY stupid.)
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To: TSchmereL
I can't figure out which Episcopal Church Council believes what or even what the average Episcopal believes.

For my part, it's easy to say what I believe.

I believe I am not an Episcopalian any more.

37 posted on 07/15/2005 9:35:54 AM PDT by Gorzaloon
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To: jackbenimble; FBD
Those are the things the Republicans say they stand for and with which I agree but somehow our fearless leaders never quite manage to get done. Its sort of like the Episcopalenas saying they believe in the authority of Holy Scripture ... so long as they can ignore the parts they don't like.

Fweeutt, you two.

Has there been a pro-abortion bill passed in the last 11 years.

Has there been a Federal bill passed endorsing homosexual marriage.

The answer is no, but you two knew that.

Ya know maybe you two should clean up your own house(i.e the episcopalian church) before complaining about others.

For the record I am not an episcoplian, but raised Catholic.

38 posted on 07/15/2005 9:36:01 AM PDT by Dane ( anyone who believes hillary would do something to stop illegal immigration is believing gibberish)
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To: Dane
It is sort of like the Republican Party; the leadership is far more liberal than the base

Oh you mean the modern Republican party that doesn't endorse abortion, homosexual marriage, tax hikes, keeping the social security staus quo, etc,etc..

I wouldn't take that as a slam against the GOP. It's perfectly natural that the leadership concentrates on the "center", as their job is to generate votes. Can you honestly tell me that Ken Mehlman is more conservative than the average freeper?

39 posted on 07/15/2005 9:52:17 AM PDT by jmc813 ("Small-government conservative" is a redundancy, and "compassionate conservative" is an oxymoron.)
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To: concerned about politics

Yeah, that is why they just build a retirement home for fags in Hollyweird and it only has 100 apartments!


40 posted on 07/15/2005 9:58:31 AM PDT by Redleg Duke (BOHICA!)
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To: jmc813; Xenalyte
I wouldn't take that as a slam against the GOP.

Jeff, why don't you concentrate on something more important to your, IMO, vapant life, like playing cat and mouse bedding Xena.

41 posted on 07/15/2005 10:00:09 AM PDT by Dane ( anyone who believes hillary would do something to stop illegal immigration is believing gibberish)
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To: concerned about politics

Yeah, that is why they just build a retirement home for fags in Hollyweird and it only has 100 apartments!


42 posted on 07/15/2005 10:01:32 AM PDT by Redleg Duke (BOHICA!)
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To: Dane; Xenalyte
Jeff, why don't you concentrate on something more important to your, IMO, vapant life, like playing cat and mouse bedding Xena.

Whoah there! Where did that come from? I wasn't trying to be confrontational. I was simply trying to discuss political party theroy. For instance, look at how poorly the Democrats have done since installing Dean as their chairman.

As far as your woman Xenalyte goes, she's the cat and I'm the mouse, right?

43 posted on 07/15/2005 10:07:37 AM PDT by jmc813 ("Small-government conservative" is a redundancy, and "compassionate conservative" is an oxymoron.)
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To: Dane
There are a significant number of Republicans who support:

Same sex civil unions
Abortion
Unlimited immigration
The status quo of the IRS.
etc

You might want to check your facts before you go on your little tirades against anyone who criticizes the Republican party about abortion. Here's the facts on abortion funding through "Title X". and H.R. 4818, which a majority of Republicans, and the President signed.

http://www.covenantnews.com/lefemine050208.htm

"President George W. Bush and the Republican-majority Congress increased Title X to record $288.3 million in FY 2005"



Title X is one of two major federal government funding sources for Planned Parenthood Federation of America, the nation's largest chain of abortion centers (murdering over 244,000 unborn human beings per year by surgical abortion alone).


Title X appropriation for FY 2005 (Oct. 2004 to Sept. 2005) was signed into law as part of H.R. 4818 (see bill at http://thomas.loc.gov), the mammoth appropriations bill which contained the huge outlays for the (unconstitutional) Department of Health and Human Services.
44 posted on 07/15/2005 10:07:39 AM PDT by FBD
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To: FBD
There are a significant number of Republicans who support:

Same sex civil unions
Abortion
Unlimited immigration
The status quo of the IRS.

And please show me where they are in the Republican platform.

You can't and don't bring up the quote from loser Bob Dole from 96. It ain't 1996 anymore and Bob Dole is too busy doing Viagra commericals.

I can show you where abortion for all, semi-acceptance of gay marriage, and tax hikes for all from the last democrat party platform.

45 posted on 07/15/2005 10:12:50 AM PDT by Dane ( anyone who believes hillary would do something to stop illegal immigration is believing gibberish)
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To: FormerLib

Romans Chapter 1 says otherwise.

Any believer IMHO is obligated to vote with their feet on this matter. Whether to Rome or to the Southern Baptists, just away from this abomination!


46 posted on 07/15/2005 10:13:18 AM PDT by Fred Hayek (Liberalism is a mental disorder)
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To: newcthem

Methodists (UMC) - urban congregations dead liberal, rural congregations for the most part still faithful. An example of the former is a UMC church in Houston TX (inside the loop) preaching the "queer Jesus" blasphemy - and a female paster at that.


47 posted on 07/15/2005 10:21:36 AM PDT by Fred Hayek (Liberalism is a mental disorder)
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To: Dane
And please show me where they are in the Republican platform.

Platforms really don't mean anything. People need to acknowledfge that RINO's exist, and we as conservatives must work to dilute their influence on the party. I think you're picking unnecessary fights on this thread.

48 posted on 07/15/2005 10:22:17 AM PDT by jmc813 ("Small-government conservative" is a redundancy, and "compassionate conservative" is an oxymoron.)
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To: Dane

It's a fake, phony-baloney church anyway - cooked up by a bloodthirsty English king who was into murdering his wives. No wonder it's screwed up.


49 posted on 07/15/2005 10:26:08 AM PDT by Hank Rearden (Never allow anyone who could only get a government job attempt to tell you how to run your life.)
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To: wideawake

Shudder! Whatever the problems may be in the Catholic Church, I crossed the Tiber just in the nick of time, it seems! It isn't the church that C.S. Lewis knew, that is for sure; he is probably turning over in his grave at all this stuff! I don't call 'em "episcopagan" for nothing!


50 posted on 07/15/2005 10:36:41 AM PDT by Convert from ECUSA (tired of all the shucking and jiving)
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