Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

The Real Story Behind Srebrenica
The Globe and Mail ^ | 14 July 2005 | Lewis MacKenzie

Posted on 07/15/2005 9:30:59 AM PDT by Doctor13

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-91 next last

1 posted on 07/15/2005 9:31:00 AM PDT by Doctor13
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Doctor13

Bookmark


2 posted on 07/15/2005 9:37:35 AM PDT by BenLurkin (O beautiful for patriot dream - that sees beyond the years)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Doctor13

Notice that even Gen. MacKenzie doesn't deny what many Serbs still do: that Muslim men were taken prisoner and shot en mass. Genocide? No. War crime? No doubt.

I also noticed that he chose to skip the 1992 Serb attacks in the region that pushed so many refugees into Srebrenica in the first place preferring instead to spread the lie that the Serbs were only "going to attack Srebrenica to stop him (Oric) from attacking Serb villages."

Unless MacKenzie can explain why all of Eastern Bosnia was attacked (Zepa was overrun soon after Srebrenica and Gorazde was hammered throughout) then the Serb claim that they were only responding to Oric just doesn't hold up.


3 posted on 07/15/2005 9:40:42 AM PDT by johnnyBbad
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Doctor13; Lion in Winter; Destro; Honorary Serb; jb6; Incorrigible; DTA; ma bell; joan; vooch; ...
"As the Bosnian Muslim fighters became better equipped and trained, they started to venture outside Srebrenica, burning Serb villages and killing their occupants before quickly withdrawing to the security provided by the UN's safe haven."

And there is the complete reason for the Serbian response. The response was excessive but a response was justified, nonetheless.

Have any of our apologists for the Muhammedan killers ever even bothered to admit that the attacks on the Serb villagers was wrong?

4 posted on 07/15/2005 9:48:38 AM PDT by FormerLib (Kosova: "land stolen from Serbs and given to terrorist killers in a futile attempt to appease them.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Doctor13
"As the Bosnian Muslim fighters became better equipped and trained, they started to venture outside Srebrenica, burning Serb villages and killing their occupants before quickly withdrawing to the security provided by the UN's safe haven. These attacks reached a crescendo in 1994 and carried on into early 1995 after the Canadian infantry company that had been there for a year was replaced by a larger Dutch contingent."

Waging war, Muslim style to avoid casualties.

5 posted on 07/15/2005 9:57:51 AM PDT by DTA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Doctor13
"As the snow cleared in the spring of 1995, it became obvious to Nasar Oric, the man who led the Bosnian Muslim fighters, that the Bosnian Serb army was going to attack Srebrenica to stop him from attacking Serb villages. So he and a large number of his fighters slipped out of town."

Muslim courage.

6 posted on 07/15/2005 9:59:13 AM PDT by DTA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: johnnyBbad

A bunch of not-so-ex-commies killing each other...

...so why does anyone give a s*** which not-so-ex-commie wins?


7 posted on 07/15/2005 9:59:54 AM PDT by BeHoldAPaleHorse
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Doctor13
"It's a distasteful point, but it has to be said that, if you're committing genocide, you don't let the women go since they are key to perpetuating the very group you are trying to eliminate. Many of the men and boys were executed and buried in mass graves."

When Muslims kill Serb civilians, it is revenge. When Serbs kill Muslim fighters, it is genocide.

8 posted on 07/15/2005 10:02:40 AM PDT by DTA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: FormerLib
Have any of our apologists for the Muhammedan killers ever even bothered to admit that the attacks on the Serb villagers was wrong? I don't see how anyone can deny that a war crime is wrong.
9 posted on 07/15/2005 10:15:05 AM PDT by johnnyBbad
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: DTA

As I understand it, by summer 1995 it was pretty much a given that the safe-areas in the east would fall. The muslim government pretty much knew this (thus evacuated their generals) and relied on retaining the towns by involving the UN.

I believe the Serb leadership pretty much knew krajina was gone by then as well.


10 posted on 07/15/2005 10:18:07 AM PDT by johnnyBbad
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: johnnyBbad

didn't all but 2 "safe havens" fall?


11 posted on 07/15/2005 10:20:43 AM PDT by tfecw (Vote Democrat, It's easier than working)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: johnnyBbad

damn - didn't realize how many times I wrote "pretty much" in that last post :)


12 posted on 07/15/2005 10:21:00 AM PDT by johnnyBbad
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: johnnyBbad
I don't see how anyone can deny that a war crime is wrong.

Our Muhammedan apologists simply ignore that anything happened. Admitting that a war crime provoked the reponse sullies the fiction that the Muhammedans were somehow blameless victims.

13 posted on 07/15/2005 10:22:24 AM PDT by FormerLib (Kosova: "land stolen from Serbs and given to terrorist killers in a futile attempt to appease them.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: tfecw

In the east, Zepa and Srebrenica fell while Gorazde held out.

Tulza and Sarajevo weren't in much danger of being over-run while the Bihac seige was lifted during Croatia's "Operation Storm" in early August 95.


14 posted on 07/15/2005 10:22:36 AM PDT by johnnyBbad
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: FormerLib

sorry, I'm new - who's a 'Muhammedan apologist'?


15 posted on 07/15/2005 10:23:35 AM PDT by johnnyBbad
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: BeHoldAPaleHorse
...so why does anyone give a s*** which not-so-ex-commie wins?

Because Bill Clinton charged in on the side of the folks who sent us all a big "Thank You!" note on September 11, 2001.

16 posted on 07/15/2005 10:23:50 AM PDT by FormerLib (Kosova: "land stolen from Serbs and given to terrorist killers in a futile attempt to appease them.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Doctor13
...Muslim fighters became better equipped and trained, they started to venture outside Srebrenica, burning Serb villages and killing their occupants before quickly withdrawing to the security provided by the UN's safe haven.

Nutshell.

Repeated in many forms.

17 posted on 07/15/2005 10:23:56 AM PDT by Poincare
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: johnnyBbad

Pay attention, keep reading, and they'll make themselves known to you in very short order.


18 posted on 07/15/2005 10:24:35 AM PDT by FormerLib (Kosova: "land stolen from Serbs and given to terrorist killers in a futile attempt to appease them.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: FormerLib

As much as I dislike - no, HATE - ISlamic radicals I don't see how you confuse the Bosnians with, say, radical Arabs.


19 posted on 07/15/2005 10:25:20 AM PDT by johnnyBbad
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Doctor13

The useless UN and the present day UN thiefs. It is past due for the US to get out of the useless UN and let the remainder steal from someone else.


20 posted on 07/15/2005 10:25:34 AM PDT by sandydipper (Less government is best government!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: johnnyBbad
>>>>>Unless MacKenzie can explain why all of Eastern Bosnia was attacked (Zepa was overrun soon after Srebrenica and Gorazde was hammered throughout) then the Serb claim that they were only responding to Oric just doesn't hold up.<<<<<

Since you are in explanation mood, can you explain these poaradoxes:

1. Intent to eliminate group is mandatory condition for the crime of genocide. However, Muslim women and children were not harmed in Srebrenica. Neither were Muslim men in Zepa, in operation you mentioned. None of them was harmed. How is that possible, if Serbs had an intent to destroy Muslims as a people?

2. Safe Haven Srebrenica was never demilitarized. There is ample hard evidence about it from NATO sources. How members of Bosnian Muslim Army in Srebrenica can be called Bosnian Muslim men and boys" when their status was "Bosnian Muslim soldiers and paramilitaries" or Bosnian Muslim POWs?

3. There were only several boys among alleged 8000 Bosnian Muslims dead. Nevertheless, guideline "8000 men and Boys" is repeated ad nauseam. At the same time, foreign mercenaries who werte among Srebrenica Muslims are never mentioned. Why "8000 Men, Boys and foreign mercenaries" is not used instead?

4. In Kravica incident, Bosnian Muslim POWs overpowered BSA guard, took his weapon and killed him. Enraged guards opened fire. Why this incident is never described in detail?

5. BSA offensive used only two tanks and both were captured by Bosnian Muslim Army. How it is possible if Muslims were unarmed as propaganda depictrs them. When barehanded man meets a tank, Tienanmen happens.

6. How many Serbs were killed in Srebrenica region according to Muslim sources. Serbs have the names of all 3287 killed. Where are their corpses?

7. What happened with alleged intel photos Mad Albright waved in UN?

8. During retreat, some Bosnian Muslims were fighting among themselves and killing each other. Also, there was a firefight between Bosnian Muslims and foreign mercenaries who resisted surrender. When a Bosnian Muslim shoot and kill a Bosnian muslim or foreign mnercenary, is the resulting corpse an evidence of Serb genocide? If not, why all casualties are billed to Serbs?

9. Photos taken in Srebrenica shows that among the women and children boarding busses were Bosnian Males as well. Busses were escorted by peacekeepers and no males were taken off the bus. What happened to them once they reached destination in Muslim held Bosnia? Are they also "8000 men and boys" killed by Serbs?

10. Last but not least, Muslim sources speak of Srebrenica being sold out. Diplomatic sources confirm that Clinton in his talk with Izetbegovic stated that international community will intervene if the number of dead Muslims is higher than 5000. Are they talking about the same thing?

21 posted on 07/15/2005 10:29:24 AM PDT by DTA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: johnnyBbad

You mean all Bosnians or just the radical ones like Oric?


22 posted on 07/15/2005 10:31:39 AM PDT by FormerLib (Kosova: "land stolen from Serbs and given to terrorist killers in a futile attempt to appease them.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Doctor13

Bookmark


23 posted on 07/15/2005 10:50:46 AM PDT by RATkiller (I'm not communist, socialist, Democrat nor Republican so don't call me names)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: johnnyBbad
Welcome to the Balkan twilight zone.

I fear I'm one of the "muslim apologists" your interlocutors refer to, and if you defer from adopting their bizarre worldview, you'll soon be labelled one too.

Ah well - know those you talk to by their posts.

Regards.

24 posted on 07/15/2005 10:51:00 AM PDT by Hoplite
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: DTA

I'm gonna get in serious s**t for doing this at work...

1. In my opinion claims of genocide in Bosnia were rubbish. No one committed genocide. It was a territorial struggle in which horrific crimes were committed - not the Holocaust or Rwanda. George Kenney accurately likened it to Lebanon.

2. Yes, Srebrenica was never demilitarized. Put yourself in the shoes of a Bosnian cleansed from Visegrad or Foca - would you give up your guns surrounded by Serbs and "protected" by a UN that got pushed around by all sides? Me neither.

Members of Bosnian army are protected by war crimes laws when they surrender. You can't shoot em at that point, regardless of whether they're in the army.

3. Agreed - "boys" is overused. Many/most of Muslim men were soldiers (many unarmed) trying to get to tulza (or thereabouts).

Please elaborate on the "foreign mercenaries" in Srebrenica. to the best of my knowledge there were none in that region. most radical imports fought in central bosnia against the HVO.

4. The Kravica incident you describe (in 93?) is nothing at all like rounding up thousands of POWs and blowing them away. No comparison.

5. The Muslims did have two Serbian tanks - captured in 93 -which soon ran out of fuel and ammo. they were by no means the "only" tanks used by the BSA.

6. Dunno where Serbs corpses are. I imagine the Serbs would have recovered a fair bit given that the Muslims could only raid and then retreat. They wouldn't exactly have time to burry them would they?

7. No idea.

8. again, what foreign mercenaries are you talking about?

9. Most Muslim men were seperated from the women or captured en rout to Tulza.

10. No idea.


25 posted on 07/15/2005 10:51:36 AM PDT by johnnyBbad
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: johnnyBbad
Yes, Srebrenica was never demilitarized. Put yourself in the shoes of a Bosnian cleansed from...

The important distinction inferred by "demilitarized" is that they are soldiers (heading into Srebrenica, thereby bolstering the security enjoyed by the murderous raiders) as opposed to civilians armed in self-defense.

The former created a threat to the surrounding farms and villages while the latter do not.

And I see one of the Muhammedan apologists has decided to identify himself to you. Yes, meeting such as he is your first look into the "Twilight Zone" as his postings have little to do with what occurs here on Planet Earth.

26 posted on 07/15/2005 11:38:59 AM PDT by FormerLib (Kosova: "land stolen from Serbs and given to terrorist killers in a futile attempt to appease them.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: FormerLib

When it comes to the safe areas, both sides badly abused the concept. The Muslims didn't disarm while the Serbs pressed their offensive against Gorzade in 1994 and only backed off when they'd pushed the UN/NATO to the brink.
Not even the Serbs claim to have been responding to Muslim attacks there.

BTW is there any ping lists for the balkan threads I can get on?


27 posted on 07/15/2005 11:57:50 AM PDT by johnnyBbad
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: johnnyBbad

As to ping lists: the quickest way is to scoll up near the bottome of the original article where you see the KEYWORDS. Click on BALKANS and you'll be shown a list of all other articles containing that KEYWORD.


28 posted on 07/15/2005 12:03:45 PM PDT by FormerLib (Kosova: "land stolen from Serbs and given to terrorist killers in a futile attempt to appease them.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: FormerLib

I noticed up top that you posted

To: Doctor13; Lion in Winter; Destro; Honorary Serb; jb6; Incorrigible; DTA; ma bell; joan; vooch; ...

I take it that's some sort of Balkan poster list?


29 posted on 07/15/2005 12:06:30 PM PDT by johnnyBbad
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: johnnyBbad
As much as I dislike - no, HATE - ISlamic radicals I don't see how you confuse the Bosnians with, say, radical Arabs.

Heh.. I say the same thing. My Muslim friends in Bosnia drink more than I do -- and they like barbecued pork more than me, too. Careful saying it, though, you'll be called an Islamofascist faster than you can hit "Post."

30 posted on 07/15/2005 12:10:03 PM PDT by Terabitten (Illegal immigration causes Representation without Taxation.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Terabitten
you'll be called an Islamofascist faster than you can hit "Post."

I encounter the same attitude from balkan folks all the time. "Don't think I'm 100% right? You must love the Islamists/chetniks/ustashe!!" It's annoying at the best of times, and VERY revealing as to how they ended up slaughtering eachother.

31 posted on 07/15/2005 12:19:30 PM PDT by johnnyBbad
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: johnnyBbad
What would you call radicals when the Bosnian Muslim government of Alija Izetbegovic slaughtered his own people at the Markale market place massacre in 1995, blamed on Serbs, in order to get the West's sympathy and to fight for them? This is pretty sick!

I would, therefore, call them Bosnian radicals.

Furthermore, that is the alleged market place massacre over which we bombed the Serbs!

32 posted on 07/15/2005 4:56:56 PM PDT by Doctor13
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Doctor13

What proof do you have that the 95 Sarajevo mortar attack was by Muslims?

Not saying it isn't true, I just keep hearing this story without any concrete proof. Plus, if you recall, Karadzic made the same charge after the Feb 94 attack as well as the May 92 breadline attack as well.

So even if the 95 attack was by Muslims, I'm afraid the Serbs didn't help their cause much.


33 posted on 07/16/2005 10:57:57 AM PDT by johnnyBbad
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: johnnyBbad

I suggest you read a few pages from Izetbegovic's "Islamic Declaration" and decide if that's radical enough for you.


34 posted on 07/16/2005 12:01:48 PM PDT by Pantagruel
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: johnnyBbad
This is James R. Davis' account of Muslim tactics. He was there when they mortared again and again for PR purposes and then would scream in their press that the Serbs and the UN were responsible.

Sharp End: A Canadian Soldier's Story by James R. Davis

http://www.balkanpeace.org/wcs/wct/wctu/wctu02.shtml

Page 173:

..."On 17 July, we were tasked to provide VIP security for a meeting between all the factions and Sir Douglas Hurd, the British Foreign Secretary....

We spent the day moving the foreign Secretary around and dodging well-staged incidents the locals (Muslims) put on for his benefit. At the Bosnian Presidency the TDF (Territorial Defense Forces) mortared their own people again as Hurd arrived. He had just dismounted from Kevin's track when several mortars slammed into the square across the road, killing several civilians. It had been staged by the Muslims to impress Hurd. They told him the Serbs did this to them everyday, when in fact they killed their own people again for political reasons. Animals."

Page 167-168: ... "That evening there were some kids hanging around on a patio at the base of the building. The guys had thrown them some candy until I told them to stop. I didn't want every kid in the city coming to hang out beneath our windows. Also on the patio was an attractive teenage girl. She spoke some English and was having a conversation with some of our guys who were hanging out the window.

Suddenly, out of the corner of his eye, one of the troops saw... a mortarbomb. In the moment before it detonated, he realized it was heading right for the kids. Before he could shout a warning, the bomb exploded. The impact threw our guys back out of the window and onto the floor. Immediately, more rounds followed and the building rocked. ..Warrant Sullivan... rushed outside...

What he found shocked him to the core. There were little pieces of children everywhere. Arms, legs and blood covered the patio. The teenage girl had died instantly. The other kids were badly wounded. Brit medics showed up and tried to sort out the mess... They got the kids on street chars and tried to match the arms and legs with the proper child. It was horrible.

...

Later that night, the platoon area was pretty subdued. Some of the guys blamed themselves for talking to the kids and throwing them candy, but we all knew- we hadn't launched those bombs.

The next morning, a report came in from the observers that no Serb mortars had fired that they were aware of. The trajectory was calculated and it was determined that the Bosnians had mortared their own children. For public relations purposes. Sure enough, the morning news in the city reported that the UN and their Serb allies had killed these children. We could not believe it. I can't speak for the others, but that morning I would have happily killed any TDF (Muslim) troops I saw. I was growing tired of the whole mess. These people did not care. They were animals.

Still, it was my job. We were still a platoon with a job to do. I tucked all my feelings away and tried to be my normal, carefree self. It wasn't the last time the Bosnians murdered their own people in well-staged attacks for PR reasons."...


35 posted on 07/16/2005 1:21:12 PM PDT by joan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: johnnyBbad

War in eastern Bosnia was started by Bosnian muslim.

On May 8, 1992, Oric’s forces assassinated Judge Goran Zekic President of the Serbian SDS Party in Srebrenica, triggering an exodus of 1,500 Serbs in Srebrenica.
http://www.bannerofliberty.com/BosniaKosovo/6-17-2005.1.html

They ambushed his vehicle and used hand grenade to kill him. Part of bomb killed muslim assassin who throw that bomb. Later this assassin was officially elevated to status of torrent.


War in northern Bosnia was started by joint Croat-muslim attack on Sijekovac.
http://lists.econ.utah.edu/pipermail/rad-green/2001-October/000960.html

War in souther Bosnia was started by Croat attack on Kupres.
http://www.balkanpeace.org/wcs/wct/wcts/wcts30.shtml


Yugoslavia - The avoidable war
torrent file at:
http://conspiracycentral.net:6969/


36 posted on 07/16/2005 8:32:04 PM PDT by zagor-te-nej (http://emperors-clothes.com/sreb/mem.htm)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: zagor-te-nej

“elevated to status of torrent.”
it should read:
”to the status of hero who died for the faith”


37 posted on 07/16/2005 9:29:16 PM PDT by zagor-te-nej (http://emperors-clothes.com/sreb/mem.htm)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: DTA

Is "Muslim courage" kind of like "Serb courage" in Krajina 1995?


38 posted on 07/17/2005 9:17:58 AM PDT by Joey Silvera
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Doctor13

Seems it would be easier to move WMD than it would to move bodies?? Bosnia was a scam from the start.

Pray for W and Our Troops


39 posted on 07/17/2005 9:26:26 AM PDT by bray (Pray for the Freedom of the Iraqis from Islam)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: zagor-te-nej
War in eastern Bosnia was started by Bosnian muslim. On May 8, 1992...

Nice try. The war started in early April in the east when Arkan swept through the Drina Valley. Why do Serbs regularly screw around with the chronology to prove that Oric attacks in May 1992 and January 1993 somehow "started" a war in April 1992?

40 posted on 07/18/2005 5:12:11 AM PDT by johnnyBbad
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: zagor-te-nej

By the way, what's with the "conspiracy central" site?

Do you believe 9/11 was an inside job to?


41 posted on 07/18/2005 5:13:02 AM PDT by johnnyBbad
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: Joey Silvera

Are you refering to the brokered deal between Milo and Tudjman?


42 posted on 07/18/2005 7:42:26 AM PDT by montyspython (Love that chicken from Popeye's)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: johnnyBbad
>>>>>>Nice try. The war started in early April in the east when Arkan swept through the Drina Valley. Why do Serbs regularly screw around with the chronology to prove that Oric attacks in May 1992 and January 1993 somehow "started" a war in April 1992?<<<<<<

You claim that civil war started in early April 1992 and have confirmed this 2 times. Mark your words! I will.

In March 26, 1992, the Army of Republic of Croatia and Bosnian Muslim paramilitaries entered Bosnian Serb village of Sijekovac (Bosanski Brod municipality, Posavina region) and massacred tens of civilians.

At that time, Bosnia was not internationally recogized as a country and was part of Yugoslavia. It was an international agreesion.

Since you affirm that the civil war started in Early april, Sijekovac massacre shows who has kick started it.

Your hatred of Serbs is only matched by your disregard for facts.

I do not have to go even earlier and document the infiltration of Army of Republic of Croatia into Herzegovina in fall of 1991, Sijekovac, March 26 will do.

Chutzpah without the facts is a bluff.

Yours is exposed. Nice try pal :-)

43 posted on 07/18/2005 8:40:18 AM PDT by DTA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: DTA

The civil war in EASTERN Bosnia started with Arkan rolling into Bileljina, followed by Zvornik, Visegrad, Foca etc.

How that somehow "responds" to a battle in Northern Bosnia where a couple dozen Serbs died simply confirms what I've always believed: That the Serb tendency to lash out at her enemies with such disproportionate force was the best thing the Bosnians, Croats and Albanians had going for them!

It's truely sad how Serbs STILL don't understand how this made them look, instead calling everyone who questions their actions "Serb haters" or some such rubbish. Reminds me of how Arabs pull that "Islamophobia" crap whenever some one gets mad after a terror attack.


44 posted on 07/18/2005 9:44:55 AM PDT by johnnyBbad
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: DTA

by the way, DTA, if you're willing to say that I (some anonymous person on the net) have a "hatred for Serbs" just because I disagree with how Serbia conducted itself in the war, I can only imagine what you'd have been willing to do to some Muslim or Croat neighbour in Bosnia who didn't want to be with Slobo's Serbia anymore.

Again, very revealing as to the mindset that is all too common over there.


45 posted on 07/18/2005 9:53:36 AM PDT by johnnyBbad
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: johnnyBbad
Oh boy, you do have a nerve. First you falsify the facts and when caught red handed accuse me of "I can only imagine what you'd have been willing to do to some Muslim or Croat neighbour in Bosnia who didn't want to be with Slobo's Serbia anymore."

Your accusation assumes that I lived in Bosnia. I did not. Nor I set foot there during the war.

Why stop with this accusation, better accuse me of commiting war crimes because I deflated your ego.

I do not have to imagine what you are willing to do. Your butchering of facts is enough. Very revealing as to the mindset that is all too common among Liberals.

46 posted on 07/18/2005 12:58:37 PM PDT by DTA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: DTA

I never accused you of commiting war crimes. I said that given you attitude towards me, I can only imagine what you would do to a Bosnian Muslim.

as for when the war started, are you willing to state that Serbia's attack on the Drina Valley was a justified response to some gunbattle with Croats in northern Bosnia? That does seem to be the implication of you pointing out that March 92 incident. Again, you only proved my point on what lost the war for Serbia.

Me a "Liberal?" Well at least you didn't call me a jihadust or something. Isn't that the usual serb insult for those who object to their war tactics?


47 posted on 07/18/2005 1:24:53 PM PDT by johnnyBbad
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: johnnyBbad
You say " I never accused you of commiting war crimes". This is completely uneccessary, because I have never said that you did.

Please go back and read what I wrote. That was sarcasm (I wrote that if you groundlessly accuse me of what I could do toward my alleged neighbors you may accuse me of commiting of war crimes as well since I never lived in Bosnia nor set a foot there during the war.)

it seems that you have pre-conceived picture of events in the Balkans and get angry when facts differ from your preconceptions.

According to your template, the massacre of Serb civilians in Sejekovac is a battle although perps were armed and the victims were not, Serbia attacked Bosnia in Drina valley in april 1992 and Serbia waged war in Bosnia and lost.

On my attempt to explain the facts, you respond with another groundless accusation in an attempt to kick the ball out of the field.

We know that liberal's reasoning is immune to facts and logic.

I apologize if you are not a liberal. But you do sound as one.

48 posted on 07/18/2005 1:51:47 PM PDT by DTA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: johnnyBbad
You say " I never accused you of commiting war crimes". This is completely uneccessary, because I have never said that you did.

Please go back and read what I wrote. That was sarcasm (I wrote that if you groundlessly accuse me of what I could do toward my alleged neighbors you may accuse me of commiting of war crimes as well since I never lived in Bosnia nor set a foot there during the war.)

it seems that you have pre-conceived picture of events in the Balkans and get angry when facts differ from your preconceptions.

According to your template, the massacre of Serb civilians in Sejekovac is a battle although perps were armed and the victims were not, Serbia attacked Bosnia in Drina valley in april 1992 and Serbia waged war in Bosnia and lost.

On my attempt to explain the facts, you respond with another groundless accusation in an attempt to kick the ball out of the field.

We know that liberal's reasoning is immune to facts and logic.

I apologize if you are not a liberal. But you do sound as one.

49 posted on 07/18/2005 1:51:48 PM PDT by DTA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: johnnyBbad
The first shot of the war was the shooting death of Serb civilian Nikola Gardovic on March 1, 1992 in the old town section of Sarajevo during a wedding procession where he was carrying the Yugoslav flag (he was the father of the groom). He was shot by Ramiz Delalic "Celo", deputy commander of the 9th Brigade in the Muslim controlled army.

Had you ever heard of "Celo" before?

What about Musan Topalovic "Caco", who was commander of the Tenth Mountain Brigade of the Army of Bosnia-Hercegovia?

Are you familiar with the name Jusuf Prazina?

All these men are accused for atocities against Serb civilians in Sarajevo - and elsewhere - including running torture/death camps throughout Sarajevo, beheading and throwing the bodies in a gorge called Kazani, and more.

These men were praised by Izetbegovic, including on TV. They were hardened criminals and ex-cons in the years before the war and Izetbegovic put them in charge.

After they had done their dirty work in the areas of Sarajevo and elsewhere which Muslims controlled, Izetbegovic sought to distance himself and make the army more professional - so he fought them and/or had them arrested, killed and/or demoted. There were internal fights among the Muslims in the arrests.

This how witness Lieutenant-Colonel Christian Bergeron of the Canadian Armed Forces testified at the Hague about the arrests of Celo and Caco in 1993:

JUDGE EL MAHDI: [Interpretation] Yes. Thank you. Just a slight clarification, please. This is in relation to what you said. During the effort of the army, or rather the command of the army, of the Presidency army, to have an effective command and control on some of their factions inside their troops, you spoke of some exchange of fire which took place between units of the army of the Presidency and some groups, and that this had caused some civilian victims. How long did it last, this operation? Was this a one-day or two-day operation or did this go on for months?

A. Well, from what we knew about it or, rather, the most important, the most famous that we could see the effects on the ground itself, this operation must have lasted about 48, 72 hours. This operation took away Celo and Caco. As far as I remember, this was an operation, 72 hours.

JUDGE EL MAHDI: [Interpretation] However, this operation did cause some civilian deaths?

A. There were losses, I know, but I don't know how many. I don't know the details.


50 posted on 07/18/2005 1:57:52 PM PDT by joan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-91 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson