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ACLU pushes state on Quran oaths
News Record ^ | 14-July-05 | Eric Collins

Posted on 07/15/2005 4:47:09 PM PDT by Jay777

GREENSBORO — The ACLU of North Carolina on Monday accused state court officials of not responding quickly enough to a controversy involving the use of the Quran for courtroom oaths.

The group’s legal foundation is calling on the state Administrative Office of the Courts to adopt a policy allowing the Quran and other religious texts for oath-taking in North Carolina courtrooms.

A Greensboro Muslim group has been waiting for an AOC decision for three weeks after Guilford County’s two top judges decided that Muslims could not legally take an oath on the Quran.

“We think they are dragging their feet,” said Jennifer Rudinger, the state ACLU’s executive director.

Her group, along with a Washington-based Islamic civil rights organization and Greensboro-area religious leaders, has called on the AOC to act. The ACLU wrote a formal letter to the state agency June 28 but has received no word back.

An AOC spokesman on Monday denied that the agency was dawdling. Dick Ellis said a judicial conference last month and vacation schedules have kept key decision-makers from working on the issue.

“Nobody has had time to do that around here,” he said.

Informally, Ellis said, most of the agency’s lawyers feel the issue should be resolved by legislators.

(Excerpt) Read more at news-record.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Government; Philosophy; US: North Carolina
KEYWORDS: aclu; anticonstitution; enemywithin; greensboro; koran; muslimamericans; nc; oath; sedition; traitors
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Isn't this a little hypocritcal of the ACLU? I thought they wanted religious symbols out of the Court.

More at Stop The ACLU

1 posted on 07/15/2005 4:47:11 PM PDT by Jay777
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To: RepCath; Liz; IronJack; Grampa Dave; MeekOneGOP; Iris7; wkdaysoff; EdReform; Nick Danger; ...
PING! What's next the Wiccan Bible?
2 posted on 07/15/2005 4:48:31 PM PDT by Jay777 (My personal blog: www.stoptheaclu.com)
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To: All
You can join the fight against the ACLU and their ilk by becoming involved with and supporting the following organizations:

Alliance Defense Fund (ADF) - http://www.alliancedefensefund.org

Thomas More Law Center (TMLC) - http://www.thomasmore.org

American Center for Law and Justice (ACLJ) - http://www.aclj.org

The Rutherford Institute - http://www.rutherford.org/

Stop the ACLU Coalition - http://www.stoptheaclu.org


Here are a few examples of how two of those organizations are fighting back:

ADF Contacts Over 3,600 School Districts Over Attempts To Censor Christmas

ADF: 700 lawyers ready to fight ACLU lawsuits

ADF: Pentagons' Warning About Boyscouts Is Absurd

Thomas More Law Center: Town of Palm Beach Pays $50,000 In Attorney Fees Apologizes To Women In Nativity Lawsuit


Additional information:

The ACLU must be destroyed: Joseph Farah supports Boy Scouts, urges Americans to fight back

Citizens mobilized to stop ACLU (seeks to consign group to 'ash heap of history')

ACLU fulfilling communist agenda

Revealing FACTS on the ACLU from its own writings

See how YOUR Senator or Representative ranks with the ACLU

This group just started on December 3, 2004 and are looking for new members to their yahoo group


My Personal Anti-ACLU Blog (Check it out and leave a comment!)

Let me know if you would like to join my ACLU Ping List!
3 posted on 07/15/2005 4:49:28 PM PDT by Jay777 (My personal blog: www.stoptheaclu.com)
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To: All

4 posted on 07/15/2005 4:50:14 PM PDT by Jay777 (My personal blog: www.stoptheaclu.com)
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To: Jay777

If the Koran orders Muslims to lie to infidels, of what use is having a Muslim swear "to tell the truth" on a Koran, while being tried in an American (that is, infidel) court?


5 posted on 07/15/2005 4:51:32 PM PDT by coloradan (Hence, etc.)
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To: Jay777

Sombody should make the ACLU pee in a cup before they're allowed to say even one damned thing.


6 posted on 07/15/2005 4:52:02 PM PDT by xcamel (Deep Red, stuck in a "bleu" state.)
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To: Jay777
The group’s legal foundation is calling on the state Administrative Office of the Courts to adopt a policy allowing the Quran and other religious texts for oath-taking in North Carolina courtrooms.

Since the Quran explicitly approves of lying to infidels, an oath taken on it is literally a promise to lie.

So9

7 posted on 07/15/2005 4:52:37 PM PDT by Servant of the 9 (Trust Me)
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To: Jay777

Only Christianity. It's just a matter of time before they fight for Sharia law in our courts.


8 posted on 07/15/2005 4:53:14 PM PDT by Mr. Keys
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To: Jay777

The ACLU won't stop until Christianity is destroyed.

After 09/11 the Quran and it's teachings were hot topics at public schools. Some of them had kids desinging their own jihads. They were encouraged to wear burkhas (sp?) and other Muslim garb. It was just an exercise in diversity don't you know.

They recited verses, memorized passages and basicly studied the Muslim faith.

While this was going on, the ACLU was quiet as a mosque rodent.


9 posted on 07/15/2005 4:53:55 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (US socialist liberalism would be dead without the help of politicians who claim to be conservative.)
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To: Jay777
What will be the new oath? "I will kill the infidels, so help me Allah?"
10 posted on 07/15/2005 4:54:36 PM PDT by concerned about politics ("A people without a heritage are easily persuaded (deceived)" - Karl Marx)
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To: Jay777

I don't mind muslims swearing on the Koran. I'll treat it for what it's worth.


11 posted on 07/15/2005 4:55:43 PM PDT by Brilliant
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To: Jay777
calling on the state Administrative Office of the Courts to adopt a policy allowing the Quran and other religious texts for oath-taking in North Carolina courtrooms.

What good would it do to have Muslims swear on the quran if the quran says it is permissible for true believers to lie to, cheat, steal from, and even kill infidels.

12 posted on 07/15/2005 4:57:55 PM PDT by oldbrowser (There is something Jerry Springerish about the democrats.)
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To: Jay777

The ACLU DO want all religious symbols out of the court. They are pushing this kind of thing so Christians and others will fight it, and thus the courts will ultimately be forced to keep ALL religious materials out of the courts.


13 posted on 07/15/2005 5:04:32 PM PDT by Darkwolf377 (Gabon, where we send only our FINEST ambassadors)
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To: Jay777
The same liberals who want the cross gone from San Diego's Mt. Soledad... Hmmmm

(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)
14 posted on 07/15/2005 5:05:11 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: Jay777
"Isn't this a little hypocritcal of the ACLU? I thought they wanted religious symbols out of the Court."

Naaa, they just want Christian religious symbols out of public life.
15 posted on 07/15/2005 5:05:37 PM PDT by Texas_Jarhead
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To: Jay777

"The group’s legal foundation is calling on the state Administrative Office of the Courts to adopt a policy allowing the Quran and other religious texts for oath-taking in North Carolina courtrooms."

HUH?? what about the separation of church and state?

The aclu will be one of the first groups the American people will go after when the next terrorist attack happens. Time to purge the enemy within....


16 posted on 07/15/2005 5:06:35 PM PDT by Stellar Dendrite (FAKE conservatism is more dangerous than liberalism <<<---at least you know what you're gonna get!)
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To: Brilliant

I understand what you mean. What difference does it really make what the liars swear on? What good would it do for them to swear on a Bible in which they don't believe. I wouldn't trust them no matter what they swore on. Now, I'm not racist about this, but I won't take my chances when it comes to trust either.


17 posted on 07/15/2005 5:08:28 PM PDT by Jay777 (My personal blog: www.stoptheaclu.com)
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To: DoughtyOne
They recited verses, memorized passages and basicly studied the Muslim faith.

According to Islam, anyone who recites the shihada "There is no dog like Allah, and Mohammed is his bitch" (words substituted here because I am an infidel, but you know what I mean) automatically converts to Islam. No trade backsies if you didn't mean it, now you are stuck and subject to the death penalty for "apostacy."

Oopsie.

18 posted on 07/15/2005 5:09:29 PM PDT by Alouette (Just when I think liberals can't get any more stupid, I'm wrong.)
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To: Alouette

ACLU = Anti Chrisitian League of Unionists.


19 posted on 07/15/2005 5:11:08 PM PDT by Dr Stormfist
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To: Jay777

This is silly. The Koran DEMANDS the murder of "infidels", and requires Muslims to LIE to non-Muslims. How can swearing on the Koran be allowed in any courtroom in the United States?


20 posted on 07/15/2005 5:11:46 PM PDT by savedbygrace ("No Monday morning quarterback has ever led a team to victory" GW Bush)
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To: Jay777

It wouldn't surprise me to learn that the Clintons have written a bible and that the ACLU wants the Clinton bible to replace the Christian Bible. </sarcasm>


21 posted on 07/15/2005 5:12:46 PM PDT by Fruit of the Spirit
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To: Alouette

Yeah, oopsie...


22 posted on 07/15/2005 5:13:05 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (US socialist liberalism would be dead without the help of politicians who claim to be conservative.)
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To: Jay777

I think swearing oaths on a Bible or any religious text should be abolished. Maybe many years ago when most people were actually G-D fearing their oath would mean something.

I think a witness or any deponent should be made to state a disclaimer in which they are made to understand that perjury is a crime for which they can be prosecuted.


23 posted on 07/15/2005 5:13:12 PM PDT by Alouette (Just when I think liberals can't get any more stupid, I'm wrong.)
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To: savedbygrace

LOL...

In the USA of today, this makes perfect sense.


24 posted on 07/15/2005 5:13:33 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (US socialist liberalism would be dead without the help of politicians who claim to be conservative.)
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To: Jay777

Would that be the same Koran that says it's okay to lie to infidels?


25 posted on 07/15/2005 5:14:58 PM PDT by Argus
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To: Dr Stormfist

ACLU: Atheists, Communists & Liars Unlimited


26 posted on 07/15/2005 5:15:10 PM PDT by Alouette (Just when I think liberals can't get any more stupid, I'm wrong.)
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To: DoughtyOne

"The ACLU won't stop until Christianity is destroyed."

You nailed it, DoughtyOne.


27 posted on 07/15/2005 5:18:54 PM PDT by TAquinas (Demographics has consequences.)
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To: TAquinas

Thanks. I'd like to take credit, but I'm sure there are some rather intelligent first graders that are already aware of it. LOL


28 posted on 07/15/2005 5:22:39 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (US socialist liberalism would be dead without the help of politicians who claim to be conservative.)
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To: Darkwolf377

Good thinking!
It's a tactical step to removing the Bible from the court later down the road.


29 posted on 07/15/2005 5:25:13 PM PDT by Voir Dire
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To: Jay777

I'll use the quran when the courthouse restroom is out of toilet paper.


30 posted on 07/15/2005 5:26:06 PM PDT by aomagrat
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To: Alouette
I must disagree with you concerning swearing on the Bible. I feel that it is an important part of our national heritage, and should be treated as such. America was founded as a predominantly God-fearing Christian society. We swear on the Bible because it is one thing that most people at least have some respect for. Who are we to break that tradition of swearing on our most important religious text? What good will come of such an act as abolishing the practice of taking an oath on the Bible? The answer: Nothing. What will we lose? We draw ever nearer to the description of the last days found in 2 Timothy 3:1-5... 1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, , blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

Now, that description is just a little bit scary. Notice the bolded phrases. Doesn't our repealing the necessity to swear on the Bible bring us closer to that? Doesn't it cast us as too proud to rely on God? Smarter, more powerful, highminded perhaps? I don't want to be charged with that, now or ever.

31 posted on 07/15/2005 5:37:07 PM PDT by RedBeaconNY (A dyed in the wool conservative since the ripe age of 12.)
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To: coloradan

An excellent point.


32 posted on 07/15/2005 5:46:06 PM PDT by milford421
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To: RedBeaconNY
I feel that it is an important part of our national heritage, and should be treated as such. America was founded as a predominantly God-fearing Christian society.

Along with the tradition of swearing on the Bible also came the option of affirming an oath without swearing. There were, and still are, some Christian sects who believe that swearing an oath could be "taking the Lord's name in vain." These people were allowed to take what was then called the "Quaker oath" (when Quakers were still G-D fearing Christians and not the politically-correct leftist saps they are today).

33 posted on 07/15/2005 5:46:18 PM PDT by Alouette (Just when I think liberals can't get any more stupid, I'm wrong.)
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To: All

You are all invited to come to our chat on Friday nights from 8 p.m. EST till whenever.

http://www.stoptheaclu.com


34 posted on 07/15/2005 5:50:54 PM PDT by Jay777 (My personal blog: www.stoptheaclu.com)
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To: Jay777

What about a Koran bound in pig skin?


35 posted on 07/15/2005 5:55:16 PM PDT by Paleo Conservative (Hey! Hey! Ho! Ho! Andrew Heyward's got to go!)
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To: Alouette
I'm aware of the Quaker oath, but to claim a need to abolish swearing on the Bible is ridiculous all the same.

BTW, can you cite any examples of Christian sects today who believe that swearing an oath is 'taking the Lord's name in vain'? Just curious.

36 posted on 07/15/2005 5:58:04 PM PDT by RedBeaconNY (A dyed in the wool conservative since the ripe age of 12.)
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To: Jay777; american colleen; Lady In Blue; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; ...
The ACLU of North Carolina on Monday accused state court officials of not responding quickly enough to a controversy involving the use of the Quran for courtroom oaths.

I'm conjecturing here but .... IMHO .... the ultimate goal of this is to move the states in enacting the Mulsim Sharia law. You know this one - caught stealing, your hand is severed. There is far more to this than meets the eye.

Catholic Ping
Please freepmail me if you want on/off this list


37 posted on 07/15/2005 6:16:42 PM PDT by NYer ("Each person is meant to exist. Each person is God's own idea." - Pope Benedict XVI)
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To: Jay777
Click Here! Trust Me! It's Good.
Click the Pic J

38 posted on 07/15/2005 6:40:25 PM PDT by Fiddlstix (This Tagline for sale. (Presented by TagLines R US))
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To: NYer
You know this one - caught stealing, your hand is severed.

But, they're such peaceful people...

A man convicted of theft being flogged in front of a crowd of thousands in Bara, Pakistan. Afterwards five more people convicted of crimes ranging from kidnapping to car theft were also flogged by the Tanzeem Ulema organisation of religious scholars in Pakistan (1992).

39 posted on 07/15/2005 6:41:24 PM PDT by wagglebee ("We are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom." -- President Bush, 1/20/05)
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To: NYer
Well, the goal of the Mohammedans, perhaps.

But, the goal of the Anti-Christian Lawyers Unlimited is simply to oppose Christianity, at all times.

They probably figure they can get Bible oaths abolished by pushing for this.

40 posted on 07/15/2005 6:42:18 PM PDT by B Knotts
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To: Constitution Day

Unfortunately....NC ping worthy?


41 posted on 07/15/2005 6:53:46 PM PDT by mykdsmom (What chance does Gotham have when the good people do nothing?)
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To: Jay777

Hypocritical doesn't begin to cover it!


42 posted on 07/15/2005 6:54:57 PM PDT by sheik yerbouty (Crush the jihadists, drive their minions before you, and hear the whining of their mullahs!)
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To: Alouette

You just gave me a new tagline.....with your permission, of course :-)


43 posted on 07/15/2005 7:05:46 PM PDT by Bombardier ("Religion of Peace" my butt.....sell that snakeoil to someone who'll believe it!)
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To: Jay777
What's the point of taking an oath on the quran? Islam allows lying. The point of swearing on the bible is that it does not allow lying. And, of course, the ACLU is being hypocrites to advocate religious symbols in the courthouse when they've been avidly fighting to remove them. It's just further proof that they are Anti-Christan, not just interested in keeping out all symbols.
44 posted on 07/15/2005 7:09:43 PM PDT by highlander_UW (I don't know what my future holds, but I know Who holds my future)
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To: Jay777
All this is simply the natural consequence of the constitutional "logic" SCOTUS has imposed on the country time and again. Until we start facing it head-on, we're going to be getting more ridiculous cases like this.
45 posted on 07/15/2005 7:31:12 PM PDT by inquest (FTAA delenda est)
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To: Jay777; NYer; Salvation

Matthew 5:33-37

http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/matthew/matthew5.htm

33
"Again you have heard that it was said to your ancestors, 'Do not take a false oath, but make good to the Lord all that you vow.'
34
But I say to you, do not swear at all; 23 not by heaven, for it is God's throne;
35
nor by the earth, for it is his footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King.
36
Do not swear by your head, for you cannot make a single hair white or black.
37
Let your 'Yes' mean 'Yes,' and your 'No' mean 'No.' Anything more is from the evil one.


46 posted on 07/15/2005 7:42:42 PM PDT by SaltyJoe ("Social Justice" begins with the unborn child.)
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To: Jay777
I'd submit that this is a most stupid and ignorant request by the ACLU which works against Christianity.

For what reason do these decrepit intellects support the Koran over the Holy Bible?

The answer will verify why the ACLU is not a friend of the United States of America.

47 posted on 07/15/2005 7:49:43 PM PDT by harpo11
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To: Jay777

bump


48 posted on 07/15/2005 7:51:23 PM PDT by lowbridge
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To: mykdsmom; TaxRelief; Alia; 100%FEDUP; 2ndMostConservativeBrdMember; ~Vor~; A2J; a4drvr; Adder; ...

NC *Ping*

Please FRmail Constitution Day, TaxRelief OR Alia if you want to be added to or removed from this North Carolina ping list.
49 posted on 07/15/2005 7:51:31 PM PDT by Constitution Day (I am the Sultan of Oom-Papa-Mow-Mow.)
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To: Jay777
A Greensboro Muslim group...

What's next? A Mount Pilot Muslim group, a Mayberry Muslim group...

Times change.

50 posted on 07/15/2005 8:11:59 PM PDT by FreeReign
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