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Hispanics Banking in Alabama Wachovia and Banco Hispano
Ahorre ^

Posted on 07/17/2005 3:16:52 AM PDT by Happy2BMe

Hispanics Banking in Alabama Wachovia and Banco Hispano

Many Hispanics who live and work in the United States send millions of dollars to relatives in their native countries each year - and financial institutions in Alabama, as well as those across the country, are beginning to reach out to the largely untapped Hispanic market.

Vicente Lorenzo, for example, sends money religiously to his wife and two young children in Acambay, Mexico.

"I send them money every week," said Lorenzo, 30, who has lived and worked in Alabama for five years. Close to 80 percent of what he makes working in construction goes to his family, and he sometimes sends as much as $1,200 at a time.

Lorenzo is among thousands of Hispanics in Alabama who send millions of dollars to Latin America each year. A 2004 report by the Inter-American Development Bank showed that 78 percent of Alabama Hispanic immigrants regularly send money to family and friends.

The bank conducted surveys in 3,800 households from February through April 2004 for the report. Last year, Hispanic immigrants in Alabama collectively sent $149 million in remittances. Individuals sent an average of $2,797 in the course of a year, with individual transfers averaging $260.

It is estimated that 10 million Latin American immigrants nationwide sent an average of 10 percent of their household incomes, according to the report. Increasingly, big banks aren't content to let traditional wire transfer services like Western Union keep all the fees associated with sending that money.

For example, Charlotte, N.C.-based Wachovia and Banco Hispano, a division of Bank of Alabama, are luring Hispanic customers by offering services such as wiring money to Mexico, Central and South America and the Caribbean. Wachovia, which recently purchased Birmingham-based SouthTrust Bank, later this year will bring to Alabama its "Tarjeta Dinero Directo," or "Direct Money Card." The ATM-type card allows customers to wire money to Latin America, the Caribbean and Spain.

Wachovia already offers the service in Texas and Florida.

Angela Parker, spokeswoman for Wachovia's Miami branch, said the program is part of a larger banking package, "Cuenta Con Todo," or "Account With Everything," designed to attract Hispanic customers.

Since Hispanics have become the largest ethnic group in the United States, financial institutions nationwide have increased their advertising and marketing budgets to get their business. Many banks already have pamphlets in English and Spanish with messages that appeal to Hispanics.

Louis Barajas, financial analyst and author of "The Latino Journey to Financial Greatness," said banks are beginning to see a real benefit in tapping into the Hispanic market, especially because this community lacks a banking relationship history.

It's easier for banks to target and attract customers who don't already have savings or checking accounts than to lure customers from other banks, he said.

"They know there is a huge unbanked market they can tap into," Barajas said. "Banks are starting to realize the need to get that customer."

Bank of Alabama did exactly that. Last year, the company opened a bilingual branch, Banco Hispano, that caters to the specific needs of the Hispanic community, and a second branch is planned. Among other things, Banco Hispano carries the "Tarjeta Amiga," or friendly card, which allows individuals to wire money to friends and families not only in Latin America but throughout the world. The card works much like a prepaid card in which individuals can control how much money friends and family can withdraw.

Many banks wishing to provide money transfer services will have to compete with well-established wiring services, such as MoneyGram and Western Union, that have provided Hispanics with remittance services for many years but may charge up to 15 percent for sending money, Barajas said.

But he sees the competition for potential Hispanic customers as good.

"Some smart banks are putting together a program that includes hiring bilingual representatives who understand the culture," Barajas said.

Nationally, some banks, including Bank of America and Wells Fargo, are providing free money wiring services with the opening of a savings or checking account.

But Barajas said it will take some time before the Hispanics are able to trust financial institutions.

He said it will take recent immigrants from two to five years to begin building bank relationships as they become acclimated and banks cater to them.

Once in the United States, many Hispanic immigrants are hesitant to seek out a banking relationship because they bring the fears and lack of trust many had about banks in their homelands, Barajas said.

Others, especially the poor, may not be experienced with the banking system at all, he said.

Melisa Mendez, branch manager with Banco Hispano, said the branch offers free 45-minute courses on basic banking for new customers.

Everyone who opens a savings or checking account with the branch is required to take the course, she said.

A lack of banking history eventually becomes a barrier for immigrants, especially if they want to purchase a home or car or build credit history, Barajas said.

A number of banks in Alabama, including Wachovia and Banco Hispano, are accepting the consular identification card and federal tax identification number as a form of identification to make banking more accessible for Hispanics to open accounts. This allows individuals who are in the country illegally to open bank accounts and transfer money to their families in their native lands.

But for many Hispanics, wiring money from Hispanic markets is still the first choice.

Colombian-born Marta Cienfuegos is the owner of Imperio Tienda Hispana in Hoover, one of many stores providing money transferring services to the Hispanic community.

"We have customers that have been sending money with us since we opened 11 years ago," Cienfuegos said. She said the average money transfer per wire is between $200 and $300.

Big banks still haven't attracted customers like Ana Elena Paiz, who recently sent money to her sister-in-law in El Salvador using Ria, a wiring service provided at Imperio Tienda Hispana.

The 31-year-old said she prefers sending money there because she can speak Spanish and pick up anything else she may need on her way out.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Government; US: Alabama; US: Arizona; US: Arkansas; US: California; US: Colorado; US: Georgia; US: New Mexico; US: North Carolina; US: Oklahoma; US: Texas; US: Utah
KEYWORDS: aliens; bancohispano; banking; bankofalabama; hispanics; immigrantlist; wachovia

1 posted on 07/17/2005 3:16:53 AM PDT by Happy2BMe
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To: Reagan Man; Reaganwuzthebest; Gipper08; Brad's Gramma; Diogenesis; Boazo; Smartass; JohnHuang2; ...
Banco this one if you don't believe the Dollar will be replaced within the next ten years with a new "Traveler" currency immediately tendered in Canada, the (old) United States, and Mexico without requiring any foreign exchange whatsoever . .

(The foreign(er) exchange is what brought all of this about of course.)

========================

Many Hispanics who live and work in the United States send (hundreds of) millions of dollars to relatives in their native countries each year - and financial institutions in Alabama, as well as those across the country, are beginning to reach out to the largely untapped Hispanic market.

Bank of Alabama did exactly that. Last year, the company opened a bilingual branch, Banco Hispano, that caters to the specific needs of the Hispanic community, and a second branch is planned (of many more to follow).

Among other things, Banco Hispano carries the "Tarjeta Amiga," or friendly card, which allows individuals to wire money to friends and families not only in Latin America but throughout the world.

The card works much like a prepaid card in which individuals can control how much money friends and family can withdraw.


2 posted on 07/17/2005 3:23:51 AM PDT by Happy2BMe (Viva La MIGRA - LONG LIVE THE BORDER PATROL!)
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To: Happy2BMe

All I know is that their population is growing in Huntsville, Alabama. I'm seeing more and more and more of them in the grocery, thrift, and Walmart stores. They speak very little if any English. Never thought I'd see that happen in my lifetime. The America that I grew up in is long gone thanks to gutless and/or corrupt politicans. I weep for the country that I love.


3 posted on 07/17/2005 5:52:57 AM PDT by proudofthesouth (Boycotting movies since 1988)
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To: Happy2BMe


That's alot of American money leaving our borders. Now had people employed Americans all that cash would have been spent here.


4 posted on 07/17/2005 5:53:38 AM PDT by SouthernFreebird
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To: SouthernFreebird

And the sales taxes would be collected in the local community. But that's okay under compassionate conservativism.

The definition of “compassionate conservative:” a person who campaigns as a conservative, then sells out key conservative principles!


5 posted on 07/17/2005 6:21:37 AM PDT by B4Ranch ( Report every illegal alien that you meet. Call 866-347-2423, Employers use 888-464-4218)
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To: B4Ranch; Happy2BMe



SHOOT   COYOTES   HERE!
THE  GOOD  THE  BAD  &  THE  BANKERS

6 posted on 07/17/2005 6:31:57 AM PDT by devolve (-------------------------------------------------)
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To: Happy2BMe

If the people sending money out of the country are ILLEGAL immigrants, wouldn't this be considered "money laundering" if they avoid paying taxes?


7 posted on 07/17/2005 6:37:53 AM PDT by Trteamer ( (Eat Meat, Wear Fur, Own Guns, FReep Leftists, Drive an SUV, Drill A.N.W.R., Drill the Gulf, Vote)
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To: proudofthesouth

if you really loved your country and wanted it to remain non-hispanic,

you and others would have had more children.

it's the baby boomer generation and successive generations, given to birth control and abortion, that are responsible for a low birth rate. this is common to all industrialized countries, i.e., japan, and europe. italy has virtually no new generation.


8 posted on 07/17/2005 6:41:37 AM PDT by ken21 (it takes a village to brainwash your child + to steal your property! /s)
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To: proudofthesouth

It's unbelievable. The problem has been growing here in north Texas for years but now I can safely say that 85% of the nearest school to me is 'immigrant' population, most or all of them are illegal.

At least people are starting to talk about it. We have had a couple articles and letters in the paper over the last few days about border control.


9 posted on 07/17/2005 6:44:22 AM PDT by shattered
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To: Happy2BMe

Bump for later reference.


10 posted on 07/17/2005 6:55:35 AM PDT by MeneMeneTekelUpharsin (Freedom is the freedom to discipline yourself so others don't have to do it for you.)
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To: Happy2BMe

"I send them money every week," said Lorenzo, 30, who has lived and worked in Alabama for five years. Close to 80 percent of what he makes working in construction goes to his family, and he sometimes sends as much as $1,200 at a time."


Thats pretty good pay for a job an American won't do.


11 posted on 07/17/2005 7:04:49 AM PDT by philetus (What goes around comes around)
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To: 1_Inch_Group; 2sheep; 2Trievers; 3AngelaD; 4.1O dana super trac pak; 4Freedom; 4ourprogeny; ...

ping


12 posted on 07/17/2005 10:58:00 AM PDT by gubamyster
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To: gubamyster

Protect our borders and coastlines from all foreign invaders!

Be Ever Vigilant!

Minutemen Patriots ~ Bump!


13 posted on 07/17/2005 11:58:04 AM PDT by blackie (Be Well~Be Armed~Be Safe~Molon Labe!)
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To: ken21

Non-hispanic or Non-Mexican national?


14 posted on 07/17/2005 12:02:16 PM PDT by hispanarepublicana (There will be no bad talk or loud talk in this place. CB Stubblefield.)
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To: Happy2BMe
Watch the unAmerican Buchananites have conniptions over the American Dream which they themselves are either unwilling or unable to live.
15 posted on 07/17/2005 12:04:38 PM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: Trteamer

If you suspect someone is avoiding taxes then report them.


16 posted on 07/17/2005 12:05:40 PM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: SouthernFreebird
When freepers start complaining about remittences, that's when my fellows start to lose me. Every friggin' immigrant group has done this since at least the late 19th/early 20th century. For a long time, the largest source of foreign income in Greece, Portugal, Italy and Yugoslavia was from remittences from immigrant communities abroad. This is nothing new, nor does it concern me.

Besides, I see immigrants, legal and illegal, buying tons of sh-t at auto lots and wal marts around the country, so the idea that they are not spending money in the US is ludicrous.

17 posted on 07/17/2005 12:06:22 PM PDT by Clemenza (JJesus CChrist MMade SSeattle UUnder PProtest)
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To: hispanarepublicana

Obviously the intent was just as written: Hispanics are not welcome, and illegal immigration is just their current excuse.


18 posted on 07/17/2005 12:07:12 PM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: shattered
If you believe this:

Close to 80 percent of what he makes working in construction goes to his family, and he sometimes sends as much as $1,200 at a time.

Then it is hard to believe this:

It is estimated that 10 million Latin American immigrants nationwide sent an average of 10 percent of their household incomes

I believe most of them send 80% of what they make. The libs and pro-illegals out there banter about the 10% figure so it doesn't sound like it's such a detriment to our economy.

Funny to see both figures in the same article.

19 posted on 07/17/2005 12:14:42 PM PDT by VeniVidiVici (In God We Trust. All Others We Monitor.)
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To: Cultural Jihad
If you suspect someone is avoiding taxes then report them.

Nice try RINO boy. You know very well that local law enforcement has been ordered by the federal government to release any illegals caught. I have seen it with my own eyes. I suppose now you are going to throw in the race card.

20 posted on 07/17/2005 1:03:09 PM PDT by Trteamer ( (Eat Meat, Wear Fur, Own Guns, FReep Leftists, Drive an SUV, Drill A.N.W.R., Drill the Gulf, Vote)
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To: Cultural Jihad

Oh, I see you already did.


21 posted on 07/17/2005 1:04:30 PM PDT by Trteamer ( (Eat Meat, Wear Fur, Own Guns, FReep Leftists, Drive an SUV, Drill A.N.W.R., Drill the Gulf, Vote)
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To: Trteamer
The show fits on you, as I am fully supportive of President Bush and his policies, directives, proposals, and philosophy.
22 posted on 07/17/2005 1:08:01 PM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: Cultural Jihad

I think you meant "shoe". LOL!

Is one of President Bush's policies to ignore enforcement of our laws, in order to gain the hispanic vote? That seems to be the RINO way as of late.


23 posted on 07/17/2005 1:19:09 PM PDT by Trteamer ( (Eat Meat, Wear Fur, Own Guns, FReep Leftists, Drive an SUV, Drill A.N.W.R., Drill the Gulf, Vote)
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To: Cultural Jihad
Watch the unAmerican Buchananites have conniptions over the American Dream which they themselves are either unwilling or unable to live.

Damn right...our money goes to paying bills, buying food with real money...paying for medical care and insurance and we don't get the handouts that illegals do. We've worked this Country into what it is today, I believe we have a right to expect we'd get to reap the benefits of what we and our forefathers sowed. Instead we have to sit and watch as those who stole across our borders and stole our jobs are now stealing the very houses that should go to Americans. Frankly I'm sick of the cultural jihad that the mexicans have declared on America.

24 posted on 07/17/2005 5:28:17 PM PDT by SouthernFreebird
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To: SouthernFreebird; Trteamer; proudofthesouth; ken21; MeneMeneTekelUpharsin; philetus
"The America that I grew up in is long gone thanks to gutless and/or corrupt politicans. I weep for the country that I love."

It's unbelievable. The problem has been growing here in north Texas for years but now I can safely say that 85% of the nearest school to me is 'immigrant' population, most or all of them are illegal.

=============================

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Myths and lies of illegal immigration

* * * *

The Law Against Hiring or Harboring Illegal Aliens - An Overview of Federal Law.

* * *
Who is the Cheap Labor Lobby?


25 posted on 07/17/2005 6:55:51 PM PDT by Happy2BMe (Viva La MIGRA - LONG LIVE THE BORDER PATROL!)
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To: SouthernFreebird; 1_Inch_Group; 2sheep; 2Trievers; 3AngelaD; 3rdcanyon; 4.1O dana super trac pak; ..
Click to see other threads related to illegal aliens in America
Click to FR-mail me for addition or removal

That's a lot of American money leaving our borders. Now had people employed Americans all that cash would have been spent here.

Actually, the numbers for remittances run into the Billions - 14, at last count - of dollars leaving our economy each and every year.

And the banks are making a killing by imposing a modest surcharge for each transaction.

26 posted on 07/18/2005 8:39:54 AM PDT by HiJinx ("A landowner has no duty to aid trespassers." ~ U.S. District Court Judge John M. Roll)
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To: Trteamer
Here is the reason the President will not enforce the border.
27 posted on 07/18/2005 8:44:14 AM PDT by hedgetrimmer
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To: shattered
It's unbelievable. The problem has been growing here in north Texas for years but now I can safely say that 85% of the nearest school to me is 'immigrant' population, most or all of them are illegal.

A common thing here in Mexifornia, and we have to finance this and every other form of freebies for the illegals. Is this what the President referred to as "compassionate conservatism"? The sellout of America continues...

28 posted on 07/18/2005 9:02:41 AM PDT by janetgreen
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To: philetus
Thats pretty good pay for a job an American won't do.

He must be a "supervisor". The crews make less. Ask any American construction worker who has lost his job to illegal aliens who work for less and get their medical care and everything else free. Lots of these Americans are losing their homes because of being replaced by illegal alien labor.

According to our government, these men must "seek more education" and find another occupation. How do they feed their families and pay their bills while they're "seeking" this education? Why should an American have to give up his job to an illegal alien who shouldn't even be here in the first place?

Compassionate conservatism? Only towards illegal aliens, not American citizens.

29 posted on 07/18/2005 9:08:57 AM PDT by janetgreen
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To: HiJinx

Protect our borders and coastlines from all foreign invaders!

Be Ever Vigilant!

Minutemen Patriots ~ Bump!


30 posted on 07/18/2005 9:11:27 AM PDT by blackie (Be Well~Be Armed~Be Safe~Molon Labe!)
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To: ken21; proudofthesouth; hispanarepublicana
Let's get our words correct:

the term "Hispanic" is defined by the U.S. Census Bureau as: "Spanish-speaking people in the United States of any race."

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong; but Mexicans in Mexico do not view themselves as Hispanic; they view themselves as "Mexicano".

But the term "Hispanic" only applies to Spanish speaking people, who live in the United States, regardless of race or nationality.
31 posted on 07/18/2005 9:29:22 AM PDT by FBD
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To: Cultural Jihad

>"Obviously the intent was just as written: Hispanics are not welcome, and illegal immigration is just their current excuse."<


- Explique por favor su definición del "hispanico".
Usted está refiriendo al Mexicano, o a la gente de habla hispana de raza, sin importar nacionalidad?


32 posted on 07/18/2005 9:42:09 AM PDT by FBD
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To: FBD; ken21; proudofthesouth

Although I can speak Spanish, I don't really speak it that much. Here's dictionary.com's definition, which I agree with much more than the bureaucrats' definition (who, by the way, historically has classified hispanic as "white" and correctly in my view):
"A U.S. citizen or resident of Latin-American or Spanish descent."
But, I'm an American first, followed (ever so) CLOSELY by Texan, and then Hispanic.
I chuckle at those who call all EVERYBODY of hispanic descent a "Mexican" then complain that we're the ones who don't see ourselves as Americans.
The media is just as bad. They think it's politically incorrect to use the word "illegal", so they just say "hispanic" making things even worse.
Finally, I'll add my pet peeve to your important correction, and that's the fact that "hispanic" is NOT a race. There are officially 3 races as classified by scientists: Caucasoid; Negroid; and Mongoloid. Virtually all of humanity in the 21st Century is some combination of the three.


33 posted on 07/18/2005 9:42:48 AM PDT by hispanarepublicana (There will be no bad talk or loud talk in this place. CB Stubblefield.)
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To: proudofthesouth
"I weep for the country that I love. "

What a drama queen.

The Alabama I knew needed to change. I used to stay at my Aunt and Uncle's home because they were the only relatives who had indoor plumbing. They rented their house from The mill for $4.00 per month and all our store bought food and clothes came from the mill stores.

Fearing change is normal but humans have the intellect to overcome that fear.

34 posted on 07/18/2005 9:45:17 AM PDT by bayourod (There's nothing conservative about being Anti-business, Anti-Bush, Anti-14th, Anti-immigrant, Anti-f)
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To: Happy2BMe

They would be sending less money overseas if they had to pay for all the freebies we are subsidizing for them.


35 posted on 07/18/2005 9:50:32 AM PDT by KittyKares
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To: proudofthesouth

You and me both , Man. I just drove through a town in my truck and I thought all of them were going to jump in the back. It is sickening.


36 posted on 07/18/2005 9:54:12 AM PDT by rambo316 (Peace Through Superior Firepower)
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To: hispanarepublicana
>Finally, I'll add my pet peeve to your important correction, and that's the fact that "hispanic" is NOT a race."<

-Yes, the way most folks are using it, one would think it applied specifically to Mexicans. It seems to be a very misunderstood term.

>"There are officially 3 races as classified by scientists: Caucasoid; Negroid; and Mongoloid. Virtually all of humanity in the 21st Century is some combination of the three."<

I recall reading that, but had forgotten what the three races were. Thanks for educating me.
BTW, I enjoy your interesting comments, and you are always polite and civil!
(I need to work on that!)
;^)
37 posted on 07/18/2005 9:56:27 AM PDT by FBD
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To: FBD
but had forgotten what the three races were

I might or might not have gotten the 3 "official" names right, but I'm sure I'll hear about it if I got it wrong.

38 posted on 07/18/2005 9:57:50 AM PDT by hispanarepublicana (There will be no bad talk or loud talk in this place. CB Stubblefield.)
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To: hispanarepublicana

>"I'm sure I'll hear about it if I got it wrong."<

-Yes you will! LOL


39 posted on 07/18/2005 10:07:42 AM PDT by FBD
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To: Clemenza

I agree. Cubans are sending approximately $500,000,000mper year back to Cuba, despite our embargo.


40 posted on 07/18/2005 10:12:56 AM PDT by bigsigh
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To: hispanarepublicana; FBD

Don't worry, you got them right. If anyone takes you to task, send 'em to Jinxie and I'll set 'em straight.

The 'Racist' epithet is becoming more ludicrous daily in its misapplication by the Left. Pretty soon - if not already - it will be meaningless.


41 posted on 07/18/2005 10:28:16 AM PDT by HiJinx ("A landowner has no duty to aid trespassers." ~ U.S. District Court Judge John M. Roll)
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To: bayourod

You don't get it. I weep for what my country has become because its being destroyed from within. Because the politicans in our country don't have the integrity and convictions of our forefathers. Because I see our freedoms slowly erroding and being taken away from us. Contrary to what you say, I don't fear change - so long as it makes something better and not worse.


42 posted on 07/18/2005 10:34:53 AM PDT by proudofthesouth (Boycotting movies since 1988)
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To: proudofthesouth
"Because the politicans in our country don't have the integrity and convictions of our forefathers."

President Bush, Vice President Cheney, Majority Leaders Frist and DeLay, as well as our Cabinet members and RNC leadership have as much integrity and convictions as our forefathers.

Just because a person disagrees with you doesn't mean they lack integrity or convictions.

43 posted on 07/18/2005 10:41:27 AM PDT by bayourod (There's nothing conservative about being Anti-business, Anti-Bush, Anti-14th, Anti-immigrant, Anti-f)
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To: HiJinx
The 'Racist' epithet is becoming more ludicrous daily in its misapplication by the Left. Pretty soon - if not already - it will be meaningless.

And, the harm that the left is doing is that on the few occasions when there really IS racism, the charge is discounted by the offending party as "oh brother, another cry of racism". I so detested this constant cry of "racist" as far back as my youth that I said not a word to ANYONE (until this very moment) when 20 yrs ago my victory for student body president was given to the loser because of my ethnicity (a student aide who helped count the votes told me this, and it was independently confirmed by my opponent who himself tearfully informed me of this after the principal "bragged" about it to him with a wink). My opponent's misery and graciousness as well as my fear for what more "militant" types would do to him was another reason for my silence. Oh well, no skin off my nose in the end. I think he's frying burgers at Dairy Queen now or something.

44 posted on 07/18/2005 10:41:55 AM PDT by hispanarepublicana (There will be no bad talk or loud talk in this place. CB Stubblefield.)
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To: hispanarepublicana

Liberal Arts Major = "You want fries with that?"

I know, old bad joke. I hear similar tales from my daughter-in-law...one of her pet peeves is when people expect her to be able to speak Spanish. Her family has spoken English at home since her Mexican grandparents became US citizens by virtue of Arizona statehood.


45 posted on 07/18/2005 11:00:08 AM PDT by HiJinx ("A landowner has no duty to aid trespassers." ~ U.S. District Court Judge John M. Roll)
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To: bayourod
The Alabama I knew needed to change. I used to stay at my Aunt and Uncle's home because they were the only relatives who had indoor plumbing. They rented their house from The mill for $4.00 per month and all our store bought food and clothes came from the mill stores.

That was like 200 years ago that rent was 4 dollars a month...just how old are you? BTW if you think squeezing 15 families into one small house and filling the yard with goats and chickens is an improvement to Alabama then your nuts.

46 posted on 07/18/2005 11:38:52 AM PDT by SouthernFreebird
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To: SouthernFreebird
"That was like 200 years ago that rent was 4 dollars a month..."

No, it was the 50s. Alabama had mill towns. Every house in town was owned by the mill. Get fired you lost your house.

47 posted on 07/18/2005 12:08:42 PM PDT by bayourod (There's nothing conservative about being Anti-business, Anti-Bush, Anti-14th, Anti-immigrant, Anti-f)
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To: Happy2BMe

Gosh it's too bad Americans (citizens) can't send their earning out of the country to avoid federal and state taxes.

But these wonderful immigrants are saving are economy and contributing so much to the nation. I'm sure our representatives in Congress are working hard to develop more programs that will provide more incentives to keep them coming to and staying in America.


48 posted on 07/18/2005 5:09:01 PM PDT by CharlieChan
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