Posted on 07/18/2005 1:20:40 PM PDT by NormsRevenge
SACRAMENTO (AP) - A federal judge said Monday he is inclined to dismiss part of a lawsuit brought by a Sacramento atheist who claims the Pledge of Allegiance is an unconstitutional endorsement of religion.
U.S. District Judge Lawrence Karlton said he would allow Michael Newdow, a doctor and lawyer, to sue four Sacramento-area school districts where children he is representing attend and recite the pledge. The judge said Newdow could not challenge the pledge itself and the words "under God," which Congress inserted in 1954.
"What I'm doing is cutting out a whole lot of your case and making it narrow," Karlton said during the first hearing on the lawsuit, which is the second over the pledge brought by Newdow.
The U.S. Supreme Court dismissed his first case last year, saying Newdow lacked standing to bring it on behalf of his elementary-aged daughter because he did not have custody of her.
If the judge stands by his comments Monday, Newdow's latest lawsuit would focus strictly on whether reciting the pledge in public schools is an unconstitutional endorsement of religion. Even if Newdow were to win on that point, the pledge itself would remain intact.
The judge said Newdow may have a valid point.
"There is nothing whatsoever that requires acknowledging God to love this country," Karlton said.
Terence Cassidy, a lawyer for the Elk Grove Unified School District, urged Karlton to dismiss the case. He said reciting the pledge in school was not about religion, but rather is designed "to teach children about patriotism."
Newdow's lawsuit was filed against the school districts, the state and Congress and seeks to have the entire pledge declared unconstitutional.
After Monday's hearing, he appeared unmoved by the judge's expected narrowing of the lawsuit. He said any decision was likely to be appealed.
Newdow won his initial case more than two years ago before a San Francisco federal appeals court. That court said it was an unconstitutional blending of church and state for public school students to pledge to God.
The U.S. Supreme Court rejected the case in June 2004, saying Newdow could not lawfully sue because he did not have custody of his daughter and because the girl's mother objected to the lawsuit. Newdow and the mother were never married.
Eight co-plaintiffs have joined the latest lawsuit, all of whom are children or custodial parents who have filed the suit on behalf of their children, Newdow said. The plaintiffs' names have been withheld from the suit for fear of physical harm.
"We're a despised minority," Newdow told the judge.
When the Supreme Court dismissed his previous case, three justices - Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist and justices Sandra Day O'Connor and Clarence Thomas - made clear they would have upheld the religious reference Congress inserted into the pledge in 1954. A fourth justice, Antonin Scalia, removed himself from the case after making off-the-bench remarks that seemed to telegraph his view that the pledge is constitutional.
Karlton did not indicate when he would issue a written ruling.
The case is Newdow v. Congress, 05-00017.
I wonder why? ;-)
Of course they never married. Newdow is Gay.
That would explain a lot. You are joking though, right?
(steely)
Next time a liberal asks "why are people wasting time banning same-sex marriage when there are so many other pressing problems in our country?" ask the same thing back about this.
Never met an Atheist or an Agnostic in the foxhole or at a disaster scene. Says a lot about Nedow the first he can control but his attitude proves he doesn't have the stomach to defend the freedoms he so enjoys abusing and the later will eventually come to him. The laws of mathematical probability say so.
I still say he has no standing in this case. He doesn't have custody of the girls, and she is a practicing Christian who prays and attends church according to her mother.
I wonder who he thanked when his daughter was born with 10 toes, 10 fingers, and healthy? a tree?
The ability of folks like him to deny their core beginnings whether they like it or not is troubling. It isn't born of ignorance , more arrogance.
Newdow, God's gonna get ya for that.. unless a tree gets him first. stranger things have happened. ;-)
Honest opinion, do you think he has a shot at winning this?
You are a despised minority, because of the fact that despite your minority status, you and your allies and associates have created a secularist and atheist religion of the state, which by the way violates the First Amendment, and have forced it upon every man, woman, and child in America.
The Founding Fathers would be astounded by this development.
Someone needs to write a book about this.
Anyone who denies the existence of a Creator also denies that the basic human rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, as well as freedom and democracy, are God-given rights.
Secularists believe that these are Government-given rights, for Government is "god." Nancy Pelosi herself says that when the Supreme Court speaks, it is as if God is speaking.
If man created government, and Government is "god," then in theory man can take away these rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. They are then not "rights" at all, they are privledges, not given to us because God has given them to every person who is born on this earth, but because someone decides who gets to be "free" and who doesn't. That's a very dangerous path.
Now if you choose to claim that you and your group are outside my experiences OK. That still doesn't change the statement of my personal observations.
As we all know there are always exceptions to the general rule.
Senior District Court Judge Lawrence K. Karlton (LKK)
Born 1935 in Brooklyn, NY
Federal Judicial Service:
U. S. District Court, Eastern District of California
Nominated by Jimmy Carter on June 5, 1979, to a seat vacated by Thomas J. MacBride; Confirmed by the Senate on July 23, 1979, and received commission on July 24, 1979. Served as chief judge, 1983-1990. Assumed senior status on May 28, 2000.
http://207.41.18.73/caed/staticOther/page_516.htm
I wonder what Jimmy Carter thinks -- with all his fault, he is deeply religious.
I'll go ya one better. I have asked to have the post by the freethinker deleted .
I won't see my threads used to recruit for the ACLU and People of the American Way, amongst other orgs..
They don't like it, tough.
They can ask God to intervene on their behalf.
Just curious.
Do you support or oppose military recruiters being allowed to recruit on college or high school campuses?
That description, Mr. Newdow, is not what I would deem appropriate. Satan's minions is a more correct revelation.
Some do; some do not. And there are some Christians who believe that government should act directly as an agent of God by enforcing all Biblical law.
The pledge is working marvelously at finding the godless commies in our midst I tell ya .
I may be changing my mind about having it yanked, and I'm not even a female. lol ;-)
I have been strategerizing how to make hay out a plea to check out the godless that serve in the military and who they pray to in combat.
Altho I would still like to know if qam1 supports military recruiters on college and high school campuses, being as a number of the contributors sites for MAAF are those very same fighting a battle to keep recruiters off of campuses.. Ironic, No?
Thanks!
Developing.. :)
HUH?
It's a Military organization, It has nothing to do with the ACLU or any other leftist groups. The "MA" in the beginning of their name stands for "Military Association". Get it??
What you don't like the Military or something?
Just curious. Do you support or oppose military recruiters being allowed to recruit on college or high school campuses?
uuummm. Support it
How about you? Since you are the one attacking 34% of our troops I kind of wonder
Doesn't have the stomach is right.
Saw a headline today that said the Army met its goal because of re-ups even though recruiting is dropping off.
Same wonderful people are willing to step up and protect everyone else - even losers like Newdow. Most of us aren't worthy of those fine young people.
Do you acknowledge you link to all the orgs below?
They are listed on 'your' website and Community page.
Some network you have.. lol
What's up with that?
Some of those orgs may not be to pleased to hear you support Military Recruiters on campuses.
..and using a poll to discredit me, is that the PC thing nowadays?
I was never asked when I was in the military if I prayed when I was on or off duty. Everytime the bird left the ground, a silent prayer went up.
BY the way , have you ever prayed, and if so, why did you stop?
I feel honored to be able to call them my younger brothers and sisters.
I feel honored to be able to call them my younger brothers and sisters.
-----
In the finest tradition of the US Military.
Amen to that.
uuummm. Support it
How about you? Since you are the one attacking 34% of our troops I kind of wonder.
-------
If you want to impugn folks, be a little more clever in trying to make your point, that was a dud, imo.
Oh, and why the uuummm. & hesitation?
I was recruited straight out of high school and served in the Corps, btw.
Nope.
The argument was if there are any Atheist/Agnostics in foxholes.
I provided a link that showed there are some.
Now whether they are Conservative, Liberals and Independents just doesn't matter, They are actually Atheist that served this country thus the Christian saying "There are no Atheist in a foxhole" is a lie.
This line of attack is also ridiculous on your part because
1) Those links are in their General Links section, There is nothing to suggest the groups have anything to do with each other. In fact the political affiliations of the members of that group are not even listed so you don't know.
2) Rush Limbaugh also has had dealings with the ACLU, So if anyone here links to a Rush Limbaugh article or quotes him, does that mean they are in cahoots with the ACLU?
3) The Militarize own website, has a link to them. So I guess by your own warped logic the Army, Navy, Air Force & Marines support the ACLU
They are listed on 'your' website and Community page. Some network you have.. lol. What's up with that?
Now that's just a flat out lie.
None of those sites are listed on my Freeper page. I've been here for nearly 3 years, I would think if they were I would be long gone by now.
My personal page, Well I have two. One is on hiking in the Adirondacks and has nothing to do with Politics or Religion and the other I have GOP Icons of many Republicans for download so again you are just lying.
Some of those orgs may not be to pleased to hear you support Military Recruiters on campuses.
Good for them
..and using a poll to discredit me, is that the PC thing nowadays?
Look again, It wasn't a poll it's the Armed Forces own statistics.
I was never asked when I was in the military if I prayed when I was on or off duty. Everytime the bird left the ground, a silent prayer went up.
You got a dog tag right?
What's on the bottom line and how did they get that information and don't you think they keep track of such information?
BY the way , have you ever prayed, and if so, why did you stop?
I was given a Bible when I was 12 years old and unlike most Christians I actually read the thing and I've found it to be incompatible with reality.
Plus when people can only prop up their belief by spending all their time demonizing and lying about people who believe differently than they do that pretty much tells me they are wrong. That's what Democrats do and look how wrong they are. "There are no Atheist in a foxhole" said hatefully by a Christian is no different than Howard Dean hatefully claiming "There are no blacks at a Republican Convention except the hotel staff". Both are just cheap little cute soundbites that have no substance behind them.
And Just look how well that tactic is working for the Democrats, and I'm sure I don't have to post a poll to show you that more & more people are abandoning religion so you using the same tactic they do is working out equally as well.
If you want to impugn folks, be a little more clever in trying to make your point, that was a dud, imo.
As opposed to you flat out lying about my support and nonexistent links to the ACLU on my home page?
And opposed to you attacking the many Atheist who serve in our armed services with distinction.
Do you not salute them for the service?
Are Atheist like say Pat Tillman who died in battle for you & me not heroes?
I thank all members of the service whether they are Atheist, Christian, Jew, Hindu, Wiccan, or whatever. Are you big enough to do the same?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.