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Remember the Pueblo ((( "The Middle Finger" )))
NYT ^ | 7/19/05 | Nicholas Kristof

Posted on 07/18/2005 8:01:19 PM PDT by Tumbleweed_Connection

...The Pueblo is the Navy ship that North Korea seized in 1968 in waters off the country's east coast, setting off an international crisis. One American sailor was killed and 82 others were imprisoned for nearly a year and tortured into writing confessions. To signal that the confessions were forced, the sailors listed accomplices like the television character Maxwell Smart.

When forced to pose for a photo, some crew members extended their middle fingers to the camera, explaining to the North Korean photographer that this was a Hawaiian good luck sign. After the photo was published and the North Korean guards realized they'd been had, the sailors suffered a week of particularly brutal torture.

As the first Navy vessel to surrender in peacetime since 1807, the Pueblo was a humiliation for America. And it has become a propaganda trophy for North Korea, with ordinary Koreans paraded through in organized tours to fire up nationalist support for the Dear Leader, Kim Jong Il.

Then Mr. Kim decided the propaganda would be even better if the ship was moved from the east coast to the capital. So the Korean Navy disguised the Pueblo as a freighter, ran up the North Korean flag and sailed it for nine days through international waters around South Korea to the west coast of North Korea, and then up a river to Pyongyang. In 1999, the Pueblo opened triumphantly to crowds in Pyongyang.

"When this ship left Wonsan port [on the east coast], Japanese ships mobilized to check it," said Col. Kim Jung Rok, who as a 28-year-old sailor helped storm the Pueblo and is now in charge of it. "But then they saw it was an ordinary freighter and withdrew."...

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial
KEYWORDS: navy; news; northkorea; usspueblo

1 posted on 07/18/2005 8:01:20 PM PDT by Tumbleweed_Connection
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
I was in basic training at Ft Campbell back then...
The DI's told us all our MOS training had been canceled
and nobody had to worry about fighting in Viet Nam as
we all (DI's included) were off to Korea to get our guys back.

Needless to say we did not go...

We should have ...imo
2 posted on 07/18/2005 8:05:18 PM PDT by joesnuffy
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
I can't believe we let them parade the boat around like that. A MOAB would solve the problem nicely.

Or if folks don't want to be too obvious, Thor's Hammer, Smart Rocks, or Brilliant Pebbles would do the job nicely. I will be mightily disappointed if we do not have that capability yet.

3 posted on 07/18/2005 8:10:27 PM PDT by Coyoteman
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To: joesnuffy

I was in US Navy Recruit Training at Great Lakes when this happened. Our DIs said "The good news is most of the harrassment and haranguement common in boot camp will go away. The bad news is your training will be compressed and sleep time is cancelled."


4 posted on 07/18/2005 8:10:58 PM PDT by Jumpmaster (Teddy is all wet.)
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
Yep CDR Loyd M. Bucher
5 posted on 07/18/2005 8:11:59 PM PDT by SandRat (Duty, Honor, Country. What else needs to be said?)
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection

CMDR LLoyd Bucher was skipper of Pueblo. Wrote book later. Great read!


6 posted on 07/18/2005 8:13:01 PM PDT by Jumpmaster (Teddy is all wet.)
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
The 1999 event was...

Under the Clinton Administration after Bill Clinton gave North Korea repeated bribes to be good folks. The appeasement resulted in this.

Thank you, NYT, for not bothering to put any of this in context, you lunk heads.
7 posted on 07/18/2005 8:15:45 PM PDT by kingu
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection

I just ran across this he other day. The photo is onlien somewhere.


8 posted on 07/18/2005 8:17:21 PM PDT by BunnySlippers (Be a Good Mullah Now ...)
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To: BunnySlippers

9 posted on 07/18/2005 8:18:54 PM PDT by LibFreeUSA
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To: Jumpmaster
Me, I was on the USS Enterprise when that happened attached to VF-96. We were in Sasebo, Japan and we had immediate orders to steam up to North Korea which we did. I worked the flight deck and I remember that it was real cold especially when we turned into the wind to launch our planes. Those of us who work the flight deck cut the sleeves off of sweaters to wear over our heads to try and keep warm.

Our original mission was to go back to Vietnam and the South China Sea and apparently there was not that much cold weather gear on board. Parley
10 posted on 07/18/2005 8:19:41 PM PDT by Parley Baer
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To: Jumpmaster

I think, that Mrs. Bucher was riding in her Van, that took a hit by an explosion while she was driving it in San Diego, an earlier terrorist attack,..that draws little attention now..


11 posted on 07/18/2005 8:19:41 PM PDT by JoanneSD
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To: BunnySlippers
That was my uncle monroe goldman that gave them bastards the finger the story was they came to his cell and told his cell mate that his brother had been killed in nam.they laugh and joked about it as my uncle told me so he gave them the finger when ask what that meant he said it meant good luck .when they found out what it really meant, they beat him badly.may they all die in hell.he still suffers today.
12 posted on 07/18/2005 8:26:22 PM PDT by phuzman (n)
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
When Bush administration officials rattle sabers at North Korea, they're helping to keep Kim Jong Il in power.

Then later:

The Bush administration's dismissal of serious, direct diplomacy has made Korea more dangerous.

The author seems to say that if we take Kim seriously, we strengthen him, but if we ignore him, we strengthen him. He contradicts himself, leading me to believe that Bush's multinational approach is about the best we can do until we see a need for aggressive action.

13 posted on 07/18/2005 8:45:47 PM PDT by AZLiberty (French: The language of diplomacy, except for the French)
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To: joesnuffy

God what a year 1968 was !


14 posted on 07/18/2005 8:53:37 PM PDT by Mears (Keep the government out of my face!)
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Comment #15 Removed by Moderator

Comment #16 Removed by Moderator

To: Tumbleweed_Connection

Wasn't there something similar when Gerald Ford was President or was that the Pueblo crew coming home ?


17 posted on 07/18/2005 9:26:55 PM PDT by 1066AD
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To: cavanman

You are right...thanks for correcting me..


18 posted on 07/18/2005 9:45:02 PM PDT by JoanneSD
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Comment #19 Removed by Moderator

To: JoanneSD

I remember that..it was near UTC...


20 posted on 07/18/2005 10:11:45 PM PDT by sofaman
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To: sofaman

Right incident...wrong people...


21 posted on 07/18/2005 10:13:04 PM PDT by sofaman
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To: cavanman

Yes, that's it. Thanks.


22 posted on 07/18/2005 10:57:20 PM PDT by 1066AD
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To: cavanman

yes thats him


23 posted on 07/19/2005 3:56:41 AM PDT by phuzman (n)
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To: phuzman

Please pass along thanks to your Uncle, not just for his service, but also for showing his grit and courage in that picture. It sounds like a terrible time for him.

You wrote that he still suffers today. He will be in my prayers.


24 posted on 07/19/2005 6:07:31 AM PDT by chgomac
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To: SandRat
One of the famous pics


25 posted on 07/19/2005 6:12:41 AM PDT by Larry Lucido
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To: LibFreeUSA

Should have scrolled down the thread first, I guess!


26 posted on 07/19/2005 6:13:19 AM PDT by Larry Lucido
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To: Larry Lucido
Well, then, here's Cmdr. Bucher.


27 posted on 07/19/2005 6:15:52 AM PDT by Larry Lucido
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To: chgomac

Thankyou for your prayers his a good man that suffered for his country.Its a shame that we never got the ship back.He was not in the picture above but I have a news paper clip with him and other officers giving the bird.


28 posted on 07/19/2005 4:13:11 PM PDT by phuzman (n)
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Comment #29 Removed by Moderator

To: Mears

" God what a year 1968 was !"

Uh-huh. I was 6. My hometown Tigers beat the St Louis Cardinals in the World Serious. I can still remember the big tiger float in the Thanksgiving Day parade in downtown Detroit. It was huge and had red 'cardinal' feathers in its' mouth. I can see it in my minds eye to this very day.


30 posted on 07/19/2005 6:04:39 PM PDT by chief_bigfoot ("isn't THAT amazing?" - Ron Popiel)
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To: cavanman

yep sure is, to bad we can get her back from those bastards
or at least sink it so they can not use it as a museum.maybe take some of them with it.


31 posted on 07/19/2005 6:29:36 PM PDT by phuzman (n)
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To: cavanman

yep sure is, to bad we can get her back from those bastards
or at least sink it so they can not use it as a museum.maybe take some of them with it.


32 posted on 07/19/2005 6:37:26 PM PDT by phuzman (n)
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To: chief_bigfoot

I'll be darned----I'm a Red Sox fan and we kinda beat The Cardinals too.


33 posted on 07/19/2005 7:28:03 PM PDT by Mears (Keep the government out of my face!)
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To: Mears

" I'll be darned----I'm a Red Sox fan and we kinda beat The Cardinals too."

That's what you get when your mascot is a stupid red bird. It's not exactly the most fearsome thing in the world, unless you play for the Scanectaty Sunflower Seeds (AA minor league?)....


34 posted on 07/20/2005 3:11:13 AM PDT by chief_bigfoot ("isn't THAT amazing?" - Ron Popiel)
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To: chief_bigfoot

I have a very nice turtleneck (I'm a woman)with 2 red Cardinals embroidered on the neck.I've had it for a long time.

I wore it here in Massachusetts once during the series last fall (not thinking,of course) and I got quite a few comments. Pretty funny!


35 posted on 07/20/2005 10:08:27 AM PDT by Mears (Keep the government out of my face!)
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To: phuzman

That was my uncle monroe goldman .

He was your Uncle?? His brother Don is my uncle.


36 posted on 07/20/2005 10:12:55 AM PDT by Lovergirl (Proud member of the Pajama Brigade.)
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To: Mears
I'm a Red Sox fan and we kinda beat The Cardinals too.

Not in 1967, though :(

37 posted on 07/20/2005 10:30:21 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (Deadcheck the embeds first.)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets

Nope---it took a long time but it was worth it.Oh what a year 2004 was for Sox fans,Pats fans,and Republicans.

It doesn't get much better than that(except for the poor Bruins fans).


38 posted on 07/20/2005 10:34:30 AM PDT by Mears (Keep the government out of my face!)
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To: joesnuffy
We should have ...imo

The F4C's which were scrabbled should have been allowed to do their mission.

39 posted on 07/20/2005 10:40:15 AM PDT by ASA Vet (Ignore all silly tag lines.)
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To: Lovergirl

ok who is this?don was my dad who just passed away last year.this is his son phil


40 posted on 07/20/2005 4:33:09 PM PDT by phuzman (n)
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To: Lovergirl


41 posted on 07/20/2005 4:42:56 PM PDT by phuzman (n)
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