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Amazing Facts ^ | Rick Mathes

Posted on 07/20/2005 7:30:23 AM PDT by RUSHLUVER

Allah or Jesus? by Rick Mathes

Last month I attended my annual training session that's required for maintaining my state prison security clearance. During the training session there was a presentation by three speakers representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who explained each of their belief systems.

I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say. The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam, complete with a video. After the presentations, time was provided for questions and answers.

When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and asked:

"Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the world. And, that by killing an infidel, which is a command to all Muslims, they are assured of a place in heaven. If that's the case, can you give me the definition of an infidel?"

There was no disagreement with my statements and, without hesitation, he replied, "Non-believers!" I responded, "So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can go to Heaven. Is that correct?"

The expression on his face changed from one of authority and command to that of a little boy who had just gotten caught with his hand in the cookie jar. He sheepishly replied, "Yes."

I then stated, "Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine Pope John Paul commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith or Dr. Stanley ordering Protestants to do the same in order to go to Heaven!"

The Imam was speechless.

I continued, "I also have a problem with being your friend when you and your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me.

Let me ask you a question. Would you rather have your Allah who tells you to kill me in order to go to Heaven or my Jesus who tells me to love you because I am going to Heaven and He wants you to be with me?"

You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam hung his head in shame.

Needless to say, the organizers and/or promoters of the 'Diversification' training seminar were not happy with Rick's way of dealing with the Islamic Imam and exposing the truth about the Muslim's beliefs.

I think everyone in the US should be required to read this, but with the liberal justice system, liberal media, and the ACLU, there is no way this will be widely publicized.

Please pass this on to all your e-mail contacts. This is a true story and the author, Rick Mathes, is a well known leader in prison ministry.

Send this information to all your friends in emails and letters. Post this information on your web site and on news services. Post the free creation v. evolution animations and any of the other free animations on your web sites or send them in emails.

TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: islam; muslim; waronterror
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From Rick Mathes Sent Wednesday, July 20, 2005 7:15 am To Joseph Lobosco Cc Bcc Subject Re: Did this really happen?

Dear Joseph,

Greetings in the Spirit of our Lord!

This article is an exact reporting of a real event I participated in.

Regarding the snopes "false" report:

1. Mr. Kniest was not at the training session to know what did or did not occur. And what would you expect him to say for fear of Muslim retribution.

2. The official that said this conversation did not happen remains "unnamed" and why doesn't someone ask the dozen or so volunteers about it. They heard every word.

3. The inmate was introduced as the Muslim Imam that was chosen by the fellow Muslims to lead them and chosen by the Department of Corrections to teach us. We had no reason to question it because there are Priests and Ministers in prison that do the same.

4. I prefaced my remarks with, "Please correct me if I am wrong," and he didn't.

5. When I said, "It is real hard to be your friend," everyone burst out laughing.

6. We felt sorry for him and I gave him a hand sign and said, "Salaam" and he did the same back to me with a smile.

I asked questions and recorded the answers or lack thereof. Socrates did the same but I am not into drinking hemlock.

The false report issued by Snopes does not question my reporting but my major premise and they base it on the word of Muslims clerics that can't even agree on what a "jihad" is.

The article is not the issue the issue is the issue:

Would you rather have an Allah who says to kill me to go to heaven or a Jesus who says for me to love you because I am going to heaven and He would like you to be with me?

Isn't it interesting that NO ONE has commented on the issue. They would rather destroy the messenger and ignore the message.

I hope this clears up things for you.

Press On! Rick Mathes


Dear Rick Mathes

Don't worry I am aware of how liberal Snopes is. In fact I'm aware of how liberal most internet search engines ie google are as well. We are fighting a massive disinformation program from the left. They are losing their control over the mainstream media but are trying to keep control over information disseminated over the internet. The United States is fighting a real hot war against Islamo-facists for our very survival and unfortunately they are receiving aid and comfort by the left.Dont let the left stop you.

I believe you and I wil forward your email AS FACT to everyone in my address book.If there is anything I can do to help please let me know.God Bless you. Keep fighting the fight

1 posted on 07/20/2005 7:30:24 AM PDT by RUSHLUVER
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This is old news.

2 posted on 07/20/2005 7:33:29 AM PDT by frogjerk
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3 posted on 07/20/2005 7:36:27 AM PDT by Fiddlstix (This Tagline for sale. (Presented by TagLines R US))
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The $64,000 question. Did Rick maintain his state prison security clearance?

4 posted on 07/20/2005 7:36:53 AM PDT by hflynn ( Soros wouldn't make any sense even if he spelled his name backwards)
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To: frogjerk

"This is old news."

"From Rick Mathes Sent Wednesday, July 20, 2005 7:15 am To Joseph Lobosco Cc Bcc Subject Re: Did this really happen?"

Yeah. Looks like it's about 2 hours old!

5 posted on 07/20/2005 7:37:53 AM PDT by chaosagent (Remember, no matter how you slice it, forbidden fruit still tastes the sweetest!)
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To: frogjerk
This is old news.

It's new to me.

6 posted on 07/20/2005 7:50:04 AM PDT by LoneRangerMassachusetts (Some say what's good for others, the others make the goods; it's the meddlers against the peddlers)
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It's kind of frightening how many Americans (mostly black) convert to Islam in prison. They do it mainly for the same reason others join gangs there or white supremacist groups, for protection. Their Muslim "brothers" will protect them from rape or other abuse. It's bad enough that so many join these criminal organizations and remain involved with them even after they are released, but that so many are becoming Muslims is probably even more frightening than seeing so many join gangs or white supremacist groups (basically racist meth dealing gangs). These guys spread their faith when they get out and recruit new Muslims and these new converts and those they infect are learning the same "death to nonbelievers" ideology. Then they give their children Arabic names and pass their dangerous religion on down to new generations.

We just add fuel to the fire by continuing to increase prison populations that are already many times larger in total and on a per capita basis than they ever were before the late 1970's. On average people only spend a couple of years in prison when you include the lifers and those there for a year or less. Most get out in a good bit less than two years and in most cases are probably worse people than they were when they went in. Someday I hope people will understand that the only thing prison is good for is keeping the really bad people off the streets and away from the rest of us and we'll start putting far fewer people in but keeping the real threats to society in for a lot longer. As it is we're just training a growing number of people to be worse criminals and adding to the memberships roles of criminal organizations while we help recruit more and more Muslims who hate us "infidels" that make up the rest of the country.
7 posted on 07/20/2005 7:52:55 AM PDT by TKDietz
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To: TKDietz
We just add fuel to the fire by continuing to increase prison populations that are already many times larger in total and on a per capita basis than they ever were before the late 1970's.

So what we should do is release them. Is that what you are saying? :-D

8 posted on 07/20/2005 7:55:16 AM PDT by blueberry12
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To: frogjerk

Old news? Those who forget history are doomed.

And then there are many of us who read this for the first time. Give us a chance to learn something before being so dismissive of repetition. That's why they have history books that record important information.

9 posted on 07/20/2005 7:56:00 AM PDT by wildbill
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Snopes is not only liberal, it does shoddy research.

I am personally aware that it's "debunking" of urban legends is inaccurate and agenda driven.

10 posted on 07/20/2005 7:56:21 AM PDT by Valpal1 (Crush jihadists, drive collaborators before you, hear the lamentations of their media. Allahu FUBAR!)
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I like It is a great source for debunking a lot of the internet 'myths'. The creator even admits when she is wrong and corrects info. She provides links and stuff. Also, I don't think snopes is liberal or even anti-religious. (Or pro-religious, conservative, whatever). She just seems skeptical of everything.

11 posted on 07/20/2005 7:57:47 AM PDT by sportutegrl (People who say, "All I know is . . ." really mean, "All I want you to focus on is . . .")
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To: LoneRangerMassachusetts
Snopes is not an all-knowing site and they have a bias. Witness their debunking of MLK as the only man to be honored with a national holiday (they cite Columbus and Christmas). Where the common statement is that King is the only American to be honored with a national holiday now that Prez day is generic.

But I am skeptical of this story due to the reactions of the cleric. It just does not seem kosher (if you'll pardon the term).
12 posted on 07/20/2005 8:02:24 AM PDT by Monterrosa-24 (Where is our Charles Martel? Who will be our hammer against Islam?)
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To: TKDietz

The ACLU (that transmission belt to soviet Communist dictatorship ) got its start in prison. Baldwin was
converted to Communism under the watchful eyes of
prison gaurds. And it seems nothing has changed. Our
Prisons have long fomented radical groups intent upon
wreaking havoc upon the system that once imprisoned them.
What was a flowerbed for Communist agitators has evolved
into the latest seed bed of our destruction. My prayer is that the freakin' Muslim terrorists being now groomed in
American prisons will be less effective at decieving the
American people than their predecessors in Communistic ACLU
have been.

13 posted on 07/20/2005 8:04:50 AM PDT by StonyBurk
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To: chaosagent
It's been all over for some time.

Including in my email.

Several times.

14 posted on 07/20/2005 8:06:59 AM PDT by iconoclast (If you only read ONE book this year, make sure it's Colonel David Hunt's !!!)
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Good article, and good commentary following the article.

Thanks for posting.

15 posted on 07/20/2005 8:07:52 AM PDT by EternalHope (Boycott everything French forever. Including their vassal nations.)
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To: blueberry12

Well I would agree to early release of such-- to be burried in pig guts and offal.That they might spend an eternity in the Gehenna they teach all men must visit while waiting Allah's pleasure.But to release such to prey upon the society they are inculcated by their religion of submission to want to kill--would be a crime in itself.

16 posted on 07/20/2005 8:07:59 AM PDT by StonyBurk
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This is the same article posted and Freeped here last year.

The minister, the imam and the handshake

Posted by trashcanbred
On News/Activism 11/22/2004 9:22:06 AM PST · 8 replies · 336+ views

Radio Netherlands ^ | Nov 22, 2004 | Robert Chesal
Dutch Immigration and Integration Minister Rita Verdonk has told Muslim clerics in the Netherlands that they need to assimilate into Dutch society. The minister, a member of the liberal-conservative VVD party, delivered her message in person at the weekend when she attended a meeting with some 50 imams, saying that she wished to continue her dialogue with them next year, only then in the Dutch language. She also called for the creation of a course in the Netherlands to train new imams. However, it was just one aspect of her meeting with the Muslim clerics that grabbed most of the...

17 posted on 07/20/2005 8:08:47 AM PDT by Al Gator (Remember to pillage BEFORE you burn!)
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- Jesus

18 posted on 07/20/2005 8:12:41 AM PDT by Frenetic
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To: Valpal1
I am personally aware that it's "debunking" of urban legends is inaccurate and agenda driven.

You're probably just embarassed that some you really liked and bit on turned out to be nonsense; drives a lot of the hatred of Snopes.

If you look around the site you'll find them trashing Jane Fonda, etc; they're not nearly as biased as people claim they are.

You just happen to notice the conservative or religious oriented urban legends being debunked because you're being exposed to more of them in the first place.

19 posted on 07/20/2005 8:13:45 AM PDT by Strategerist
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The above text, circulating via email since September 2003, was written by Rick Mathes, executive director of Mission Gate Prison Ministry in Chesterfield, Missouri. In subsequent statements on the ministry's Website, Mathes affirmed that the incident took place exactly as described.

However, a different version of events was reported in an article by Greg Kearney of the Lee News Service, in which a spokesperson for the Missouri Department of Corrections, which sponsored the training session, stated that the "imam" Mathes refers to above was a prison inmate and ordinary Muslim, not a trained cleric, and that although the inmate did answer various questions about his faith to the best of his ability, the issues of jihad and violence against non-believers were neither raised nor discussed during the exchange.

It is therefore a case of Mathes' word against the prison official's. I have not been able to find public statements by anyone else in a position to confirm the facts.

As to the substance of the alleged debate — whether or not it is a core tenet of Islam that believers must wage holy war against non-believers wherever they are found — there is fierce disagreement on that issue even among acknowledged experts in Muslim culture and theology, so I will not attempt to defend one side or the other in this brief commentary.

Rick Mathes told that he will not provide further details because, in his words, "I fear retribution - I have a 20 year prison ministry to protect."

Third-party accounts of the events in question paint a significantly different picture than the one offered by Mathes. Tim Kniest, spokesman for the Missouri Department of Corrections, told the Lee news service that the training session in question was for prison volunteers and took place in a corrections facility in Fulton, MO. However, according to Kniest, prison officials' recollection of events that day differ from Mathes' in several aspects:

Religious leaders representing faiths followed by current inmates were invited to present.

The presenter on Islam was not an Imam, but rather a Muslim inmate who was pressed into presenting after no Imam could be arranged.

Prison officials confirm that the Muslim inmate was asked a few questions that he was unable to answer, but none along the lines of those suggested by Mr. Mathes.

I have poked around Mathes's website a little. I clicked on the New Age article, for example, just for fun, and his definition of the term is clearly quite overly broad, apparently for his own purposes. From just a little examination of his site, Mathes's credibility is questionable.

Now, I'm not a New Ager and I'm not a Muslim, nor do I deny that SOME Muslims believe it's their religious duty to kill all others, but when one is as overly broad as Mathes, it discredits his entire cause.

20 posted on 07/20/2005 8:22:06 AM PDT by TBP
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