Posted on 07/20/2005 7:30:23 AM PDT by RUSHLUVER
Allah or Jesus? by Rick Mathes
Last month I attended my annual training session that's required for maintaining my state prison security clearance. During the training session there was a presentation by three speakers representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who explained each of their belief systems.
I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say. The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam, complete with a video. After the presentations, time was provided for questions and answers.
When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and asked:
"Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the world. And, that by killing an infidel, which is a command to all Muslims, they are assured of a place in heaven. If that's the case, can you give me the definition of an infidel?"
There was no disagreement with my statements and, without hesitation, he replied, "Non-believers!" I responded, "So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can go to Heaven. Is that correct?"
The expression on his face changed from one of authority and command to that of a little boy who had just gotten caught with his hand in the cookie jar. He sheepishly replied, "Yes."
I then stated, "Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine Pope John Paul commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith or Dr. Stanley ordering Protestants to do the same in order to go to Heaven!"
The Imam was speechless.
I continued, "I also have a problem with being your friend when you and your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me.
Let me ask you a question. Would you rather have your Allah who tells you to kill me in order to go to Heaven or my Jesus who tells me to love you because I am going to Heaven and He wants you to be with me?"
You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam hung his head in shame.
Needless to say, the organizers and/or promoters of the 'Diversification' training seminar were not happy with Rick's way of dealing with the Islamic Imam and exposing the truth about the Muslim's beliefs.
I think everyone in the US should be required to read this, but with the liberal justice system, liberal media, and the ACLU, there is no way this will be widely publicized.
Please pass this on to all your e-mail contacts. This is a true story and the author, Rick Mathes, is a well known leader in prison ministry.
Send this information to all your friends in emails and letters. Post this information on your web site and on news services. Post the free creation v. evolution animations and any of the other free animations on your web sites or send them in emails.
Dear Joseph,
Greetings in the Spirit of our Lord!
This article is an exact reporting of a real event I participated in.
Regarding the snopes "false" report:
1. Mr. Kniest was not at the training session to know what did or did not occur. And what would you expect him to say for fear of Muslim retribution.
2. The official that said this conversation did not happen remains "unnamed" and why doesn't someone ask the dozen or so volunteers about it. They heard every word.
3. The inmate was introduced as the Muslim Imam that was chosen by the fellow Muslims to lead them and chosen by the Department of Corrections to teach us. We had no reason to question it because there are Priests and Ministers in prison that do the same.
4. I prefaced my remarks with, "Please correct me if I am wrong," and he didn't.
5. When I said, "It is real hard to be your friend," everyone burst out laughing.
6. We felt sorry for him and I gave him a hand sign and said, "Salaam" and he did the same back to me with a smile.
I asked questions and recorded the answers or lack thereof. Socrates did the same but I am not into drinking hemlock.
The false report issued by Snopes does not question my reporting but my major premise and they base it on the word of Muslims clerics that can't even agree on what a "jihad" is.
The article is not the issue the issue is the issue:
Would you rather have an Allah who says to kill me to go to heaven or a Jesus who says for me to love you because I am going to heaven and He would like you to be with me?
Isn't it interesting that NO ONE has commented on the issue. They would rather destroy the messenger and ignore the message.
I hope this clears up things for you.
Press On! Rick Mathes
****************************************************
Dear Rick Mathes
Don't worry I am aware of how liberal Snopes is. In fact I'm aware of how liberal most internet search engines ie google are as well. We are fighting a massive disinformation program from the left. They are losing their control over the mainstream media but are trying to keep control over information disseminated over the internet. The United States is fighting a real hot war against Islamo-facists for our very survival and unfortunately they are receiving aid and comfort by the left.Dont let the left stop you.
I believe you and I wil forward your email AS FACT to everyone in my address book.If there is anything I can do to help please let me know.God Bless you. Keep fighting the fight
This is old news.
BTTT
The $64,000 question. Did Rick maintain his state prison security clearance?
"This is old news."
"From Rick Mathes Sent Wednesday, July 20, 2005 7:15 am To Joseph Lobosco Cc Bcc Subject Re: Did this really happen?"
Yeah. Looks like it's about 2 hours old!
It's new to me.
So what we should do is release them. Is that what you are saying? :-D
Old news? Those who forget history are doomed.
And then there are many of us who read this for the first time. Give us a chance to learn something before being so dismissive of repetition. That's why they have history books that record important information.
Snopes is not only liberal, it does shoddy research.
I am personally aware that it's "debunking" of urban legends is inaccurate and agenda driven.
I like snopes.com. It is a great source for debunking a lot of the internet 'myths'. The creator even admits when she is wrong and corrects info. She provides links and stuff. Also, I don't think snopes is liberal or even anti-religious. (Or pro-religious, conservative, whatever). She just seems skeptical of everything.
The ACLU (that transmission belt to soviet Communist dictatorship ) got its start in prison. Baldwin was
converted to Communism under the watchful eyes of
prison gaurds. And it seems nothing has changed. Our
Prisons have long fomented radical groups intent upon
wreaking havoc upon the system that once imprisoned them.
What was a flowerbed for Communist agitators has evolved
into the latest seed bed of our destruction. My prayer is that the freakin' Muslim terrorists being now groomed in
American prisons will be less effective at decieving the
American people than their predecessors in Communistic ACLU
have been.
Including in my email.
Several times.
Good article, and good commentary following the article.
Thanks for posting.
Well I would agree to early release of such-- to be burried in pig guts and offal.That they might spend an eternity in the Gehenna they teach all men must visit while waiting Allah's pleasure.But to release such to prey upon the society they are inculcated by their religion of submission to want to kill--would be a crime in itself.
This is the same article posted and Freeped here last year.
The minister, the imam and the handshake
Posted by trashcanbred
On News/Activism 11/22/2004 9:22:06 AM PST · 8 replies · 336+ views
Radio Netherlands ^ | Nov 22, 2004 | Robert Chesal
Dutch Immigration and Integration Minister Rita Verdonk has told Muslim clerics in the Netherlands that they need to assimilate into Dutch society. The minister, a member of the liberal-conservative VVD party, delivered her message in person at the weekend when she attended a meeting with some 50 imams, saying that she wished to continue her dialogue with them next year, only then in the Dutch language. She also called for the creation of a course in the Netherlands to train new imams. However, it was just one aspect of her meeting with the Muslim clerics that grabbed most of the...
"ALLAH OR JESUS?"
- Jesus
You're probably just embarassed that some you really liked and bit on turned out to be nonsense; drives a lot of the hatred of Snopes.
If you look around the site you'll find them trashing Jane Fonda, etc; they're not nearly as biased as people claim they are.
You just happen to notice the conservative or religious oriented urban legends being debunked because you're being exposed to more of them in the first place.
The above text, circulating via email since September 2003, was written by Rick Mathes, executive director of Mission Gate Prison Ministry in Chesterfield, Missouri. In subsequent statements on the ministry's Website, Mathes affirmed that the incident took place exactly as described.
However, a different version of events was reported in an article by Greg Kearney of the Lee News Service, in which a spokesperson for the Missouri Department of Corrections, which sponsored the training session, stated that the "imam" Mathes refers to above was a prison inmate and ordinary Muslim, not a trained cleric, and that although the inmate did answer various questions about his faith to the best of his ability, the issues of jihad and violence against non-believers were neither raised nor discussed during the exchange.
It is therefore a case of Mathes' word against the prison official's. I have not been able to find public statements by anyone else in a position to confirm the facts.
As to the substance of the alleged debate whether or not it is a core tenet of Islam that believers must wage holy war against non-believers wherever they are found there is fierce disagreement on that issue even among acknowledged experts in Muslim culture and theology, so I will not attempt to defend one side or the other in this brief commentary.
http://www.breakthechain.org/exclusives/rickmathes.html
Rick Mathes told BreakTheChain.org that he will not provide further details because, in his words, "I fear retribution - I have a 20 year prison ministry to protect."
Third-party accounts of the events in question paint a significantly different picture than the one offered by Mathes. Tim Kniest, spokesman for the Missouri Department of Corrections, told the Lee news service that the training session in question was for prison volunteers and took place in a corrections facility in Fulton, MO. However, according to Kniest, prison officials' recollection of events that day differ from Mathes' in several aspects:
Religious leaders representing faiths followed by current inmates were invited to present.
The presenter on Islam was not an Imam, but rather a Muslim inmate who was pressed into presenting after no Imam could be arranged.
Prison officials confirm that the Muslim inmate was asked a few questions that he was unable to answer, but none along the lines of those suggested by Mr. Mathes.
I have poked around Mathes's website a little. I clicked on the New Age article, for example, just for fun, and his definition of the term is clearly quite overly broad, apparently for his own purposes. From just a little examination of his site, Mathes's credibility is questionable.
Now, I'm not a New Ager and I'm not a Muslim, nor do I deny that SOME Muslims believe it's their religious duty to kill all others, but when one is as overly broad as Mathes, it discredits his entire cause.
Not only an old old story ... yawn!
I disagree with a lot of what this guy says, but his response directed specifically at Mathes is on target:
http://www.travisswicegood.com/index.php/2005/01/16/my_response_to_rick_mathes
JESUS ping !!!
BTTT!
The minute I read snope's debunk of Russian miners digging to hell, I knew there had to be a left-wing liberal agenda underneith their research.
It may or may not be old news but it is relevant...
A couple hours ago, I was watching George the President on tv...As usual he was talking about his WOT...
When he made the statement that a few radical muzlims are terrorizing people and these few muzlims have distorted the meaning of the koran and are doing serious harm to the GREAT religion of Izlam, I had to walk away from the tv...
Pathetic...Pitiful...
Personally, I've seen this "shocking new revelation" come out on the Freerepublic more times than the NYT has 'discovered' Bush's National Guard record. Just the same, but it's good when someone like yourself goes to the trouble to respond so that the new guys can be let in on the joke.
I think that it does not matter if this is old news, for it needs to be told to those who have missed out. I have studied Islam, and I do believe that most who are not Muslim can understand this for is seems so inhumane, but this is for real. Muslims have actually come out of the Dark Ages like this with no respect for human life. It is hard for an outsider to understand how people living today and be such savages.
I studied Islam because I had a question that I wanted answered, and the question was "Why would anyone in their right mind believe in Islam?
Muslims have their beliefs all waiting for them if they have a Muslim father, that little baby has no choice but to be a Muslim, and then the Muslim countries enforce this and they have great penaltys for leaving Islam or denoucning Mohammed. Islam is not a system of free will, and Islam is a brain washing scheme from the cradle to the grave.
If we have been born free, we really need to thank God, over and over again. The God of the bible is not the god of Mohammed, the one who passes out 72 hooris for each man to have sex with , (perpetual virgins) in Mohammed's Paradise.
BTW, I agree that Islam is a cult and that it seems that more people are waking up to that fact than ever before. This is why the MSM is pushing the "peaceful Muslim" angle lately.
BTTT
If you're going to fix the problem, really fix the problem. If the recidivism rate is so high, then for all perps sentenced to 15 years or more, convert the sentence into a death penalty and get them away from us for good.
Our problem is not too many people in prison, it's that we coddle too many people in prison. Prison is not a rehabilitation facilty, it's a place where people are punished. It should be as unpleasant as possible.
I've never seen it before.
Curiouser and curiouser - people click on a thread and take the time to post - just to say it's old news and indicate they are bored by it.
How strange.
I hate to be the resident cynic ... but it's a "feel good", accomplish little or no good piece.
Nope, I was personally aware of and familiar with the UPS uniforms sold on Ebay urban legend and the resulting investigations when they occurred in Dec 02-Jan 03 months before it was an urban legend and they got around to investigating.
The first Snopes "debunking" article was wildly inaccurate and mostly quoted lies from ebay corporate.
It wasn't until after WorldNetDaily.com wrote an article on it in May 03 that they updated (July 03) to be more in line with actual facts.
They were so far off the mark on such a simple story that I realized that everything they wrote was now suspect.
Neither article discloses much, but in general I can tell you that Ebay corporate tells lies even when the truth is good news and that UPS corporate is upstanding, proactive and responsible, but they'll both deny everything ;-)
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Yes, I have read this before, but it was not only GREAT to read it again, but to also read Rick Mathes' "Did this really happen? " explanation about the "false" report by snopes. For those complaining about it being old news...why not just move on?
As to how accurate the account is...the bottom line is, prisoners are being converted to Islam in our prisons and they are becoming an even greater threat to our society then they were before they went in! It gives a whole new meaning to the word "rehabilitation.
Yes, the Koran does command its followers to kill the infidels...when provoked...and all it takes to be provoked is an imam saying so. Killing an infidel is also the ONE way they can guarantee entering Paradise, which is why so many are willing to kill themselves as they murder "infidels."
As for comparing Allah and Jesus?
Actually, the comparison should be between Jesus and Mohamed, and personally I see no comparison!
One teaches love, forgiveness, compassion,free will,and hope. He lived a perfect life and died for us offering Eternal Life to all who accept His gift.
The other teaches hate, vengeance,death, forced submission, spills others blood and in the end, its up to Allah if you get into Paradise...unless you die a martyr...then you are guaranteed entering Paradise!
Why is it so hard for people to comprehend that Islam is NOT a Religion of Peace?
"It's been all over for some time.
Including in my email.
Several times."
The new part is the email dated this morning from the guy involved saying it did happen and disputing snopes.com on the event.
The head DA in this rural county told me before he retired that the only thing that will reduce crime - especially the kind of crime in which people spend a couple or three years in prison - is eliminating prison sentences, and instituting public caning.
He was absolutely serious. Public pain and public shame. Over quickly, no bad association to learn how to be a worse criminal, no opportunity to convert to Islam, and cheap! Plus criminal wannabes can see it and re-think their life plans.
I don't even bother with snopes. A few years ago I read every book about Clinton and his evil partner in crime aka Hitlery that I could find. Then, just to see what snopes had to say, I checked a couple of things particularly about Hillary. (can't remember what they are now, but there were referenced, footnoted, and so on.)
Snopes denied the truth. They are liberal. They are not the absolute truth. You can google just as well as they can. And google isn't foolproof either.
I've had a problem with Snopes ever since I found out that they claimed that "Tarzan of the Apes" was Edgar Rice Burroughs first book.
I appreciate your first hand experience comments. Thanks for posting them.
If all murderers, rapists and child molesters were executed that would clear the decks some. Then the public caning could take care of a lot of them.
islam is nothing more than a C.O.D-P.R.O.P.* {Cult Of Death-Phony Religion Of Peace}
alla-uzza is satan
muhammad was a daemon-possessed liar, a syphilitically insane plagiarist of religions and philosophies, a goat-molesting paedophiliac false prophet, and warmonger.
All in all, he was a pretty normal arab, in other words...
A.A.C.
"Where's my Fatwa? I demand to see imam Cat Stevens now!"
Sounds like at least one state gets it. I've seen or heard of far too many prisons with hot running water, TV's weight equipment etc.
Prison should be a 4' x 7' box that the inmate stays in until his sentence is served. For violent criminals it should be a much smaller box that the criminals body is disposed of in.
I also like the one sheriff who dresses his inmates in pink and publicly humilates them. Shame is a powerful motivator
You can say our problem is not that we have too many people in prison, but the reality is that is a major problem for us. It is costing us an absolute fortune and there seems to be no end in sight to the prison population explosion.
Kill the violent ones and the problem goes away. Lots of space left over.
Maybe we do need to execute more folks
Most definately. Dead perps do not commit more crimes. Also serves as a powerful motivator if the perp KNOWS that if he uses a gun in commission of a crime that he'll be put to death. If he commits a violent crime (murder, assault, rape) he'll be put to death. If he molests a child he'll be put to death.
Another poster mentioned public caning. I'd be all for that too. One of our problems is that we've lost the concept of shame. Public humiliation and shaming is a good thing.
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