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NYers to NYPD: 'I Do Not Consent to Being Searched'
The Village Voice ^ | July 21st, 200 | by Chisun Lee

Posted on 07/22/2005 11:06:07 AM PDT by BigFinn


Spend $16.99 so you can wear this to your grave

Reacting to the NYPD's announcement Thursday afternoon that police would randomly—but routinely—search the bags of commuters, one concerned New Yorker quickly created a way for civil libertarians to make their views black-and-white. In a few outraged moments, local immigrant rights activist Tony Lu designed t-shirts bearing the text, "i do not consent to being searched." The minimalist protest-wear can be purchased here, in various styles and sizes. (Lu will not get a cut. The shirts' manufacture, sale, and shipment, will be handled by the online retailer. Lu encourages budget-conscious New Yorkers to make their own and wear them everywhere.)

Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly had announced the legally obvious—that New Yorkers are free to decline a search and "turn around and leave." But Lu, who is a lawyer at Urban Justice Center, warned that even well-intentioned cops could interpret people's natural nervousness or anger as "reasonable suspicion." The possibility of unjustified interrogation and even arrest is real, Lu said.

Although police promised they would not engage in racial profiling, Lu said that, as with all street-level policing, people of color and poor immigrants would be particularly vulnerable, especially if encounters lead to arrests.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; Miscellaneous; US: New York; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: baaaaa; libertarianfools; nonprofiling; nothintohidehere; nyc; nypd; sheeple; stupidliberals; tshirt; villagevoiceisarag; wot
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To: CyberAnt

Riiiiiight. Searching 1 in 1000 people - and specifically but unofficially avoiding those most likely to either (a) sue for harrassment or (b) actually blow up the searcher - is unreasonable to believe will actually stop these perps. Blowing up on the train, or blowing up in the security line, are going to both garner approximately the same results during rush hour.

I don't understand why anyone believes these empty gestures of "security" actually work, nor do I understand why a growing number of "conservatives" are supporting Communistic methodologies.

The chances of being killed by terrorists while commutting are significantly less than the chance of being killed a host of other ways on the same commute. The only difference is that terrorist attacks are so rare they actually make the news - unlike other commuter fatalities - yet it's the far-less-likely occurrence that people are scared of.

Review your statistics textbook and stay out of my backpack.


401 posted on 07/22/2005 1:05:57 PM PDT by ctdonath2
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To: LifeOrGoods?

And .. you have documented evidence that 65 yr old white guys are being stopped. So far, I haven't seen anybody on TV being searched that resembles that description.

I believe the cops are "profiling" .. just not being obvious about it. And .. I would trust the gut feelings of a cop any day.


402 posted on 07/22/2005 1:06:15 PM PDT by The Final Harvest (President Bush: "America is the greatest nation on the face of the earth")
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To: ArrogantBustard

5,000 is way to high an estimate. Figure NYC has about 50,000 homeless -- you can't tell me that 1 in 10 are mole people. It's gotta be something like 2,500, at most.


403 posted on 07/22/2005 1:06:25 PM PDT by durasell (Friends are so alarming, My lover's never charming...)
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To: RedRover
I've seen the error of my ways and will "off a pig" on my way home from work. Perhaps then you'll respect me.

I'll respect you when you a) grow a pair and b) stop resorting to hyperbole.

Especially since, in everything I've posted, I've railed against the politicos & not the cops who unfortunately have to enforce this BS. This distinction is apparently lost on you.

404 posted on 07/22/2005 1:07:56 PM PDT by gdani (While terrorists are busy planning the *next* attacks we work to prevent their *previous* attacks)
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To: CyberAnt

I've seen it for myself in Penn Station. NYPD are definately profiling.


405 posted on 07/22/2005 1:08:11 PM PDT by cyborg (http://mentalmumblings.blogspot.com/)
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To: the Deejay
Well I, (for one), have never/will never have anything sinister to hide from LE or airport security.

I never said it has to be "sinister", but I have lots of things that I don't want people to see. That's why I use envelopes, close my blinds at night, and used brick instead of glass to construct my house. I also carry bags that aren't made of see-through plastic.

I've spent a lot of time over the last 20-odd years going through airport security in many countries. Never had a problem or resented it.

Well, that's private property. I think it's a pain, but I put up with it when I have to. But, it's against the constitution to search people at random on public property. At least it used to be. At some point in history. I happen to like the Bill of Rights. Don't you?

406 posted on 07/22/2005 1:08:49 PM PDT by Stu Cohen (Press '1' for English)
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To: cyborg

...and I saw one guy peforming a very thorough search of another guy on the A train late one night. I didn't know they did cavity searches like that!


407 posted on 07/22/2005 1:09:43 PM PDT by durasell (Friends are so alarming, My lover's never charming...)
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To: durasell

Are you sure that they weren't on a date? :o)


408 posted on 07/22/2005 1:10:37 PM PDT by cyborg (http://mentalmumblings.blogspot.com/)
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To: durasell

TMI


409 posted on 07/22/2005 1:11:14 PM PDT by null and void (It's a bad day for Lord 'Mo'domort's Death Eaters...)
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To: cyborg

Ouch!


410 posted on 07/22/2005 1:11:27 PM PDT by durasell (Friends are so alarming, My lover's never charming...)
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To: SandyInSeattle

Thanks.


411 posted on 07/22/2005 1:11:29 PM PDT by Black Tooth
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To: gdani

All of my responses on this thread have been in context of the original post. This thread is about Tony Lu and his faggoty @$$ t-shirt.
The only purpose for wearing this t-shirt is to thwart law enforcement and get in the faces of cops.
Tony Lu is an activist for illegal immigrants. He receives grants from George Soros for his work with "domestic workers".
Cooperating with law enforcement does not mean that I like Bloomberg or his policies--especially regarding illegal aliens.


412 posted on 07/22/2005 1:13:09 PM PDT by RedRover
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To: cyborg

Thank you!! I was hoping they were!


413 posted on 07/22/2005 1:13:16 PM PDT by The Final Harvest (President Bush: "America is the greatest nation on the face of the earth")
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To: Black Tooth

Personally? I'd like a 20-foot electrified fence with machine gun turrets every fifty feet or so along the Mexican border.

But that's just me. :-)


414 posted on 07/22/2005 1:13:22 PM PDT by SandyInSeattle (Official RKBA Landscaper and Arborist, Duchess of Green Leafy Things)
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To: durasell
That sounds like a very unreasonable search ... suspect that the searchee was consenting, though.
415 posted on 07/22/2005 1:15:59 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: oceanview

I don't know where you live, but in most places no such indemnification exists.


416 posted on 07/22/2005 1:16:02 PM PDT by flada (Y2K? What are you selling, chicken or sex jelly?)
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To: Stu Cohen

I totally agree.

I really would like for travel to
be like it used to! Walk into an
airport, walk out onto the tarmack
and get on the plane.

But we can no longer do that. Maybe
in a hundred years from now it will
be like that again. IF they can get
the terrorists under control. Who
knows? Maybe in a hundred years,
they will have done so. And people
at that time will say things like,
"Remember when everyone was searched
before getting on planes, subways,
etc."

I hope it will happen for the sake of
mine & everyones descendants.


417 posted on 07/22/2005 1:16:48 PM PDT by the Deejay (THE LADY DEEJAY)
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To: ArrogantBustard

I refuse to crack wise to that comment, mostly because I'm terrified of what cyborg will respond.


418 posted on 07/22/2005 1:17:01 PM PDT by durasell (Friends are so alarming, My lover's never charming...)
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To: Restorer
Cost for a trained dog starts at about $20k. And they have to be trained just about every day by an expert handler...

$20K would be an excellent investment if it stopped one bomber intent on blowing up a subway car.

In strictly monetary terms, the U.S. Gov. considers the life of one person @ $250K. The ave. deaths /subway bomb in London was 15. That's $3.75 million per., not including material damage, general psychological damage and economic damage, locally and nationally. Then there is the emotional damage to survivors and friends.

So, investing several million in a bunch of smart doggies would be an wise decision. Pitbulls excluded.

419 posted on 07/22/2005 1:19:23 PM PDT by muleskinner
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To: Alberta's Child

These searches are by New York City police. Not by a federal police force.


420 posted on 07/22/2005 1:19:29 PM PDT by RedRover
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To: SandyInSeattle
No, I'm saying the person wearing the
T-Shirt is inviting a confrontation,
and that's never very smart.

Really, inviting a confrontation is never
very smart. Well, I'm all for the T-Shirts and these
searches are missing the point.

These men below invited confrontation and would deport Islam
in a New York City Minute and then the problem is solved.


421 posted on 07/22/2005 1:20:10 PM PDT by Major_Risktaker
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To: durasell; cyborg
Let it rip.

Cy's about to become a respectable married woman; give her a chance to have some fun while she can.

422 posted on 07/22/2005 1:20:19 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: kellynla
have a problem opening your bags to the cops before getting on the subway you can walk...there's the stairs!

Yep, walk right on down one block to the next subway station where you probably won't be randomly selected. Great deterrent.

423 posted on 07/22/2005 1:21:03 PM PDT by flada (Y2K? What are you selling, chicken or sex jelly?)
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To: ArrogantBustard; durasell

LOL!!! You crazy guys :o)


424 posted on 07/22/2005 1:21:10 PM PDT by cyborg (http://mentalmumblings.blogspot.com/)
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To: Stu Cohen
Been law-huntin'. Check this out:
425 posted on 07/22/2005 1:21:14 PM PDT by George Smiley (This tagline deliberately targeted journalists.)
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To: ArrogantBustard

I would say that the search was being conducted with the utmost enthusiasm.


426 posted on 07/22/2005 1:21:44 PM PDT by durasell (Friends are so alarming, My lover's never charming...)
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To: Stu Cohen
Airlines are private, subways are public.

But AIRPORTS are public.

And you get searched in the public airport, not on the private airplane.

427 posted on 07/22/2005 1:22:41 PM PDT by George Smiley (This tagline deliberately targeted journalists.)
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To: Major_Risktaker

How is wearing a t-shirt like that and defying the police a good thing?


428 posted on 07/22/2005 1:22:45 PM PDT by RedRover
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To: RedRover

Some chicks love a rebel. A t-shirt like that might help you pick up chicks...


429 posted on 07/22/2005 1:23:51 PM PDT by durasell (Friends are so alarming, My lover's never charming...)
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To: Common Tator; All
I suggest the New York cops use the British system. Shoot five shots into the head of anyone who refuses to halt and be searched.

That would solve it nicely.

Common sense arrives to the forum.

As a friend of mine says, or perhaps it's just me in my non-on-line alter-ego:

One swift kick in the ass is worth more than one thousand gentle wipes of the ass.

430 posted on 07/22/2005 1:23:57 PM PDT by olde north church (Mithra, the ORIGINAL Son sent to Earth for the salvation of man.)
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To: Alberta's Child
Actually, you have a point.

Professional police forces didn't crop up until around the mid-Nineteenth century.

Before that, it was like the joke about the town too small to have a regular town drunk-- so we all took turns.

431 posted on 07/22/2005 1:25:06 PM PDT by George Smiley (This tagline deliberately targeted journalists.)
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To: BigFinn

What do you expect from a free weekly newspaper that has the most outrageous classified section in the world?


432 posted on 07/22/2005 1:25:46 PM PDT by finnman69 (cum puella incedit minore medio corpore sub quo manifestus globus, inflammare animos)
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To: SandyInSeattle
THEY'RE ALREADY HERE...

And that is the excuse put forth to shanghai our liberties.

We are not the problem. They are.

INTERN and DEPORT !!!

433 posted on 07/22/2005 1:26:24 PM PDT by Freebird Forever (abolish islam)
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To: George Smiley
And you get searched in the public airport

I don't. Unless I am preparing to board a private plane.

I go to the airport all the time without going through security. They even have a decent resturant there. I don't get searched unless I have a boarding pass and am proceeding to a gate. The gates are private property, leased by the individual airlines.

434 posted on 07/22/2005 1:26:26 PM PDT by Stu Cohen (Press '1' for English)
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To: durasell

Do I dare ask what implement was being used to conduct the search?


435 posted on 07/22/2005 1:26:47 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: Stu Cohen
You're not searched at the gates, either.

Try again.

436 posted on 07/22/2005 1:28:22 PM PDT by George Smiley (This tagline deliberately targeted journalists.)
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To: Freebird Forever
And that is the excuse put forth to shanghai our liberties.

Not an excuse, FRiend. A fact.

437 posted on 07/22/2005 1:29:13 PM PDT by SandyInSeattle (Official RKBA Landscaper and Arborist, Duchess of Green Leafy Things)
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To: ArrogantBustard

Actually, the funniest part of the story was the old chinese guy sitting at the far end of the car. He didn't show anything. Just sat there passively with his ag of groceries. When I got off the car at the next stop and moved to the car in front, one of the guys in that car said, "You were the the looove shack."


438 posted on 07/22/2005 1:29:52 PM PDT by durasell (Friends are so alarming, My lover's never charming...)
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To: Sonny M

Took the subway twice. No bag stop.

I did notice people looking around and checking out each other more closely than usual.

Im gonna get a t-shirt for the Subway that says
"I consent to shooting terrorists dead on sight"


439 posted on 07/22/2005 1:31:24 PM PDT by finnman69 (cum puella incedit minore medio corpore sub quo manifestus globus, inflammare animos)
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To: George Smiley
You're not searched at the gates, either.

Every time I have flown, I have been searched at the entrance to the airport gates (the area where only those with boarding passes can enter), not upon entering the airport itself. Maybe you act suspicious. *shrug*

Try again.

Every time I have flown, I have been searched at the entrance to the airport gates (the area where only those with boarding passes can enter), not upon entering the airport itself. Maybe you act suspicious. *shrug*

440 posted on 07/22/2005 1:33:47 PM PDT by Stu Cohen (Press '1' for English)
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To: finnman69

Back in the 1980s there was a brooklyn lawyer who used to have a card that when you turned it over it read something like:

Yes, a understand my rights.
I do not wish to make a statement at this time.
I would like a lawyer present during all questioning.


441 posted on 07/22/2005 1:33:47 PM PDT by durasell (Friends are so alarming, My lover's never charming...)
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To: Stu Cohen
I think you're (mis)interpreting the fact that the subway is a "public accommodation" to mean that you have an absolute right to use it. (Airplanes are "public accommodations", too, by the way.)

Go back and have a look at the .pdf I linked to as (from my brief scan of the TOC) it appears to discuss case law with respect to transportation-related issues.

I may look at it tonight if my wife and kids don't have too much loaded on my plate.

442 posted on 07/22/2005 1:34:28 PM PDT by George Smiley (This tagline deliberately targeted journalists.)
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To: durasell

I think I need a little more than a t-shirt! But thanks for the suggestion!


443 posted on 07/22/2005 1:35:35 PM PDT by RedRover
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To: George Smiley
I think you're (mis)interpreting the fact that the subway is a "public accommodation" to mean that you have an absolute right to use it. (Airplanes are "public accommodations", too, by the way.)

Subways are public accomodations in the same sense as a sidewalk is a public accomodation. An airplane is a public accomodation in the same sense as a resturant is a public accomodation.

Go back and have a look at the .pdf I linked to as (from my brief scan of the TOC) it appears to discuss case law with respect to transportation-related issues.

I'll check it out.

444 posted on 07/22/2005 1:36:18 PM PDT by Stu Cohen (Press '1' for English)
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To: Sandy

bump


445 posted on 07/22/2005 1:37:25 PM PDT by lainie
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To: RedRover

I understand that, but there was no "NYPD" in 1789, either.


446 posted on 07/22/2005 1:39:19 PM PDT by Alberta's Child (I ain't got a dime, but what I got is mine. I ain't rich, but Lord I'm free.)
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To: SandyInSeattle
Not an excuse, FRiend. A fact.

You're certainly free to believe that.

But the main reason that ideological profiling, internment and deportation are not the order of the day is that then the excuse would be gone and the totalitarian policies would be seen for what they really are.

447 posted on 07/22/2005 1:39:23 PM PDT by Freebird Forever (abolish islam)
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To: Stu Cohen
Good to have an honest disagreement.

And my real feelings about how it would be In * An * Ideal * World were described in one of L. Neil Smith's novels:

The protagonists were preparing to board a flying device of some sort and the only screening to which they were subjected was to be asked if they'd remembered to load their weapons with frangible ammunition before boarding the aircraft.

448 posted on 07/22/2005 1:39:46 PM PDT by George Smiley (This tagline deliberately targeted journalists.)
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To: BigFinn

"'I Do Not Consent to Being Searched'"

Then you die.

Profiling: it works, not just for law enforcement, but for the people on the street, as well.


449 posted on 07/22/2005 1:40:02 PM PDT by TAquinas (Demographics has consequences: Tom Tancredo for President 2008/2012.)
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To: Alberta's Child

Couldn't say about the dates. But rights not specified in the Constitution are reserved by the states.
It seems to me that this a municipal issue.


450 posted on 07/22/2005 1:42:22 PM PDT by RedRover
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