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Frightening Quotes from Environmentalists
pushback dot com ^ | 7-2005

Posted on 07/24/2005 12:37:25 AM PDT by doug from upland

Frightening Quotes from Environmentalists (Attack Of The Socialist-Luddites)

The right to have children should be a marketable commodity, bought and traded by individuals but absolutely limited by the state.

—Kenneth Boulding, originator of the “Spaceship Earth” concept (as quoted by William Tucker in Progress and Privilege, 1982)

We have wished, we ecofreaks, for a disaster or for a social change to come and bomb us into Stone Age, where we might live like Indians in our valley, with our localism, our appropriate technology, our gardens, our homemade religion—guilt-free at last!

—Stewart Brand (writing in the Whole Earth Catalogue).

Free Enterprise really means rich people get richer. They have the freedom to exploit and psychologically rape their fellow human beings in the process…. Capitalism is destroying the earth.

—Helen Caldicott, Union of Concerned Scientists

We must make this an insecure and inhospitable place for capitalists and their projects…. We must reclaim the roads and plowed land, halt dam construction, tear down existing dams, free shackled rivers and return to wilderness millions of tens of millions of acres of presently settled land.

—David Foreman, Earth First!

Everything we have developed over the last 100 years should be destroyed.

—Pentti Linkola

If you ask me, it’d be a little short of disastrous for us to discover a source of clean, cheap, abundant energy because of what we would do with it. We ought to be looking for energy sources that are adequate for our needs, but that won’t give us the excesses of concentrated energy with which we could do mischief to the earth or to each other.

—Amory Lovins in The Mother Earth–Plowboy Interview, Nov/Dec 1977, p.22

The only real good technology is no technology at all. Technology is taxation without representation, imposed by our elitist species (man) upon the rest of the natural world.

—John Shuttleworth

What we’ve got to do in energy conservation is try to ride the global warming issue. Even if the theory of global warming is wrong, to have approached global warming as if it is real means energy conservation, so we will be doing the right thing anyway in terms of economic policy and environmental policy.

—Timothy Wirth, former U.S. Senator (D-Colorado)

I suspect that eradicating smallpox was wrong. It played an important part in balancing ecosystems.

—John Davis, editor of Earth First! Journal

Human beings, as a species, have no more value than slugs.

—John Davis, editor of Earth First! Journal

The extinction of the human species may not only be inevitable but a good thing....This is not to say that the rise of human civilization is insignificant, but there is no way of showing that it will be much help to the world in the long run.

—Economist editorial

We advocate biodiversity for biodiversity’s sake. It may take our extinction to set things straight.

—David Foreman, Earth First!

Phasing out the human race will solve every problem on earth, social and environmental.

—Dave Forman, Founder of Earth First!

If radical environmentalists were to invent a disease to bring human populations back to sanity, it would probably be something like AIDS

—Earth First! Newsletter

Human happiness, and certainly human fecundity, is not as important as a wild and healthy planets…Some of us can only hope for the right virus to come along.

—David Graber, biologist, National Park Service

The collective needs of non-human species must take precedence over the needs and desires of humans.

—Dr. Reed F. Noss, The Wildlands Project

If I were reincarnated, I would wish to be returned to Earth as a killer virus to lower human population levels.

—Prince Phillip, World Wildlife Fund

Cannibalism is a “radical but realistic solution to the problem of overpopulation.”

—Lyall Watson, The Financial Times, 15 July 1995

Poverty For “Those People”

We, in the green movement, aspire to a cultural model in which killing a forest will be considered more contemptible and more criminal than the sale of 6-year-old children to Asian brothels.

—Carl Amery

Every time you turn on an electric light, you are making another brainless baby.

—Helen Caldicott, Union of Concerned Scientists

To feed a starving child is to exacerbate the world population problem.

—Lamont Cole

If there is going to be electricity, I would like it to be decentralized, small, solar-powered.

—Gar Smith, editor of the Earth Island Institute’s online magazine The Edge

The only hope for the world is to make sure there is not another United States: We can’t let other countries have the same number of cars, the amount of industrialization, we have in the U.S. We have to stop these Third World countries right where they are. And it is important to the rest of the world to make sure that they don’t suffer economically by virtue of our stopping them.

—Michael Oppenheimer, Environmental Defense Fund

The continued rapid cooling of the earth since WWII is in accord with the increase in global air pollution associated with industrialization, mechanization, urbanization and exploding population.

—Reid Bryson, “Global Ecology; Readings towards a rational strategy for Man”, (1971)

The battle to feed humanity is over. In the 1970s, the world will undergo famines. Hundreds of millions of people are going to starve to death in spite of any crash programs embarked upon now. Population control is the only answer.

—Paul Ehrlich, in The Population Bomb (1968)

I would take even money that England will not exist in the year 2000.

—Paul Ehrlich in (1969)

In ten years all important animal life in the sea will be extinct. Large areas of coastline will have to be evacuated because of the stench of dead fish.

—Paul Ehrlich, Earth Day (1970)

Before 1985, mankind will enter a genuine age of scarcity…in which the accessible supplies of many key minerals will be facing depletion.

—Paul Ehrlich in (1976)

This [cooling] trend will reduce agricultural productivity for the rest of the century.

—Peter Gwynne, Newsweek 1976

There are ominous signs that the earth’s weather patterns have begun to change dramatically and that these changes may portend a drastic decline in food production—with serious political implications for just about every nation on earth. The drop in food production could begin quite soon… The evidence in support of these predictions has now begun to accumulate so massively that meteorologist are hard-pressed to keep up with it.

—Newsweek, April 28, (1975)

This cooling has already killed hundreds of thousands of people. If it continues and no strong action is taken, it will cause world famine, world chaos and world war, and this could all come about before the year 2000.

—Lowell Ponte in “The Cooling”, 1976

If present trends continue, the world will be about four degrees colder for the global mean temperature in 1990, but eleven degrees colder by the year 2000. … This is about twice what it would take to put us in an ice age.

—Kenneth E.F. Watt on air pollution and global cooling, Earth Day (1970)


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: cartooncharacters; cary; ecofreaks; environentalists; envirowhackos; halfwits; insane; tinfoil; whackjobs
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1 posted on 07/24/2005 12:37:26 AM PDT by doug from upland
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Bookmarking

terrorists all


2 posted on 07/24/2005 12:41:14 AM PDT by RandallFlagg (Roll your own cigarettes! You'll save $$$ and smoke less!(Magnetic bumper stickers-click my name)
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To: doug from upland
Self-hating humans



Human beings, as a species, have no more value than slugs.
—John Davis, editor of Earth First! Journal

Somebody throw some salt on this guy, quick!

3 posted on 07/24/2005 12:44:27 AM PDT by nickcarraway (I'm Only Alive, Because a Judge Hasn't Ruled I Should Die...)
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To: doug from upland

Brilliant.


4 posted on 07/24/2005 12:47:41 AM PDT by Bon mots
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To: doug from upland
We have wished, we ecofreaks, for a disaster or for a social change to come and bomb us into Stone Age, where we might live like Indians in our valley, with our localism, our appropriate technology, our gardens, our homemade religion—guilt-free at last!
—Stewart Brand (writing in the Whole Earth Catalogue).

Heh...Till the rest of us come in there and take it away. Cuz we all know you clowns don't own guns.

5 posted on 07/24/2005 12:48:57 AM PDT by konaice
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To: doug from upland

We should kill these people first. Then the islamofacists.


6 posted on 07/24/2005 12:55:43 AM PDT by jocon307 (Can we close the border NOW?)
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To: Bon mots
Every person who is enjoying this wonderful post should, if they have not already, read Tom Clancy's "Rainbow Six" and Michael Crichton's "State of Feat." Without giving anything away, both books have absolutely deliciously just fates for such environmental wankers. The kind of thing where you reread the paragraphs in order to savor the utter satisfaction of justice!
7 posted on 07/24/2005 12:57:17 AM PDT by Finny (God continue to Bless President G.W. Bush with wisdom, popularity, safety and success.)
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To: doug from upland
We have wished, we ecofreaks, for a disaster or for a social change to come and bomb us into Stone Age, where we might live like Indians in our valley, with our localism, our appropriate technology, our gardens, our homemade religion—guilt-free at last!
—Stewart Brand (writing in the Whole Earth Catalogue).

Ugh. White Man talk heap funny.

8 posted on 07/24/2005 12:57:58 AM PDT by martin_fierro (ˇMÁS TIMBALES!)
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To: Finny

Make that Michael Crichton's "State of Fear." *sigh* God, what a GREAT ending for certain characters, like Martin Sheen, I kid you not!!! I replay it in my mind now and then just for some warm and fuzzies. Crichton is a god.


9 posted on 07/24/2005 12:59:57 AM PDT by Finny (God continue to Bless President G.W. Bush with wisdom, popularity, safety and success.)
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To: doug from upland

I guess these people will be celebrating when a real strong flu strain comes along. Why don't they just ease the burden on the Earth and do themselves in right now?!?


10 posted on 07/24/2005 1:07:19 AM PDT by beaversmom
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To: Finny; doug from upland; All
Every person who is enjoying this wonderful post should, if they have not already, read Tom Clancy's "Rainbow Six" and Michael Crichton's "State of Fear...absolutely deliciously just fates for such environmental wankers."

...not to mention "Fallen Angels..."

11 posted on 07/24/2005 1:32:44 AM PDT by backhoe (Just an old Cold Warrior, draggin' his BAR into the Sunset...)
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To: doug from upland

I sometimes wondered if these types were nuts. Now I don't have to wonder anymore.


12 posted on 07/24/2005 1:59:56 AM PDT by Bahbah (Something wicked this way comes)
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To: Bahbah
Nuts, yes, but particular kind of nuts. They are people who have never been hungry, never done any hard physical work, never been seriously cold with no easy out -- who have never, in fact, considered nature as anything other than a toy, however much they may profess to worship it. Clueless.

All of them are loons, but I had to laugh especially at the one who wanted to live like the Indians. The fact that most Indians lived in constant warfare and probably died by violence would doubtlessly come as a complete surprise ....

13 posted on 07/24/2005 2:52:00 AM PDT by sphinx
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To: sphinx

What is sad is the fact that the Libs and Dems have hijacked the Enviro. agenda when in reality it was a Conservative movement...


14 posted on 07/24/2005 2:55:47 AM PDT by Skeeve14 (1980's RR-Communism Evil Empire 2000's GWB-Communism good for Business)
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To: doug from upland

Our own modern day Khmer Rouge. Kill most everyone, return the rest to a stone age existence, and of course the environmentalists will be in charge. It's always that way with leftists.


15 posted on 07/24/2005 2:59:12 AM PDT by Casloy
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To: doug from upland

Who is stopping these people from living in the wilderness without conveniences? Why, I wholeheartedly support their ceasing and desisting from using up valuable resources that the rest of us appreciate.


16 posted on 07/24/2005 3:06:23 AM PDT by skr (Almighty God, thank you for the liberty you have bestowed upon this nation.)
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To: doug from upland
I think the heart of totalitarian movements (including ecofascism) is a revolt against modernity. Both Communism and Naziism had the ideal of simple people living in tribes (once the state withers away or the "master race" kills everyone else) -- this is similar to what the ecofascists want. However, even the Nazis did not want to exterminate every person on earth (just almost everyone) so one can imagine that Hitler's nihilistic death factories are the only form of "technology" that some ecofascists would approve of.

The islamofascists want to return humanity to a primitive level of existence where people live in tribes and are under the strict control of tribal and religious rulers.

I think each ecofascist wants himself to be a tribal leader who will control everyone and the more ambitious ones fancy themselves as "revolutionaries" who will outdo Hitler and Stalin if only given the chance.

If the 20th century had conflicting systems of totalitarianism, the 21st century might see a fusion into one movement of Naziism, Communism, ecofascism and Islamofascism. This movement is by its nature unstable, but it might hold together long enough to wage war against the West (actually, the war has been going on for 30 years). Depending on whether you count the Cold War, we are already into the early stages of World War III or IV although it will take most people another 10 years to realize that is what is happening.

17 posted on 07/24/2005 3:08:01 AM PDT by Wilhelm Tell
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To: doug from upland
Do mankind a favor and beat the absolute snot out of an environmentalist today!

If you don't know what they've said or done that's so heinous, chances are they do.

18 posted on 07/24/2005 3:15:13 AM PDT by Caipirabob (Democrats.. Socialists..Commies..Traitors...Who can tell the difference?)
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To: doug from upland
Their very existence is an encroachment on mankind. They've been defying the natural order of things since birth (as evident by the wire hanger scars on their foreheads).
19 posted on 07/24/2005 3:25:02 AM PDT by Jaysun (Democrats are motivated mainly and perhaps almost wholly on envy.)
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To: Skeeve14
What is sad is the fact that the Libs and Dems have hijacked the Enviro. agenda when in reality it was a Conservative movement...

It was?
20 posted on 07/24/2005 3:27:07 AM PDT by Jaysun (Democrats are motivated mainly and perhaps almost wholly on envy.)
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To: Jaysun

Don't you think most hunters and fishermen are conservative?
We love the environment and don't want to see it destroyed..Things like Ducks Unlimited for example..TR first established the National Parks..Boy Scouts respect and love the environment..things like that..


21 posted on 07/24/2005 3:36:19 AM PDT by Skeeve14 (1980's RR-Communism Evil Empire 2000's GWB-Communism good for Business)
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To: Skeeve14
Don't you think most hunters and fishermen are conservative?

We love the environment and don't want to see it destroyed..Things like Ducks Unlimited for example..TR first established the National Parks..Boy Scouts respect and love the environment..things like that.


Okay, I see your point. I would think that most hunters and fishermen are conservative. TR was a damned tyrant in my book, but that's beside the point. I think we started going downhill as soon as Nixon shafted us with the EPA.
22 posted on 07/24/2005 3:44:44 AM PDT by Jaysun (Democrats are motivated mainly and perhaps almost wholly on envy.)
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To: jocon307
We should kill these people first.

Assisting in their returning to dust would be a poetic form of recycling. I can't see how they would disapprove.

23 posted on 07/24/2005 3:48:42 AM PDT by Freebird Forever (abolish islam)
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To: Freebird Forever

Arrest them and put them in a walled compound set up with all the conveniences of the 14th Century. Give them nothing at all but what they would have had in the 14th Century, and leave them alone.

That will make them happy and us happy and will be a useful experiment for historians -- and a nice lesson for the rest of them too.


24 posted on 07/24/2005 5:01:58 AM PDT by KateatRFM
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To: doug from upland
where we might live like Indians in our valley, with our localism, our appropriate technology...

Call me an enviro-nut but I could go for owning a casino and selling tax-free cigarettes.

25 posted on 07/24/2005 5:09:36 AM PDT by fat city (Julius Rosenberg's soviet code name was "Liberal")
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To: Finny
The kind of thing where you reread the paragraphs in order to savor the utter satisfaction of justice!

Yep! John Clark's stock went up quite a few points with me with his solution to the enviro-wackos at the end of "Rainbow Six."

26 posted on 07/24/2005 5:17:57 AM PDT by Future Snake Eater (The plan was simple, like my brother-in-law Phil. But unlike Phil, this plan just might work.)
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To: doug from upland

I suspect none of these people would survive for two weeks out in the bush. In fact, you could drop these savages into a remote valley filled with wild food, and these maggots wouldn't know what's good to eat unless they saw an apple on a stand with a label that says "organic."


27 posted on 07/24/2005 5:23:13 AM PDT by sergeantdave (Marxism has not only failed to promote human freedom, it has failed to produce food)
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To: Lil'freeper

Ugh


28 posted on 07/24/2005 5:30:58 AM PDT by big'ol_freeper ("Freedom consists not in doing what we like, but in having the right to do what we ought." Pope JPII)
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To: sergeantdave

After a few weeks in a "Stone Age", these bozos would be begging for some hunters to protect them from the wolves and big cats...


29 posted on 07/24/2005 5:31:40 AM PDT by LRS
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To: sphinx

"They are people who have never been hungry, never done any hard physical work, never been seriously cold..."

How right you are. I saw this first hand over 30 years ago when some spoiled rich kids bought a "farm" and formed a commune. Perhaps the greatest contradicition I had witnessed at that time was their dependence on Food Stamps - for which they qualified because they had small children and none of them worked.

When I was young, I enjoyed reading Thoreau, because he wrote of self-reliance. These folks never ever approached being self reliant when mom and dad were just a phone call away.


30 posted on 07/24/2005 5:32:23 AM PDT by wingman1 (University of Vietnam 1970. Forget? Hell.)
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To: doug from upland

Pretty frightening stuff here.


31 posted on 07/24/2005 5:40:12 AM PDT by Gritty ("Human beings, as a species, have no more value than slugs" - John Davis, Earth First!)
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To: doug from upland
Oh it was sooooooooooooo difficult, but I managed to trim my absolute favorites down to three:
"I suspect that eradicating smallpox was wrong. It played an important part in balancing ecosystems."

"The extinction of the human species may not only be inevitable but a good thing...."

"To feed a starving child is to exacerbate the world population problem."

Keep these people talking! In fact, give 'em megaphones.

Here's a good rule of thumb:

If the "environmentalists" are for it, oppose it. If they're against it, support it.

32 posted on 07/24/2005 5:55:35 AM PDT by Savage Beast (Love is the ultimate aphrodesiac!)
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To: doug from upland
Frightening Quotes from Environmentalists Anarchists
33 posted on 07/24/2005 5:58:27 AM PDT by Oldeconomybuyer (The democRATS are near the tipping point.)
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To: nickcarraway
"Human beings, as a species, have no more value than slugs."

Wrong! But you can see how somebody who associates only with people like these could come to this conclusion.

34 posted on 07/24/2005 6:06:06 AM PDT by Savage Beast (Love is the ultimate aphrodesiac!)
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To: doug from upland
We have wished, we ecofreaks, for a disaster or for a social change to come and bomb us into Stone Age, where we might live like Indians in our valley, with our localism, our appropriate technology, our gardens, our homemade religion—guilt-free at last!

I suspect that eradicating smallpox was wrong. It played an important part in balancing ecosystems.

The magnitude of the ever-present cognitive disconnect these people suffer stunes my beeber. Sheesh! Smallpox (and other diseases their immune systems were unprepared for) did a great deal to wipe out Indian populations...

35 posted on 07/24/2005 6:12:47 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (Grant no power to government you would not want your worst enemies to wield against you.)
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To: doug from upland
the human species has become a malignant process on the planet that is likely to result in the equivalent, for humans, of ecosystem death,

Warren Hern - abortionist

36 posted on 07/24/2005 6:13:20 AM PDT by mollynme (cogito, ergo freepum)
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To: sergeantdave

Agreed. In fact, they'd likely starve to death or poison themselves since I doubt that they would deign to kill any game for food, many of these freaks being vegetarians and unschooled in what you can eat and what you can't.


37 posted on 07/24/2005 6:16:15 AM PDT by Virginia Ridgerunner ("Si vis pacem para bellum")
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To: wingman1
some spoiled rich kids bought a "farm" and formed a commune.

I think the finest example of honest communal living is the Amish. They have managed to build up themselves a highly admired society which actually is societally productive. These people would never depend on food stamps, but they are not shy about hard work either. The key difference here is that they have a common belief in a transformative deity (Born Again) and a community committment to rejecting those who will not abide by their strict codes.

Even if the New ecofascist order could create something like this for a few brutal years, it would quickly be overturned. There's one thing that Communism, EcoFascism and Islamofascism have in common is that they all must have complete global control in order to function. There is no room for tolerance of any other philosophy or order. They all blame their failure on the success of other philosophies.

In contrast the Amish THRIVE in the community. They live with and trade with the community while living differently and apart from it. The Amish arent trying to save the world, they are focused on trying to save their own souls. Perhaps the EcoFascists could take a lesson.

38 posted on 07/24/2005 6:29:14 AM PDT by Samurai_Jack (ride out and confront the evil!)
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To: Samurai_Jack

"The Amish arent trying to save the world, they are focused on trying to save their own souls. Perhaps the EcoFascists could take a lesson."

This is a very good point. Environmentalists I have been acquainted with do not practice what they preach.

They scream "no war for oil", but drive cars that consume oil.

During the WTO demonstrations a few years ago, George Will wrote of how protestors travelled to Seattle by jet - a real departure from the early American pioneers they envision themselves as being.

While I admit to not knowing much about Amish life, and am not disregarding your point, one way of looking at the Amish is that even if they were out to change the world, the example they set is that changing the world always involves changing one's self first.


39 posted on 07/24/2005 6:58:28 AM PDT by wingman1 (University of Vietnam 1970. Forget? Hell.)
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To: doug from upland
The statements above are an impressive collection, supporting fully-justified self-hatred.

The earth's environment would be vastly improved is every one of these "experts" were fed to sharks.

40 posted on 07/24/2005 7:14:09 AM PDT by muir_redwoods (Free Sirhan Sirhan, after all, the bastard who killed Mary Jo Kopeckne is walking around free)
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To: Savage Beast
Here's a good rule of thumb:
If the "environmentalists" are for it, oppose it. If they're against it, support it.

Somebody on a mailing list I frequent posted his rules for dealing with environmentalists and their agendas, and said it's all about the shoes:

If they're barefoot, laugh at them.
If they're wearing boots, listen.
If they're wearing wingtips, shoot 'em and run.

Works for me.

41 posted on 07/24/2005 7:33:20 AM PDT by Foxfire4
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To: Foxfire4

I am sometimes barefoot and with suits I sometimes wear wingtips. Am I to be shot?


42 posted on 07/24/2005 7:45:57 AM PDT by doug from upland (The Hillary documentary is coming)
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To: doug from upland

Environmentalists need to be phased out. Quickly.


43 posted on 07/24/2005 7:50:12 AM PDT by antienvironmentalist
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To: doug from upland

This is a keeper!!

Thanks doug.


44 posted on 07/24/2005 7:53:59 AM PDT by aquila48
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To: doug from upland

>>The only real good technology is no technology at all. Technology is taxation without representation, imposed by our elitist species (man) upon the rest of the natural world.<<

Nothing annoys me more than someone criticizing technology while flicking their Bic...


45 posted on 07/24/2005 8:02:55 AM PDT by PhilipFreneau ("The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork." -- Psalms 19:1)
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To: doug from upland
Hmmmmm? ...................... The islam-a-nazies want to return to the 7th century but these eco-nazies want to return to the stone-age. No wonder they are fellow travelers. Samuel Butler foresaw this mindset over a hundred years ago when he published "Erewhon".
46 posted on 07/24/2005 8:15:21 AM PDT by fella (In law nothing is certain but the expense. - S. Butler)
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To: LRS

"After a few weeks in a "Stone Age", these bozos would be begging for some hunters to protect them from the wolves and big cats..."

Exactly! I was a member of the Seirra Club and Earth First for a time in the 80's. These people are really living in another reality. I left shortly after one of the leaders (a girl from New York city) started lecturing me (a guy from rural Tennessee) on how I shouldn't kill Copperheads hiding in the woodpile. This idiot walked around wearing sandals in an area infested with copperheads and rattlers. That's great if you don't have anything else to wear but give me a pair of high-top boots anyday.


47 posted on 07/24/2005 8:52:06 AM PDT by dljordan
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To: Foxfire4
If they're wearing wingtips, shoot 'em and run.

I'd change it to:

If they're wearing Birkenstocks, shoot 'em and run.

48 posted on 07/24/2005 9:19:18 AM PDT by Bernard Marx (Don't make the mistake of interpreting my Civility as Servility)
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To: backhoe

"Fallen Angels" -- a book I apparently would enjoy! Who wrote it? I haven't heard of it ...


49 posted on 07/24/2005 9:21:11 AM PDT by Finny (God continue to Bless President G.W. Bush with wisdom, popularity, safety and success.)
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To: dljordan
I love nature as much as the next guy, and don't mind if we "protect" some species and land. However, one of my sayings is "I'm glad my ancestors made it possible for my kids to wait at the bus stop in the morning and not have to worry about a saber tooth using them for a breakfast snack". Unbelievably, these wack jobs seem to be intent upon reversing this history.

I was watching a show a couple of weeks ago (pardon my memory, but I don't recall the name or channel; perhaps National Geographic Channel?), that was discussing the problem of big cats in 2 cities:one in India, and in LA. The LA part of the show concentrated upon the mountain lion attack upon a cyclist riding her trail bike in a wooded area. A couple of people came along just as the cat was dragging her away by her head. Unbelievably, the "helpful" solution these passersby came up with was to grab the woman's feet and try to pull her away from a full grown male cougar. Yeah, that didn't work too good. Finally it occurred to the guy, "Attack the cat!", which did work. For some reason, I started to suspect that the guy was a liberal.

For the Indian part of the show, these leopards were getting so bold, they would enter your house at night and drag away even a teen age boy for din din. Worrying about feral humans is bad enough. Do we really need to add big cats to our daily probs as well?

Ps- I let most snakes live. However, copperheads and rattlers are dead meat around me!

50 posted on 07/24/2005 9:25:14 AM PDT by LRS
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