Posted on 07/25/2005 1:51:07 PM PDT by areafiftyone
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In that time the 27-year-old electrician did not appear to realise that a team of 30 Scotland Yard officers were following his every move.
Police were already staking out the redbricked block of flats in Scotia Road after the address had been found in documents left in one of the abandoned rucksacks from the abortive attacks last Thursday.
There are eight separate flats in the block. When Mr Menezes emerged from the communal front door just after 9.30am, the police must have realised from the photographs they carried that he was not one of the four bombers. Even so they decided that he was “a likely candidate” to follow because of his demeanour and colour, so one group set off on foot after him.
As he waited at a nearby bus stop the reconnaissance team sought urgent instructions on whether to challenge him right away or let him board a bus. They were worried about the dark, bulky, padded jacket he had zipped up on such a muggy morning.
The decision was taken to let him go, in the hope that he might lead his shadows to at least one of the bombers.
The bus journey was slow, as on any other Friday morning, but Mr Menezes seemed to be in no hurry. He was heading to Willesden Green to fix an alarm system. When it was obvious that he was getting off at the stop nearest Stockwell Tube station, the team on the bus alerted a three-man team of marksmen to move in.
As Mr Menezes waited to cross the busy main road, the decision was taken at Scotland Yard that he must not be allowed to get to the platform.
The marksmen were told: if you think he has explosives under his coat and he fails to heed shouted warnings, then you must shoot to kill.
As the three plain-clothes officers closed in on Mr Menezes, they say that they screamed their first warning that they were armed police. Their version is that he turned, ran into the station concourse, vaulted the ticket barriers and reached a waiting train before they could catch him. They shot him five times in the head when they believed that he was trying to trigger a bomb.
His cousin, Alex Alves, claims in one account that Mr Menezes was “playing around with a friend in a game of chase outside the station”.
The police insist that he was alone during the entire journey.
Another family member said that he had recently been attacked and robbed in that area by a gang of young white men and thought the plain-clothes officers were muggers.
By far the most controversial claim comes from a number of witnesses who have cast doubt on police statements that they shouted a warning or identified themselves to the suspect before opening fire.
Lee Ruston, 32, who was on the platform, said that he did not hear any of the three shout “police” or anything like it. Mr Ruston, a construction company director, said that he saw two of the officers put on their blue baseball caps marked “police” but that the frightened electrician could not have seen that happen because he had his back to the officers and was running with his head down.
Mr Ruston remembers one of the Scotland Yard team screaming into a radio as they were running. Mr Ruston thought the man that they were chasing “looked Asian” as he tumbled on to a waiting Northern Line train.
Less than a minute later Mr Menezes was pinned to the floor of the carriage by two men while a third officer fired five shots into the base of his skull.
Again, Mr Ruston says that no verbal warning was given.
Sounds like it was his time to go.
How the heck would his cousin know anything that went on?
Too bad. But the police can't be faulted.
It's a simple concept, really. IF a POLICE OFFICER tells you to STOP. You do it!
This was a clear cut case of suicide by stupidity.
Gotta go get a raft to float down this river I'm cryin'
They had their orders and they obeyed them. That's it.
Had the man actually had a bomb he could detonate, these policeman would, in all probability be dead.
I would sure hate to have the job of sorting out who is and who is not a terrorist with a bomb strapped to them.
If two officers had him pinned to the floor then why the need to shoot him 5 times in the head?
Its a shame that the cops that shot him have their guns taken away and are on Desk Duty now.
He ceased to be "innocent" when he ran from the police
Uhh...yeah. That's it. A game.
Perhaps the gentileman, from Brasil where it is normally very hot, thought that 70 degrees F was a little nippy.
cant argue with that
Why would they get so close to someone who they thought had a bomb? Makes no sense.
Oh they are sueing. I read that in another paper. BIG TIME!
Terrorists have these things called "bomb vests" they can light off by pulling a trigger.
Moral of the story - don't continue to play chase when armed police shout, "Stop!"
Innocent of what?
However, already there has been more written about him than the sum total written about all the recent intentional victims of the "Religion of Peace".
It appears that there is no longer any limit to what the media will do to undermine any attempt by the West to defend itself.
It's not limited to Al Jazeera any more.
I guess they mean innocent of being a terrorist!
Oh the British papers are going to milk this for what it's worth.
It's a shame. But the man was an idiot. The police need to do their job and I hope they continue.
Police who are undercover in mufti need to go to extraordinary lengths to identify themselves as police when they make arrests, etc. There are too many thugs out there who are attacking individuals.
If two officers had him pinned to the floor then why the need to shoot him 5 times in the head?
The answer that comes to mind is there is no need to shoot, but rather a strong compulsion to shoot. This doesn't appear to be suicide by cop...rather murder by cop.
If no verbal warning was given, how did the Brazilian guy even know to run?
Then why were the police tackling him in the first place? Why not shoot from a distance? The police obviously believed that they could subdue the man. The article says that they had him pinned, which means that he couldn't move. And yet the third officer shoots him 5 times in the back of the head. Something doesn't seem right in all this.
That's a common post-incident procedure for law enforcement agencies here in the U.S., too - I would hesitate to view it as disciplinary action at this point.
How would he know? And really, what 27 year old electrician plays chase? I think my last game of chase was when I was around 10 or 11.
Perhaps the person in question may have been struggling at the time the officers were pinning him? Just a guess.
Another big win in the war on terror! And see? Not all terrorists are Muslim!
He's supposedly been in England 3 years. At that point, I'd have thought he'd made an adjustment to the temps. A jacket maybe if you are cold-blooded, a heavily padded coat is a bit odd.
ping
"It's a simple concept, really. IF a POLICE OFFICER tells you to STOP. You do it!"
Absolutely.
"This was a clear cut case of suicide by stupidity."
He was seen leaving a house under surveillance dressed in a heavy coat even though the temperature was in the 70s. He looked suspicious. The police followed him and saw him enter the Tube station at which point the police tried to stop him and he ran away from them.
Stupid! When the police told him to stop, he should have stopped.
you are so wrong, my friend. The cops pinned him first..they put their own lives on the line..they obviosuly thought his struggles were an attempt to reach a trigger..the head shots destroy the medulla..the center of involuntary movement..so that no twitches of a death throe could trigger ther bomb..what the cops did is the same as a soldier throwing himself on a grenade....and BTW..had he been a suiced bober, and had he detonated it, and killed 50+, because the cops did nothing..what would you and the reporters be saying today..
Well, yeah they can. They killed a fellow who appears to be completely innocent -- at least of any bombing ties. (I wouldn't be surprised if he had other skeletons in his closet.) Their mistake wasn't at the train, but in failing to do the proper legwork on all of the tenants of the building. They should have been able to recognize him as soon as he left the building.
Because they thought he might be wearing a BOMB???
Because if he was a Muslim dumb-bomb, he might still have been able to detonate himself, even pinned to the floor.
By this point the cops figured he had a bomb, and it all boils down to a matter of killing him before he can set it off. Brutal but apparently necessary.
As I noted above, the cops' failure can be traced to not knowing the tenants of the building.
"They had their orders and they obeyed them. That's it."
Exactly!
Nobody faults the police.
.and BTW..had he been a suiced bober, and had he detonated it, and killed 50+, because the cops did nothing..what would you and the reporters be saying today..
I'd say they were bloody stupid to have gotten that close to begin with....and after 15 years in law enforcement and serving in the Army I have never seen the holdem down and shootem take down technique taught or used by any law enforcement or military unit.
"The marksmen were told: if you think he has explosives under his coat and he fails to heed shouted warnings, then you must shoot to kill."
I for one am not buying this load of crap for one minute. But before I continue let me say this first.
I THINK THE POLICE OFFICERS WHO SHOT THIS MAN A BIG HERO'S IN MY BOOK. BELIEVING THIS MAN WAS ABOUT TO EXPLODE A BOMB TWO OFFICERS GRABBED HIM WHILE THE THIRD SHOT HIM TO DEATH.
HAD HE HAD A BOMB ALL COULD HAVE PERISHED!
THESE MEN ARE HERO'S!
I also think that this man was directed to go and run from the police dressed the way he was and to resist up to and including being shot to death.
My money is on he is a Muslim, and had contact with the same cleric that set up the raft trips for the bombers, or a least attended the same holy mosque (aka storage place for weapons and explosives to kill innocent people).
What's a shame is that the Brittish people allowed the government to take their guns away. How they ever managed to build an empire is beyond me.
"This doesn't appear to be suicide by cop...rather murder by cop."
The cops did an excellent job.
The guy was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Should have stayed in Brazil. Let this be a lesson to others.
sad as it is that an innocent man should die , the upside is that the message is now out there loud and clear that people that seek to perpetrate this stuff will be given no quarter.
And yes I agree that he absolutely brought it on himself by running ,and running straight on to a train. The worst move he could have made .
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