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He told me he was going to get 80 virgins'
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/story.jsp?story=654191 ^ | 7/27/05 | Terry Kirby

Posted on 07/27/2005 12:52:07 PM PDT by Lori675

They came to Britain seeking sanctuary from famine and war in east Africa, receiving assistance, education and help from the state. But yesterday, Yasin Hassan Omar and Muktar Said Ibrahim were the subject of a massive police hunt ­ suspected suicide bombers who attempted to cause carnage in the country they had made their home.

As police continued a fast-moving manhunt for the two men ­ along with two unknown accomplices ­ a contrasting picture of the pair emerged. Some friends said they were normal men who played football in the park every Sunday and, seemingly, both wanted to consider themselves part of British life. But another picture ­ of criminality, hardline Islamic beliefs and hostility to their adopted country ­ also emerged.

Said Ibrahim, 27, also known as Mohammed Said, arrived in Britain from Eritrea in 1992, aged 14, to join his family who had been in the country for two years. He was granted exceptional leave to remain and is believed to have lived with his family in Henselin Close in the Stanmore area on the northern outskirts of London and, until 1994, attended Canons High School in Edgware. He was granted British citizenship last September. Omar, 24, who arrived from Somalia in 1993 when he was 12, was granted indefinite leave to remain here.

Ibrahim appears to have had a chequered life. Reports emerged last night suggesting that he was convicted at the age of 17 for being part of a teenage gang which terrorised commuters at railway stations.

The gang was reportedly caught robbing at knifepoint in 1995, and Ibrahim is believed to have been sentenced to five years in jail in 1996, qualifying for early release in 1998. Reports last night suggested he had served time in Huntercombe Young Offenders Institution in Oxfordshire and a prison in Aylesbury.

The Home Office was unable to comment last night on how Ibrahim was able to obtain a British passport following his conviction and prison sentence.

His family said yesterday that he left home in 1994 and had not visited for " many months". In a statement, they said they were "shocked" by the naming of their son as a suspected bomber.

One neighbour, Anthony Nolan, 25, said: "[Said Ibrahim] just seemed so normal. I don't think there is any suicide-bomber look, but nevertheless he just seemed a friendly guy. I probably only ever saw him around here twice in the years they've lived here."

Other neighbours said that Said Ibrahim spoke Arabic and had been to Saudi Arabia in 2003, the same year that he applied to become a British citizen.

For some time, he had been living with Omar and two other unidentified men in a ninth-floor, one bedroom council flat in Curtis House on an estate in New Southgate in north London.

Omar had been placed in foster care by Enfield council after arriving in Britain without his family. He lived with his foster parents until the age of 18, before being housed in the borough when he was given indefinite leave to remain. It is not known how the two men met.

One local shop owner said Omar had tried to steal food and was "always looking for ways to make money". Another witness said Said Ibrahim could be regularly seen outside Arnos Grove Tube station, some four minutes walk from Curtis House, smoking marijuana.

Omar, the official tenant, was behind with the rent and may have faced eviction proceedings. His income support payments were stopped in June, although it is not clear why.

Said Ibrahim is believed to have recently moved out and been living in Hackney ­ although he returned regularly to Southgate. It was Hackney where the bus on which he was said to have left a bomb was bound, but the police and Hackney council were unable to provide details about where he might have lived.

At Curtis House, the two men joined others in regular trips to the park. Vance Noor, 18, who lives in an adjoining housing block, said: "The two guys would come out every Sunday. It was always around the same time ­ 4pm to 7pm. They were part of a group of about 11 Somalis who used to come out to play [football]. The two guys ran about loads, especially the tubby one [Ibrahim], who was a mad tackler. He always gave as good as he got on the pitch.

"They didn't have sports clothes ­ they wore jeans and T-shirts but they did have football boots. They just seemed to be normal guys. They were friendly but didn't talk much beyond that. We just knew them as regular guys. They weren't that good at football though."

There was another side to the men, who began holding prayer meetings in Curtis House. It is not known whether either man visited local mosques, but some reports linked Said Ibrahim with mosques in Finsbury Park and Brixton.

Kausor, 23, an Asian man who said the pair had recently persuaded him to become more devout, said: "They were devout Muslims. They prayed five times a day. We talked about Islam and current issues. We talked about the Ummah [Muslim brotherhood] and how it was being attacked."

Said Ibrahim was also reported to have grown a beard and to have begun wearing traditional dress. A neighbour of Ibrahim, Sarah Scott, age 23, who lives two doors down from the Stanmore home Ibrahim used to live with his parents, described a conversation they had last November. "We were standing outside our houses chatting. He asked me if I was religious and I said I did not believe in anything. He said I should. He told me he was going to get 80 virgins when he got to heaven if he praised Allah.

"He smiled and laughed as he said it, then he gave me this book about Islam and told me to read it.

"He was quite Westernised. The reason we got friendly was because we used to sit outside our parents' houses to smoke. I've known him since I was 11. When I saw the photograph of Said in the paper it all made sense.I remembered what he had said to me and I was terrified."

Miss Scott, a shop assistant, said Ibrahim had visited his parents' home two weeks ago. She said he had never mentioned jihad or terrorism, but gave her a pamphlet, Understanding Islam, with highlighted passages, one of which read: "Anyone who says 'there is no God except Allah' and dies holding to that will enter paradise."

Yesterday, the flat at Curtis House remained sealed off, suspected of being the "bomb factory" where the men made the devices that failed to explode last week. The search continued for its last occupants, captured on CCTV, about bomb the city that adopted them.

The immigration question

Tens of thousands of asylum-seekers fleeing turmoil in east Africa have arrived in Britain over the past decade.

About one third have been granted asylum after satisfying the Home Office that they face torture or persecution if they are sent home.

Another third have been allowed to stay on humanitarian grounds. Typically - and like Muktar Said Ibrahim and Yasin Hassan Omar, who came as dependants of adult relatives who claimed asylum - they have been granted exceptional leave to remain, usually for a period of four years.

They can then reapply for that permission or to be awarded the status of indefinite leave to remain, as Omar did.

Eventually the option of applying for British citizenship is open to refugees, providing they can satisfy the authorities that they speak good English and that they are of good character.

According to the Home Office, 43,225 Somalians, excluding dependants, applied for asylum between 1995 and 2003. About 16,000 were granted asylum and another 15,000 were given exceptional leave to remain.

Some 4,670 Eritreans applied for asylum over the period, with 1,125 awarded asylum or given permission to stay. However, failed asylum-seekers are not returned to the two countries because of unrest there. Much of Somalia is gripped by civil war, while reports of torture and repression have come from Eritrea.

Police and immigration officials are checking through the records of tens of thousands of asylum-seekers from east Africa in the 1990s in an attempt to identify associates of the bombers.


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; United Kingdom; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: islam; londonattacked; muktarsaidibrahim; radicalmuslims; suicidebombers; terrorism; uk; yasinhassanomar
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1 posted on 07/27/2005 12:52:08 PM PDT by Lori675
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To: Lori675
80 virgins? Are they getting so desperate for suicide bombers that they had to up the number of virgins in the afterlife?
2 posted on 07/27/2005 12:54:06 PM PDT by Celtjew Libertarian (Shake Hands with the Serpent: Poetry by Charles Lipsig aka Celtjew http://books.lulu.com/lipsig)
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To: Lori675

That idiot was so stupid and greedy he thought he was going to get an extra eight virgins.


3 posted on 07/27/2005 12:54:19 PM PDT by Andy from Beaverton (I only vote Republican to stop the Democrats)
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To: Lori675

Wait a minute! I thought it was 72 virgins.
Now there getting 80 virgins.
Where did the 8 extra virgins come from.


4 posted on 07/27/2005 12:54:25 PM PDT by Lori675
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To: Lori675

80 virgins? He ain't worth an old crone.


5 posted on 07/27/2005 12:54:54 PM PDT by brooklyn dave (I got rejected from "Mullah Omar's Eye for the Infidel Guy")
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To: Lori675

So, what's next? 90 virgins? Sounds like a "virgin bubble" is developing.


6 posted on 07/27/2005 12:54:59 PM PDT by RexBeach (Pardon me, but is that a malaise sandwich in your pocket or are you just glad to be in a funk?)
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To: Lori675

Compund Interest in a runaway Housing Boom/Bubble. Sooo, obviously its Bush's fault!


7 posted on 07/27/2005 12:56:03 PM PDT by Young Werther
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To: Lori675
He gets eighty of these
8 posted on 07/27/2005 12:56:12 PM PDT by pikachu (What if there were no more hypothetical questions?)
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To: RexBeach

Would the word inflation be too much here?


9 posted on 07/27/2005 12:57:20 PM PDT by Rhadaghast (Yeshua haMashiach hu Adonai Tsidkenu)
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To: Lori675
He told me he was going to get 80 virgins when he got to heaven if he praised Allah.

"He smiled and laughed as he said it, then he gave me this book about Islam and told me to read it.


80? I thought the old deal was 70-72? Maybe allah has special employee incentives only available during the summer. Numbers are for comparison purposes only. Your number of virgins may vary. Actual number of virgins will probably be less.
10 posted on 07/27/2005 12:57:39 PM PDT by F15Eagle
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To: Lori675

I have a serious question about all this ...

What exactly do dead Muslims do with the 72 virgins?


11 posted on 07/27/2005 12:58:08 PM PDT by dartuser (It is unbelievable what an unbeliever will believe to remain an unbeliever.)
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To: Lori675
If you were going to have 80 women in the afterlife, wouldn't you want just a few to know what to do?
12 posted on 07/27/2005 12:58:29 PM PDT by edpc
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To: Lori675

He saved up his Green Stamps.


13 posted on 07/27/2005 12:59:06 PM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks (Scratch a Liberal. Uncover a Fascist)
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To: Celtjew Libertarian
Are they getting so desperate for suicide bombers that they had to up the number of virgins in the afterlife?

Virginflation. They had to account for market forces.

14 posted on 07/27/2005 1:00:27 PM PDT by malakhi
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To: Lori675

I've never quite gotten the 70 or 80 virgins thing. I mean it would be nice to have each one for a week or two but were talking eternity here. Do you have to put up with all of them for the whole stretch, because if you do it's starting to sound a lot like HE** instead of heaven


15 posted on 07/27/2005 1:01:04 PM PDT by kublia khan (absolute war brings total victory)
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To: F15Eagle
Your number of virgins may vary. Actual number of virgins will probably be less.

Also remember....some settling may occur during shipment.

16 posted on 07/27/2005 1:01:21 PM PDT by edpc
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To: Lori675

Signing bonus.


17 posted on 07/27/2005 1:01:24 PM PDT by Dionysius (ACLU is the enemy)
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To: Lori675

I thought it was 72 virgins. And anyway, what if you get tired of virgins after the first dozen or so? And even if you don't, what do you do when you're done deflowering your share?


18 posted on 07/27/2005 1:01:27 PM PDT by Graymatter
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To: Lori675

"Where did the 8 extra virgins come from."

It's CRAZY ALLAH'S Liquidation Sale!!! Every virgin must go! No credit? No Problem! CRAZY ALLAH'S prices are just plain retarded! (like his followers).


19 posted on 07/27/2005 1:02:31 PM PDT by exile (Exile - Helen Thomas tried to lure me into her Gingerbread House.)
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To: dartuser

Afterlife orgy, I guess. They can also drink from rivers of non-alcoholic wine. Why mass fornication is permitted in paradise and not alcohol, I have no idea.


20 posted on 07/27/2005 1:02:42 PM PDT by A Ruckus of Dogs
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To: RexBeach

A virgin bubble!!!

LOL!


21 posted on 07/27/2005 1:04:26 PM PDT by nuffsenuff
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To: Lori675

Guess Ted Kennedy forced Mohammed to raise the minimum virgin amount....


22 posted on 07/27/2005 1:04:46 PM PDT by NRA1995 (West Virginia needs neurosurgeons like San Francisco needs gynecologists)
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To: A Ruckus of Dogs

So why don't we see polygamy in Islam if the ultimate completion of the faith is all these virgins in paradise?


23 posted on 07/27/2005 1:04:48 PM PDT by dartuser (It is unbelievable what an unbeliever will believe to remain an unbeliever.)
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To: Lori675
80 virgins...

The rates have gone up...

24 posted on 07/27/2005 1:05:18 PM PDT by mewzilla (Property must be secured or liberty cannot exist. John Adams)
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To: F15Eagle

lol.

If these animals were not so deadly, they would be right up there with Monthy Python.


25 posted on 07/27/2005 1:05:18 PM PDT by Eurotwit (WI)
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To: Lori675

Looks like more than 80. I dunno....I got bored and lost count.

26 posted on 07/27/2005 1:05:24 PM PDT by edpc
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To: Lori675

The unions forced them to up the going wage.


27 posted on 07/27/2005 1:05:42 PM PDT by Brilliant
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To: Lori675

Gee... what a "reward"... 80 women, none of whom know what they're doing in bed. Call me spoiled, I guess.


28 posted on 07/27/2005 1:06:45 PM PDT by pabianice
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To: exile

You guys crack me up here... :-)


29 posted on 07/27/2005 1:06:57 PM PDT by Eurotwit (WI)
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To: Lori675

You sure it wasn't 80 vegans? What with the accent and all, perhaps it sounded as if he said 80 virgins. His chance of getting either is about the same.


30 posted on 07/27/2005 1:07:27 PM PDT by OB1kNOb (...forgiving (terrorists) is God's function. Our job is to arrange the mtg.-N. Schwartzkopf)
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To: Lori675

80? Why settle for only 72? Hold out for 10% more...


31 posted on 07/27/2005 1:07:55 PM PDT by weegee (If HATE is not a family value, then CHILD ABUSE (i.e. abortion) is not a choice.)
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To: Celtjew Libertarian
80 virgins? Are they getting so desperate for suicide bombers that they had to up the number of virgins in the afterlife?

Virgin inflation?

32 posted on 07/27/2005 1:08:13 PM PDT by NeoCaveman (Are you now, or have you ever been a member of the Federalist Society?)
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To: RexBeach

Virgin inflation! Perhaps Greenspan could elaborate...


33 posted on 07/27/2005 1:08:43 PM PDT by COBOL2Java (Many Democrats are not weak Americans. But nearly all weak Americans are Democrats.)
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To: RexBeach
Sounds like a "virgin bubble" is developing.

Waaaa-hA-HA-hah-ha-ha-HAAA-ha-ha-ha-hah....

Man-o-Man-o-Man-o-MAN, do You ever have a Wicked sense of humour Hombre!

34 posted on 07/27/2005 1:09:07 PM PDT by ExcursionGuy84 ("I will Declare the Beauty of The LORD.")
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To: Lori675

Do you get the impression that Islamic men don't get enough sex? Why are they obsessed with this virgin stuff?

It just proves that if you deny sex to men, they go crazy.


35 posted on 07/27/2005 1:09:20 PM PDT by Brilliant
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To: Lori675

They claim to hold their woman in high regard yet fanticize about passing time in Paradise deflowering 80 virgins.


36 posted on 07/27/2005 1:10:01 PM PDT by IamConservative (The true character of a man is revealed in what he does when no one is looking.)
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To: Brilliant
Do you get the impression that Islamic men don't get enough sex? Why are they obsessed with this virgin stuff?

Well, the goat thing gets boring eventually...

37 posted on 07/27/2005 1:10:15 PM PDT by COBOL2Java (Many Democrats are not weak Americans. But nearly all weak Americans are Democrats.)
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To: A Ruckus of Dogs

"Why mass fornication is permitted in paradise and not alcohol, I have no idea."

I think it's actually some sort of purgatory. Imagine having all of those chicks around blathering nonstop about shoes and "The Gilmore Girls," and no beer. Paradise my bum.


38 posted on 07/27/2005 1:10:46 PM PDT by exile (Exile - Helen Thomas tried to lure me into her Gingerbread House.)
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To: RexBeach
So, what's next? 90 virgins? Sounds like a "virgin bubble" is developing.

It's only a matter of time before it pops.

39 posted on 07/27/2005 1:10:49 PM PDT by NeoCaveman (Are you now, or have you ever been a member of the Federalist Society?)
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To: Lori675

What - they are such special homicide bombers that they deserve the 11.11% increase in virgins? Is there an outcry amongst the families of those promised only 72? Murderous heathens.


40 posted on 07/27/2005 1:11:19 PM PDT by fortunecookie
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To: Lori675

"we used to sit outside our parents' houses to smoke."

Not a very good Muslim.


41 posted on 07/27/2005 1:12:00 PM PDT by Brilliant
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To: weegee

He must have hired Rosenhaus to get a better deal.

42 posted on 07/27/2005 1:12:01 PM PDT by edpc
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To: Lori675
We all know that it is 72 Virginians...
43 posted on 07/27/2005 1:12:16 PM PDT by mcg1969
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To: Brilliant
Do you get the impression that Islamic men don't get enough sex? Why are they obsessed with this virgin stuff?

It appears that the whole middle-eastern culture is overly obsessed with women's virture.

44 posted on 07/27/2005 1:13:13 PM PDT by A Ruckus of Dogs
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To: COBOL2Java

Yeah, I know what you mean. The goats just don't give as well as they take.


45 posted on 07/27/2005 1:13:18 PM PDT by Brilliant
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To: Lori675
Ibrahim appears to have had a chequered life. Reports emerged last night suggesting that he was convicted at the age of 17 for being part of a teenage gang which terrorised commuters at railway stations.

Impressive.

It takes so much courage to terrorize unarmed railway station commuters.

46 posted on 07/27/2005 1:13:29 PM PDT by pax_et_bonum
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To: edpc

What other religion promises that heaven will be a whorehouse? These guys wouldn't even know what to do with a woman anyway!


47 posted on 07/27/2005 1:13:58 PM PDT by Rummyfan
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To: edpc

"Show me the virgins!"


48 posted on 07/27/2005 1:13:59 PM PDT by newfreep
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To: Lori675

It's because they're in Britain... Like the Imperial Gallon versus the regular one.


49 posted on 07/27/2005 1:14:42 PM PDT by Tijeras_Slim (Now that taglines are cool, I refuse to have one.)
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To: A Ruckus of Dogs
Why mass fornication is permitted in paradise and not alcohol, I have no idea.

LOL!!!

50 posted on 07/27/2005 1:15:04 PM PDT by Rummyfan
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