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Shot Brazilian Had Phoney Visa, Says Home Office (UK)
The Times ^ | 7/28/2005 | Jenny Booth

Posted on 07/28/2005 11:52:49 AM PDT by Pyro7480

Shot Brazilian had phoney visa, says Home Office
By Jenny Booth, Times Online

The student visa of Jean Charles de Menezes expired more than two years before he was shot by police, a Home Office spokeswoman said tonight.

The Government also issued a cautiously-worded statement which appeared to indicate that Mr de Menezes had a forged stamp in his passport.

The spokeswoman said: "Mr de Menzes ... applied for leave to remain as a student. This was approved on October 31, 2002, and he was granted leave to remain until June 30, 2003.

"We have no record of any further application or correspondence from Mr de Menezes.

"We have seen a copy of Mr de Menezes’ passport containing a stamp apparently giving him indefinite leave to remain in the UK.

"On investigation, this stamp was not one that was in use by the Immigration and Nationality Directorate on the date given."

Mr de Menezes, 27, a Brazilian national who was working in London as an electrician, was shot dead as ran aboard a northbound Tube train at Stockwell station. Shocked witnesses spoke of the expression of complete panic on his face as police undercover officers, who had trailed from his home in Tulse Hill several miles away under the mistaken belief that he was a suicide bomber, held him down and shot him.

Last night his family accused the police of changing their account of the incident. At first Scotland Yard said that Mr de Menezes had been wearing a heavy jacket despite the warm weather, and had refused to respond to a police challenge, vaulting over the ticket barrier in an apparent attempt to escape.

But his cousin told a press conference yesterday that senior officers at Scotland Yard had now retracted their claims that Mr de Menezes was acting suspiciously, so that officers had no option but to open fire.

Vivien Figueiredo, 22, said police told her that he was wearing a lightweight denim jacket and not a bulky coat that could have hidden an explosive belt underneath. They had also admitted that he used his travelcard to gain access to the station. Ms Figueiredo said: "They are saying he did absolutely nothing wrong when he was killed, so why don’t they say all this publicly?"

Police shot the electrician seven times in the head and once in the shoulder at point-blank range. The family claims that Mr Menezes’s death forced Scotland Yard to change its shoot-to-kill orders. In yesterday’s arrest in Birmingham, the family pointed out that police used a Taser stun gun. Speaking shortly before leaving for Brazil to take Mr Menezes's body home for burial, they said that they wanted to know why a similar weapon was not used last Friday.

Ms Figueiredo also expressed anger at reports that one of the officers involved in the fatal shooting had gone on holiday with his family, paid for by the Metropolitan Police. She said: "It is not right that this person should now be enjoying his holiday when we are suffering."

Alex Pereira, 27, another cousin accompanying the coffin on the flight home, said: "The officer must be brought back and show the world he did something wrong". Senior officers emphasised that the independent investigation into the incident was continuing.

Tomorrow the Stop the War Coalition will hold a vigil marking one week since Mr Menezes’s death, at 1730 BST in Parliament Square. A service will be held at Westminster Cathedral at the same time as his funeral in Brazil.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events; United Kingdom; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: brazilian; illegalimmigrant; london; police; shooting; terror; terrorist
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No wonder he ran....
1 posted on 07/28/2005 11:52:52 AM PDT by Pyro7480
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To: Pyro7480

The police did what they had to do. No choice.


2 posted on 07/28/2005 11:54:07 AM PDT by Names Ash Housewares
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To: Pyro7480

I wonder why they didn't send silver A-10s after him.


3 posted on 07/28/2005 11:54:22 AM PDT by mike182d ("Let fly the white flag of war." - Zapp Brannigan)
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To: Pyro7480

Now that's what I call border control!


4 posted on 07/28/2005 11:54:35 AM PDT by tobyhill (The War on Terrorism is not for the weak.)
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To: Pyro7480
One question.

Was he a practicing Muslim?

5 posted on 07/28/2005 11:56:20 AM PDT by DCPatriot
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To: Pyro7480

Quelle surprise.

Bit by bit, the truth is going to come out on this guy.

The "cousin" who has emerged as his spokesman is probably in it for the money - but I suspect the unfortunate Mr. Menezes was also in it for the money. I'm sure the Brits are trying to find out where a marginally employed illegal immigrant managed to get relatively large quantities of money to send back to Brazil (a detail that appeared in an article in the first few days after the shooting).

The press is busy trying to sanitize him, and the relatives want the bucks (okay, the pounds).


6 posted on 07/28/2005 11:56:30 AM PDT by livius
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To: Pyro7480

All of the illegal aliens so far have expired Visa cards. None of them have Discover or MasterCharge, so it only makes sense . . .


7 posted on 07/28/2005 11:56:52 AM PDT by BipolarBob (Yes I backed over the vampire, but I swear I didn't see it in my rearview mirror.)
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To: Pyro7480

Check the family members - are they in GB legally ?


8 posted on 07/28/2005 11:57:06 AM PDT by cinives (On some planets what I do is considered normal.)
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To: Pyro7480
She said: "It is not right

A phrase in common use by illiterates and others who have not formed particular thoughts at the moment.

9 posted on 07/28/2005 11:57:45 AM PDT by RightWhale (Substance is essentially the relationship of accidents to itself)
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To: DCPatriot

Supposedly not. But some of the people involved in the Madrid bombings were not, either. They were Spaniards who were petty criminals or members of other terrorist groups (ETA), and supplied the materials and made some of the financial and logistical connections simply for money.


10 posted on 07/28/2005 11:58:19 AM PDT by livius
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To: Pyro7480

Blair and Straw have been reassuring everyone that he was in the country legally. I guess they aren't to be trusted.


11 posted on 07/28/2005 11:59:29 AM PDT by rimmont
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To: Pyro7480
Vivien Figueiredo, 22, said police told her that he was wearing a lightweight denim jacket and not a bulky coat that could have hidden an explosive belt underneath. They had also admitted that he used his travelcard to gain access to the station. Ms Figueiredo said: "They are saying he did absolutely nothing wrong when he was killed, so why don’t they say all this publicly?"

Non-police witnesses have told the press that he was wearing a heavy coat. Non-police witnesses have said that he hopped the turnstile.

12 posted on 07/28/2005 12:00:06 PM PDT by wideawake (God bless our brave troops and their Commander in Chief)
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To: Pyro7480
The family claims that Mr Menezes’s death forced Scotland Yard to change its shoot-to-kill orders. In yesterday’s arrest in Birmingham, the family pointed out that police used a Taser stun gun.

The Taser was used because he was not an immediate threat to blow himself up. That was not the case for Mr Menezes.

Mr Meneze probably didn't give up because of his illegal status in the country. You reap what you sow, I guess.

13 posted on 07/28/2005 12:00:15 PM PDT by w1andsodidwe (Jimmy Carter allowed radical Islam to get a foothold in Iran.)
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To: livius
Tomorrow the Stop the War Coalition will hold a vigil marking one week since Mr Menezes’s death, at 1730 BST in Parliament Square

The Left's at it again, politicizing someone's death. I guess they want the war against terrorists to completely stop so no one accidently dies. It will just cause more civilians to be intentionally killed by lunatics.

14 posted on 07/28/2005 12:00:29 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("All my own perception of beauty both in majesty and simplicity is founded upon Our Lady." - Tolkien)
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To: Pyro7480
Sending the British Police huge ATTA BOY'S.
15 posted on 07/28/2005 12:01:29 PM PDT by Dustbunny (The only good terrorist is a dead terrorist)
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this may explain why he was running from cops


16 posted on 07/28/2005 12:03:32 PM PDT by D-fendr
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To: Pyro7480
It will just cause more civilians to be intentionally killed by lunatics.

Death by terrorism = acceptable death

Death by police fighting terrorism = unacceptable death

Go figure. My mind doesn't work that way.

17 posted on 07/28/2005 12:04:17 PM PDT by w1andsodidwe (Jimmy Carter allowed radical Islam to get a foothold in Iran.)
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To: Pyro7480

No matter how you justify it, this sux, and it sucks badly. However, under the circumstances, the Police actions were understandable. It doesn't take much of any jacket to cover a bomb belt or bomb vest. This is just a sad, sad tragedy, and he is a victim of the terrorists more than a victim of the police.


18 posted on 07/28/2005 12:12:24 PM PDT by Paradox (I just neutered my cat, now he's a Liberal.)
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To: Pyro7480
"On investigation, this stamp was not one that was in use by the Immigration and Nationality Directorate on the date given."

Hmmm...and just where does one go to get one of those stamps which grants one "indefinite leave to remain in the UK"?

Which "community" within the UK might from time to time require a documents expert?

Hmmm...?

19 posted on 07/28/2005 12:13:43 PM PDT by wayoverontheright
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To: Pyro7480

Yup. I'm sure these officers just shot the guy cause they felt like it. No reason to suspect the guy at all. Sure.


20 posted on 07/28/2005 12:14:59 PM PDT by teenyelliott (Soylent green should be made outta liberals...)
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To: Pyro7480

He very well may have been a terrorist, just not part of the most recently active cell.


21 posted on 07/28/2005 12:15:21 PM PDT by GOP_1900AD (Stomping on "PC," destroying the"and Left, and smoking out faux "conservatives" - Take Back The GOP!)
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To: Pyro7480

The moral of the story: When a policeman yells "stop", one better stop.


22 posted on 07/28/2005 12:16:46 PM PDT by fish hawk (hollow points were made to hold pig lard)
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To: Pyro7480
""Mr de Menzes ... applied for leave to remain as a student. This was approved on October 31, 2002, and he was granted leave to remain until June 30, 2003. Mr de Menezes, 27, a Brazilian national who was working in London as an electrician... who was installing SECURITY alarms in London....

And the same address as the terrorists.

Doesn't pass the small test.

23 posted on 07/28/2005 12:32:32 PM PDT by spokeshave (Strategery + Shardenfreuden = Stratenshardenfreudenery)
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To: wayoverontheright

Probably the "counterfeit visa community."

By a strange coincidence, a couple of days after this guy's death, the police raided a place in Britain that was busy cranking out phony "student" and other visas.


24 posted on 07/28/2005 12:38:12 PM PDT by livius
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To: Pyro7480
O.K. Let's review some of the information on this Brazilian so far:

1. Illegal documents/visa.
2. Sends large sums of money home to his family (larger than known income)
3. An electrician by trade.
4. Seen either coming from the bombers house or lived there.
5. Running like hell from police.

Could it be he was working for the terrorist helping rig the bombs?

Hmmm.
25 posted on 07/28/2005 12:40:25 PM PDT by poobear (Imagine a world of liberal silence.)
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To: wideawake

Exactly so. My guess is that the family is doing their best to increase their cash award.


26 posted on 07/28/2005 12:42:20 PM PDT by MizSterious (Now, if only we could convince them all to put on their bomb-vests and meet in Mecca...)
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To: Pyro7480; All

The day after this shooting happened everyone was saying the poor guy didn't speak English, so he was running from the police because he thought he was going to be mugged again. One question, how can a person live in another country for several years and not learn what, "Stop, Police" means? My daughter is a language instructor and she tells me the best way to learn a language is immersion in the country/culture. This thing smells and I bet by the time it is sorted out, the police will be the ones smelling good.


27 posted on 07/28/2005 12:48:17 PM PDT by Vor Lady (O, ace, a, omen, eta, usi...)
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To: poobear

Looks like you're thinking the same thing I've been thinking. Wanna bet that as more comes out about this guy, he'll look less and less "innocent"?


28 posted on 07/28/2005 12:49:39 PM PDT by MizSterious (Now, if only we could convince them all to put on their bomb-vests and meet in Mecca...)
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To: MizSterious

Love your tagline! Sounds like a great idea to me!


29 posted on 07/28/2005 12:50:57 PM PDT by Vor Lady (O, ace, a, omen, eta, usi...)
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To: Grannyx4

Even his family admits he spoke good English. When my husband went to Brazil a few years ago, he was surprised at how many people spoke (very) good English.


30 posted on 07/28/2005 12:51:15 PM PDT by MizSterious (Now, if only we could convince them all to put on their bomb-vests and meet in Mecca...)
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To: Pyro7480

He was just doing the work that the Brits were too lazy to do...


31 posted on 07/28/2005 12:52:02 PM PDT by Cowboy Bob (Liberalism cannot survive in a free and open society.)
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To: Pyro7480

I don't suppose we could hire those U.K. cops to help out with our (ahem) "problems" on our southern border with illegals, now could we?


32 posted on 07/28/2005 12:52:05 PM PDT by Mad Mammoth (Some folks just need killin' = Clint Eastwood as 'The Outlaw Josey Wales'...)
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To: Grannyx4

;)


33 posted on 07/28/2005 12:52:47 PM PDT by MizSterious (Now, if only we could convince them all to put on their bomb-vests and meet in Mecca...)
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To: Paradox
No matter how you justify it, this sux, and it sucks badly. However, under the circumstances, the Police actions were understandable. It doesn't take much of any jacket to cover a bomb belt or bomb vest. This is just a sad, sad tragedy, and he is a victim of the terrorists more than a victim of the police.

Once it got to the point of Menezes running in the train station, they really didn't have much choice.

The police screwed up pretty badly, though. Menezes lived in a small building (8 flats), and the cops could have, and should have, made sure they knew everybody who lived there. The start of this mess was when they started tailing a guy who came out of the building, who they didn't know. But Menezes had lived there for a long time, and they should have known who he was.

Bad legwork up front led to bad results downstream.

34 posted on 07/28/2005 12:54:23 PM PDT by r9etb
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To: Pyro7480
Ms Figueiredo said: "They are saying he did absolutely nothing wrong when he was killed, so why don’t they say all this publicly?"

He jumped a ****in' turnstile ****in' running from the ****in' police, you dumb ****!

35 posted on 07/28/2005 12:55:14 PM PDT by AmishDude (Join the Amishdude fan club: "LOL, you have a great sense of humor." -- msmagoo54)
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To: DCPatriot

One question.
Was he a practicing Muslim?




Good question!


36 posted on 07/28/2005 12:56:03 PM PDT by airborne
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To: Pyro7480

The plot thickens.
There is more to this...


37 posted on 07/28/2005 12:56:15 PM PDT by Cincinna (BEWARE HILLARY and her HINO)
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To: MizSterious

Amazing how the cops are so stupid, isn't it? Sarcasm off.

Bill Cosby used to say, "Spank your kids once a day, if you don't know what for, they will." This guy sounds like he might have been having the guilts; the cops may never know why he ran, but maybe it won't matter.


38 posted on 07/28/2005 12:58:19 PM PDT by Vor Lady (O, ace, a, omen, eta, usi...)
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To: Pyro7480

How do they know he wasn't a suicide bomber? Is John Edwards channeling him?


39 posted on 07/28/2005 12:59:00 PM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: DCPatriot

"Was he a practicing Muslim?"

No, Catholic.


40 posted on 07/28/2005 12:59:31 PM PDT by Canard
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To: w1andsodidwe

"The Taser was used because he was not an immediate threat to blow himself up."

I'm not sure what you're basing that on, considering the guy tasered was one of the guys who tried to blow himself up last week and was reportedly wearing a backpack when arrested.


41 posted on 07/28/2005 1:02:24 PM PDT by Canard
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To: Pyro7480
27 year old student, employed as an electrician?
42 posted on 07/28/2005 1:03:57 PM PDT by TASMANIANRED (Democrats haven't had a new idea since Karl Marx.)
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To: Canard
I'm not sure what you're basing that on, considering the guy tasered was one of the guys who tried to blow himself up last week

The operative word is immediate. He apparently did not appear to have bombs strapped to him when arrested, the Brazilian looked like he did.

43 posted on 07/28/2005 1:18:09 PM PDT by w1andsodidwe (Jimmy Carter allowed radical Islam to get a foothold in Iran.)
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To: w1andsodidwe

Yes, no-one would ever put a bomb in a backpack...


44 posted on 07/28/2005 1:19:11 PM PDT by Canard
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To: poobear
O.K. Let's review some of the information on this Brazilian so far:

1. Illegal documents/visa.

2. Sends large sums of money home to his family (larger than known income)

3. An electrician by trade... Reportedly installing security alarms in London..

4. Seen either coming from the bombers house or lived there.

5. Running like hell from police.

Could it be he was working for the terrorist helping rig the bombs?

Added more info to #3

45 posted on 07/28/2005 1:26:49 PM PDT by spokeshave (Strategery + Shardenfreuden = Stratenshardenfreudenery)
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To: Pyro7480
The Establishment will say anything to excuse its blunders.

In the meantime, the scum terrorists arrested with bombs and bombing plans are being handled with kid gloves put in air conditioned cells with access to fire breathing imams who work hard converting other scum in prisons to their evil ideology. Aren't we so civilized and humane.

46 posted on 07/28/2005 1:32:08 PM PDT by Revolting cat! ("In the end, nothing explains anything!")
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To: Sacajaweau

This one might interest you...


47 posted on 07/28/2005 1:41:55 PM PDT by MizSterious (Now, if only we could convince them all to put on their bomb-vests and meet in Mecca...)
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To: Pyro7480

Yes, he thought la Migra was after him. If the word gets out that illegal aliens will be shot on sight (seven times no less) the problem will go away.


48 posted on 07/28/2005 1:57:47 PM PDT by Malesherbes
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To: airborne

I've known some tough cops in my day but I don't think I have ever met one who could dump half a mag in some thugs skull, especially if there wasn't much physical resistance.

That is more the trait of a soldier who hasn't been taught how to subdue prisoners and one just recently back from hot combat, where blood and busted brains are an everyday sight.

I have a hunch that there is a lot more that will never come out.


49 posted on 07/28/2005 2:43:25 PM PDT by B4Ranch ( Report every illegal alien that you meet. Call 866-347-2423, Employers use 888-464-4218)
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To: Names Ash Housewares

The police did a damn-d bad investigation. Whoever said that this guy was a suspect should be fined or serve jailtime on probation for negligient murder.


50 posted on 07/28/2005 2:46:29 PM PDT by Michael81Dus
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