Skip to comments.Ebola Recombinant Linked to Mystery Illness in Sichuan China? (BIOWEAPON ALERT!!)
Posted on 07/30/2005 2:07:13 PM PDT by datura
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Ebola Recombinant Linked to Mystery Illness in Sichuan China?
July 30, 2005
D: "It's alright. We ran tests on those samples and isolated the SZ77++A3231 virus."
I: "What is this SZ77++A3231 virus?"
D: "This is a strain of the Ebola virus."
I: "Would you like to comment about it?"
D: "It's rather impossible to totally explain it."
I: "I can understand so, but why is the term "less-infectious" always affixed to our version of the Ebola virus?"
D: "There are 2 reasons for doing so. First, to reduce panic among the people should it ever leak. And second, the Ebola virus has evolved in China. Re-combination has been detected. Most prominently at the portion which determines its effect on humans (very technical description, I can't describe it. sorry.). Also, abrupt breaks in the sequencing were detected, leading to changes in the incubation period. (Or possibly "changes in the incubation period were detected")
I: "How were these viruses classified then? / Could you elaborate more about the various strains?"
D: "Previously, strains of Ebola in China always had the EBO prefix. Subsequently following information leaks, the classification method was changed. We stopped using the EBO prefix. Instead, coupled with the discovery that the virus had become more virulent and lethal, we re-named the strains according to the placed where they were first discovered. For example, the strain in June became the SZ77++A3231. Sometimes, we don't even use their place of discovery, instead directly naming it the ++A3231."
I: "In that way, the Ebola virus wouldn't even be brought into the picture."
D: "Precisely, viruses such as the Ebola are national secrets."
The above comments by a physician involved in testng samples from patients in the mysterious swine outbreak in Sichuan indicate that one of the agents isolated is a recombinant Ebola virus originally isolated from Shenzen. Prior reports had listed the names and characteristics of various Ebola isolates and EB-SZ-277 was capable of infecting birds. SZ277++A3231 is a recombinant version of SZ-277 isolated from a patient. The discussion indicates China has an active Ebola project and the virus is rapidly evolving via recombination. It was not clear from earlier reports if the agent was isolated and sequenced, but this interview leaves little doubt that both isolation and sequencing of Ebola is quite active. It is unclear if the recombination is related to the region of identity between Ebola and H5N1. Ebola is considered a state secret, so there are no reports of the virus or availability of virus or sequences.
The interview also indicates that the streptococcus suis is not the cause of the illness. It is present in pigs and is merely activated by infectious agents, which include Ebola, plague, and an un-named virus which is considered "dangerous". The emphasis is on the bacteria because it can produce similar symptoms. The symptoms of the patients match pandemic flu of 1918, and H5N1 can produce such symptoms.
The interview, if accurate, would support the role of agents other than be bacteria, in the spread on prgression of the illness. streptococcus Suis does not produce the high case fatality rate, and can be treated with antibiotics, as can plague. The high case fatality rate also supports the involvement of a virus and the proximity to Qinghai Lake keeps H5N1bird flu and migratory birds on the short list of explanations for the raid spread of the fatal disease that is resistant to antibiotic treatment.
© 2005 Recombinomics. All rights reserved.
Now we have this entirely NEW disease, with no precedent, and high fatality rates, capable of being transmitted by FLIES (from another news report on FR) as well as fluids, that China is trying to cover up.
That's why this one is posted in "Breaking" News - normally I try to avoid posting there. The dots are too close together to not connect them this time. The "precursor" to this thread was posted by Tiger Likes Rooster, on 19 Jul 05 (with photos). That thread is: Here.
Additionally, this spreads via migratory birds.
Unsubstantiated rumors still contend that Cuba's bioweapon program used migratory birds (jays and crows) to bring West Nile to the US.
Cuba and China are hand and glove.
Wasn't Saddam rumored to be the instigator behind spreading West Nile to the U.S.?
At one time, yes. Then a Cuban defector claimed Cuba. Given the proximity of Cuba, it may have been both - we'll never know.
This time, the ChiComs have their paw prints all over this one.
Did they steal the virus while they were there...or was someone infected and brought it back?
Why do I have a feeling Michael Crichton is typing away on a new novel called FlyFlu Park or something?
Good question. Chicken or the egg?
The bottom line is that this thing is loose. Considering the size of land mass now infected, calling it Stage 6 should be academic.
I guess the ChiComs found out how to control their restless rural population.
I just started reading "Timeline" by Mr. Crichton.
These people are sick on purpose. This is indeed a bio or chemical weapon they are testing.
You bring up a secondary question that I forgot to ask - so now I will - are they trying to make this new disease ethnically targeted? The Han Chinese are VERY racist. They lump everyone below them. (Another reason that they will fail.)
An excerpt of the text you get if you click the "isolated" link:
"An 18 nucleotide region of H5 is found in the Ebola env gene, signaling the exchange of genetic information between H5N1 and Ebola (the sequence is specific for H5N1 isolates). Variations in sequences between Ebola or Marburg strains has been noted and Ebola like other viruses can evolve rapidly via recombination."
Sounds far-fetched, but if it's true, this is fascinating stuff. Exchange of genetic information between H5N1 and Ebola? If I were unaware of Henry Niman's reputation, I might be laughing out loud. I'm not laughing.
Curious about something: Does anyone know what sorts of critters can host Ebola? I haven't been paying attention.
Well, I did say eerily similar, right? And I ain't talking about a Great Lake, either.
Mammals. Flies. Mosquitos (unverified). This strain - BIRDS.
Migratory birds are the equivalent of an ICBM in delivery systems. Unstoppable, and certain as sunrise.
Bump and ping for later intensive read. Thanks for posting.
We have to assume that they are obviously targeting caucasians and Africans. If they can get this to target those two only - and NOT Chinese - then this thing will be exported every way they can, as soon as possible. This would eliminate Russia as well, giving the ChiComs nearly total victory.
Certainly. Please check back later.
True, but they can't protect themselves from their very own delivery system. China has birds too.
Exactly what some of us has been saying for years.
Well, I'm not a doctor, nor do I play one on television. But how can they pull ethnic specific diseases beats the hell out of me. Your assertion is more than plausible, I'm sad to say.
Very interesting. Thanks for posting.
Granted. That's why they would try to segregate by ethnicity. (Besides, they think we're just round-eyed barbarians.)
China has a large number of ethnicities. As of late, they have more social classes than ever before. The middle class is less restless - since they are the ones winning in the current system. The uneducated agricultural class in China is also the one raising Hell with the government. They're the ones being executed by firing squads. They're also the ones dying from this outbreak - not the middle or upper class.
Also, this is moving to both Russia and India. The geographical area covered is HUGE. The numbers we're seeing are just a minute sampling of what's actually going on there - you can be sure of that.
I don't know exactly how they would do it either. All I know for certain is how racist they are. Ethnically specific diseases exist - sickle cell anemia for one - SARS seems as though it were restricted to Asians. I'm Native - years ago TB was the "Indian disease".
It would take a nation run by racists to think they could code some weapon for race only. China is that deeply racist.
Just like the Japanese. This is very interesting.
Nah! Just build more windmill generators on the west coast...
That makes two of us, but the Ebola virus has been worrisome to me from the start and though I have followed it only sporadically, increasingly these developments are alarming. I want to fight them with a gun.
Posters like bayourod would go insane - why keep the birds out, "they're just carrying the infections American birds won't".
But then flies would get on the dead birds.
While plausible in theory, it would be nigh impossible in practice, particularly when trying to target a significant diversity of ethnic groups to the exclusion of one. Doubly so for targeting caucasians, with their unusually filthy and diverse genetics. You are much more likely to get a human planet-kill out of it than an ethnicity specific disease, and no matter what kind of cleverness they come up with, quite a few Asians and Chinese will get taken by it.
While susceptibility to diseases is statistically biased in a fashion that follows ethnic genetics, it tends to follow very narrow genetic profiles -- you cannot tag a broad genetic swath of humanity except with the crudest filters that will miss a hell of a lot. And as I mentioned above, it would probably be unwise for the Chinese to start that game, as caucasians generally have far more robust genetic protections against pandemics than ethnic Chinese. Even if they were able to create such a thing, there would be an awful lot of caucasians left over with excellent biotech skills and a much more vulnerable ethnicity as a target. Dealing with a biological first-strike scenario of this type would be super-ugly, but by random luck of genetic history, there would be a significant asymmetry in vulnerability and the Chinese who developed these weapons would know that.
Fear of retribution is a bitch.
Thanks for the response, datura. If there really is a new strain of Ebola in PRC, I doubt very much that it was created by the Chinese government as a bioweapon. For one thing, I doubt that any government knows how to protect its own population against Ebola. And I certainly doubt that any nation's science is so advanced that it could modify a disease so as to make it affect only specific ethnic groups!
Out of curiousity, does anyone know of an existing infectious disease that only affects certain ethnic groups? They may be out there, but I can't think of any. The illnesses I can think of that seem to discriminate by ethnicity or geography are all considered to be linked to heredity, environment, or diet, rather than to pathogens.
Off topic, I hope you have fully recovered from your accident.
Did SARS kill any caucasians? Or was it "Asian only"?
Thanx. I'm recovering. And I'll be recovering for six to eight months.
This isn't said in jest, so please don't take it that way, but, if China killed off America, that would be like killing the goose that laid the golden egg. Who would buy their patio furniture?
There are many diseases for which the susceptibility varies greatly among ethnic groups, due to differences in genetics and point mutation distribution. For obvious reasons, there is no "perfect" isolation. For a cheap example, there is the well-documented genetic resistance/immunity of some northern European caucasians to HIV. Protections against infectious disease like this are never universal for an ethnic group, but it does generate significant differences in transmission and infection rates.
Ohhhh, I'm sorry to hear it will take that long...God speed in your full recovery.
I've had the same question. However, if you look at things through their eyes, they would have the entire planet at their own disposal then. They only care about "money" right now because a capitalist society is the "hegemon".
Their rulers actually think Marx was right. (Because communism gives the ruling class ultimate power.)
I'm too lazy to research it, but I seem to recall that they isolated a genetic susceptibility that is common in and largely limited to Asians, giving a strong bias toward the infection of Asian hosts. IIRC, that genetic tag is more common in southern Asia than in the northern parts, so susceptibility is not even uniform among Asians.
But as I said, I'm pulling this out of memory and I could be wildly incorrect.
Attempting to wipe out an entire race would be their downfall. We aren't the only country with ICBM's. I would imagine that if that is their plan, they have not thought it fully through.
If it came out that China was doing a little ethnic cleansing with America, our birds would be off in no time at all. If we go down because of China...we will take them down with us.
Do you think China would actually go that route knowing what their ultimate outcome would be?
They needed us only to establish their manufacturing base and modern financial and distribution systems. Whether or not this disease cluster was engineered, China will eventually become fully self sufficient and external trading partners will no longer be an impediment to invading Taiwan or the world.
Faster bioterrorism directive sought
By JEFF NESMITH
Cox News Service
Friday, July 29, 2005
WASHINGTON The government is moving too slowly to prepare for the possibility that terrorists will attack America with deadly chemicals, diseases or devices that spread radioactive substances, members of a House subcommittee said Thursday.
Congress directed the Department of Homeland Security last year to assess the danger that a wide array of specific biochemical or radiological threats might pose in the hands of terrorists.
But members of a Homeland Security subcommittee examining these threats said determinations have been completed on only four: smallpox, anthrax, botulinum toxin and a radiological or nuclear device.
A declaration by the department that an agent presents a significant threat is supposed to trigger further study by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to assess the potential health consequences of the agent and recommend countermeasures to Congress.
John Vitko, director of the chemical and biological countermeasures office at DHS, said the agency expected to have its assessments of 29 agents completed by the end of this year.
"I understand there are 60 potential threats being evaluated," said Rep. Michael McCaul, R-Texas. "Why have you done only four?"
Vitko said 40 to 50 experts from various disciplines must be consulted in each of four steps the agency follows in identifying the threats and assessing the ability of terrorist groups to use them.
"We are all very concerned about the pace here," McCaul said after the hearing, adding that he is particularly concerned about the deadly Ebola virus, one of the potential biological agents under review. "We need to speed this process up."
McCaul also complained that grants by the Department of Health and Human Services to support fire departments, police, hospitals and other "first responders" in case of a terrorist attack are being distributed under a formula that short changes the largest states.
"In Texas, we're always dead last on a per capita basis in these kind of grants, along with New York and California," he said.
McCaul and others urged Vitko to step up the pace of the assessments.
He said the grants should be targeted to areas of greatest risk.
Asked by Rep. John Linder, R-Ga., chairman of the subcommittee, if terrorists could use the H5N1 avian influenza virus as a biological weapon, Dr. Julie Gerberding, director of the CDC, said that might be possible, since influenza can easily be genetically engineered and spreads very rapidly.
"But in this case, Mother Nature herself is a very effective terrorist," she added, referring to the fear by many health experts that the "bird flu" now circulating in Asia will evolve into a human disease and cause a pandemic that could kill millions of people.
Gerberding and Dr. Anthony Fauci, head of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, were asked by Rep. Christopher Shays, R-Conn., if scientists could engineer a disease that might kill everyone on Earth.
Shays said that before the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, a medical scientist testified before another House committee that his greatest fear was that "small group of dedicated scientists could create an altered biological agent that could wipe out humanity as we know it."
"Is that something that concerns you?" Shays asked Gerberding and Fauci.
"You're asking us to imagine the unimaginable," Gerberding replied, adding that the "technical obstacles are relatively trivial."
What would be hard, she said, would be to distribute the engineered microbe in a way "that would bypass our capacity to recognize it and intervene effectively."
But she added: "These are things that we as federal agencies ought to and are imagining all the time . . . to try to stay one step ahead of terrorists in this regard."
Fauci said that although "you can do almost anything with a microbe," it would be "very, very difficult to do that, extremely difficult even in the best laboratories."
He said if a microbe is engineered with goals such as making it resistant to vaccines and antiviral or antibiotic medications, the likelihood is that "you mutate it out of existence."
"It's not impossible, but very, very difficult," he said.
Jeff Nesmith's e-mail address is jeffn(at)coxnews.com
Could the ChiComs possibly be betting the farm on sheer population sizes here? Try to imagine our economy with a 40-70% death rate. They have an essentially new military, that is isolated from the masses in China - keeping them protected as a group.
Once the infection hit here, we'd have mass panic, quarantine, some anarchy. I don't know how far that anarchy would go. We'd fight quarantine - since being quarantined we'd have to trust our keepers to not just turn to the "final solution". I know I'd fight it.
Russia would be decimated, since this is already there, and they've got negative population growth big time already.
India's health care system would be overwhelmed - to say the least. They'd lose at least 70%.
Is the CCP willing to gamble on this - now??? Their window of vulnerability will be closing for nuclear attack once our missile defense is online.
Damn. Thanks for posting that.
That is a hereditary disease, not infectious. However, the mutation that causes it does grant an ethnicity specific immunity/resistance to malaria. There are a number of ethnicity specific hereditary diseases that confer protection from other diseases that are bad for the host if they get the genes from both parents, but beneficial if they get it from only one.
Another example of this is Tay-Sachs hereditary disease common to eastern European Ashkenazi Jews. A single copy of that mutation will give immunity against TB, but two copies will kill you.
Many other hereditary mutations that protect against infectious disease cause no hereditary diseases on their own, but they are less well-known primarily because there is no nasty side-effects to highlight the existence of an interesting mutation. Hereditary diseases like Sickle Cell Anemia would normally be bred out of a population if it was not for the fact that at some point the mutation also greatly enhanced survivability of the person carrying it.
If history tells me anything it's not to murder the people who grow your food. When the Soviet Union took control of the farming in Russia, they called the co-ops I think. The Russians nearly starved to death.
Whether or not this disease cluster was engineered, China will eventually become fully self sufficient and external trading partners will no longer be an impediment to invading Taiwan or the world.
They can be self-sufficent till the cows come home, but, without someone to buy their goods...they have no money to further their goal. Should we fall either through ethnic cleansing or an economic collapse...they will too.
The US is simply too genetically diverse, buttressed by a strong northern European genetic component. Anything that is strong enough to hit a 40% death rate in the US will also be strong enough to sweep through China.
Also, China is a filthy and crowded third-world country with very marginal sanitation and an economy that is FAR more dependent on human labor and interaction than the US is. The transmission paths will be much denser and quicker in China than in the US, and they would have to squash a much bigger part of their economy to have a prayer of containing it.