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Muslims can lie for Allah

Posted on 07/31/2005 5:27:52 AM PDT by police

The principle of Al-Takeyya The Arabic word, "Takeyya", means "to prevent," or guard against. The principle of Al Takeyya conveys the understanding that Muslims are permitted to lie as a preventive measure against anticipated harm to one's self or fellow Muslims. This principle gives Muslims the liberty to lie under circumstances that they perceive as life threatening. They can even deny the faith, if they do not mean it in their hearts. Al-Takeyya is based on the following Quranic verse:

"Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution (prevention), that ye may Guard yourselves from them (prevent them from harming you.) But Allah cautions you (To remember) Himself; for the final goal is to Allah." Surah 3: 28

According to this verse a Muslim can pretend to befriend infidels (in violation of the teachings of Islam) and display adherence with their unbelief to prevent them from harming him.

Under the concept of Takeyya and short of killing another human being, if under the threat of force, it is legitimate for Muslims to act contrary to their faith. The following actions are acceptable:

Drink wine, abandon prayers, and skip fasting during Ramadan. Renounce belief in Allah. Kneel in homage to a deity other than Allah. Utter insincere oaths.


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: kitman; margarita; muslim; nosalt; ontherocks; pharisee; takeyya; taqiyya; taquija; taquiyya; tequila
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1 posted on 07/31/2005 5:27:52 AM PDT by police
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To: police

bump


2 posted on 07/31/2005 5:30:25 AM PDT by Dark Skies (Jesus loves you...particularly if you are under the spell of Islam.)
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To: police

In other words, they have the same rule sets as liberals, with just a bit more unshrouded violence towards Christians and Jews.


3 posted on 07/31/2005 5:32:04 AM PDT by TADSLOS (Right Wing Infidel since 1954)
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To: police

Bump for reference.


4 posted on 07/31/2005 5:33:09 AM PDT by MeneMeneTekelUpharsin (Freedom is the freedom to discipline yourself so others don't have to do it for you.)
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To: police
Taqiyya and kitman: The role of Deception in Islamic terrorism

Taqiyya and kitman: The role of Deception in Islamic terrorism

Tradecraft. Persona. Deception. Disinformation. Cover: Western operational terms and techniques. But, Islamic terrorists have their own terms:  taqiyya (pronounced tark-e-ya) : precautionary dissimulation or deception and keeping one’s convictions secret and a synonymous term, kitman: mental reservation and dissimulation or concealment of malevolent intentions...  

Taqiyya and kitman or ‘holy hypocrisy’ has been diffused throughout Arabic culture for over fourteen hundred years since it was developed by Shiites as a means of defence and concealment of beliefs against Sunni unbelievers. As the Prophet said: 'he who keeps secrets shall soon attain his objectives.

The skilful use of taqiyya and kitman was often a matter of life and death against enemies; it is also a matter of life and death to many contemporary Islamic terrorists. As so often in the history of Islam, a theological doctrine became operational.

During the Spanish inquisition, Sunni Moriscos attended mass and returned home to wash their hands of the ‘holy water’. In operational terms, taqiyya and kitman allowed the ‘mujahadeen ’ to assume whatever identity was necessary to fulfill their mission; they had doctrinal and theological and later jurisprudential sanction to  pretend to be Jews or Christians to gain access to Christian and Jewish targets: ‘the mujahadeen can take the shape of the enemy’.

Taqiyya is common to both Shiite and Sunni Muslim discourse and has significant implications for understanding Islamic fundamentalism and terrorist operations. The theory and practice of counter terrorism would be counter productive, indeed pointless, and even harmful, without reference to taqiyya and kitman and the crucial role of deception ranging from Islamic jurisprudence to Al Qaeda training manuals, which carry detailed instructions on the use of deception by terrorists in Western target countries.

According to Christian ethics lying is a sin; In Islamic jurisprudence and theology, the use of taqiyya against the unbelievers is regarded as a virtue and a religious duty.


"Verily the most honourable of you in the sight of God
is the most pious among you; verily, God is knowing, aware!" 49:13


Shi'a interpret the phrase above as
"he among you who exercises Taqiyya most"

 

Like many Islamic concepts taqiyya and kitman were formed within the context of the Arab-Islamic matrix of tribalism, expansionary warfare and conflict. Taqiyya has been used by Muslims since the 7th century to confuse and split 'the enemy. A favored tactic was ‘deceptive triangulation’; to persuade the enemy that jihad was not aimed at them but at another enemy. Another tactic was to deny that there was jihad at all.  The fate for such faulty assessments by the target was death.

Sydney NSW Australia: 2 November 2002

Sheik Taj el-Din al Hilaly, the controversial Grand Mufti of Australia, is enjoying lunch with his trusted assistant Keysar Trad. The journalist writing of the meeting with the Sheik noted:

'Several times, when direct responses to questions about passages in the Koran begged a simple yes or no, both men preferred to avoid the issues by talking about the difficulties of translating passages from Arabic to English.’

Referring to the Sheikhs blithe dismissal of his virulent anti-Semitic remarks in 1998, the journalist reflected:

'I can only muse at the facility of my guest, who has also praised suicide bombers in more recent times, to dismiss his notorious and abominable remarks with such ease and without actual apology. It seems clear that he is considering the way his remarks will be construed by the Sunday Telegraph’s huge and influential audience when they are translated into Arabic for Muslims to debate. He’s walking a tightrope.'

The skilled journalist should not be puzzled as the Sheik's target audiences were Australians and not Arab readers. Taqiyya, or dissimulation, is a key feature in Islamic public discourse and confuses Western audiences. It is meant to, according to the Koran:

'Let not the believers take for friends or helpers unbelievers rather than believers; if any do that; they shall have no relation left with Allah except by way of precaution….that ye may guard yourselves’. 3:28

Al Taqiyya is with tongue only; not the heart. A believer can make any statement as long as the ‘heart is comfortable'. The 9/11 terrorists lived and visited in the United States for two years before the 9/11 attacks. How did they acculturate? By the use of taqiyya. Meaning:  I hate you but I smile at you-in public.

Taqiyya and ‘Outwitting’ in contemporary political discourse and debates

Outwitting: Islamic spokesmen commonly use taqiyya as a form of ‘outwitting’. The matter under discussion is not to be debated or discussed; rather the opponent is to ‘outwitted’ through taqiyya, by diversion of the subject and obfuscation aided at times with a mystical reference to God or Allah.

The claim that difficulties in translating from Arabic to English make communication with non-Arab speakers difficult or impossible, is another form of outwitting. The tactical use of a translator offers considerable advantage.

Role playing as victim: Claiming to be 'the victim’ of religious discrimination and intolerance during debate or discussion is another form of distraction and ‘outwitting’.

Manipulating ambiguity: Sheik Hilaly of Sydney, Australia is on public record as (a) ’condemning’ the 9/11 attacks in ambiguous terms and (b) praising suicide and martyr operations  However, Islamic spokesmen will rarely condemn a specific act of terrorism and direct questions will be skillfully evaded.

Diversion: For example, questions  relating to the 9/11 terrorists attacks will be diverted  by a causally irrelevant counter reference to the plight of the Palestinians, the nefarious role of Israel and US foreign policy and support for Israel as ‘causes’ of terrorism.

Anti-Semitism, a core belief of Islamic fundamentalism is also skillfully diverted  by misleading and exaggerated historical references to the alleged status enjoyed by Jews and non-believers under Islamic rule, thereby deflecting critical examination of the virulent contemporary Islamic anti-Semitism.

Demanding ’evidence’: Islamic spokesmen practice a form of taqiyya defined in psychology as ‘cognitive denial’ by repetitive and extreme requests for ‘evidence’ and ‘proof’ of alleged terrorist acts, which they know cannot be disclosed.  

Tactical denial: Rather than admitting that a proposition concerning a state of affairs can be partly true, an Islamic spokesman will deny a claim or proposition in absolute terms. For example, “It is impossible to be a Muslim and a terrorist’ , which is false and ‘Islam forbids suicide’, which is true, but irrelevant as suicide or martyrdom attacks are not forbidden in the Koran.

Exploiting cognitive dissonance: Islamic spokesman tend to be baffle television interviewers and puzzle viewers as they resort to double talk ‘clichés and platitudes’ concerning Islam. A state of cognitive dissonance-holding two contradictory beliefs and attempting to resolve them- is induced in viewers as they attempt to process the claim that Islam is a peaceful religion with the dissonant facts of Islamic terrorist acts and operations.

The Islamic ’defence’ script: Islamic spokesmen repeat the same predictable platitudes concerning Islam in London as do Islamic spokesmen in Seattle and often appear to follow a prepared script from “Islam is tolerant and peace loving’ to the claim by Islamic spokeswomen invariably claiming that wearing the veil offers them more freedom (women in Muslim countries are therefore ‘freer’ than women in western countries), thereby precluding further examination into the real status of women under Islamic rule.

Islamic platitudes are also echoed uncritically by Western politicians, for example ”A small group of fundamentalists have hijacked a great religion’. The timely, skilful, misleading and diversionary theme of the ‘hijacking’ of Islam was introduced into public, political and media discourse by an Islamic ‘spokesmen’ in the United States shortly after the 9/11 terrorist attacks.

The “Islam has been hijacked’ diversionary theme is now a conventional media and political reference deflecting attention from empirical and historical examination of the doctrinal, political and religious continuity of Islamic terrorism. A related theme that a small minority of Muslims are engaged in terrorism is utterly irrelevant as Islamic terrorism is always perpetrated by ‘small minorities’ or more accurately’ small groups’.

Taqiyya as impressions and perceptions management

The tactical use of children: Australia television viewers noted that interviews with terrorist suspects raided by security authorities invariably featured veiled women holding small children or a baby as they protested their husband’s innocence and attested to his innate goodness. Trembling fingers pointed to ‘damage’ to the family residence.  In some interviews the suspect / father holds the child, whilst denying involvement or knowledge of terrorism in any sense of the word: an example of taqiyya in the age of impressions and perception management.

Taqiyya and the Deceptive use of Jihad: The contemporary political meaning of jihad is clear: it is Jihad of the sword. Egyptian-based Islamic fundamentalists, from whom Bin Laden recruited his key operatives, believe jihad is the fourth pillar of Islam and is a binding belief and integral to the faith. Claiming that Jihad is a subjective and psychological state of personal struggle is taqiyya. In contemporary terms, Jihad means  - holy war - against unbelievers and it in this context that Al Qaeda training manuals refer to Jihad as ‘Holy War’.

The study of taqiyya and kitman is crucial to an understanding of Islamic fundamentalism and terrorism ranging from the issuing of false terrorist threats, operational and strategic disinformation issued by Al Qaeda in the form of ‘intelligence chatter’ to the use of taqiyya and kitman by terrorists during interrogation and the use of systematically misleading expressions concerning Islam and terrorism by Muslim ‘spokesmen’.


5 posted on 07/31/2005 5:36:44 AM PDT by USF (I see your Jihad and raise you a Crusade )
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To: police

It is not a religion...it is an excuse to be hateful, deceitful and be self indulgent while pointing at others and declaring they are sinners...it is just a weird cult that need to be eliminated fron US soil.


6 posted on 07/31/2005 5:37:43 AM PDT by antivenom (If your not living on the edge, you're taking up too much damn space!!!)
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To: police
Here's an excellent website:

Click here for explanations.

7 posted on 07/31/2005 5:38:41 AM PDT by MeneMeneTekelUpharsin (Freedom is the freedom to discipline yourself so others don't have to do it for you.)
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To: police

In other words, allah allows his followers to be utter cowards.


8 posted on 07/31/2005 5:39:16 AM PDT by DeepInTheHeartOfTexas
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To: police
Meanwhile, here's a quote from a thread posted almost simultaneously with this one:

"The Middle East Quarterly has reported Islamic leaders sometimes bend to government pressure to issue appeasing statements."

9 posted on 07/31/2005 5:41:59 AM PDT by pigsmith
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To: USF
Here in Houston, CAIR is airing commercials with ragheads decalring their love of country and anger with terrorists who maim and kill non-muslims and muslims too.

After reading this I will understand their lies and propaganda a bit better.

10 posted on 07/31/2005 5:42:52 AM PDT by antivenom (If your not living on the edge, you're taking up too much damn space!!!)
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To: police
Here are some more articles regarding al-Taqiyya.

al-Taqiyya/Dissimulation (Part I)

al-Taqiyya/Dissimulation (Part II)

al-Taqiyya/Dissimulation (Part III)
11 posted on 07/31/2005 5:42:56 AM PDT by Man50D
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To: police
All religions do this "justification" thing. It always comes down to the same sin,

Pride...

12 posted on 07/31/2005 5:44:53 AM PDT by sirchtruth (Words Mean Things...)
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To: police
Several passages from the Bible which address this issue:

John 8:44 "You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature; for he is a liar, and the father of lies.

Proverbs 19:22 What is desirable in a man is his kindness, And it is better to be a poor man than a liar.

1 John 2:22 Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son.

1 John 4:20 If someone says, "I love God,"and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen.

Revelations 21:8 "But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."

13 posted on 07/31/2005 5:45:05 AM PDT by MeneMeneTekelUpharsin (Freedom is the freedom to discipline yourself so others don't have to do it for you.)
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To: police

Any way you look at it, Izlamb is one screwed up Cult.


14 posted on 07/31/2005 5:48:27 AM PDT by DoctorMichael (The Fourth-Estate is a Fifth-Column!)
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To: police

Thanks


15 posted on 07/31/2005 5:49:01 AM PDT by Modok
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To: antivenom
It is not a religion...

That depends on whether Allah (aka Satan) is real or not.

16 posted on 07/31/2005 5:49:44 AM PDT by Dark Skies ("The sleeper must awaken!")
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To: MeneMeneTekelUpharsin

Excellent tag line. Rigorously applied that thought would remove about 130 years plus of government intrusion and laws.


17 posted on 07/31/2005 5:55:07 AM PDT by Modok
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To: police

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/browse



(I grew up in Brooklyn north)


18 posted on 07/31/2005 5:57:00 AM PDT by Brooklyn Kid
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To: police

A faith that may be denied before witnesses has no power. Belief in The Power that compells the Faith MUST have some manifestation or the "power" is not there.


19 posted on 07/31/2005 5:59:17 AM PDT by TalBlack
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To: antivenom

Heres something that will help you understand.
US group anti-terror fatwa called bogus.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=45509


20 posted on 07/31/2005 6:00:42 AM PDT by Luigi Vasellini (60% of Saudis, 58%of Iraqis, 55%of Kuwaitis,50% of Jordanians married 1st or 2nd cousins. LOL!!!)
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To: antivenom
It is not a religion

Do you have a definition for "religion" that includes Judaism and Christianity yet excludes Islam.

21 posted on 07/31/2005 6:01:37 AM PDT by MosesKnows
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To: TADSLOS
that Muslims are permitted to lie as a preventive measure against anticipated harm to one's self or fellow Muslims. This principle gives Muslims the liberty to lie under circumstances that they perceive as life threatening.

Sounds to me what we do in America do, or supported during the days of Nazi Germany in hiding the whereabouts of Jews such as Anne Frank.

22 posted on 07/31/2005 6:01:59 AM PDT by joesbucks
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To: antivenom
After reading this I will understand their lies and propaganda a bit better.

Thank you.

Btw, here are some article that contains numerous links that shed light on CAIR and it's background (support for terrorism):

CAIR Founded by "Islamic Terrorists?"

CAIR's Campaign of Lies

CAIR: 'Moderate' friends of terror

23 posted on 07/31/2005 6:05:30 AM PDT by USF (I see your Jihad and raise you a Crusade )
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To: All

This is why all the "appologies" and condemnations from various PR groups like CAIR are 100% meaningless.


24 posted on 07/31/2005 6:06:41 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE!)
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To: USF
Thanks, I heard a "rep" for CAIR on a morning talk show now and then...but the commercial I saw the other day...was new to me...I don't know how long they have been running in Houston. I travel alot and have a tendacy not to watch too much "local tv".

Thanks for the links, they will make interesting reading.

25 posted on 07/31/2005 6:08:43 AM PDT by antivenom (If your not living on the edge, you're taking up too much damn space!!!)
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To: police
Taqiyya and kitman: The role of Deception in Islamic terrorism

Free books by Edward Sell about Islam: Download here

26 posted on 07/31/2005 6:11:01 AM PDT by ViLaLuz (Stop the ACLU - Support the Public Expression of Religion Act 2005 - Call your congressmen.)
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To: MosesKnows; antivenom; Dark Skies; jan in Colorado
antivenom: It is not a religion

MosesKnows: Do you have a definition for "religion" that includes Judaism and Christianity yet excludes Islam.

Perhaps I would start with something that does not incorporate a political system (sharia) and whose founder did not set examples for mass murder and genocide to be used to achieve the ultimate goal of capturing land (Darul Harb vs Darul Islam)...
27 posted on 07/31/2005 6:15:57 AM PDT by USF (I see your Jihad and raise you a Crusade )
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To: antivenom

You're welcome. ;o)


28 posted on 07/31/2005 6:17:31 AM PDT by USF (I see your Jihad and raise you a Crusade )
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To: sirchtruth
All religions do this "justification" thing. It always comes down to the same sin, Pride...

Anybody can make a very generalized statement as fact but it is only an assumption unless you can cite examples. In your case you will need to cite examples from all religions to make it a statement of fact.
29 posted on 07/31/2005 6:17:42 AM PDT by Man50D
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To: antivenom

Actually it should be wiped from Earth
Nothing short of that will be sufficient


30 posted on 07/31/2005 6:17:48 AM PDT by 1903A3
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To: USF; Interesting Times; Diva One
Ping!
31 posted on 07/31/2005 6:19:46 AM PDT by The Shrew (www.swiftvets.com & www.wintersoldier.com - The Truth Shall Set YOU Free!)
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To: police

Who would expect Mohammad to condemn liars? as doing so would surely condemn himself.


32 posted on 07/31/2005 6:21:45 AM PDT by azhenfud (This tag line is currently experiencing technical difficulties. Please stand by.)
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To: Leapfrog

ping


33 posted on 07/31/2005 6:24:35 AM PDT by Modok
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To: Modok

Yup. I'm squarely with antivenom on this one.


34 posted on 07/31/2005 6:26:23 AM PDT by Michael Goldsberry (an enemy of islam -- Joe Boucher; Leapfrog; Dr.Zoidberg; Lazamataz; ...)
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To: police

bump to the library.


35 posted on 07/31/2005 6:27:03 AM PDT by Les_Miserables
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To: police

No only can lie...it's their sacred duty to do so to further
the conquest..

imo


36 posted on 07/31/2005 6:28:33 AM PDT by joesnuffy (The state always has solutions to the problems it creates...more freedom will never be a solution)
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To: police

How to understand CAIR's function in the Islamic attempt to conquer America and the western world..


37 posted on 07/31/2005 6:39:21 AM PDT by joesnuffy (The state always has solutions to the problems it creates...more freedom will never be a solution)
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To: Man50D
In your case you will need to cite examples from all religions to make it a statement of fact.

600+ laws ontop of God's. Who blows up abortion clinics?

By the definition of RELIGION itself it's fact...Man trying to justify himself to God.

Don't even think you're going to make a case for any religion that doesn't try to justify what it does, and the extremist are in ALL religions!

Just note that "justification" does not have to equal fanaticism.

38 posted on 07/31/2005 6:52:07 AM PDT by sirchtruth (Words Mean Things...)
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To: USF
Perhaps I would start with something

You could, but then you would be wrong.

39 posted on 07/31/2005 7:06:25 AM PDT by MosesKnows
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To: police

ping


40 posted on 07/31/2005 7:27:44 AM PDT by trailboss800
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To: sirchtruth
600+ laws ontop of God's. Who blows up abortion clinics? 600+ laws ontop of God's. Who blows up abortion clinics? By the definition of RELIGION itself it's fact...Man trying to justify himself to God. Don't even think you're going to make a case for any religion that doesn't try to justify what it does, and the extremist are in ALL religions! Just note that "justification" does not have to equal fanaticism.

You are forgetting one big difference between those who blow up abortion clinics and the terrorists. People such as Eric Rudolph were not trying to destroy the United States and he certainly doesn't represent all Christians. All Christians, Jews, Buddhists etc... do not have a precept in their religion to destroy peole of other faiths as evidenced by the fact they are not trying to destroy whole societies. The terrorists who attacked us on 9/11/01 and those who attacked London want to destroy the United States and all Americans. Islam does want to convert or destroy all non-muslims as stated in the following article:

Islamic Scholar Warns U.S. of 'Two-Faced' Muslims

You still haven't cited specific examples of other religions who have a precept to convert and or destroy people of other religions and countries.
41 posted on 07/31/2005 7:29:37 AM PDT by Man50D
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To: USF

good article...all Americans need to know this as they watch our fawning MSM and our naive political leaders as they talk about "moderate" muslim leaders and the "religion of peace"


42 posted on 07/31/2005 7:37:57 AM PDT by silverleaf (Fasten your seat belts- it's going to be a BUMPY ride.)
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To: TADSLOS
In other words, they have the same rule sets as liberals, with just a bit more unshrouded violence towards Christians and Jews.

You got it! No wonder libs are so respectful of islam and so scornful of other beliefs..
43 posted on 07/31/2005 7:39:24 AM PDT by silverleaf (Fasten your seat belts- it's going to be a BUMPY ride.)
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To: MosesKnows
YEAH...I do...

Religion comes from the word religare, which means "to restrain" or "tie back"...same word from which we get the word legislation. Religion, then, "RELIES" on a code of thought and behavior that instructs us how to behave when we have lost our way—something that can re-binds us, or ties us back once our fetters have been broken. Judaism and Christianity RELY on the Bible, and rely on the 10 Commandments...this is the mortor of the Judea/Christian religion...it doesn't change it does get twisted to meet daily goals like lying, or killing or maiming other people because of their FAITH.

To me Islam is a faith...with immas (sp) and such preaching to the faithless (remember the lost and lonely muslim youth in Europe), hate and murder...preaching fatwahs...fatwah is a type of faith that can only be backed by a CULT.

Islam is not a religion..it is a CULT that spun off of religion centuries ago and currently has faithless people bending to the evil will for the destruction of the Jews and non-believers...it is a Cult that has convinced many followers that it is a "living document"...that the words can be bent and changed upon a whim...upon a goal...to deceive, undermine or destroy anyone NOT following their cult's faith. Even other Muslims who don't engage in their "current" goals.

I do not accept Islam as a religion...it is a cult based upon the Bible...from centuries ago.

44 posted on 07/31/2005 7:55:08 AM PDT by antivenom (If your not living on the edge, you're taking up too much damn space!!!)
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To: sirchtruth
Who blows up abortion clinics?

People who are willing to use violence as part of civil disobedience to a practice they consider to be murder of innocents.

Now, who blows up or slits the throats of Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists and even Shiites in their places of worship, babies in strollers at pizza parlors, toddlers and their babysitters in nursery houses, teenagers on a beach, entire families in their homes, children in their school, hostages in maternity hospitals, thousands of people in their work places, thousands of passengers on airliner, hundreds of passengers on train and subways...?

Jesus Christ never said "take matters into your own hands and blow up abortion clinics where the people within mock God's laws.." He did say that those folks will face God someday, with some 'splaining to do.

However, Mohammed gave his believer/killers a Koran full of explicit directives to use violence to advance his ideology, and full approval to kill on earth in the name of a deity he called "Allah".

So now, here in the past century alone, let's compare numbers of killers, numbers of victims, and the ideology of the killers and how and where it DIVERGES from or CONFORMS to, their "religion", please.

And Who is most likely to blow up YOU, and for what cause?
45 posted on 07/31/2005 7:56:01 AM PDT by silverleaf (Fasten your seat belts- it's going to be a BUMPY ride.)
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To: police; All
According to this verse a Muslim can pretend to befriend infidels (in violation of the teachings of Islam) and display adherence with their unbelief to prevent them from harming him.

Islam's handbook thus provides a methodology to set up covert agents as advance troops for armies of conquest.

How can anybody consider this a religion? It is a militaristic ideology, nodifferent from Communism, but with a far more clever means of gaining and keeping the faithful.

46 posted on 07/31/2005 8:05:37 AM PDT by montag813
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To: police

I do not trust Muslims. My default position is that they are lying. They must convince me otherwise, and that's not going to be easy. I do not trust these wackos. They can all shove it.


47 posted on 07/31/2005 8:07:24 AM PDT by SALChamps03
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To: MosesKnows
Such a well thought out and indepth rebuttal.

Do you deny islam has a political system (sharia) as one of its fundamental cornerstones?

Do you agree with sharia?

Do you think sharia is compatible with democracy?

Ever lived under sharia? (I have as an expat Dhimmi)

How do you propose to stop it?

48 posted on 07/31/2005 8:17:24 AM PDT by USF (I see your Jihad and raise you a Crusade )
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To: USF
I hate to stick my nose in here. Because this thread is such an eye opener. But, in the bible there are passages that are hard to reconcile with our current understanding about mass murder and capturing land. I am thinking about the story of King Saul and David.

Perhaps someone can put a spin on this that isn't so difficult to accept in the light of modern accepted behavior.

49 posted on 07/31/2005 8:18:19 AM PDT by dalight
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To: USF

BUMP!


50 posted on 07/31/2005 8:21:36 AM PDT by eleni121 ('Thou hast conquered, O Galilean!' (Julian the Apostate))
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