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NYCLU sues city over subway searches
NYNewsday ^ | August 4, 2005 | Joshua Robin and Dan Janison

Posted on 08/04/2005 7:34:11 AM PDT by bobsunshine

The New York Civil Liberties Union will file suit against the city Thursday to keep police from searching the bags of passengers entering the subway, organization lawyers said.

The suit, which will be filed in U.S. District Court in Manhattan, will claim that the two-week old policy violates constitutional guarantees of equal protection and prohibitions against unlawful searches and seizures, while doing almost nothing to shield the city from terrorism.

It argues that the measure also allows the possibility for racial profiling, even though officers are ordered to randomly screen passengers. "While concerns about terrorism of course justify -- indeed, require -- aggressive police tactics, those concerns cannot justify the Police Department's unprecedented policy of subjecting millions of innocent people to suspicionless searches," states the suit, a partial copy of which was provided to Newsday.

Names of the plaintiffs -- subway riders who object to the searches -- were redacted in the copy, but are expected to be released Thursday morning.

A city Law Department spokeswoman said that since officials had not yet received the suit, she could not yet comment. The city is named as a defendant, along with the police department and Police Commissioner Ray Kelly. Thursday, before the suit was released, Kelly said that the searches were "just one more layer, one more tool." "No one thinks that will be the solution, but it does give a potential terrorist something more to think about," he said.

The civil liberties union has criticized the searches as over-reaching since Mayor Michael Bloomberg announced the measure on July 21, after terrorists targeted London's mass transit system for the second time in two weeks. It also calls the stops ineffective because terrorists can walk through entrances where police are not screening.

(Excerpt) Read more at nynewsday.com ...


TOPICS: Extended News; News/Current Events; US: New York
KEYWORDS: aclu; bloomberg; homelandsecurity; lawsuit; nysubway; profiling; searches
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Also see the article in the NYTimes from: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/04/nyregion/04search.html?pagewanted=print

And post: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1456667/posts

Some differences in the articles: In NYNewsday, the wording about the council members asking the officers to note the ethnic identity of people searched while the next sentence says about more Arabs should be searched.

From the NY Times article, the asking for the ethnic identity of people searched was done so they could show that the officers where not profiling. And then about State Assemblyman Dov Hikind, a Brooklyn Democrat, said, "There is a terrorist profile for a potential suicide bomber, and it's not the 75-year-old grandmother with sloping shoulders, who has an oversized tote bag firmly tucked under her arm".

Seems NYNewsday didn't get the entire story, only pieces they wanted.

1 posted on 08/04/2005 7:34:12 AM PDT by bobsunshine
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To: bobsunshine

Personally, what I'd like to see happen to all these nuts is for them, as well as their immediate family members, be required to ride the subways on a daily basis and so when something happens, they'll be one of the first to reap the benefits of their hard-won efforts!


2 posted on 08/04/2005 7:36:03 AM PDT by Paved Paradise
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To: bobsunshine

I'm calling them the ICLU from now on....

the Islamofasict Civil Liberties Union


3 posted on 08/04/2005 7:36:07 AM PDT by finnman69 (cum puella incedit minore medio corpore sub quo manifestus globus, inflammare animos)
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To: bobsunshine
Number of weeks ACLU has remained silent about the latest example of abuse of women in Third World: 2
4 posted on 08/04/2005 7:43:36 AM PDT by pabianice
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To: finnman69

They are jihadist enabling scum. The ACLU turned down
milllions of $ from The Ford Foundation (another
terror enabler) because they wouldn't background
check their employees for terror links.


5 posted on 08/04/2005 7:45:34 AM PDT by Lt. Brickley
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To: Paved Paradise

I like your idea. In times like these, I view such lawsuits as "aiding the enemy."


6 posted on 08/04/2005 7:45:56 AM PDT by MizSterious (Now, if only we could convince them all to put on their bomb-vests and meet in Mecca...)
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To: Paved Paradise

Personally, I'd like to see you pulled over every day and have a cop try to trick you into consenting to a search of your vehicle.


7 posted on 08/04/2005 7:46:28 AM PDT by Haru Hara Haruko
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To: Paved Paradise

Subways are not for the elites. So why do they care about those who have to use mass transit. They ride around in limos paid with the money won from litigation of the Boy Scouts and cross removals all over this country. They must be held responsible when the inevitable happens.


8 posted on 08/04/2005 7:48:28 AM PDT by BigFinn
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To: bobsunshine

while doing almost nothing to shield the city from terrorism.


"Almost nothing". Isn't that better than "almost SOMEthing" in this case?

The terrorist thugs are cheering and laughing at idiots like this who just make killing a little easier.


9 posted on 08/04/2005 7:50:18 AM PDT by Just Lori (I'm too tired to play tag.)
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To: BigFinn

You are absolutely right about that! They act like they are one with the little guy but it's all smoke and mirrors. Just like Oprah getting all upset over the evil salesclerks who refused to keep the store open late so she could by her Hermes scarf. They don't have cooks and maids to do their work when THEY come home so they like to leave work on time. Duh!


10 posted on 08/04/2005 7:50:39 AM PDT by Paved Paradise
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To: bobsunshine

if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then you can't profile it as a duck and you can't search it to see if it is in fact a duck. you must let ducks do what ducks do.


11 posted on 08/04/2005 7:52:37 AM PDT by beekay
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To: bobsunshine

What is unreasonable about searching for explosives of those who choose to ride the subway?


12 posted on 08/04/2005 7:57:22 AM PDT by rollo tomasi (Working hard to pay for deadbeats and corrupt politicians)
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To: bobsunshine
We need politicians that can ignore all this PC crap and make laws that work.

I look slightly middle-eastern and if it means cops/security look into my bag for 2 seconds I can live with it. It's better than having your head blown off by a "muslim male between the ages of 17 and 40" because the cops can't profile.

I ride the subway every day and see very few people that meet the terrorist profile. If it inconveniences 1 in 100 people it is not a big deal. And if the muslime does not consent to a search they should have someone to follow him.
13 posted on 08/04/2005 7:57:58 AM PDT by varyouga
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To: bobsunshine
An if these lefties think muslimes don't profile they should go to one of the muslime hellholes and see how long they last. A white person walking down the street in Gaza or Somalia can count the seconds on their fingers before they get shot.

When muslimes start accepting other religions in their countries I might accept theirs. When they stop profiling I might think about stopping.
14 posted on 08/04/2005 8:03:12 AM PDT by varyouga
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To: Haru Hara Haruko

Well a search of a vehicle would be quite time consuming, versus a quick search of a body for a suicide BOMB!!! I don't like this stuff either and wonder where it leads but when I have fellow Freepers sending me private emails of actual xrays of someone they know who has had nails from a nail bomb resting hither-dither inside their freaking pelvis, I guess I can suck it up and let someone wand me or whatever.


15 posted on 08/04/2005 8:09:33 AM PDT by Paved Paradise
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To: bobsunshine
Hmm I'd rather them (NYC) sued for wasting money , taxpayer time, police resources, and insulting NY's intelligence. If that were illegal they'd be getting sued every day ;)

But judging from the posts here, people actually believe this is a "good" thing to do as opposed to a waste of time and money that only accomplishes to make the none thinkers out there feel like the city is doing something in the WOT.

Actually you know what would help the WOT? If the police went in every one's house and searched for contraband. Yes it's a little inconvenient, but it'd just be a one time thing and they'd get all the terrorist living here in one swoop. Seriously if you can't trade a minor inconvenience while cops and SWAT look through your underwear drawer you are either an apologist or terrorist.
16 posted on 08/04/2005 8:12:30 AM PDT by tfecw (Vote Democrat, It's easier than working)
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To: Haru Hara Haruko


Please pause a moment, reflect back, and take the
following multiple choice test. The events are actual
Events from history. They actually happened!

Do you remember?

1. 1968 Bobby Kennedy was shot and killed by

a. Superman
b. Jay Leno
c. Harry Potter
d. a Muslim male extremist between the ages of 17 and
40

2. In 1972 at the Munich Olympics, athletes were
kidnapped and massacred by

a. Olga Corbett
b. Sitting Bull
c. Arnold Schwarzenegger
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of
17 and 40

3. In 1979, the US embassy in Iran was taken over by:

a. Lost Norwegians
b. Elvis
c. A tour bus full of 80-year-old women
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of
17 and 40

4. During the 1980's a number of Americans were
kidnapped in Lebanon by:

a. John Dillinger
b. The King of Sweden
c. The Boy Scouts
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of
17 and 40

5. In 1983, the US Marine barracks in Beirut was blown
up by:

a. A pizza delivery boy
b. Pee Wee Herman
c. Geraldo Rivera
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of
17 and 40

6. In 1985 the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked
and a 70 year old American passenger was murdered and
thrown overboard in his wheelchair by:

a. The Smurfs
b. Davy Jones
c. The Little Mermaid
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of
17 and 40

7. In 1985 TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens, and
a US Navy diver trying to rescue passengers was
murdered by:

a. Captain Kidd
b. Charles Lindberg
c. Mother Teresa
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of
17 and 40

8. In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by:

a. Scooby Doo
b. The Tooth Fairy
c. Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of
17 and 40

9. In 1993 the World Trade Center was bombed the first
time by:

a. Richard Simmons
b. Grandma Moses
c. Michael Jordan
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of
17 and 40

10. In 1998, the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania
were bombed by:

a. Mr. Rogers
b. Hillary Clinton, to distract attention from Wild
Bill's women problems
c. The World Wrestling Federation
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of
17 and 40

11. On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked; two were
used as missiles to take out the World Trade Centers
and of the remaining two, one crashed into the US
Pentagon and the other was diverted and crashed by the
passengers.
Thousands of people were killed by:

a. Bugs Bunny, Wiley E. Coyote, Daffy Duck and Elmer
Fudd
b. The Supreme Court of Florida
c. Mr. Bean
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of
17 and 40

12. In 2002 the United States fought a war in
Afghanistan against:

a. Enron
b. The Lutheran Church
c. The NFL
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of
17 and 40

13. In 2002 reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and
murdered by:

a. Bonnie and Clyde
b. Captain Kangaroo
c. Billy Graham
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of
17 and 40

Nope, ..I really don't see a pattern here to justify
profiling, do you? So, to ensure we Americans never
offend anyone, particularly fanatics intent on killing
us, airport security screeners will no longer be
allowed to profile certain people. They must conduct
random searches of 80-year-old women, little kids,
airline pilots with proper identification, secret
agents who are members of the President's security
detail, 85-year old Congressmen with metal hips, and
Medal of Honor winning and former Governor Joe Foss,
but leave Muslim Males between the ages 17 and 40
alone lest they be guilty of profiling.

Let's send this to as many people as we can so that
the Gloria Aldreds and other dunder-headed attorneys
along with Federal Justices that want to thwart common
sense, feel doubly ashamed of themselves -- if they
have any such sense. As the writer of the award
winning story "Forrest Gump" so aptly put it, "Stupid
is as stupid does."

Come on people wake up!!!


17 posted on 08/04/2005 8:12:58 AM PDT by Sterco
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To: Sterco
Come on people wake up!!!

Ok, so in a sane world, we would round up and deport all Moslem illegals, and review the visa and naturalization status of the legal ones, and we would have real border security.

In the world of Hom3Lamer "security," we frisk Christians at random, violating the Constitution, thereby reducing the value of the very thing we are defending. Yeah, that'll work.

18 posted on 08/04/2005 8:18:38 AM PDT by Haru Hara Haruko
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To: rollo tomasi
What is unreasonable about searching for explosives of those who choose to ride the subway?

This is: The policeman doing the searching cannot articulate a reason to suspect you of being a terrorist, or any other kind of criminal for that matter.

19 posted on 08/04/2005 8:20:52 AM PDT by Haru Hara Haruko
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To: Sterco

19, that is the number

I know Louie Farakkan, NYCLU and Al qaeda can somehow add up to the number 19, have spaceships and make this the white mans fault.

I know it has to add to 19 somehow....


20 posted on 08/04/2005 8:33:12 AM PDT by edcoil (Reality doesn't say much - doesn't need too)
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To: Haru Hara Haruko
Then lets get rid of the screening of bags in airports, I guess everyone at the airport is an accused terrorist won't you say. Yeah, that's the ticket.

Think of the convenience not standing in those lines going through metal detectors too.
21 posted on 08/04/2005 8:43:52 AM PDT by rollo tomasi (Working hard to pay for deadbeats and corrupt politicians)
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To: Sterco
I picked "D" for all of them except number 10, for which I picked "B."

Do I win anything?

22 posted on 08/04/2005 8:51:59 AM PDT by flada (Y2K? What are you selling, chicken or sex jelly?)
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To: Haru Hara Haruko; Darksheare; meowmeow; Constitution Day; 4mycountry; Poohbah; Grampa Dave; ...
Well, first off, they can... Driving isn't a right, it is a priviledge in all states. They won't because it's not feasible.

Riding a Subway isn't a right, it's a priviledge, you want to ride, get searched. Just like an airport.

Where you have a large congregation of people in a small area, I would feel much safer to have these searches than not.

Sorry you feel violated, maybe you have something to hide?

Your fredoms have not been violated in anyway for the search. What right was taken away? Nothing. And if you are embarrassed about the contents in your bags, perhaps they need to be left at home.

23 posted on 08/04/2005 8:58:09 AM PDT by Zavien Doombringer (Have you gotten your Viking Kittie Patch today? http://www.visualops.com/patch.html)
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To: rollo tomasi
Apples and oranges my friend.

With the security measures in place at the airport things can be accomplished such as finding bombs in checked luggage and what not. It's also easier to secure an area where 42,000 people fly into a day (number of people in Regan National in 2000) through a few check points as opposed to the 4.5 million that use the subway daily in NYC
The way these searches are being held and conducted in NYC is nothing than to find the most gullible city and push another inch towards a police state/worker's paradise. The rest should soon follow (think NYC smoking ban, these searches are "for the children")

But you're right, arriving at your subway stop 2 hours before hand is a small price to pay for false security...votes...freedom.
24 posted on 08/04/2005 8:59:17 AM PDT by tfecw (Vote Democrat, It's easier than working)
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To: Haru Hara Haruko
Hmmm, I do not feel my rights are violated if I am searched. Now, if my home was invaded and searched with out cause/warrant, my rights would be violated.

If it were Christians that were doing the killing and bombing, would there be such tolerance or defending the Christian?

25 posted on 08/04/2005 9:01:31 AM PDT by Zavien Doombringer (Have you gotten your Viking Kittie Patch today? http://www.visualops.com/patch.html)
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To: Haru Hara Haruko

By order of the Empire, Pull Over!
26 posted on 08/04/2005 9:02:10 AM PDT by Darksheare ("Just because I have a paper heart, doesn't mean tearing it is okay." -The man with the candy face)
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To: tfecw; Darksheare; meowmeow; Constitution Day; 4mycountry; Poohbah; Grampa Dave; ...
Hmmm, it isn't like you are carrying a complete luggage set through the subway... so 2 hours is ridiculous! Most high schools have this sytem inplace and they do not have to go to school 2 hours before class...you sound a bit paranoid too...
27 posted on 08/04/2005 9:05:45 AM PDT by Zavien Doombringer (Have you gotten your Viking Kittie Patch today? http://www.visualops.com/patch.html)
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To: tfecw; Darksheare; meowmeow; Constitution Day; 4mycountry; Poohbah; Grampa Dave; ...
Hmmm, it isn't like you are carrying a complete luggage set through the subway... so 2 hours is ridiculous! Most high schools have this sytem inplace and they do not have to go to school 2 hours before class...you sound a bit paranoid too...
28 posted on 08/04/2005 9:05:52 AM PDT by Zavien Doombringer (Have you gotten your Viking Kittie Patch today? http://www.visualops.com/patch.html)
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To: Haru Hara Haruko

Yes he can, there isn't any constitutional right being violated...


29 posted on 08/04/2005 9:08:05 AM PDT by Zavien Doombringer (Have you gotten your Viking Kittie Patch today? http://www.visualops.com/patch.html)
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To: Zavien Doombringer; Haru Hara Haruko
"Hmmm, it isn't like you are carrying a complete luggage set through the subway"

Gotcha, well when DC follows suit and begins to lie to the citizens and give them the false sense of security they are so desperately crying out for, I will be carrying a full set of luggage.
Of course that's after I take the cab and stand in the security measures (after all driving in cabs regulated by the city is a privilege, not a right), walk to the Metro station utilizing the city side walk with a pause at the side walk security stop (after all walking on city streets is a privilege not a right) then onto the Metro.

Nice try with the paranoia comment too. Are you going to allude to me being anti-christian like you did with Haru Hara Haruko, or just leave it at that?

I think I've been pretty clear why I'm not a fan of lying to the people of NYC...whoops sorry, we are calling that "securing" the subway now.
30 posted on 08/04/2005 9:14:13 AM PDT by tfecw (Vote Democrat, It's easier than working)
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To: bobsunshine
The subway searches are stupid and pointless:

They are barely seaching anyone, and if you want you can just walk away before you are searched.

Let's say I am a terrorist, I decide to get on the subway to bomb it. I walk down to the platform. Chances are I walk right on and bomb the thing. Let's say I am stopped... I say "I don't consent to be searched" and I turn around and walk away. I walk 10 blocks to the next station, and repeat the process.

These searches will not, in any way, impede terrorists from their goals.

This is another example of the government trying to make us feel safer while not doing their jobs.

The surest and safest way to protect the "fort" is to keep the invaders outside of its walls. That is why forts have walls.

We should throw out all muslim non-citizens, and bar them all from entry unless they have totally complete background checks, sponsors, etc.

Instead, we let the enemy inside the gates and then harass ourselves.

31 posted on 08/04/2005 9:15:48 AM PDT by Rodney King (No, we can't all just get along.)
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To: Haru Hara Haruko
Both are mass public transport systems. Both require the choice to use them. Both are not rights just privileges. Both are potential targets for terrorist.

Take a taxi, bike or car if you don't want your bags checked.

Before the "oh it will take a long time excuse" when I lived in Japan my 70 year old housekeeper rode her bike 23 miles to get to work. If there was a mass public transport system I doubt she would care less if they took a couple of seconds to check her bags.

Otherwise what is so unreasonable about checking bags to have the privilege to ride on a PUBLIC subway system?

The "KGB" will need reasonable probable cause if you do ride your OWN bike or car.

If you use the subway just be sure to hide the drugs on the body and it should be Ok.
32 posted on 08/04/2005 9:19:42 AM PDT by rollo tomasi (Working hard to pay for deadbeats and corrupt politicians)
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To: Stingray51

bump


33 posted on 08/04/2005 9:20:30 AM PDT by Rodney King (No, we can't all just get along.)
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To: tfecw
What's the lie? They say they were going to search, they are searching and no one has been fooled...

After all, you can drive your own car or walk to your destination.

You didn't mention anything about Christian, or bashing religion. Haru did...

34 posted on 08/04/2005 9:28:25 AM PDT by Zavien Doombringer (Have you gotten your Viking Kittie Patch today? http://www.visualops.com/patch.html)
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To: rollo tomasi
"The "KGB" will need reasonable probable cause if you do ride your OWN bike or car."

Wait a sec....you choose to drive your "own" car, driving myself is a privilege not a right. I also use public roads and pay taxes to the public to drive "my own" car (sort of like i do for the metro)

It seems like driving my own personal car meets the same criteria you are using for "securing" subway. Actually my house meets the same requirements.

Are my children going to have the same argument with someone when cops in NYC are going to be taken off murder cases, drug cases, etc and told to spend all day going door to door seeing if people are dumb enough yet to submit to a search of the house?

(Of course refusal to allow entry will make you an apologist or someone with something to hide. What's 30 minutes to run a few dogs in your house, I'm sure you Japanese house keeper wouldn't mind)
35 posted on 08/04/2005 9:29:09 AM PDT by tfecw (Vote Democrat, It's easier than working)
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To: tfecw
Ok, you are taking it way over the edge...

You do have the protection of the constitution to improper search and seizure of YOUR PROPERTY.

If you use the CITIES mode of transportation, you have to follow the CITIES rules. or stick to your own and drive your car on city and state roads using THIER RULES. The only place you have sanctuary is on YOUR PROPERTY.

You are comparing apples to oranges.

36 posted on 08/04/2005 9:33:59 AM PDT by Zavien Doombringer (Have you gotten your Viking Kittie Patch today? http://www.visualops.com/patch.html)
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To: Zavien Doombringer
The lie is the false sense of security.
So the bad guys either skip the check point and go onto a new station, or detonates at the security check point. Either way isn't going to be pretty and at the end of the day what do you have to show for it other than wasted time and money. This will definitely be used to raise even more taxes in NYC and is the perfect opportunity to justify milking the people of more money. The "politicians" will say see no bombings, this stuff works, then proceed to sell the people talismans that protect against tiger attacks (funded by tax dollars of course)

My apologies for the Christian comment. I missed where he mentioned it the first time through.
37 posted on 08/04/2005 9:37:35 AM PDT by tfecw (Vote Democrat, It's easier than working)
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To: tfecw
The false sense of security, is it for the government or for the populace?

I for one believe that no violation of rights has been commited. However you have to be honest in what we are looking for. Being "pc" about it, is not the right way to do it. We have to profile. Statictics say so... Timothy McViegh was an only exception...

38 posted on 08/04/2005 9:41:10 AM PDT by Zavien Doombringer (Have you gotten your Viking Kittie Patch today? http://www.visualops.com/patch.html)
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To: Zavien Doombringer
Ok, you are taking it way over the edge...

I agree I am, that was more unfair sarcasm then seriousness (I'll take up arms long before I stand at the city sidewalk security checkpoint):) I definitely don't want to give them impression I'm wearing a tin foil hat. ;) I just find it very scary when you start letting the government take an inch because they don't stop.

You do have the protection of the constitution to improper search and seizure of YOUR PROPERTY.
Hmm I should also be able to have a gun on my own property in NYC, DC, San Fran, etc.
39 posted on 08/04/2005 9:42:38 AM PDT by tfecw (Vote Democrat, It's easier than working)
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To: tfecw
A policeman needs probable cause to search your vehicle. Specific laws are on the books already. If the "KGB" abuse this a good lawyer will take them to task.

If anyone who knows their rights will ask for what is the cause of the search and where is your search warrant before your car and home is searched.

If there is a certain law that says you need probable cause to search your bags before you enter the subway or airport I would like to see it. I will agree with you then.

If not, lobby your State congresscritter to write one if you think it's abusive.
40 posted on 08/04/2005 9:43:01 AM PDT by rollo tomasi (Working hard to pay for deadbeats and corrupt politicians)
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To: bobsunshine

There's a simple solution to this that seems to escape the powers that be here.

Turn the mass transit system over to private companies. Get the government out of it altogether.

Then the private companies can search anyone and everyone they desire before getting on their "PRIVATE" transit system.

The ACLU or the NYCLU wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

No Government, not alleged infraction of rights.

At least according to all of the business people around here, this would work. Profiling would then be ok too because it's a private company and not publicly owned.


41 posted on 08/04/2005 9:45:39 AM PDT by Leatherneck_MT (3-7-77 (No that's not a Date))
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To: tfecw
Hmm I should also be able to have a gun on my own property in NYC, DC, San Fran, etc.

That's why I live in Virginia, a priviledge I do not want to give up :)

42 posted on 08/04/2005 9:49:29 AM PDT by Zavien Doombringer (Have you gotten your Viking Kittie Patch today? http://www.visualops.com/patch.html)
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To: Zavien Doombringer
The false sense of security, is it for the government or for the populace?
Good question. I think it's a little of both. NYC gets to do several things with this. The first is it's a cheap way for votes. They get to point at the security measures and say we are doing something.

This also protects them in a few years if/when (god forbid) some other POS terrorist detonates in NYC. The government can use this as a get out of jail free card. Instead of letting the people arm themselves and tossing out all the trash (radicals, illegals, criminals), in what would be career suicide in their liberal bastion, they can say, "We had check points, we were just out smarted."
43 posted on 08/04/2005 9:49:55 AM PDT by tfecw (Vote Democrat, It's easier than working)
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To: Zavien Doombringer
Driving isn't a right, it is a priviledge in all states.

What do you mean by priviledge? Are there other privileges, like, say, gun ownership, that the government is empowered by our Constituution to restrict?

44 posted on 08/04/2005 9:57:08 AM PDT by Haru Hara Haruko
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To: Zavien Doombringer

Do you mean to say that my rights are enumerated in the Constitution?


45 posted on 08/04/2005 10:01:47 AM PDT by Haru Hara Haruko
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To: rollo tomasi
Then lets get rid of the screening of bags in airports

When we stop allowing young moslem males to fly without extensive checks, we could readily do that. Are you against that happening?

Do you know how ineffective the bag screening was when it was tested? It found approximately ZERO of the weapons that were intentionally concealed, and less than half that were placed in bags with no attempt to conceal them.

46 posted on 08/04/2005 10:07:08 AM PDT by Haru Hara Haruko
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To: Haru Hara Haruko
The state gave you the privilege of driving on the Public Roads - through a license. It can be taken away from you by the state (i.e. DWI, not paying for tags, etc.).

Gun ownership is protected by the Constitution, but it can be restricted by the State (gun laws, etc.)

I see no problem in searching the bags if you want to use Public transit. And I think we should do more "social" profiling, that is, the Muslim social group of men between the ages of 17 and 34.

I also think we should install more cameras in the Public Areas. This is not a violation of your privacy since they are used in Public (not private) areas.
47 posted on 08/04/2005 10:29:02 AM PDT by bobsunshine
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To: bobsunshine

IF I pay my taxes and commit no egregious offenses, the state cannot take away my drivers license. Moreover, if I am not operating a vehicle, the state has no power at all to restrict my travel.

Are you saying that rights not enumerated in the Constitution are mere privileges?


48 posted on 08/04/2005 10:40:03 AM PDT by Haru Hara Haruko
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To: bobsunshine

Readily available lasers easily destroy CCD sensors. Put up all the cameras you like.


49 posted on 08/04/2005 10:41:04 AM PDT by Haru Hara Haruko
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To: bobsunshine

Oh, and while your genius legl mind is at work, please explain how "resticted" differs from "infringed."

Or are you one of those people who think there are no unconstitutional and illegitimate laws?


50 posted on 08/04/2005 11:13:00 AM PDT by Haru Hara Haruko
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