NYCLU sues city over subway searches

NYNewsday ^ | August 4, 2005 | Joshua Robin and Dan Janison

[bobsunshine]

The New York Civil Liberties Union will file suit against the city Thursday to keep police from searching the bags of passengers entering the subway, organization lawyers said.

The suit, which will be filed in U.S. District Court in Manhattan, will claim that the two-week old policy violates constitutional guarantees of equal protection and prohibitions against unlawful searches and seizures, while doing almost nothing to shield the city from terrorism.

It argues that the measure also allows the possibility for racial profiling, even though officers are ordered to randomly screen passengers. "While concerns about terrorism of course justify -- indeed, require -- aggressive police tactics, those concerns cannot justify the Police Department's unprecedented policy of subjecting millions of innocent people to suspicionless searches," states the suit, a partial copy of which was provided to Newsday.

Names of the plaintiffs -- subway riders who object to the searches -- were redacted in the copy, but are expected to be released Thursday morning.

A city Law Department spokeswoman said that since officials had not yet received the suit, she could not yet comment. The city is named as a defendant, along with the police department and Police Commissioner Ray Kelly. Thursday, before the suit was released, Kelly said that the searches were "just one more layer, one more tool." "No one thinks that will be the solution, but it does give a potential terrorist something more to think about," he said.

The civil liberties union has criticized the searches as over-reaching since Mayor Michael Bloomberg announced the measure on July 21, after terrorists targeted London's mass transit system for the second time in two weeks. It also calls the stops ineffective because terrorists can walk through entrances where police are not screening.

[rollo tomasi]

Then lets get rid of the screening of bags in airports, I guess everyone at the airport is an accused terrorist won't you say. Yeah, that's the ticket.

Think of the convenience not standing in those lines going through metal detectors too.

[flada]

I picked "D" for all of them except number 10, for which I picked "B."

Do I win anything?

[Zavien Doombringer]

Well, first off, they can... Driving isn't a right, it is a priviledge in all states. They won't because it's not feasible.

Riding a Subway isn't a right, it's a priviledge, you want to ride, get searched. Just like an airport.

Where you have a large congregation of people in a small area, I would feel much safer to have these searches than not.

Sorry you feel violated, maybe you have something to hide?

Your fredoms have not been violated in anyway for the search. What right was taken away? Nothing. And if you are embarrassed about the contents in your bags, perhaps they need to be left at home.

[tfecw]

Apples and oranges my friend.

With the security measures in place at the airport things can be accomplished such as finding bombs in checked luggage and what not. It's also easier to secure an area where 42,000 people fly into a day (number of people in Regan National in 2000) through a few check points as opposed to the 4.5 million that use the subway daily in NYC
The way these searches are being held and conducted in NYC is nothing than to find the most gullible city and push another inch towards a police state/worker's paradise. The rest should soon follow (think NYC smoking ban, these searches are "for the children")

But you're right, arriving at your subway stop 2 hours before hand is a small price to pay for false security...votes...freedom.

[Zavien Doombringer]

Hmmm, I do not feel my rights are violated if I am searched. Now, if my home was invaded and searched with out cause/warrant, my rights would be violated.

If it were Christians that were doing the killing and bombing, would there be such tolerance or defending the Christian?

[Darksheare]

By order of the Empire, Pull Over!

[Zavien Doombringer]

Hmmm, it isn't like you are carrying a complete luggage set through the subway... so 2 hours is ridiculous! Most high schools have this sytem inplace and they do not have to go to school 2 hours before class...you sound a bit paranoid too...

[Zavien Doombringer]

Hmmm, it isn't like you are carrying a complete luggage set through the subway... so 2 hours is ridiculous! Most high schools have this sytem inplace and they do not have to go to school 2 hours before class...you sound a bit paranoid too...

[Zavien Doombringer]

Yes he can, there isn't any constitutional right being violated...

[tfecw]

"Hmmm, it isn't like you are carrying a complete luggage set through the subway"

Gotcha, well when DC follows suit and begins to lie to the citizens and give them the false sense of security they are so desperately crying out for, I will be carrying a full set of luggage.
Of course that's after I take the cab and stand in the security measures (after all driving in cabs regulated by the city is a privilege, not a right), walk to the Metro station utilizing the city side walk with a pause at the side walk security stop (after all walking on city streets is a privilege not a right) then onto the Metro.

Nice try with the paranoia comment too. Are you going to allude to me being anti-christian like you did with Haru Hara Haruko, or just leave it at that?

I think I've been pretty clear why I'm not a fan of lying to the people of NYC...whoops sorry, we are calling that "securing" the subway now.

[Rodney King]

The subway searches are stupid and pointless:

They are barely seaching anyone, and if you want you can just walk away before you are searched.

Let's say I am a terrorist, I decide to get on the subway to bomb it. I walk down to the platform. Chances are I walk right on and bomb the thing. Let's say I am stopped... I say "I don't consent to be searched" and I turn around and walk away. I walk 10 blocks to the next station, and repeat the process.

These searches will not, in any way, impede terrorists from their goals.

This is another example of the government trying to make us feel safer while not doing their jobs.

The surest and safest way to protect the "fort" is to keep the invaders outside of its walls. That is why forts have walls.

We should throw out all muslim non-citizens, and bar them all from entry unless they have totally complete background checks, sponsors, etc.

Instead, we let the enemy inside the gates and then harass ourselves.

[rollo tomasi]

Both are mass public transport systems. Both require the choice to use them. Both are not rights just privileges. Both are potential targets for terrorist.

Take a taxi, bike or car if you don't want your bags checked.

Before the "oh it will take a long time excuse" when I lived in Japan my 70 year old housekeeper rode her bike 23 miles to get to work. If there was a mass public transport system I doubt she would care less if they took a couple of seconds to check her bags.

Otherwise what is so unreasonable about checking bags to have the privilege to ride on a PUBLIC subway system?

The "KGB" will need reasonable probable cause if you do ride your OWN bike or car.

If you use the subway just be sure to hide the drugs on the body and it should be Ok.

[Rodney King]

bump

[Zavien Doombringer]

What's the lie? They say they were going to search, they are searching and no one has been fooled...

After all, you can drive your own car or walk to your destination.

You didn't mention anything about Christian, or bashing religion. Haru did...

[tfecw]

"The "KGB" will need reasonable probable cause if you do ride your OWN bike or car."

Wait a sec....you choose to drive your "own" car, driving myself is a privilege not a right. I also use public roads and pay taxes to the public to drive "my own" car (sort of like i do for the metro)

It seems like driving my own personal car meets the same criteria you are using for "securing" subway. Actually my house meets the same requirements.

Are my children going to have the same argument with someone when cops in NYC are going to be taken off murder cases, drug cases, etc and told to spend all day going door to door seeing if people are dumb enough yet to submit to a search of the house?

(Of course refusal to allow entry will make you an apologist or someone with something to hide. What's 30 minutes to run a few dogs in your house, I'm sure you Japanese house keeper wouldn't mind)

[Zavien Doombringer]

Ok, you are taking it way over the edge...

You do have the protection of the constitution to improper search and seizure of YOUR PROPERTY.

If you use the CITIES mode of transportation, you have to follow the CITIES rules. or stick to your own and drive your car on city and state roads using THIER RULES. The only place you have sanctuary is on YOUR PROPERTY.

You are comparing apples to oranges.

[tfecw]

The lie is the false sense of security.
So the bad guys either skip the check point and go onto a new station, or detonates at the security check point. Either way isn't going to be pretty and at the end of the day what do you have to show for it other than wasted time and money. This will definitely be used to raise even more taxes in NYC and is the perfect opportunity to justify milking the people of more money. The "politicians" will say see no bombings, this stuff works, then proceed to sell the people talismans that protect against tiger attacks (funded by tax dollars of course)

My apologies for the Christian comment. I missed where he mentioned it the first time through.

[Zavien Doombringer]

The false sense of security, is it for the government or for the populace?

I for one believe that no violation of rights has been commited. However you have to be honest in what we are looking for. Being "pc" about it, is not the right way to do it. We have to profile. Statictics say so... Timothy McViegh was an only exception...

[tfecw]

Ok, you are taking it way over the edge...

I agree I am, that was more unfair sarcasm then seriousness (I'll take up arms long before I stand at the city sidewalk security checkpoint):) I definitely don't want to give them impression I'm wearing a tin foil hat. ;) I just find it very scary when you start letting the government take an inch because they don't stop.

You do have the protection of the constitution to improper search and seizure of YOUR PROPERTY.
Hmm I should also be able to have a gun on my own property in NYC, DC, San Fran, etc.

[rollo tomasi]

A policeman needs probable cause to search your vehicle. Specific laws are on the books already. If the "KGB" abuse this a good lawyer will take them to task.

If anyone who knows their rights will ask for what is the cause of the search and where is your search warrant before your car and home is searched.

If there is a certain law that says you need probable cause to search your bags before you enter the subway or airport I would like to see it. I will agree with you then.

If not, lobby your State congresscritter to write one if you think it's abusive.