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Russian Mini-Submarine Stuck on Sea Floor
MYWAY ^ | 5 AUG 2005 | YEVGENY KULKOV

Posted on 08/05/2005 4:12:44 AM PDT by visagoth


Russian Mini-Submarine Stuck on Sea Floor

 

Aug 5, 6:57 AM (ET)

By YEVGENY KULKOV

(AP) A poject 1855 Priz naval mini-submarine is seen in this undated file picture. A similar Russian...
Full Image


VLADIVOSTOK, Russia (AP) - A Russian mini-submarine with seven sailors aboard snagged on a fishing net and was stuck on the sea floor off Russia's Pacific Coast, and a Navy spokesman said the seamen had enough air to survive one more day.

Navy authorities scrambled to figure out how to raise the vessel from a depth of some 625 feet. The Interfax news service said Russia's Pacific Fleet commander was in talks with U.S. Navy officials over how the United States might help.

"There is air remaining on the underwater apparatus for a day - one day," Capt. Igor Dygalo said on state-run Rossiya television.

"The operation continues. We have a day, and intensive, active measures will be taken to rescue the AS-28 vessel and the people aboard," he said.

Pacific Fleet spokesman Capt. Alexander Kosolapov said contact had been made with the sailors, who were not hurt, and that authorities were preparing to send down a similar vessel to assess the situation.

The sub's propeller became entangled in a fishing net Thursday, trapping the craft, Dygalo said.

The mini-sub, called an AS-28, was too deep to allow the sailors to swim to the surface on their own or for divers to reach it, officials said.

Dygalo's statement about the amount of air remaining, which he said came after "all the information was checked," followed conflicting statements from officials who said there was enough air for anything from one to five days. The range of estimates may have come because there were seven people aboard the vessel; the crafts usually carry three.

The accident occurred early Thursday after the mini-submarine was launched from a rescue ship during a combat training exercise, Kosolapov said.

Kosolapov said nine warships were in the area to aid the rescue operation.

Officials said the accident occurred in Beryozovaya Bay, approximately 100 miles south of Kamchatka's capital, Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky.

The accident occurred almost exactly five years after the nuclear submarine Kursk sank to the bottom of the Barents Sea after explosions on board, killing all 118 seamen aboard in a painful blow to the Russian navy. Some of the Kursk's sailors survived for hours after the accident as oxygen ran out, and Russian authorities came under sharp criticism for their handling of the crisis.

The same type of vessel that is now stuck, called a Priz, was used in the rescue efforts that followed the Kursk disaster, Interfax reported.

The AS-28, which looks like a small submarine, was built in 1989. They are about 44 feet long and 19 feet high and can dive to depths of 1,640 feet.

Russian news agencies reported that Japan decided to send four ships in a response to a request for help. A Japanese Marine Self Defense Force spokesman, Mitsyasu Yokoe, said the press service had no information on such a dispatch and could not comment.


TOPICS: News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: rescue; russia; russian; russianmilitary; sub; submarine; usn
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1 posted on 08/05/2005 4:12:45 AM PDT by visagoth
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To: visagoth

Snagged on a fishing net?

Wow...such small things can cause big problems..ie the Space Shuttle.


2 posted on 08/05/2005 4:14:08 AM PDT by ConservativeMan55 (DON'T FIRE UNTIL YOU SEE THE WHITES OF THE CURTAINS THEY ARE WEARING ON THEIR HEADS !)
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To: visagoth

Not again.


3 posted on 08/05/2005 4:14:24 AM PDT by mainepatsfan
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To: visagoth

Snagged on a net at 625 feet? One day of air?

Those men are dead.

Sending down another similar craft, if there is one in the area, that doesn't have a mating hatch flange will do nothing except expose it to the same fate.


4 posted on 08/05/2005 4:21:02 AM PDT by bill1952 ("All that we do is done with an eye towards something else.")
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To: Doohickey; judicial meanz; submarinerswife; PogySailor; chasio649; gobucks; Bottom_Gun; Dog Gone; ..
Ping to steely-eyed killers of the deep list.

Can't help but wonder what wonder what this vehicle is doing operating out in the middle of nowhere with (seemingly) no support vessels...

5 posted on 08/05/2005 4:21:17 AM PDT by Conservative Infidel (How come they call it "Tourist Season" if we can't shoot them??)
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To: visagoth

Prayers for the submariners and all who will attempt the rescue.


6 posted on 08/05/2005 4:22:39 AM PDT by OldFriend (MERCY TO THE GUILTY IS CRUELTY TO THE INNOCENT ~ Adam Smith)
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To: visagoth
There must be something the US can do, but the Russians have to ask for assistance. Just as in the Kursk tragedy, the Russians won't ask for help until it is too late. To have the US save the men is too harsh on the Russian self esteem.
7 posted on 08/05/2005 4:23:03 AM PDT by SkyPilot
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To: visagoth
A similar thread is over here.

Russians trapped on sea bed in sub

8 posted on 08/05/2005 4:26:26 AM PDT by csvset
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To: Conservative Infidel

Can hard-hat/suit divers get down that far? I would guess the Ortalon and Pidgeon are way too far out of range to offer any help at all.


9 posted on 08/05/2005 4:26:55 AM PDT by Salo
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To: bill1952
Sending down another similar craft, if there is one in the area, that doesn't have a mating hatch flange will do nothing except expose it to the same fate.

How about snagging the net with a grappel and pulling the whole thing up?
10 posted on 08/05/2005 4:28:21 AM PDT by ARCADIA (Abuse of power comes as no surprise)
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To: bill1952
Snagged on a net at 625 feet? One day of air? Those men are dead.

You don't know that. I remember watching a special on a similar occurrence involving Ed Link's (inventor of the Link flight simulator) submerged vessel being trapped below c. 1973. It was snagged on a cable while exploring a shipwreck (IIRC). Another craft either cut it or nudged it free. Two of the four men survived; tragically, one of the dead was Link's son.

I think we've had quite a few technological advances in 30+ years, so keep the faith. Let me see if I can dig up that story.

Prayers going out for these Russian sailors and their families.

11 posted on 08/05/2005 4:29:46 AM PDT by Coop (www.heroesandtraitors.org)
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To: Salo
Atmospheric Diving Suits can go as deep as 2000 feet or 600 meters.

A submarine rescue exercise was completed about 1 month ago.

Sorbet Royal 2005

Lots of info, links .


Fwiw, here's a pic of a Atmospheric Diving Suit.

San Diego, Calif. (May 3, 2005) - Machinist Mate 1st Class Kris Wotzka and Damage Control Man 3rd Class Kenneth McCollum attached to the Deep Submergence Unit at Naval Air Station (NAS) North Island, assist launching Lt. Cmdr. Keith Lehnhardt in an Atmospheric Dive Suit (ADS) into a training pool for evaluation. The primary use of the ADS is for Submarine rescue missions. U.S. Navy photo by Photographer’s Mate 2nd Class Prince Hughes III

12 posted on 08/05/2005 4:29:55 AM PDT by csvset
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To: SkyPilot
Just as in the Kursk tragedy, the Russians won't ask for help until it is too late.

They've already asked for help, as the article above addresses.

13 posted on 08/05/2005 4:32:03 AM PDT by Coop (www.heroesandtraitors.org)
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To: bill1952
Here's some more info:

At Link Port, Ed Link continued designing a new submersible improving on the Deep Diver design. Johnson-Sea-Link was made of an aluminum alloy and acrylics for a lighter submersible. The acrylics were used to create a huge transparent acrylic sphere to be the pilot/observer's compartment. The aluminum alloy was used for the frame to hold the diver's compartment, battery pods, and other component parts. In 1989, the Living Seas exhibit at Disney World called it "futuristic"…today. And the submersible had been in use almost 20 years!

An unfortunate accident with Johnson-Sea-Link in the early 1970s resulted in the development of a cabled observation and rescue devise (CORD). The Johnson-Sea-Link became entangled in the wreckage of an old destroyer off Florida's coast. Two divers, Albert Stover and the Link's son Clayton, died in the accident. Ed Link devoted the next two years assisting in the design of CORD that works in conjunction with a surface ship. The unmanned CORD uses television cameras, lights, and hydraulic-powered claws and cutters, that allow it to free a trapped submersible. It was one of the first remotely operated vehicles (ROVs) used.

http://edwin.lib.fit.edu/edwinlinkproject/biography.php

14 posted on 08/05/2005 4:33:47 AM PDT by Coop (www.heroesandtraitors.org)
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To: SkyPilot
Disagree

In my view the U.S. would do the exact same.

But its nice that we can have different views...N'est Pas?

15 posted on 08/05/2005 4:34:56 AM PDT by squirt-gun
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To: csvset

I know hindsight is 20/20 but is there way to pipe air to them? Do subs have any outside accessable nozzles that could be used to supply them with air?

I hope they get these people out.

Great idea earlier about pulling the whole damn thing up. I mean you would think they could bring in a ship that could lower cables or lines and send down a sub or divers to attach the lines and hoist it and whatever trash is holding it up.


16 posted on 08/05/2005 4:35:23 AM PDT by BookaT (My cat's breath smells like cat food!)
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To: BookaT

Tried, tried, and tried.

Mostly at shallow depths.
A nice theory, but current tends to turn the cables into a big ball of knots.

Those guys are DEEP.


17 posted on 08/05/2005 4:44:23 AM PDT by bill1952 ("All that we do is done with an eye towards something else.")
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To: visagoth
They are dead meat.
Poor Russia. It will take them at least three generations to recuperate from the, er, blessings of communism.

Karl Marx, what a moron....and those who believed in him, morons maximus.

18 posted on 08/05/2005 4:45:30 AM PDT by starfish923
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To: Coop

Well, they can hope.

Now, IF they have the proper equipment (assuming it exists) and IF they can get it to the area right now, and IF they can deploy it right then and there, and IF it can actually do something to free the darn thing, then they have more chance than zero.

That is a fantastic story about cutting away cables.
Perhaps it could work with a net.

I haven't followed DSRV technology in quite a while, so perhaps there is hope, but 1 day of air changes everything.

As far as cables and such, frankly I don't see how it could be done, although there is a rumor that the CIA did that to recover PART of a Russian sub long ago.

Took a long time and tore the sub in half.


19 posted on 08/05/2005 4:53:13 AM PDT by bill1952 ("All that we do is done with an eye towards something else.")
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To: bill1952

Well, here, it sounds as if "all" they need to do is cut the net, then the sub - even if its propulsion system is damaged - could rise to the surface. But I am by no means an expert, so I'm curious to hear what some ol' Bubbleheads (submariners) have to say on this accident.


20 posted on 08/05/2005 4:56:07 AM PDT by Coop (www.heroesandtraitors.org)
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To: visagoth
I would think bell/saturation divers or JIM SAM WASP or AX suit equiped divers could do this easily depending upon obstructions.


AX suit

A robotic submersible with an airline to an external valve could give them air..if they have an external air valve..

imo

21 posted on 08/05/2005 4:57:28 AM PDT by joesnuffy (Save the whales. Redeem them for valuable prizes.)
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To: BookaT
It is possible to pipe air. The link in the other posts mentions that they've done this in practice. They are a ways down there, so that's one obstacle to overcome. There's another procedure where they'll deliver essential supplies, via a capsule.

There are also Deep Rescue Vehicles capable of mating with other submarines, I'm not sure if the Russian vehicle is compatible.

The link in a earlier post has a bunch of information on the types of training they conducted. The Russians took part in the exercise this year.

Here's hoping for a good outcome.

22 posted on 08/05/2005 4:58:27 AM PDT by csvset
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To: visagoth; ProudVet77

Russina Navy blunders ping.


23 posted on 08/05/2005 5:02:36 AM PDT by Happy2BMe (Viva La MIGRA - LONG LIVE THE BORDER PATROL!)
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To: Coop

Prayers for all aboard. Hope we can help quickly.


24 posted on 08/05/2005 5:04:23 AM PDT by meema
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To: visagoth
...said the seamen had enough air to survive one more day.

That's what they said about the Kursk. These guys are probably dead already.

25 posted on 08/05/2005 5:06:56 AM PDT by Excuse_My_Bellicosity ("A litany of complaints is not a plan." -- G.W. Bush, regarding Sen. Kerry's lack of vision)
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To: visagoth
here we go again. anymore, an assignment to a Russian sub is worse than being sent to Siberia.

Maybe they ought to quit fooling around with submarines...

26 posted on 08/05/2005 5:09:47 AM PDT by the invisib1e hand (In Honor of Terri Schiavo. *check my FReeppage for the link* Let it load and have the sound on.)
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To: visagoth

Prayers for the sailors.


27 posted on 08/05/2005 5:09:55 AM PDT by BlessedBeGod (Benedict XVI = Terminator IV)
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To: joesnuffy

John Kerry and his goofy suit poses.

28 posted on 08/05/2005 5:11:50 AM PDT by the invisib1e hand (In Honor of Terri Schiavo. *check my FReeppage for the link* Let it load and have the sound on.)
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To: meema
I'm not sure, but I think the sub stuck on the bottom IS the Russian DSRV. It's going to be hard to rescue the rescue ship, if only because they will need to get another DSRV to the location in 24 hrs.

I'm thinking that the best bet would be to send some kind of remotely piloted vehicle down with a grapple and just drag the sub net and all right to the surface. It may sound crude but if the alternative is letting them suffocate, you think you would have to at least try it.

I really hope they get these guys up.
29 posted on 08/05/2005 5:15:30 AM PDT by GonzoGOP (There are millions of paranoid people in the world and they are all out to get me.)
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To: visagoth

A 700 ft roll of cable with a hook on the end wouldn't help?
They have another sub which could maybe snag it.
It sounds like this situation is salvagable.


30 posted on 08/05/2005 5:20:05 AM PDT by HereInTheHeartland (The Democrat party is the official party of the Morlocks.)
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To: visagoth

625 feet down x 44 psi / 100 feet depth = 275 psi at their depth.

That's a lot of pressure.

Meanwhile, a day is not a long time for a deep rescue operation. Just getting something with the capability to do it is almost guaranteed to take longer.

It's not looking good for these guys. They need a miracle.

I hope one happens.


31 posted on 08/05/2005 5:20:32 AM PDT by Majic (Temporary taxes are as common as temporary death.)
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To: visagoth

Just heard about this on the news, how sad, this is the second time something like this has happened to Russian sailors, bless their souls and their families. I hope they can be rescused but by all accounts it doesn't look like that will happen.


32 posted on 08/05/2005 5:29:00 AM PDT by rockabyebaby (What do you like best about your life?)
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To: GonzoGOP
I'm thinking that the best bet would be to send some kind of remotely piloted vehicle down with a grapple and just drag the sub net and all right to the surface

It would have to have an enormous amount of thrust to overcome the mass of that sub and net.
Not to mention that sub is not just "sitting" on the bottom.
It is being pressed down into it by untold pressure.
If that bottom is not rock, the suction alone would ensure that it may never ascend.

33 posted on 08/05/2005 5:42:50 AM PDT by bill1952 ("All that we do is done with an eye towards something else.")
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To: Conservative Infidel

34 posted on 08/05/2005 5:45:35 AM PDT by SmithL (There are a lot of people that hate Bush more than they hate terrorists)
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To: visagoth

"Too deep for divers to reach..."

Pipin Ferreras has been down to about 160 meters on a single breath with no scuba gear at all. They're not much deeper than that.
Prayers for their safety---and a little ingenuity.


35 posted on 08/05/2005 5:53:41 AM PDT by Graymatter
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To: visagoth; Doohickey

Hope we can get them some help: It HAS to be rapid response.

Appropirate that Cold War submarine enemies can help a stranded sailor on the bottom.

(That said, why are the Russians still need to do training on these Special Forces insertion mini-subs?)


36 posted on 08/05/2005 5:53:41 AM PDT by Robert A. Cook, PE (-I contribute to FR monthly, but ABBCNNBCBS supports Hillary's Secular Sexual Socialism every day.)
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To: Graymatter

He hasn't been working down there cutting 1" cables in fishing nets that he can't see, can't unsnag, and can't can't feel interferences!


37 posted on 08/05/2005 5:54:42 AM PDT by Robert A. Cook, PE (-I contribute to FR monthly, but ABBCNNBCBS supports Hillary's Secular Sexual Socialism every day.)
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To: bill1952
Not to mention that sub is not just "sitting" on the bottom. It is being pressed down into it by untold pressure.

No, it's not. The sub is experiencing untold pressure yes, but that pressure is coming at it from all sides. The only thing pressing it into the bottom is ordinary gravity.

38 posted on 08/05/2005 5:55:18 AM PDT by green iguana
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To: visagoth

I can see the tuna industry responding already...

"No dolphins... or Russians... were harmed in the making of this tuna."


39 posted on 08/05/2005 5:56:37 AM PDT by XEHRpa
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To: bill1952

Get a big helo or two, run the cables underneath it and lift it off the floor.


40 posted on 08/05/2005 6:04:39 AM PDT by EQAndyBuzz (Liberal Talking Point - Bush = Hitler ... Republican Talking Point - Let the Liberals Talk)
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To: mainepatsfan
Not again.

Remember that line in the movie with the Russians and Gene Hackman I believe? One of the Russian subs got 'lost'? Great movie...what was the name of it again?

41 posted on 08/05/2005 6:04:54 AM PDT by Fawn (Being a FREE COUNTRY doesn't mean EVERYTHING'S FOR FREE!!!!!!!)
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To: green iguana

WRONG.

If is sitting on a bottom that is not rocky, then that part of the sub is NOT subject to sea pressure, and it will be pressed down by sea pressure.

It is NOT being acted on by sea pressure from all sides, and this is very well known in UT.
Ever try to lift something off the sea floor at depth?


42 posted on 08/05/2005 6:05:01 AM PDT by bill1952 ("All that we do is done with an eye towards something else.")
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To: Conservative Infidel

They were on war games and launched from a mother ship.


43 posted on 08/05/2005 6:05:32 AM PDT by jb6 ( Free Haghai Sophia! Crusade!)
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To: visagoth

So---why can't they bring up this fishing net? Or do they just leave it there permanently to snag marine life and kill things--including people now.


44 posted on 08/05/2005 6:08:03 AM PDT by Fawn (Being a FREE COUNTRY doesn't mean EVERYTHING'S FOR FREE!!!!!!!)
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To: SkyPilot

It was just reported on Fox News that both the US and Japan are sending help.

Please Lord let it arrive in time.


45 posted on 08/05/2005 6:08:23 AM PDT by Kewz1
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE

I realize that. I mentioned PF for perspective. The depth is not utterly abyssal.


46 posted on 08/05/2005 6:09:22 AM PDT by Graymatter
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To: EQAndyBuzz

Name one time that has ever worked.


47 posted on 08/05/2005 6:10:52 AM PDT by bill1952 ("All that we do is done with an eye towards something else.")
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To: bill1952
Not this crap again. How difficult would it be to put an emergency air intake valve on every sub in the world with a universal matching flange.
48 posted on 08/05/2005 6:14:41 AM PDT by 11th_VA (BORDER SECURITY NOT SOCIAL SECURITY - I'm voting 3rd Party)
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To: bill1952

> If is sitting on a bottom that is not rocky, then that part of the sub is NOT subject to sea pressure

Correct. If it is sitting in, say, mud... then it's being acted on also by the "mud" pressure. Constant pressure all-round. While a circular cross-section sub may survive uniform pressure, it woudl only take relatively slight asymmetrical pressure to cause the hull to collapse.

> Ever try to lift something off the sea floor at depth?

Nope. But I can imagine that deep-sea mud can be as sticky as any other mud, and serve as glue. But the pressure difference issue is nonexistant.


49 posted on 08/05/2005 6:17:57 AM PDT by orionblamblam ("You're the poster boy for what ID would turn out if it were taught in our schools." VadeRetro)
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To: bill1952

the WATER pressure is equal all around even if it is on the bottom.


50 posted on 08/05/2005 6:20:13 AM PDT by Mr. K (Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants don't help...)
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