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NYP: LIBERTY' LUNACY - ACLU suit on subway searches wastes evryone's time
New York Post ^ | August 5, 2005 | John Podhoretz

Posted on 08/05/2005 6:05:42 AM PDT by OESY

So the New York Civil Liberties Union has decided to sue the NYPD on the grounds that subway bag searches are unconstitutional. At first glance, there doesn't seem anything surprising or wrong about such a choice. After all, isn't that what civil-liberties unions are supposed to do?

Well, yes, except nobody — even civil-liberties unions — is supposed to bring frivolous and harassing lawsuits that clog up the time and energy of those being sued.

There is no way the NYCLU can win this suit, because the Supreme Court has already held, in pretty definitive terms, that these sorts of bag searches are entirely legitimate under the terms of the Fourth Amendment — the very amendment that forbids "unreasonable searches and seizures."

Case in point: A sentence in a decision called Indianapolis v. Edmond, decided in 2000. Well before 9/11, Justice Sandra Day O'Connor explicitly stated that "the Fourth Amendment would almost certainly permit an appropriately tailored roadblock set up to thwart an imminent terrorist attack."

What else is a random bag search inside a New York City subway station but an "appropriately tailored roadblock" for a pedestrian using mass transit?...

Now, Assemblyman Dov Hikind and others would argue that, in fact, these random bag searches do not advance the interest of preventing a terrorist attack. They think the fact that those whose bags are checked are chosen at random rather than by ethnic profiling makes these searches pointless....

In a 1987 decision called Griffin vs. Wisconsin, the Court noted that there are "special needs" circumstances that allow the relaxation of an absolute prohibition against police searches and seizures without specific warrants. In this case, the [Supreme] Court [held there] is a 'special need' of the State that may justify departures from the usual warrant and probable-cause requirements."...

(Excerpt) Read more at nypost.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: New York; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: civilliberties; fourthamendment; iclu; nyclu; nypd; profiling; searches; subway; terrorists

1 posted on 08/05/2005 6:05:44 AM PDT by OESY
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To: OESY

Some Civil Liberties are more important than others.


2 posted on 08/05/2005 6:06:51 AM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks (Scratch a Liberal. Uncover a Fascist)
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To: OESY
THe ACLU's top leadership wants to destroy the USA. It wraps itself in "civil liberties" but actually seeks to destroy all civil liberties, using our own laws. The ACLU is the most successful of Joseph Stalin's front groups in the US, and would be a fossil if not so dangerous.

Trust me on this.

3 posted on 08/05/2005 6:08:45 AM PDT by FormerACLUmember
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To: OESY
It's about time this radical and abusive organization is investigated. They have made millions of dollars mostly by suing local governments and school districts and the like that do not have the budget to afford to fight against the suits and therefore have to fold regardless of the validity of the claims. It's time such strong armed highway robbery is stopped. It is an abuse of our legal system.
4 posted on 08/05/2005 6:09:20 AM PDT by highlander_UW (I don't know what my future holds, but I know Who holds my future)
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To: Senator Kunte Klinte
First, we ought to get away from the language of "random searches." There is nothing random about searching every fifth traveler. The searches are systematic, predictable, mindless and ineffective because any terrorist with half a brain can easily circumvent the controls.

Some think such measures provide reassurance to a nervous public, but in reality they are meant to inoculate those in office against accusations, after the next terrorist attack, that they did nothing to prevent it.

Others think that the terrorist carrying an 80-lbs. back pack full of explosives will be easy to spot. More likely, the terrorist will be carrying an innocuous radio filled with Semtex. That's why terrorists are so difficult to detect before they attack.

Thus, profiling is essential and public figures who eschew such methods out of concern for political correctness must be held accountable now, before the next tragedy occurs.
5 posted on 08/05/2005 6:10:04 AM PDT by OESY
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To: FormerACLUmember

THe ACLU's top leadership wants to destroy the USA.
-----
It always has. Its communist underpinnings have always been the slant...why our government tolerates this seditous organization is beyond comprehension and really represents a double standard upon the people of the US.


6 posted on 08/05/2005 6:10:14 AM PDT by EagleUSA
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To: OESY

I feel very strongly on this matter. If those idiots in the ACLU cause the saftey of my family in any manner whatsoever, I will sue them....

I feel that every American should join together in a law suit against the ACLU in this matter....they are putting our saftey in question by whinning....

So it takes a few extra minutes to board a plane, a subway car, a bus....

I repeat again, if anything happens due to this ACLU crap and anyone in my family is hurt or harmed because of it, I will sue until there is not a ACLU member around!!!!!

Take it to the bank, because it will happen!


7 posted on 08/05/2005 6:12:39 AM PDT by HarleyLady27 (I have a ? for the libs: "Do they ever shut up on your planet?" "Grow your own dope, plant a lib")
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To: OESY

What is a waste of time and money is the searches themselves. They will not stop a single attack.

If I was a bomber, and I was stopped (which there is only a small chance of) I would simply refuse to be searched, turn around, and walk ten blocks to the next station. It wouldn't take long before I succeeded.

This is a "feel good" policy designed to cover up the massive failing by the government in securing the nation.

Forts have walls for a reason. It is easier to keep the enemy out than to fight them within.

We should expel all non-citizens from Muslim countries, and halt all immigration from those countries.

The cost of defending ourselves at the border is less than searching every person that travels within the border.


8 posted on 08/05/2005 6:17:29 AM PDT by Rodney King (No, we can't all just get along.)
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To: OESY

Agreed, but the searches are also a waste of time. No one with a bomb is going to submit to a voluntary search, unless he plans to detonate the bomb right then and there.


9 posted on 08/05/2005 6:31:52 AM PDT by Brilliant
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To: FormerACLUmember

> The ACLU is the most successful of Joseph Stalin's front groups in the US, and would be a fossil if not so dangerous.

>Trust me on this.

I have reason to...an ACLUer I know is the biggest Bush-hater/Castro-supporter I've ever met...used to meet with his leftie lawyer pals and hatch plots.


10 posted on 08/05/2005 6:33:37 AM PDT by cloud8
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To: EagleUSA

Besides, it prevents them from getting to their favorite coffeeshop.


11 posted on 08/05/2005 6:35:38 AM PDT by relictele (How can Hillary run the country when she couldn't manage a household of 3?)
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To: Rodney King

> We should expel all non-citizens from Muslim countries, and halt all immigration from those countries.

I agree with you, but tragically the people entrusted with protecting us aren't up to speed:

1. Surveillance, bomb sniffing dogs

2. Searches

3. No bags, packpacks on the subway

4. Profiling

The unthinkable happens, and there is a great hue and cry.

5. Non-citizen Moooslims are expelled

6. The ACLU sues...


12 posted on 08/05/2005 6:45:09 AM PDT by cloud8
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To: HarleyLady27
I feel very strongly on this matter. If those idiots in the ACLU cause the saftey of my family in any manner whatsoever, I will sue them....

Your statement assumes that the searches as currently carried out will actually improve safety. In fact, something like 3.3 to 4 million passengers a day ride the mass transit system in NYC. A couple of thousand random searches is meaningless. Even if the NYPD were to profile 16 to 40 year old middle eastern looking men, they could only search a small fraction of them who ride the trains, subways, and buses every day. This is a total waste of time and money.

13 posted on 08/05/2005 6:45:14 AM PDT by Labyrinthos
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To: OESY

To allow these Leftist lunkheads to sunk under the weight of their own hubris and stupidity is a good idea. What's astonishing is that many people pay serious attention to their machinations and lunatic ravings.


14 posted on 08/05/2005 6:47:41 AM PDT by Savage Beast (Love is the ultimate aphrodisiac!)
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To: Labyrinthos

I understand that, but at least they are searching, if the ACLU has it's way, it won't be done at all, neither will profiling, and if you don't profile right now, your stuupid....do you think a 90 year old woman would be carring around a bomb???

I know they won't find alot, but their hands are tied because of Bloomy...can't offend anyone....well good luck, what are you going to do if one of your family is hurt or killed because someone wanted to be PC?????


15 posted on 08/05/2005 6:54:31 AM PDT by HarleyLady27 (I have a ? for the libs: "Do they ever shut up on your planet?" "Grow your own dope, plant a lib")
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To: Eric in the Ozarks; OESY
As others have said, "the Constitution is not a suicide pact." With the proviso that anyone can turn around and leave rather than undergo a random search, there is ZERO chance that these searches will be found unconstitutional in this situation.

My only hope is that the court, after dismissing the case, will go a step further and assess attorneys fees and costs against the ACLU for bringing a frivolous lawsuit. There is no excuse, either legal or practical, for this garbage. IMHO.

Congressman Billybob

Latest column: "The Washington Post Doesn't Have a Clue about Government Under a Written Constitution"

16 posted on 08/05/2005 6:56:42 AM PDT by Congressman Billybob (Will President Bush's SECOND appointment obey the Constitution? I give 95-5 odds on yes.)
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To: OESY
ICLU......

Islamofascist Civil Liberties Union

17 posted on 08/05/2005 6:57:27 AM PDT by finnman69 (cum puella incedit minore medio corpore sub quo manifestus globus, inflammare animos)
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To: FormerACLUmember

I think we need to push our congresscritters to get rid of the legislation that allows our tax dollars to support these jerks. While I'm sure Soros and those of his ilk will continue to funnel $s to them, I see no reason our tax $s should go to them. If they do, then $s should also go to the Thomas Moore Law Center and other orgs that are trying to fight them. I personally don't think that my tax $s should go to either one, but fair is fair.

I was listening to BOR on the radio on the way home last night (it's replayed from earlier in the day). A guy called in and said he was checking the United Way site after 9/11 and about $2-300K of the donations went to the ACLU. Bill said that was the 1st time he heard that and was going to have his staff check it out (asking for all UW records for the past 4 years). He said if it's true, he'd have a story on it on TV, probably Mon night. He also said he was going to be all over the ACLU and start naming it's supporters. Like BOR or not, I must say he's always spoken out against the ACLU and it appears he's going to step that up, which I applaud. I think too many people don't understand the damage this org is doing to our country (though some are finally starting to find out due to their cases against crosses, etc.).


18 posted on 08/05/2005 6:58:15 AM PDT by Seattle Conservative (God Bless and protect our troops and their CIC)
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To: OESY

Well then, let the ALCU pay all the suits for wrongful death if anyone ever does anything in the subway.

Besides, bag searchs remove the right to slaughter innocents for Muslims, a precious religious right to them. The ALCU just wants their bretheren to be free.


19 posted on 08/05/2005 7:00:57 AM PDT by American in Israel (A wise man's heart directs him to the right, but the foolish mans heart directs him toward the left.)
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To: OESY
I think the ACLU will get blown out of the water on this one, the result will be that societies right and obligation to protect the population will be affirmed and profiling will be judged to be necessary and proper for the good of all
20 posted on 08/05/2005 7:15:03 AM PDT by Rumplemeyer
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To: HarleyLady27

I understand what you're sayig, but its a waste of time and money. Meanwhile, hundreds of millions of dollars in funds that were supposed to be used on top secret "sniffing machines" for the NYC mass transit system remain unspent because the local politicians don't want to follow US Defense Department procurement requirements as a condition for receiving the money. (Translation: The local political whores don't want to follow Defense Department procurement requirements because they won't be able to hand the money out to their friends, relatives, and campaign contributers.)


21 posted on 08/05/2005 7:21:44 AM PDT by Labyrinthos
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To: Labyrinthos

Well I feel sorry for the people that live in New York with those two lousy senators...neither one has a brain between them...and that stupid Rangel...what a joke....

Course I live in PA. so we don't have it much better....

We certainly have to look at who we put in office, and if they don't deliver then we should vote them out the next election, maybe then, and only then will people get the idea WE THE PEOPLE RUN THE GOVERNMENT; NOT CLINTON, SHUMER, KENNEDY, KERRY, BOXER, POLSKI, REID, ETC


22 posted on 08/05/2005 12:15:41 PM PDT by HarleyLady27 (I have a ? for the libs: "Do they ever shut up on your planet?" "Grow your own dope, plant a lib")
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To: HarleyLady27

In thos particular case, we also need to blame RINO Pataki and RINO Bruno, who have packed the MTA and Port Authority with hacks and cronies.


23 posted on 08/05/2005 12:22:06 PM PDT by Labyrinthos
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

Of course, if these searches are unconstitional, I wonder how we got saddled with seatbelt laws, speed limits, any form of gun registration, etc.


24 posted on 08/07/2005 6:16:19 AM PDT by trebb ("I am the way... no one comes to the Father, but by me..." - Jesus in John 14:6 (RSV))
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