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ACLU vs. Boy Scouts of America
NEWSMAX.COM ^ | Saturday 6 August 2005 | Paul Weyrich

Posted on 08/06/2005 10:54:07 AM PDT by concretebob

While growing up I was a proud member of an organization that emphasized the importance of honesty and "being clean in thought, word and deed." We vowed to serve God and our country. If you think that this organization's philosophy is non-controversial, you are sadly mistaken.

We live in an era of Political Correctness. The beliefs and values that our society broadly embraced when I was a member of Boy Scout Troop 77, chartered by Holy Trinity Catholic Church of Racine, Wisconsin, are now endangered.
Unfortunately, our federal courts often make decisions that assault our country's most cherished beliefs and values. Many of the nation's 3.2 million Boy Scouts and 1.2 million adult members must be hanging their heads low right now. A recent ruling by U.S. District Judge Blanche Manning in Chicago indicates how much our society has declined in understanding the difference between paying homage to God and the intermingling of church and state.

Winkler v. Chicago was brought by the American Civil Liberties Union of Illinois on behalf of Methodist Minister Eugene Winkler, Rabbi Gary Gerson and others. Thanks to their misunderstanding of the separation of church and state, as well as that of Judge Manning, the Pentagon cannot use federal funds to support future National Boy Scout Jamborees such as that held last month.

The argument in this case is not that the Pentagon transfers money allocated for weapons systems to the Boy Scout Jamboree. It is that the Pentagon uses federal funds to support the event of an organization that develops our youth and acknowledges God. According to the plaintiffs and the ACLU, the Pentagon violates a fundamental stricture requiring the government to be "neutral" in religious activities although the Pentagon is authorized by Congress to support the Boy Scouts of America.

The Boy Scouts of America (BSA) is a non-denominational youth organization that seeks to make young men good citizens. It does require Boy Scouts to affirm a belief in God, or any God for that matter.

Methodist Minister Eugene Winkler insisted, "Government must be neutral because we are a nation of many religious views – as well as those who do not practice a religion. The expenditure of $7.3 million by the Pentagon on an organization that requires young people to affirm a belief in God – and the simultaneous exclusion of secular organizations from this benefit – undermines that principle of neutrality."

The ACLU argued that the money expended by the Pentagon is "alarming" because BSA distributes to Jamboree attendants a guidebook that lists a prayer book as "required personal camping equipment." BSA also distributes "Duty to God," a booklet suggesting daily prayers that could be said during the Jamboree.

What the ACLU so aggressively protests is indoctrination, but this is much ado about nothing. Devout Boy Scouts will use the prayer books and be sincere in the thoughts they express to God. Most will be sincere in what they say and do. Some Boy Scouts will not be so sincere, perhaps not even say the prayers at all. That is for God to judge.

Judge Manning in the earthly court – the U.S. District Court – incorrectly interpreted the Constitution. The First Amendment does not call for separation of church and state; it says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

BSA does not favor any religious denomination; the organization truly is non-denominational. This was clarified in the motion for summary judgment filed on behalf of the Department of Housing & Urban Development. In the motion, HUD sought to have the judge issue a ruling without a trial because the arguments of the plaintiffs, Reverend Winkler and Rabbi Gerson, were baseless. The motion said:

While a Boy Scout accepts an obligation to do one's "duty to God" and to be reverent, BSA leaves the implementation of the Scout's religious beliefs up to the Scout and his family. ... BSA encourages members to practice their religious beliefs as directed by their parents and spiritual advisors…Boy Scouts leaves sectarian religious instruction to the member's religious leaders and families, does not require its members to attend or participate in any sectarian religious ceremony, welcomes young people of all religious backgrounds, and in fact includes members of every religious denomination as well as those who affiliate with no organized religion whatsoever. ... While many religious organizations "charter" Scouting units, BSA prohibits them from requiring boys who belong to other denominations or faiths to take part in or observe their religious ceremonies.

The Department of Justice has not decided whether to appeal this case. Millions of Americans who care about an organization that promotes wholesome values in our country's young boys have a vested interest. They should hope the Department would not let this egregious ruling go unchallenged.

Congress has a role to play, too. Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, M.D., R-Tenn., introduced the Support Our Scouts Act (S. 642) to guarantee that Scouts shall have fair and equal access to all public facilities and forums. Senator Frist's bill would amend the Housing and Community Development Act to prohibit any state or local government from discriminating against any youth organization such as the Boy Scouts or its affiliates.

A bipartisan group of senators co-sponsored the bill, which the Senate recently approved as an amendment to the Department of Defense Authorization bill (S. 1042). Senator Frist emphasized how "proud" he was that his amendment received bipartisan support. The battle will continue within the House/Senate conference committee on the DoD authorization bill.

The ruling in this case reaffirms the need to place judges on the federal bench who are committed to interpreting the law, not actively rewriting it. The Pentagon's support of the Boy Scout Jamboree does not establish a religion and surely does not violate the First Amendment.

Many similar decisions, based upon the personal prejudices or gross misinterpretations of a judge, recently have been handed down. At risk, due to such activist-driven rulings, are beliefs and values that have united us as a country.

When the BSA finds itself in legal hot water because it wants its members to honor God, this is not the America that I knew growing up. In my youth, acknowledgement of our faith and our country's Judeo-Christian heritage was common and accepted practice. Our country has lost its moorings, and too many Americans of Christian and Jewish heritage willingly have abandoned the faith that held their forbearers in good stead.

Our nation's youth are too complacent, taking for granted what has been given them. They mistake Hollywood and sports celebrities as accomplished, not only in their performances on stage and on screen and on the playing field but also in their lifestyles. Glitz outshines living a life that truly honors God. The Boy Scouts challenge our young men to set higher goals and higher standards for themselves, including belief in God.

A federal judge has told the Boy Scouts that belief is unacceptable because the government must be "neutral." Millions of Americans do understand the importance of faith. They are not "neutral" when recognizing God and do not put a denominational stamp on faith. A Boy Scout may believe in his country, but his belief in God instills real mettle in that conviction.

Paul M. Weyrich is Chairman and CEO of the Free Congress Foundation.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government
KEYWORDS: aclu; boyscouts; boyscoutsofamerica; bsa; bsalist; stoptheaclu; stupidjudges; weyrich

1 posted on 08/06/2005 10:54:08 AM PDT by concretebob
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To: concretebob

Damn anti-American value sodomites!


2 posted on 08/06/2005 10:56:02 AM PDT by ncountylee (Dead terrorists smell like victory)
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To: concretebob

Put an ACLU member into a foxhole or order him to run into a house with armed militants shooting at them and see if a prayer doesn't leave their lips while the pee runs down their legs. People who actually put their lives on the line in the military understand more about that prayer book than most priests do I think.


3 posted on 08/06/2005 10:59:57 AM PDT by Abathar (Proudly catching hell for posting without reading since 2004)
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To: Neets; Darksheare; scott0347; timpad; KangarooJacqui; The Scourge of Yazid; Conspiracy Guy; ...
ACLU PING
Yes it's me, and I'm still around, just busy as a one-legged wheelbarrow operator.
New images on my website..interesting if you're into construction.
The Cancer Center still hasn't broken ground, but it is on schedule for 11 August.
That one is going to be fun...Linear accelerator, and high dose vault. Anyway, I'll be in and out.
4 posted on 08/06/2005 11:00:38 AM PDT by concretebob (We will not stop until every a$$ is kicked and every name is taken.)
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To: concretebob

"In God We Trust" on money is on their agenda for the end of this year. ACLU.....trial lawyers.


5 posted on 08/06/2005 11:01:13 AM PDT by AGreatPer
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To: Jay777

ACLU PING


6 posted on 08/06/2005 11:01:44 AM PDT by concretebob (We will not stop until every a$$ is kicked and every name is taken.)
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To: concretebob
Judge Manning in the earthly court – the U.S. District Court – incorrectly interpreted the Constitution. The First Amendment does not call for separation of church and state; it says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

This is clear, all the cases about monuments, The Ten Commandments, crosses on memorials, crosses on city seals, menorahs and nativity scenes on public squares are all examples of how far this mis-interpretation has driven our public life. It is high time to stand up and tell people that the constitution carrys no right to "Not Be Offended" and this is what the interpretations of the establishment clause have boiled down to. If I can see this, judges (who are far smarter then me) can see this too. Look for some incidious agenda on the part of the democrats behind these affairs, and vote them out.

7 posted on 08/06/2005 11:05:57 AM PDT by KC_for_Freedom (Sailing the highways of America, and loving it.)
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To: KC_for_Freedom
They (judges, ACLU, et al) conveniently use Jefferson's letter to the ministers as the basis for the "seperation" argument.
Jefferson wrote the Religious Freedom Act for the Virginia Constitution, which is the basis for the First Admendment religious clause.
They ignore the written law, and base their philosophy on some obscure private communication.
I've had it right up to here with every stinking one of them. My last nerve is frayed and bare and THEY are ON IT.
8 posted on 08/06/2005 11:18:24 AM PDT by concretebob (We will not stop until every a$$ is kicked and every name is taken.)
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To: concretebob

They are agents for the enemy. Their day is coming.


9 posted on 08/06/2005 11:21:16 AM PDT by CBart95
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To: concretebob

10 posted on 08/06/2005 11:22:31 AM PDT by DocRock
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To: concretebob; Jay777

This is sickening. But, it's the ACLU so what do we expect.

One for the Stop the ACLU ping list.


11 posted on 08/06/2005 11:26:01 AM PDT by darkangel82
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Later evil ACLU vs BSA pingout.


12 posted on 08/06/2005 11:26:04 AM PDT by little jeremiah (A vitiated state of morals, a corrupted public conscience, are incompatible with freedom. P. Henry)
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To: concretebob

here is the problem. We are constantly on the defensive and at the mercy of thier organization to file law suits. We need a way to take the battle to thier offices. Thier donors, thier polititions their children. We need a piece of legislation that we can ram up thier liberal ass so hard and so fast they will be buckled and defeated.

We are sitting ducks as it is set up now.... can we sue them for infringing on our rights to persue our own Life, liberty and persuit of happiness?


13 posted on 08/06/2005 11:28:39 AM PDT by Walkingfeather
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To: concretebob
The author is, of course, completely correct in his analysis of the First Amendment. For a more detailed assessment of the question, and of the ACLU's 85 years of treacherous assault on American religious freedom and other values, see Leftwing Word Games & Religious Freedom.

Of course the ACLU particularly hates the Boy Scouts, because of another aspect of the ongoing Leftist assault on our values. (See The Boy Scouts Of America & A Leftwing Agenda.)

Ladies and Gentlemen, our world is under attack--and the greatest threat, by far, is within our midst.

14 posted on 08/06/2005 11:31:29 AM PDT by Ohioan
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To: concretebob

Thanks for the ping!


15 posted on 08/06/2005 11:33:08 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: concretebob

ACLU is against any organization that tries to promote good character. They sued the National Honor Society several times for daring to use character as a criteria for membership (and apparently won, though I find this difficult to believe). They have supported pedophiles. ETC.


16 posted on 08/06/2005 11:34:13 AM PDT by Dante3
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To: Walkingfeather
Congress has always had the right under Article III, to prevent the Federal Courts from even hearing cases, which challenge people's right to exercise their religious beliefs. It just lacks the will to act.

William Flax

17 posted on 08/06/2005 11:35:00 AM PDT by Ohioan
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To: DocRock

18 posted on 08/06/2005 11:39:42 AM PDT by concretebob (We will not stop until every a$$ is kicked and every name is taken.)
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To: concretebob
Only a bunch of Liberals would ever consider the Boy Scouts to be a bigger threat to our society than the child-raping degenerates of NAMBLA.

The ACLU is nothing but pro-death, pro-Islamofascist and pro-pedophile.

19 posted on 08/06/2005 11:58:02 AM PDT by Prime Choice (Thanks to the Leftists, yesterday's deviants are today's "alternate lifestyles.")
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To: Abathar; AGreatPer; ncountylee; KC_for_Freedom; concretebob; Coleus; tiamat; Conspiracy Guy; ...

http://www.stoptheaclu.com/


20 posted on 08/06/2005 12:04:40 PM PDT by Do not dub me shapka broham ("I'm okay with being unimpressive. It helps me sleep better.")
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To: concretebob; Neets; Darksheare; scott0347; timpad; KangarooJacqui; The Scourge of Yazid; ...
Hi, Bob! Long time no see. Keep up the good work.

Why don't more people sue the ACLU?






21 posted on 08/06/2005 12:06:36 PM PDT by Lady Jag (Honor - Dignity - Courage)
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To: concretebob

My problem is not that they can find justification out side the constitution, there are plenty of libs writing cr*p about the poor athesist who has to stand and be painfully offended with another leading a group prayer. How about just standing and RESPECTING another's belief? Same goes for the Salute to the Flag of the US. If for some reason you do not want to salute the flag -- and there are reasonable as well as tratorous reasons -- just stand there and be respectful. If you are not a christian, (I am Jewish) you should note that the nativity scene represents a holy time for another religion and be respectful of this.

We are headed in an insane direction by the initial supreme court decision establishing the separation of church and state doctrine and the court only has to look at the ten commandments decision to see just how conflicted and far from logic they have brought us.


22 posted on 08/06/2005 12:15:04 PM PDT by KC_for_Freedom (Sailing the highways of America, and loving it.)
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To: RepCath; Liz; IronJack; Grampa Dave; MeekOneGOP; Iris7; wkdaysoff; EdReform; Nick Danger; ...
PING!
23 posted on 08/06/2005 12:21:18 PM PDT by Jay777 (My personal blog: www.stoptheaclu.com)
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To: concretebob

This makes me motivated to sell twice the amount of popcorn I would usually sell for our pack next month.


24 posted on 08/06/2005 12:23:26 PM PDT by Diva Betsy Ross (Code pink stinks!)
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To: Diva Betsy Ross

BTTT


25 posted on 08/06/2005 12:29:28 PM PDT by Unicorn (Too many wimps around.)
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To: Diva Betsy Ross

It is time to yank the tax exempt status of churches and outfits like the ACLU


26 posted on 08/06/2005 12:32:14 PM PDT by MudSlide
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To: Do not dub me shapka broham; Jay777
When the BSA finds itself in legal hot water because it wants its members to honor God, this is not the America that I knew growing up. In my youth, acknowledgement of our faith and our country's Judeo-Christian heritage was common and accepted practice. Our country has lost its moorings, and too many Americans of Christian and Jewish heritage willingly have abandoned the faith that held their forbearers in good stead.

A federal judge has told the Boy Scouts that belief is unacceptable because the government must be "neutral."

The ruling in this case reaffirms the need to place judges on the federal bench who are committed to interpreting the law, not actively rewriting it. The Pentagon's support of the Boy Scout Jamboree does not establish a religion and surely does not violate the First Amendment.

Thanks for the link as well.

27 posted on 08/06/2005 1:49:22 PM PDT by Victoria Delsoul
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To: concretebob
WHY WE FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT


The Scoutmaster


28 posted on 08/06/2005 2:29:42 PM PDT by yankeedame ("Oh, I can take it but I'd much rather dish it out.")
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To: Victoria Delsoul
You're welcome.

:)

29 posted on 08/06/2005 2:30:44 PM PDT by Do not dub me shapka broham ("I'm okay with being unimpressive. It helps me sleep better.")
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To: concretebob

ACLU never ceases to disgust me.


30 posted on 08/06/2005 4:00:48 PM PDT by rockabyebaby (What do you like best about your life?)
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To: yankeedame; Straight Vermonter
I visited Rockwell's museum while vacationing in VT. one year.
31 posted on 08/06/2005 4:05:34 PM PDT by Coleus (Roe v. Wade and Endangered Species Act both passed in 1973, Murder Babies/save trees, birds, algae)
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To: yankeedame

Oh man, I had know idea Rockwell did so many great pictures, *wiping tears out of my eyes*

Thanks Yankeedame

KC, Eagle Scout and father of an Eagle Scout.


32 posted on 08/06/2005 4:06:15 PM PDT by KC_for_Freedom (Sailing the highways of America, and loving it.)
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To: Ohioan; concretebob; Do not dub me shapka broham
The BSA is slowly going left these days. They are big into environmentalism and "low impact" camping, have dumbed down the BSA Handbook and made the requirements simpler. tons of pictures, compare and contrast one from today to a book from the 1960's. They took out stalking and tracking, animal tracks, tree identification. When I was a Scout we had to cook on wood fires started by ONLY 2 matches. Now they use propane stoves, that doesn't teach them about survival. They also put in an escape clause for certain requirements due to being classified "handicapped" with all the special ed. and ADHD classifications that's about 1/4 of most scouts.

They now are "looking" for women and minorities to serve on their boards and to be included in certain committees. In may councils, the wood badge course now has their token women and minorities as well as the silver beaver award, there always has to be just one.

I just hope they hold on to traditional values and not give in to the left on that.
33 posted on 08/06/2005 4:14:01 PM PDT by Coleus (Roe v. Wade and Endangered Species Act both passed in 1973, Murder Babies/save trees, birds, algae)
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To: KC_for_Freedom; Lady Jag
Norman Rockwell is one of the most consistently underrated American artists, from an historical perspective.

Compare the crowds that are drawn to an exhibition of his work to those that attend the pseudo-artistic freak-shows routinely bankrolled by noveau riche, Eurotrash pond scum like Charles Saatchi.

I can't think of more vivid illustration of the enormous chasm in cultural values between the elites and the masses.

In this, as in so many other observations of modern society, Tom Wolfe was correct in his analysis.

34 posted on 08/06/2005 4:26:51 PM PDT by Do not dub me shapka broham ("I'm okay with being unimpressive. It helps me sleep better.")
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To: Do not dub me shapka broham

Thanks. A lost fact of history is that the ACLU was almost legally outlawed as a Communist front just before World War II, but Morris Ernst cut a deal with the FBI to purge the ACLU of known CP members and inform the government on left-wing activity in the legal community. At some point it's clear the ACLU reneged on this deal and the Communists were able to reassert their original influence in the organization--I would guess this probably happened with the rise of the Vietnam antiwar movement and the disintegration of the Cold War consensus. Today, I think you could make a good case that in the context of the War on Terror, the government should again review the ACLU's legal status. Likewise the National Lawyers Guild.


35 posted on 08/06/2005 4:45:22 PM PDT by Fedora
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To: Fedora
The ACLU, NLG, Center for Constitutional Rights-one of the most Orwellian euphemisms that I've come across-all comprise the domestic branch of Al Qaeda.

They can't recruit the necessary cannon fodder here, and they're finding it impossible to penetrate the multi-layered defenses of our homeland security, so they use Marxist fifth columnists as the tip of their spear.

David Horowitz was prescient when he warned of a Red-Green alliance.

36 posted on 08/06/2005 5:52:16 PM PDT by Do not dub me shapka broham ("I'm okay with being unimpressive. It helps me sleep better.")
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To: Do not dub me shapka broham

Exactly, IMO.


37 posted on 08/06/2005 6:46:29 PM PDT by Fedora
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To: Fedora

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/089526076X/qid=1123379915/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-2571581-0599066?v=glance&s=books


38 posted on 08/06/2005 6:59:23 PM PDT by Do not dub me shapka broham ("I'm okay with being unimpressive. It helps me sleep better.")
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To: All

The ACLU is an anti-American organization and should be denounced as such. We should find who contributes to them and boycott.


39 posted on 08/06/2005 7:00:36 PM PDT by Luke21
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To: Do not dub me shapka broham
Thanks! Looks like an interesting book. In my own researched I've noticed the left began forming ties with the PLO and related groups during the late 1960s. This led Martin Peretz to resign in protest from Ramparts.
40 posted on 08/06/2005 10:29:10 PM PDT by Fedora
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In my own researched

Evidently I should've researched typing more before I posted this :-)

41 posted on 08/06/2005 10:30:30 PM PDT by Fedora
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To: yankeedame

Great pics.


42 posted on 08/06/2005 11:12:51 PM PDT by Jay777 (My personal blog: www.stoptheaclu.com)
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To: Fedora
No need to worry.

Typos are an occupational hazzard.

:7)

43 posted on 08/07/2005 6:11:18 AM PDT by Do not dub me shapka broham ("I'm okay with being unimpressive. It helps me sleep better.")
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To: thompsonsjkc; odoso; animoveritas; DaveTesla; mercygrace; Laissez-faire capitalist; ...

Moral Absolutes Ping.

Good editorial about the BSA and the evil ACLU. The BSA deserve all the support we conservatives can give them, either financial, vocal, volunteer, whatever.

The ACLU needs to be defunded, defanged, and bright line shone on it so people know what it really stands for.

Freepmail me if you want on/off this pinglist.


44 posted on 08/08/2005 9:36:08 AM PDT by little jeremiah (A vitiated state of morals, a corrupted public conscience, are incompatible with freedom. P. Henry)
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To: concretebob

BTTT


45 posted on 08/08/2005 9:45:17 AM PDT by EdReform (Free Republic - helping to keep our country a free republic. Thank you for your financial support!)
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To: yankeedame

what KC_for_Freedom said...

(sniff)


46 posted on 08/08/2005 10:02:35 AM PDT by snuffy smiff ("the theory of Communism may be summed up in a single sentence:abolition of private property"-K.Marx)
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To: Walkingfeather

They should be prosecuted under the RICO statute.


47 posted on 08/08/2005 2:59:24 PM PDT by Warhammer
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