Young Asians focus of searches [London goes sane!]

The Sunday Times (UK) ^ | August 7, 2005 | By Thair Shaikh

[aculeus]

AS SENIOR officers and civil rights groups continued to argue about the controversial new stop-and-search policy, based on racial profiling, police put it into practice yesterday at stations across London.

Officers working to the guidelines, confirmed on Sunday by Ian Johnston, Chief Constable of the British Transport Police, targeted men of Asian appearance aged 18 to 30. Mr Johnston, who was supported yesterday by Hazel Blears, the Home Office Minister, said that police should not waste time searching “old white ladies”.

“Intelligence-led stop and searches has got to be the way,” he said. “We should not bottle out over this . . . there is every sign that the Muslim community understand the predicament we face.”

Police officers said that they had stopped and searched a disproportionately large number of young Asian men in Liverpool Street and King’s Cross stations. One of the those stopped at Liverpool Street was Arif Mahmud, 22, a waiter of Bangladeshi origin. A community support officer spent ten minutes checking his rucksack and suitcase and had also asked for identification. “He was polite and I can sort of understand why it has to be done, but there were lots of white men with rucksacks walking by as he questioned me,” Mr Mahmud said. “I’m pretty scared . . . everybody is staring at me because of my luggage.”

The guidelines, which will also target black men and those of East African appearance, were attacked by civil rights groups and Muslim organisations. Shami Chakrabarti, director of the civil rights group Liberty, said: “If you search people of a particular race or description, it does not take long for terrorists to learn ways of placing their lethal cargo with those who do not meet the profile.”

The Muslim Council of Britain said: “While it is understandable that the police need to undertake every step to thwart would-be bombers, it is crucial that they do not unnecessarily alienate and stigmatise an entire segment of society.”

Copyright 2005 Times Newspapers Ltd.

[commonasdirt]

If you check all OBVIOUSLY islamic appearing people first you will be better off statistically then checking none of them or only every tenth one who happens to be in a line. Me? I think if you are checking I.D.'s anyone falling in your convert category who has I.D. with a name that sounds like a typical muslim name, especially if think they are a convert, would immediately be pulled for closer examination. Leave it to the cops judgement. Profiling is not the complete answer, but it certainly is a partial one. If they decide they need to begin looking at 50+ year old white guys at some point and it inconveniances me....I am fine with that. To condemn profiling while offering no alternative is insane.

[CarrotAndStick]

So you do agree profiling is not a perfect solution. Well, terrorists(read Muslims) do the most hideous things. They WILL find ways to get past the system. You say check all brown-skinned travellers? They WILL send in white Muslims. You say check all who have Muslim-sounding names? They WILL send in Muslims with Anglicised names(Ibrahim becomes Abraham, Dawood becomes David, and so on. Don't forget Richard Reid). You talk about Muslim 'appearances'. Well, they'll shave to kill. The London bombers did just that!

You are looking at a religiously motivated bunch of b@stards who go far out of the way to kill innocents. Islam has a concept of Taqquiah(sp.?), it means to deceive the 'enemy' through disguise, lying, conviction, etc., to achieve the purpose of furthering the Muslim goal of eventual domination of all lands on earth. I don't think racial profiling will really make much of a difference. All you may see is that instead of brown-skinned Muslims doing it, white-skinned Arabs, Europeans (Chechans, Albanians, Turks and many more) and Iranians will take up the job(they are already dying to become 'martyrs'), like they do in Israel. The problem is too complicated to be solved by racial profiling. The problem is Islam itself. They will do everything to beat the statistics. After all, didn't they attack the WTC a decade prior to 9-11? What does statistics say about that?

I really don't know what alternative exists to racial profiling, but it is not wise to bank on a solution which itself is wrought with more holes than a sieve. If all you care about is a false sense of security, then it may do that, and keep the spirits high until the next time the enemies strike. After all, you've got to be lucky every time, and they need to be so only once.

[commonasdirt]

An awful lot of type for ending up by saying you don't know what to do instead of profiling. I will stand by my statements. Profiling is better than doing nothing. When they alter their methods we can devise new ways. In the meantime, if profiling catches 9 and lets 1 get through is that a failure to you. What's your complaint? If we cannot catch them all we should do nothing? to you? I tend to think that their ability to attract white converts to islam who are willing to blow themselves up is more limited then you think. All in all, making statements against profiling without offering anything as a substitute made your long exceedingly windy statement makes it nothing more than that.

[CarrotAndStick]

Again, you have mistaken me. I said there are plenty of white, non-western fanatic muslims already. They don't need western converts for the job. A large percentage of Arabs, Iranians and Eastern European muslims cannot be distinguished from an average white westerner, blue eyes and all, even by appearance, leave alone skin colour. This is the crux of the fault with racial profiling, and the terrorists know it as well.

In Israel itself, you can't always distinguish between a European Jew and a lot of Palestinians.

If you really think profiling will solve the problem, then go ahead.

[commonasdirt]

Converts are one thing....and a whole differant thing at that. As I said I doubt they will find many of the converted ready to strap on a bomb. Profiling will be a fact. And thankfully so....it WILL stop some.

[commonasdirt]

And if you bother to read my posts you would see that I clearly and more than once stated that profiling is not the entire solution. Not profiling at all would be sheer idiocy.

[CarrotAndStick]

I agree profiling can be a short term fix to the problem, albeit a leaky one. But then one musn't depend too much on it. If you do, you are bound to be sorry sooner, rather than later. Neighbourhood watches and informants within communities can probably help track these vermin better, coupled with profiling.

And I will say it again, there are plenty of white, blonde-haired, blue-eyed middle eastern Muslims(who aren't converts, but born Muslims) IN AMERICA and the rest of the world who are supportive toward Islamics and their activities, and racial profiling cannot possibly track all of them, unless it includes almost all races. This is the biggest shortfall of racial profiling, and you can bet the terrorists WILL exploit it.

[Hank Rearden]

Which is why racial profiling is stupid at best and foolish at worst. Frankly I don't trust any idiot white people to figure one group from another or know anybody's race. "look at their pants". Fool. Have you never seen a Sikh in a business suit?

Yet "idiot white people" isn't racial profiling???? Interesting.

Speaking of fools, he said look into not at their pants. Only a fool wouldn't understand what was meant by that.

I'll profile Moos and their crappy little death-cult all I wish and encourage others to do the same; Islam is a cancer upon the Earth which must be eliminated.

[The Red Zone]

As I said I doubt they will find many of the converted ready to strap on a bomb.

Unless they are really really alienated and enraged already.

[commonasdirt]

I think if the poster I was discussing this with before was correct we would have already seen it. I really doubt that they would trust the converted white muslims for reason of culture for one thing. They are not stupid, it would already be in play if it were so easy to get them to do so. Sure, there was the shoe bomber......but look what a screw up he was.

[commonasdirt]

It is a long term solution but only to a degree. No one is saying make that the ponly plan. But like it or not, it will be done. If it catches anyone at all it will have proven it is worth it.

[CarrotAndStick]

Agreed. But we need to think of better ways to stop this menace once and for all at the same time. Till then, profiling can be an acceptable "solution".

[commonasdirt]

Un freakin believable CarrotAndStick! After tossing postings back and forth at one another we reach the middle ground of civil agreement. Who'd a thunk it. One thing for sure, if this was DU or some other lib site we would be screaming at one another by now. No wait.....DU would have banned me by now AGAIN. LOL And THAT is what makes FR the Much better place.

[CarrotAndStick]

I agree. I enjoyed it thoroughly.