Post WWII Insurgency (Vanity)

[God luvs America]

Does anyone have links to stories/articles about Japan "insurgents" shooting or killing American GI's after VJ-Day in 1945?? They were posted a while back yet I cannot find them...thanks and sorry for the intrusion.

[Austin Willard Wright]

T.R.'s role was exaggerated in certain ways. For example,. McKinley was fully aware of his order to attack the Spanish fleet and free to countermand that order (but didn't). McKinley knew perfectly well what he was doing. Still, T.R. was a very important cheerleader for both the war and crushing the insurgency (which occured when he was prez).

Bryan's role in anti-imperialism is exaggerated. The Democrats/Populists in 1896 took a pretty hard line for a "free Cuba" in 1896 (much to the dismay of the Clevelandite anti-imperialists). Bryan supported the Spanish American War, and much to the dismay of the Anti-Imperialist League and supported Treaty of Paris ending the war. That treaty, of course, annexed the Phillipines and the vote was on it was razor thin.

It is true that Bryan opposed "imperialism" in the 1900 election but the anti-imperialist leaders (many of whom were goldbugs) never really trusted him, though most reluctntly voted for him or stayed home. By the end of the campaign, he was pushing free silver again and downplaying anti-imperialism.

I am sure that you agree terms like "liberal" and "conservative" (at least in modern terms) had little meaning in 1900. Bryan was certainly not a liberal on social issues, such as religion or states rights and T.R. was not a conservative on economic issues. Cleveland, on the other hand, is best decribed as a classical liberal Jeffersonian. People like Reed were Hamiltonian in their economic views.

Having said this, the leadership of the Anti-Imperialist League (both before and 1900) were made up of Clevelandite classical liberals who were pro-gold standard, pro-free trade, and anti-big government. They included the Edward Atkinson (a free market fan of Bastiat), J. Sterling Morton, another friend of the gold standard and former Secretary of Agricutlure, William Graham Sumner (the Milton Friedman of his day), Moorfield Storey (a rapid friend of the gold standard and civil rights), and many others. The Bryanites had virtually no role in the top leadership of the League.

[nicollo]

That's a nice description you make of "conservatives" and "liberals" from that period. The word "conservative" referred to those who supported the status quo, which was Lincoln Republicanism and all its economic policies, especially protectionism and other pro-business angles. It was more current than the other labels of "liberal" and "progressive" (which didn't appear fully until 1909/1910). And thanks for the info on the Anti-Imperialist League.

No doubt Bryan supported the war at its onset: anyone who wanted to remain politically viable did, especially McKinley who otherwise personally opposed it. Bryan volunteered for service in the war immediately. It was afterward that he turned against its aftermath in his run for office in 1900, which was my reference. Like our boy Kerry, he guessed wrongly that it would get him into office.

Now, a couple corrections:

McKinley was fully aware of [TR's] order to attack the Spanish fleet...

This is precisely what has been so exaggerated. TR wrote off some orders to move -- not to attack -- the fleet toward the Phillipines. The order was already anticipated by Dewey and was of no consequence. TR wrote of it as the opening drama of the war itself.

Still, T.R. was a very important cheerleader for both the war and crushing the insurgency (which occured when he was prez)

The insurgency was contained by the time TR took office and the political direction was well set under the American governor there, Taft, who was appointed by McKinley.

Thanks for your replies.

[elfman2]

"There was no substantial will to fight in Germany in 1945. "

That’s right. It took us 4 years to defeat it, longer in Iraq.

" nor were there the same ethnic divisions and the religious hatreds were more muted. "

Really? Think about that again;^)

[ValenB4]

Furthermore, there were about 200,000 killed in putting down the Philippine insurrection. With today's international media where everything is either instantaneous or recent, there's no way public opinion would accept something like that. Max Boot's an idiot.

[nicollo]

I've seen estimates well above your 200K. And I dunno jack about Max Boot.

That said, the Phillipines may offer little tactical parallel but it's a strategic lesson far above WWII or Vietnam as for what's happening now, especially as regards the home front.

Think.

[ValenB4]

I agree. To the liberals everything is Vietnam. To the neocons everything is WW2. They're both wrong. This is a totally unique screw up.