Posted on 08/13/2005 12:42:44 PM PDT by Interesting Times
Winter Soldier is a documentary which one experiences, instead of simply viewing. Over three days in January and February 1971, just a couple months before Lieutenant William Calley would be sentenced to life in prison for the My Lai Massacre (he would eventually serve less than four years), a group of Vietnam War veterans convened at a Howard Johnson in Detroit to testify about the atrocities they had witnessed or partaken in while serving in Vietnam. The conference was titled “The Winter Soldier Investigation,” after Thomas Paine: “These are the times that try men’s souls. The summertime soldier and the sunshine patriot will in this crisis, shrink from the service of his country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman.”
Needless to say, the country didn’t stand up and thank the (mostly long-haired and disenchanted) vets for reminding them of the sinkhole of iniquity America had mired itself in overseas. The gut-wrenching, eye-opening stories delivered by hundreds of soldiers in that sterile hotel conference room were mostly ignored by the media, and would likely have sunk without a trace after being published in the Congressional Record. The testimony, however, was shot by a group called the Winterfilm Collective (including the future Academy Award-winning documentarian Barbara Kopple) and edited into a tight, 95-minute piece of scorching truth-telling that played around at some film festivals, colleges, and one small Manhattan cinema, before mostly disappearing from the scene.
It’s not hard to see why, given that the film is essentially a parade of grainy, black-and-white footage of morose, shaggy-headed vets talking in confession-booth tones about laying waste to villages and butchering civilians; this is not a fun night out at the movies (but, then, neither is Shoah). In general, we as a country have preferred to have our Vietnam horror stories served up to us as part of thrilling wartime adventure tales, like Apocalypse Now and Platoon, or used as nihilistic punch lines in the morbidly inhumane Full Metal Jacket. And yet it remains well-nigh unconscionable that Winter Soldier a missive delivered straight from the frontline never become one of the standard texts on the Vietnam War and is only now getting its first proper theatrical release.
Due to the fact that John Kerry was a member of this group (he appears on screen for less than a minute, interviewing another veteran), and would testify on these same matters before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in April of the same year, Winter Soldier has been used as something of a punching bag by elements of the right, which have disputed the veracity of some of the soldiers’ claims. But it’s not the substance of one or two of the stories which give the film its quite substantial power to shock, it’s the numbing repetition of them, the same tropes repeated over and over in slightly varied form, all of it together painting a portrait of institutionalized brutality.
Like with the Abu Ghraib scandal, the Winter Soldier testimony showed that an indifference to Geneva Conventions regarding prisoners of war had filtered from command down to the grunts charged with handling them. Several soldiers speak with quite jarring normality about prisoners being thrown blindfolded out of helicopters, by officers no less, while slides show GIs looking on as South Vietnamese regulars torture suspected Vietcong guerrillas. Almost worse, however (and here is where, so far at least, the Vietnam-Iraq parallels seem to lessen), is the absolute disregard for civilian life. Anyone with even a little knowledge of the war knows the old joke (repeated here) about how to tell a Vietcong from a noncombatant (“Anybody running away is a VC. Anybody standing still is a well-disciplined VC.”), but it’s quite another thing to witness this deluge of horrors, with ordinary Vietnamese gunned down on the side of the road, from helicopters in rice paddies, in their villages, just because they happened to be in the way. Soldier after soldier talks about how routine these killings were, everything sanctioned by their officers, who at best looked the other way and at worst instigated it. “They weren’t human” is the drumbeat here, the atrocities that occurred being the inevitable result of institutionalized racism combined with a war in which no ground could be gained or lost, and only the body count mattered – whether the bodies were actually combatants was an oft-ignored detail.
Decades on, Winter Soldier can seem an anachronism with its lack of framing devices and narration, the testimony just laid out there in stark relief, with the viewer mostly left to fend for themselves; a potential problem in these ahistorical times. As a film it runs into problems when trying to tie in domestic racism against Native and African-Americans to the dehumanization of the Vietnamese people – it’s an important point that gets muffled, something that a clearer editorial approach could have helped. However, the sheer weight of testimony and the numbing repetition of their similar elements shows for a lie the attempts by fringe right-wing elements (mostly as part of their Swift Boat-John Kerry smear campaign) to present these soldiers’ stories as fabricated or aberrations instead of the norm. You can dismiss some of what’s said here as lies and exaggerations, but to deny the whole of it is to simply close one’s eyes to reality.
War is hell; Winter Soldier shows that this was true of the Vietnam War, only more so.
By the way, the upper photo at the left is Steve Pitkin, who signed an affidavit saying that he was pressured by VVAW leaders at the Winter Soldier Investigation to tell lies about atrocities. See also the What's New? section at WinterSoldier.com.
Perhaps film critic Chris Barsanti would be interested in hearing some other perspectives on the Vietnam Veterans Against the War's war crimes extravaganza...
Spineless US Senate would rather protect Hanoi Kerry
than deal with the anti war crowd.
Anyone who thinks Hanoi Kerry isn't behind the anti war crowd needs to get a clue.
It's time to support our troops and ignore the jelly fish in the US Senate!
There is no need to impeach Hanoi Kerry from the US Senate
He is there illegally!
WAKEUP AMERICA!
For those who "forgot" what Hanoi Kerry
did in the past read on and learn the truth.
Hanoi Kerry was still a USNR officer while he:
gave false hearsay testimony to Congress
negotiated with the enemy
helped the US lose a war
abetted in the deaths of millions
created a hostile environment for all servicemen
Why is Kerry still in the US Senate?
This is in violation of
U.S. Constitution Amendment 14 Sec 3
http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.amendmentxiv.html
And the FBI has proof of his treason.
Hanoi Kerry Timeline of a traitor
includes FBI files
May 1970
Kerry and Julia traveled to Paris, France and met with Madame Nguyen Thi Binh, the Foreign Minister of the Provisional Revolutionary Government of Vietnam (PRG), the political wing of the Vietcong, and other Viet Cong and Communist Vietnamese representatives to the Paris peace talks, a trip he now calls a "fact-finding" mission.
(U.S. code 18 U.S.C. 953, declares it illegal for a U.S. citizen to go abroad and negotiate with a foreign power.)
http://www.archive-news.net/Kerry/JK_timeline.html
a) A person charged with absence without leave or missing movement in time of war,
or with any offense punishable by death,
may be tried at any time without limitation.
http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/ucmj.htm#*%20843.%20ART.%2043.%20STATUTE%20OF%20LIMITATIONS
Distribute these url's!
Links to Anti Kerry sites
212 LINKS
News reports,
Viper's Vietnam Veterans Page
http://members.aol.com/ga1449ga/links/links.html
EXPOSE HANOI KERRY!
MUST SEE WEBSITE!!!!
http://www.kerrystreason.com/index.html
Full details on these url's!
http://stophanoikerry.150m.com
There is a backup site
if the 1st url is unavailable.
http://tonkin.spymac.net/hanoikerry1.html
Did you see this...?
(The 'Kerry's Promise Counter')
http://polipundit.com/index.php?p=6628
Polipundit even tells you how to install it on your own page!
PING
If you repeat a lie often enough, then it becomes true. The MO of liars.
lying traitor ping
on or off, FRe-mail me.
-- Steve Pitkin, from his September 2004 affidavit
Of course he knows - leftists just don't care.
Note even CBS News doesn't care - "The memos may be fake, but we stand by the story". Their own words.
The ends justify the means. They know it is a fiction - but they assume that the US is wrong, and the military is evil, so they figure it is a re-enactment - "similar stories must be true".
In a real world this jackass would lose his job - if it is a paying position - for a review like this. No one should comment to him - they should comment to the site. This person is a lost cause.
Diva's Husband
Werent most of these 'vets' frauds, and werent ALL of their stories either outright lies or embellishments?
BTTT!!!!!!!
They were a bit more subtle than that. There were some outright frauds, but most of the winter soldiers had been in the military, and a number did serve in Vietnam, though mostly in non-combat positions. The trick they used was to tell horrible stories of atrocities that were sufficiently vague in terms of who, what, when and where that they would be very difficult either to prove or disprove. Military investigators took a serious look at the charges, but found nothing that merited charging anyone with a war crime.
The tactic the VVAW and its supporters use today is to say, "many of these horrible crimes have never been disproved." My own position is that if you're going to claim that someone committed terrible crimes, the burden of proof is on you. The VVAW has never come close to providing such proof. That wasn't their objective -- they just wanted people to believe it was true.
(LOL)
So Kerry's bit is less than 2 minutes. If this would have had his whole testimony and came out before the election . . . . Funny, they seem to think it would have been better to come after the election, even though Kerry had a higher profile and this film would have gotten more press before November.
There is a book by a guy, Burke, I think, Stolen Honor, describing a lot of these Hippie type Vietnam Vets as not even serving in Vietnam, not having Purple Hearts, and some not even veterans.
How are you doing,Tonk?
The book is "Stolen Valor" by B.G. Burkett. Here's an excerpt.
No, you're confusing two different events. Kerry's interview of Steve Pitkin at the Winter Soldier Investigation only lasted for a minute or two, at least on the film. His testimony before Congress a couple of months later, which presented the Winter Soldier claims as true, lasted for a couple of hours.
Chris Barsanti doesn't mind being lied to as long as you can sound good doing it. Betcha a dollar to a donut Moore's Farfromright 911 got five stars from this Liberal jughead also. Toby Keith has a song called "The Critic" that tells you EVERYTHING you need to know about the Chris Barsantis of the world.
Now that's funny. LOL!
Smooch!
That pic of Pitkin is priceless in this context... My guess is at the end of this reissue of Winter Soldier, that they fully disclose Mr. Pitkin's affadavit???
Nobody is going to take anybody with that much hair seriously these days. Rip Van Winkle does more regular grooming.
| |
For the link to each of the below topics go to my FR about me page.
http://www.freerepublic.com/~stockpirate/
VVAW, FBI files and John Kerry, What I have found
1. “On September 30, 1971, Robert Malone, Chief of Police, University of Nevada, advised Kerry’s speech at the University was sponsored by the Associated Students of the University of Nevada, and that he was paid $1,200.00, including expenses for his appearance.” Kerry is paid for VVAW speeches, pg 25
2. VVAW pickets restaurant because owner refuses to serve long haired, barefoot and dirty veterans in his place of business. It is also noted that the organization encourages the use of narcotics. VVAW pickets restaurant, pg 28-29
3. VVAW distributes literature at an event that is used to collect intelligence on military tactics and methods in Vietnam. Considering the fact that the VVAW has meetings with the North Vietnam Communists and VVAW members travel to Moscow and Hanoi, this is a very serious matter. VVAW collects military intelligence concerning US tactics and methods in Vietnam War. Pg. 51-57
4. Joseph Urgo, Second Vice-President of VVAW is in North Vietnam August 13, 1971. VP of VVAW in North Vietnam, pg. 92
5. VVAW attorney was in North Vietnam on November 22,1970 and returned with letters from US POW’s. VVAW went to NV, pg. 96
6. Throughout this section of the FBI documents is a constant link between the VVAW’s activities and Communist groups or Communist front groups in the USA. Communist groups, pg. 86
7. VVAW shows a Communist propaganda film “entitled, ‘Evil Hour’, which depicted the effects of United States military actions on children in Vietnam..” Propaganda movie, pg. 101
8. Randy Floyd, President of the VVAW at the University of Texas. to speak in Oslo Norway concerning US war crimes in Vietnam. War crimes Oslo, Norway, pg. 115-116
9. FBI document reveals that, “all members of the VVAW who had traveled to Finland, Moscow, Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR), England…..” One of the VVAW members that traveled to Moscow had pictures attached to their mid-section of alleged atrocities in Indo-China, pg. 117-118
10. Speakers at a VVAW rally include Socialist/Communists advocating anti American propaganda. Communist groups speakers, pg. 132-139
11. Again the VVAW is using a Communist front organization of the Communist Party USA, in a rally, the YWLL. Communist groups, pg. 142
12. In reading the FBI files concerning John F. Kerry and the VVAW I find several instances where the VVAW is receiving money, directions, and non-monetary support from Communist Organizations in the USA, Europe, Soviet Union, France and Southeast Asia, as well as other countries. So, John Kerry worked for Communist Organizations attempting to overthrow the Government of the United States of America.
13. FBI Documents indicate that while John Kerry was with the VVAW, VVAW leaders met with KGB agents in the US. “VVAW collusion with foreign spies? “The Diplomatic List published by U.S. Department of State, in 1971 listed Grigoriy Sergeyvich Milhaylovskiy as an assistant Military Attache, Embassy of the U.S.S.R., Washington, D.C.”
14. Vietnam Veterans Against the War, John Kerry, FBI files Section 8 (Oct-Nov 1971)
15. Do the FBI Files concerning the VVAW (Kerry’s antiwar group) indicate a plot to assassinate Pres. Nixon?
16. John Kerry caused a fracture in VVAW for his own selfish goals (FBI Files reveal)
17. Kerry, Watergate: DNC Links Caused Break-in? (Kerry lied! Still with the VVAW after February 1972)
18. Lets watch the film of John Kerry and VVAW members throwing combat medals over the fence
19. Treat as Yellow – John Kerry’s VVAW coordinating with the North Vietnam Communist Government when US forces are under attack
20. VVAW leader meets with Communists to discuss tactics in the US antiwar movement. Kerry’s group!
21. Prior to “Dewey Canyon III” Mike Thelan East Coast Coordinator for the VVAW tells a gathering of possible attendants that the VVAW’s official position is not to encourage anyone to commit acts of violence, but that VVAW activists are not “discouraging someone from “doing it”. VVAW activists are not “discouraging someone from committing acts of violence, pg 4
22. FBI files indicate that “VVAW is under active investigation in view of indications of communist and other subversive infiltration”. indications of communist and other subversive infiltration, pg 24
23. Speaker at VVAW antiwar rally Carl Moore makes following statements, “President Nixon is a red baiting Fascist” and “the real problem is Capitalism. All power to the oppressed”. Speaker Carl Moore, pg 30
24. On stage to speak but did not speak at antiwar rally is one “Stanley “The Deacon” Alexander, member of Communist Party USA. Communist Party USA, pg 32
25. Tom Hayden speaking at antiwar rally uses the language of Jihad claiming “that Daniel Ellsberg and Anthony Russo are real Martyars”. Language of Jihad, pg 36
26. One speaker at the rally called for the “elimination of the penal system”. Penal system, pg 37
27. Speaker claims at the rally that, “ the ideal form of government is socialism as it exists in Cuba.” ideal form of government is socialism, pg 38
28. Speeches were given at rally advocating the release of Angela Davis, a self-admitted member of the Communist Party, and facing murder and kidnapping charges. The United Committee to Free Angela Davis founded by CPUSA, (Communist Party USA). Also note at bottom of page the desire to “increase welfare payments. CPUSA, pg 39
29. The VVAW has the SDS and the YSA, Young Socialist Alliance at demonstration. SDS and YSA working with VVAW, pg 69
30. Again we find the VVAW working hand in hand with Communists and Communist front groups. VVAW works with Communists, pg 75-80
31. Membership in the VVAW placed at about 8,500 members nationally. How many Vietnam vets were in the US at this time? And because they did not speak out against the VVAW we all know what happened. VVAW membership numbers, pg 81
32. Read the FBI report concerning a speech given by John Kerry at the University of Nevada, September 30, 1971. Kerry states in this speech, “My ten years of political consciousness in America is very wrapped up in gravestones……the men of Attica and the other 53,000 brothers in Vietnam?. John Kerry speech, pg 86-87
33. An antiwar group (CPPTC) working with the VVAW had also traveled to Hanoi in late 1970 to meet with Communists. People to people peace treaty with North Vietnam, pg 104
34. More support from Communist groups for the VVAW. Communist support, top of pg 111
35. We ask why Senator John Kerry votes against defense and intelligence spending, here may be the answer. page 142, item 2
36. The Black Militant Group in Cairo Illinois that the VVAW has been supplying with food, clothing and guns attacks the local police. Armed Negros Attack Police, these several pages are a must read. Note that in the November 1971 VVAW meeting it is discussed that VVAW supplied the weapons to this Black Militant GroupBlack Militant Group attacks police, pgs 168 – 171The first article you can’t read but follow to the next two articles.
37. VVAW stated goals are to number 9. “To affirm that the membership is not only concerned with ending the war, but changing the domestic, social, political, and economic institutions that have caused and permitted the continuance of war”. The Socialist/Communist agenda, pg 181, item 9
38. VVAW paper identifies John Kerry as “National Spokesman for VVAW. John Kerry Identified as national spokesman, pg 183
39. VVAW collusion with foreign spies? “The Diplomatic List published by U.S. Department of State, in 1971 listed Grigoriy Sergeyvich Milhaylovskiy as an assistant Military Attache, Embassy of the U.S.S>R., Washington, D.C.” VVAW meets with Soviet KGB spy, pg 184-185
40. Back to the future, read John Kerry’s statement to a news paper concerning the Vietnam War, I’ll bet it sounds familiar. “”We are here because we, above all others, have earned the right to criticize the was in South-east Asia. We are here to say that it is not patriotism to ask Americans to die for a mistake and that it is not Patriotic to allow a President to talk about not being the first President to lose a war…..”. Kerry’s speech than sounds like Kerry’s speech now, pg 247
41. Read in the FBI files where John Kerry states, “Ho Chi Minh is the George Washington of Vietnam. Ho studied the United States Constitution and wants to install the same provisions into the Government of Vietnam,” Kerry speaks, pg 248
Is John Kerry a War Criminal and a Traitor?
Consider the following.
After the Tet Offensive of 1968, the Viet Cong were decimated, the North Vietnam Communists were beaten, but with the Socialist leaning press in America and the VVAW’s antiwar protests the North Vietnamese Communists decided to hold on. John Kerry did not join VVAW until after his return from Vietnam in early 1969, and until then VVAW didn’t have very many members (8,500) and were not very successful at getting heard. The FBI reports that VVAW was nearly inactive until the Moratoriums in the fall of 1969. See pg 90 So, the press and the antiwar movement in America prevented the North Vietnamese Communists from surrendering.
This meant that instead of a US victory in South Vietnam and freedom for the South Vietnamese we had about 10,000 more US deaths from the time John Kerry came on board with the VVAW until the end of the war. America’s POW's were being tortured while listening to tapes of John "Traitor" Kerry calling them baby killers. America’s brave soldiers were dieing in the jungles of Vietnam and John Kerry was calling them war criminals.
The VVAW, an antiwar group, founded in the spring of 1967, which Kerry was one of the national leaders of, was receiving directions from the North Vietnamese Communist Government. VVAW in contact with in contact with NV Communist Government
The directions were on how the VVAW should protest the Vietnam War.
The interaction became so depraved, that the North Vietnamese Communist contacted the VVAW via a phone call and advised the VVAW that they were getting ready to start an attack on US troops and that the VVAW was to be prepared to increase the protests against the increase in bombing that the NV Communists were sure would happen. This put our men in further danger because of John Kerry and VVAW actions. VVAW gets directions from the North Vietnamese Communists
Al Hubbard, a leader of the VVAW briefed the NV, Soviets and other communist countries concerning “Electronic Battlefield Vietnam” as to tactics, methods and equipment which put US troops at extreme risk. Link to EBV
John Kerry had no concern for the lives of his fellow soldiers in Vietnam or the POW's, John Kerry only cared about himself and his ambition to become POTUS, whatever the cost.
How many deaths of United States servicemen does John Kerry have on his hands?
How many families has John Kerry's behavior as a VVAW leader and a traitor to his country caused untold pain and suffering to?
How many unnecessary tears have been cried because John Kerry betrayed our trust to help a Communist government?
Does John Kerry still have ties to Communists in America?
John Kerry was an officer in the US Navy during his protests of the Vietnam War, having not received his discharge until 1978.
Why didn't John Kerry speak out just one time against the war crimes of his "Comrades in Arms the North Vietnamese Communists"?
Steven J. Pitkin says about his Winter Soldier testimony. “John Kerry and other leaders of that event pressured me to testify about American war crimes, despite my repeated statements that I could not honestly do so. One event leader strongly implied that I would not be provided transportation back to my home in Baltimore, Maryland, if I failed to comply. Kerry and other leaders of the event instructed me to publicly state that I had witnessed incidents of rape, brutality, atrocities and racism, knowing that such statements would necessarily be untrue.”
I've also been wondering why Kerry never reported the atrocities he supposedly witnessed while in Vietnam. Maybe because Kerry may have never witnessed any atrocities while he was in Vietnam. The VVAW leaders were meeting with the North Vietnamese Communist Government, leaders of the Communist Party in Moscow, and possibly the KGB, leaders of the Communist Party International in Paris, leaders of the Communist Party USA, and last but not least the group of Communists in South Vietnam that backed the North Vietnamese Communists.
These Communist groups were directing the VVAW leaders as to what they wanted them to do, when they wanted them to do it, and that is what the VVAW did.
So in a nutshell, when the world communist leaders told Kerry and his VVAW group what to do, that is what they did, no questions asked.
Then there is this posted by Freeper Quilla!
In the last few weeks several political insiders have forgotten themselves and referred to TWA Flight 800, the airliner, which exploded in July of 1996 just east of New York City, as a terrorist incident. But only one has done it twice.
That person is Sen. John Kerry of Massachusetts. Appearing on "Larry King Live" on Sept. 11 of this year, Kerry suggested that TWA Flight 800 was brought down by a terrorist act. The second admission took place on Sept. 24 on "Hardball" with Chris Matthews. On this occasion, Kerry casually recited a number of terrorist attacks against the United States, among them TWA "Flight 800." Like Larry King before him, Chris Matthews either did not catch the remark or chose to let it pass.
And that there is this posted by Freeper Fedora:
According to Newsweek magazine, Kerry met with Liu Chaohying, a Hong Kong businesswoman who wanted to have her company listed on the U.S. Stock Exchange. Kerry lobbied on her behalf by helping to organize a meeting between Liu Chaohying and a senior Securities and Exchange (SEC) official.
In return, Kerry accepted a $10,000 contribution in the form of a Beverly Hills Fundraise on Sept 9, 1996, less than a month before the election, Newsweek reported.
It would later be established that Liu Chaohying was not simply a profit-motivated businesswoman, but rather a lieutenant colonel in the Communist China's Peoples Liberation Army.
Newsweek reported that more than $28,000 in illegal contributions were funneled into the campaign of then President Bill Clinton and Kerry, and that "the contributions came out of $300,00 in overseas wire transfers sent on orders from the chief of the Chinese military intelligence - and routed through a Hong Kong bank account controlled by Liu Chaohying."
The Los Angeles Times reported that Senator Kerry sent 28 letters on behalf of San Diego defense contractor Parthassarthi "Bob" Majumder between 1996 and 1999 in order to "free up federal funds" for a guided missile system designed by Majumder. In return, court documents show, Majumder induced his employees to contribute approximately $25,000 to Senator Kerry's campaign, while paying them proceeds from the government tracts in return
Yup!
I thought I had resized it way down to 554 pixels wide to use as a table background image to float that small FlipFlop-Kerry.gif on -
But I realized when I did resize Reg's original graphic - the text lost lots of resolution - and was not readable then - so I decided not to downsize it -
Somehow I just knew you would post Reg's great original large sized graphic -
Registered's graphic does makes one wonder if Heinz's Boston, PA, Idaho, Cape Cod, + several more of her mansions - have a similiar "shrine to John Kohn" - like the one in that Hanoi museum.......
I wonder if Kerry hunts deer with that Viet Cong (not de-milled per federal laws) rocket launcher he illegally smuggled back into the USA that he bragged about and shows to all of his girlfriends as he cranks up his Viet Nam home movies?
Very handy if the White-Tails are heavily armored.......
Yes, they are doing again what they did before. They hid the Winter Soldier propaganda during the election campaign because they were trying to paint Kerry as a war hero, but now they don't need to do that, so they are openly pushing their anti-american agenda.
Number Nine Number Nine Number Nine Number Nine Number Nine Number Nine Number Nine Number Nine Number Nine Number Nine Number Nine Number Nine Number Nine Number Nine Number Nine
Repeat
Did it come with a copy of Mao's Little Red Book?
Just heard a story on NPR about the re-release of this "documentary" staring JFK. One of the producers teaches political science in college.
Not one word about the bogus testimony.
DVD due out in January.
You can hear the NPR story here
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4800067
Some people just are not as easily programmed as others. This guy has obviously swallowed the whole load and wants moore (pun intended)...
Stoned and stupid is no way to go through life boy.
Read the posts. Names have been named.
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