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U.S. gun rights at issue in UN effort
New Orleans Times-Picayune ^ | August 13, 2005 | Bruce Alpert

Posted on 08/14/2005 12:12:44 AM PDT by Crackingham

Expressing concern that the United Nations' efforts to stem international gun running could impede the rights of U.S. gun owners, Sen. David Vitter, R-La., is proposing legislation to bar financing for the world organization should it infringe on Americans' Second Amendment rights.

Critics of Vitter's bill, including Eric Howard of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, accuse the freshman senator of placating voters who oppose gun control and are cynical about the United Nations. Howard said the bill could torpedo international efforts to stem the flow of arms to brutal militias in Africa and elsewhere that target civilians, particularly children.

Vitter, who calls his bill The Second Amendment Protection Act of 2005, said he's all for reducing the spread of weapons to terrorists, criminals or violent insurgents. "But the UN efforts seem to go well beyond that into an area that threatens the Second Amendment rights of Americans to keep and bear arms," he said.

Among the steps Vitter said have been discussed by UN delegates at a recent meeting are tracking lists of all firearm sales, worldwide record-keeping of all manufactured guns and even the licensing of all gun owners, measures he said are anathema to U.S. gun owners.

Vitter, who introduced his bill just before the start of the August recess, has nine co-sponsors, all Republicans.

Rebecca Peters, director of the London-based International Action Network on Small Arms, said that while the National Rifle Association is trying to portray the UN effort as an attempt to require Americans to register their guns, the consensus of delegates who met at the United Nations last month is quite different.

(Excerpt) Read more at nola.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; Philosophy; US: Louisiana
KEYWORDS: 109th; bang; banglist; gunrunning; un; ungungraber; vitter
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1 posted on 08/14/2005 12:12:44 AM PDT by Crackingham
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Comment #2 Removed by Moderator

To: Crackingham; Travis McGee; Joe Brower; Eaker; Squantos; mhking; rdb3
Critics of Vitter's bill, including Eric Howard of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, accuse the freshman senator of placating voters who oppose gun control and are cynical about the United Nations.

he says that as if it is a BAD thing... all it means is Vitter is appealing to the practical, intelligent, observant members of his constituency who have at least some remembrance of past facts and trends (such as "unilateral" disarmament leading to totalitarianism, such as "gun-control" has always actually meant "people control", such as Oil for Food, etc...).

Of course, since Graboids like Howard pander to emotional morons who can be swated with doggerel and pat talking-points, I suppose he WOULD consider Vitter's behavior to be beyond the pale.

3 posted on 08/14/2005 12:20:38 AM PDT by King Prout (and the Clinton Legacy continues: like Herpes, it is a gift that keeps on giving.)
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To: Crackingham
The farmers in the countryside and the people living in the so-called "blighted" areas of Zimbabwe could use a few guns right about now to keep Mugabe's thugs away.
"There hasn’t been any revolution so far because the potential rebels cannot get guns. No one is willing to arm the dissatisfied majority, and over two thirds of the population lives in poverty. . . . The government seems determined to starve its enemies to death, secure in the knowledge that the victims are unarmed, and the government forces have lots of guns."

As Glenn Reynolds points out, perhaps we need an international right to guns.

4 posted on 08/14/2005 12:22:46 AM PDT by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
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To: Crackingham

Currently on my knees, BEGGING, please U.N.


Come and take it!


5 posted on 08/14/2005 12:23:42 AM PDT by trubluolyguy (The defense of our nation should begin at the borders...Mr President?.....George?)
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To: Crackingham
Critics of Vitter's bill, including Eric Howard of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, accuse the freshman senator of placating voters who oppose gun control and are cynical about the United Nations.

Placate me or else!

6 posted on 08/14/2005 12:29:17 AM PDT by Jeff Gordon (Recall Barbara Boxer)
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To: trubluolyguy

I think the UN might get 2 blocks away from the UN before the "illegally" armed New Yorkers would have them squiting in their pants.


7 posted on 08/14/2005 12:29:19 AM PDT by jwh_Denver (The government said it? I believe it! Hehe hoho haha!)
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To: Crackingham

So let me get this straight. U.S. citizens are sending guns to thugs in Africa so they can kill "particularly children?" I'm sorry. I don't do recreational drugs so I'm not buying that.


8 posted on 08/14/2005 12:29:30 AM PDT by FlingWingFlyer (We did not lose in Vietnam. We left.)
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To: Chevy Sales
Any attempt to actually impose this kind of Resolution would equate to Suicide for the U.N.
9 posted on 08/14/2005 12:29:37 AM PDT by MJY1288 (Whenever a Liberal is Speaking on the Senate Floor, Al-Jazeera Breaks in and Covers it LIVE)
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Comment #10 Removed by Moderator

To: Crackingham
brutal militias in Africa and elsewhere that target civilians, particularly children.

Yup, push the children forward as an excuse to grab guns. What a novel idea, that's never been tried before.

Militias trying to kill children would find the job just as easy with knives or baseball bats.

The One Worlders know that they have to disarm the american public, because without that, they will never get rid of that pesky old constitution.

11 posted on 08/14/2005 12:40:09 AM PDT by konaice
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To: King Prout
"Rebecca Peters, director of the London-based International Action Network on Small Arms, said that while the National Rifle Association is trying to portray the UN effort as an attempt to require Americans to register their guns, the consensus of delegates who met at the United Nations last month is quite different."

Here's Statements by Member States (in PDF) My acrobat reader is down, if there are any goodies -do post!

12 posted on 08/14/2005 12:44:51 AM PDT by endthematrix ("an ominous vacancy"...I mean, JOHN ROBERTS now fills this space!)
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To: Crackingham
Interesting, isn't it, that the U.N. wants to annihilate our Second Amendment rights? I recall all too vividly that, not too long ago, Herr Kofi and crew were busted for assault weapons violations when it was determined that Kofi's security contingent had weapons that were illegal in the U.S.!

Naturally, the U.N. and its sycophants ignore this very salient fact.

13 posted on 08/14/2005 12:44:57 AM PDT by Prime Choice (E=mc^3. Don't drink and derive.)
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To: MJY1288
Any attempt to actually impose this kind of Resolution would equate to Suicide for the U.N.

No disrespect, but I'll believe it when I see it. So far, the U.N. has done everything it can to make its intentions plain, but even our party heads keep kowtowing to the terrorist- and tyrant-sympathizers holed up in New York.

14 posted on 08/14/2005 12:47:29 AM PDT by Prime Choice (E=mc^3. Don't drink and derive.)
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To: Crackingham

The proposed UN regulations will not even being to stop the flow of weapons to "brutal militias in Africa and elsewhere that target civilians, particularly children." The "brutal militias" will break any laws they want to break and go right around any UN regulations. All these propsed regulations will do is create more cushy jobs at the UN, which is always the hidden agenda of UN administrators.


15 posted on 08/14/2005 12:47:34 AM PDT by defenderSD (At half past midnight, the ghost of Vince Foster wanders through the West Wing.)
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To: Prime Choice

The "party heads" is not who the U.N. should fear, it's the general population they need to fear


16 posted on 08/14/2005 12:54:36 AM PDT by MJY1288 (Whenever a Liberal is Speaking on the Senate Floor, Al-Jazeera Breaks in and Covers it LIVE)
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To: Crackingham
Image hosted by Photobucket.com
17 posted on 08/14/2005 1:02:01 AM PDT by SWAMPSNIPER (LET ME DIE ON MY FEET IN MY SWAMP, ALEX KOZINSKI FOR SCOTUS)
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To: MJY1288
I really wish I could share your optimism, but the general population has consistently had a "I dare you to cross this line" mentality which is followed up by zero-zip-nada action when said line is crossed.

The Second Amendment has been abrogated to near destruction in several states in this union. No action has been taken over that, either. I find it hard to believe anything will be any different when (not if) the U.N. teams up with the Brady jackwits.

18 posted on 08/14/2005 1:05:03 AM PDT by Prime Choice (E=mc^3. Don't drink and derive.)
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To: Prime Choice

The sunset of the AWB meant nothing to you?


19 posted on 08/14/2005 1:08:37 AM PDT by MJY1288 (Whenever a Liberal is Speaking on the Senate Floor, Al-Jazeera Breaks in and Covers it LIVE)
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To: MJY1288
The sunset of the AWB meant nothing to you?

Just proves my point. Nobody got up in arms to throw it out. It had to die from neglect. GWB himself stated that he would sign its continuance if it went to his desk. Fortunately, the RINOs and Democrats in Congress didn't have enough numbers to make that happen.

And what's more, the sunset of the AWB didn't do squat to the anti-Second Amendment laws in California, New York, Illinois or a host of other states. Not one damned thing.

So yeah, it's a hollow victory.

20 posted on 08/14/2005 1:11:56 AM PDT by Prime Choice (E=mc^3. Don't drink and derive.)
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To: Crackingham
"but I'm happy to assure him that there is no danger of the United Nations coming in and confiscating guns of his constituents,"

This is always how it starts. I cannot think of a single act by the UN that would completely destroy that World body, and cause the death of so many blue helmets, than to attempt to even deny a 1 American his/her right to possess arms. For years I have warned Americans about the dangers of the UN, and their anti-American agenda, and now all can see it here on display.

The UN assigns dictators to civil rights commissions, and allows thugs to murder 10000's of civilians, and then take bribes to look the other way. Now they want to regulate Americans their Right to keep and bear arms, and notice just how fast the wacko liberal socialist left jumped on board in defense of the UN!

I cannot think of a any other single event by the UN that would lead to the death of so many blue helmets, than to come to America and make an attempt at confiscation of private weapons!

I hope that Americans are not still telling themselves: "this cannot happen here." The UN's plans won't be going away none too soon.

Where are the Bills that GETS US THE HELL OUT OF THE UN? Why are we even associating with this corrupt organization that displays its hatred of Americans, and America each and everyday!
21 posted on 08/14/2005 1:32:49 AM PDT by standing united (82nd ABN 1/508th BN Bco 1st Sqd. Alpha Fireteam Leader: "fury from the sky" 8-Duce on the Loose!!)
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To: Crackingham

Go VITTER!


22 posted on 08/14/2005 1:34:53 AM PDT by Lauretij2
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To: Prime Choice
Neglect is the only way it would die, attention would have made it worse. I don't see it as a hollow victory, I see it as a silent victory. But I guess it's about how one perceives things
23 posted on 08/14/2005 1:35:47 AM PDT by MJY1288 (Whenever a Liberal is Speaking on the Senate Floor, Al-Jazeera Breaks in and Covers it LIVE)
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To: MJY1288
Neglect is the only way it would die, attention would have made it worse.

I see. Then will attention to the U.N.'s gun grabbing only "make it worse" as well?

I guess I don't see how you can reconcile your sentiment at the top of this particular message with your earlier message that people will somehow magically rise up when every indication is they'll sit on their thumbs like they always have.

24 posted on 08/14/2005 1:57:19 AM PDT by Prime Choice (E=mc^3. Don't drink and derive.)
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To: Prime Choice
Considering the level of trust right now for the U.N. I will bet that the U.N. has very little support in the United States, not too mention that Dubya has cut them off at the knees since day one. But you carry on with your fear of the United Nations, it's not a bad thing, I simply think they are a toothless Tiger that nobody takes seriously. Saddam Hussein is a living example... 12 years and 17 Resolutions later and the U.N. still couldn't find a way to nicely say to Saddam that the bullshit was over and we will no longer sit by while you murder off your Countryman
25 posted on 08/14/2005 2:05:27 AM PDT by MJY1288 (Whenever a Liberal is Speaking on the Senate Floor, Al-Jazeera Breaks in and Covers it LIVE)
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To: endthematrix

and whose statements do you want me to inspect?


26 posted on 08/14/2005 3:40:07 AM PDT by King Prout (and the Clinton Legacy continues: like Herpes, it is a gift that keeps on giving.)
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To: King Prout

Not just for you, but for all. Don't worry about it. I just know there are some radical anti-gun proposals that refute the IANSA claim. I PO'd that I can't read any cuz my Acrobat reader is down.


27 posted on 08/14/2005 3:56:42 AM PDT by endthematrix ("an ominous vacancy"...I mean, JOHN ROBERTS now fills this space!)
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To: Crackingham
Expressing concern that the United Nations' efforts to stem international gun running could impede the rights of U.S. gun owners, Sen. David Vitter, R-La., is proposing legislation to bar financing for the world organization should it infringe on Americans' Second Amendment rights.

The UN can try...

Note to the UN: Try it and draw back a nub.

28 posted on 08/14/2005 3:59:24 AM PDT by mewzilla (Property must be secured or liberty cannot exist. John Adams)
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To: defenderSD

Not to mention payoffs and under the table deals like FFO.


29 posted on 08/14/2005 4:05:51 AM PDT by metesky (This land was your land, this land is MY land; I bought the rights from a town selectman!)
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To: Crackingham
The UN come after guns? Well, why not? After all, it worked so well for the Dimocrats!
30 posted on 08/14/2005 4:18:55 AM PDT by Caipirabob (Democrats.. Socialists..Commies..Traitors...Who can tell the difference?)
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To: Crackingham
"international efforts to stem the flow of arms to brutal militias in Africa and elsewhere that target civilians, particularly children.

It is for the children , after all

"Wendy Cukier, president of Canada's Coalition to End Gun Violence,

You can't make this stuff up

31 posted on 08/14/2005 4:33:00 AM PDT by muir_redwoods (Free Sirhan Sirhan, after all, the bastard who killed Mary Jo Kopeckne is walking around free)
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To: Crackingham
To download poster in PDF format,
right-click on image and choose "Save Link As"

32 posted on 08/14/2005 6:04:16 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Koran 9:123 "Make war on the infidels who dwell around you.")
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To: Crackingham
At its July meeting on gun running, the United Nations released a report estimating that 500,000 people have died over the past decade from injuries caused by small weapons or guns used in crimes or military attacks. Children are frequent victims, the UN report said.

Only 500,000 thousand people in ten years? Hell, machete wielding maniacs killed more than that in one year in Rwanda. It seems to me the UN needs to tackle the problem of illegal machete use first.

The name of the canadian gun Nazi cracks me up. Cukier. Kookier than a weasel full of booze. She couldn't have been tagged with a more apt name. Must be destiny.

33 posted on 08/14/2005 6:45:59 AM PDT by metalurgist (Death to the democrats! They're almost the same as communists, they just move a little slower.)
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To: Prime Choice
Just proves my point. Nobody got up in arms to throw it out.

The ballot box comes before the cartridge box. About 2 years after the AWB was passed the House passed a bill that would have repealed the Klinton gun ban but the sexual-predator-in-chief said he would veto it so it did not pass the Senate.
34 posted on 08/14/2005 6:47:40 AM PDT by HKaddict
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To: HKaddict

35 posted on 08/14/2005 7:01:30 AM PDT by vrwc0915
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To: Chevy Sales

"just try and come get em UN...pleaaaaaaaaassssssssssssssssseeeeeeeeeeeee.... "

They'll get your local police to pick them up one house at a time. The local SWAT team will be more than happy to shoot any recalcitrant gun owners. It's their duty to the "Homeland".


36 posted on 08/14/2005 7:05:29 AM PDT by dljordan
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To: MJY1288

financial suicide.

There are days where I seriously wonder how much of kerry's vote was a result of fraud. Sometimes I think it is not unreasonable to think 1/2 of all votes for democrats are fraud when stuff like this is pursued.


37 posted on 08/14/2005 7:10:02 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE!)
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To: Crackingham
Howard said the bill could torpedo international efforts to stem the flow of arms to brutal militias in Africa and elsewhere that target civilians, particularly children.

OH NO! It’s FOR THE CHILDREN!!!
38 posted on 08/14/2005 7:11:58 AM PDT by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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To: All

remember, according to the international "law" experts of the UN. Treaties superceed the US consititution.

They believe a federal government CAN negotiate terms in contrary to consitutions. Even Ruth ginsber agrees.


39 posted on 08/14/2005 7:19:38 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE!)
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To: dljordan
"They'll get your local police to pick them up one house at a time. The local SWAT team will be more than happy to shoot any recalcitrant gun owners. It's their duty to the "Homeland"."

That's exactly how it would happen. No blue helmets, no foreign troops ( at least initially ). It will be 'internal security forces'. It will probably begin in cities already 'favorable' to gun control, and advertised in the media as a crackdown on criminals.

Then, if resistance rises, you will see the bringing in of the military or national guard, but only to the point it doesn't jeapordize interests overseas. At that point, one 'might' see foreign troops on American soil, with the stated reason being 'such and such are much better trained for police actions'.

One sees some puzzle pieces floating around out there, such as relaxing Posse Comitatus, the use of 'non-lethal' crowd control devices, militarization of police forces.
Combine high debt, low savings rate, a growing realization of the true meaning of 'outsourcing', an almost intentional failure to secure the borders, and I'm sure there are certain elements in the US government that are peeing their pants ( justified or not ) considering what would happen if all these things come together in a 'Perfect Storm'.
What I'm wondering is if the next terror act on American soil will not result in actions against those responsible, but as the vehicle to all but enforce some sort of martial law.

Anyone wants to accuse me of wearing a tin foil hat, be my guest. But remember, during the 8 years of the Clinton occupation of the White House, it was certain segments of American citizens that were considered 'The Enemy', not true terrorists like Atta.

40 posted on 08/14/2005 7:23:44 AM PDT by Tench_Coxe
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To: HKaddict
Cool screen name, here is some candy to hold you over a bit. Image hosted by Photobucket.com
41 posted on 08/14/2005 7:32:09 AM PDT by ▀udda▀udd (7 days - 7 ways)
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To: Crackingham

good bill


42 posted on 08/14/2005 7:33:05 AM PDT by atlanta67
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To: Tench_Coxe

Exactly! And they will find:
A Anti Gov. /Racist Material
B Evil Drugs
C Sicko Porn

And a good number of freepers will say well that guy got what he deserved.


43 posted on 08/14/2005 7:55:25 AM PDT by vrwc0915
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To: King Prout
Dear UN,

.....Criminals, Dictators and Terrorists do not follow laws, yours , ours or theirs. Passing such a law will just make more criminals....as in me.

Hope yer legs grow togeather, KMA Squantos !

44 posted on 08/14/2005 8:55:50 AM PDT by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet. ę)
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To: longtermmemmory

I'm with you on the underestimates of Democrat vote fraud. In the 2000 election weren't there more Demo votes in Philadelphia and Pittsburgh than registered Demo voters?


45 posted on 08/14/2005 9:09:22 AM PDT by nygoose
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To: Crackingham
placating voters who oppose gun control and are cynical about the United Nations.

Ummmmm that would be nearly two thirds of the country? Here's hoping!

46 posted on 08/14/2005 9:28:05 AM PDT by ExSoldier (Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.)
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To: Prime Choice

I just ordered two 15 round magazines for my Glock 31 (357 SIG). I'm a happy camper! Voting Republican works.


47 posted on 08/14/2005 11:47:25 AM PDT by claudiustg (Go Sharon! Go Bush!)
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To: Crackingham

Kofe and the other crooks in the UN have killed more children in the Oil for Food rip-off than have died in the US from guns. And including 16-18 yr. old gangbangers shouldn't count in the stats either.


48 posted on 08/14/2005 11:51:26 AM PDT by kittymyrib
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To: Tench_Coxe

" Anyone wants to accuse me of wearing a tin foil hat, be my guest"

They'll be here shortly. I think your scenario is pretty good.


49 posted on 08/14/2005 12:11:34 PM PDT by dljordan
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To: HKaddict
The ballot box comes before the cartridge box.

Show me where we get to vote the U.N. out.

No matter which party we vote for, the U.N. just gets more power.

50 posted on 08/14/2005 12:41:04 PM PDT by Prime Choice (E=mc^3. Don't drink and derive.)
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