Posted on 08/16/2005 8:38:13 AM PDT by BayouCoyote
In every society where family affairs are regulated according to instructions derived from the Shariah or Islamic law, women are disadvantaged. The injustices these women are exposed to in the name of Islam vary from extreme cruelty (forced marriages; imprisonment or death after rape) to grossly unfair treatment in matters of marriage, divorce and inheritance.
(Excerpt) Read more at opinionjournal.com ...
Maybe we should send them Cindy Sheehan, the Planned Parenthood women, the Jersey Girls, Code Pink, and the other screaming feminist militants in exchange for their women. The women we're sending over there learn what it's like to live in the kind of society they're supporting, and we free the women from Muslim countries even faster than we are doing anyway.
If Iraq becomes an Islamic country following the Shariah law, then all our efforts to bring democracy to them has been in vain. The sacrifices of our military have been for naught.
bttt
The media has been playing up this story, sometimes in an effort to say that women were better of under Saddam's Iraq.
Unfortunately it ignores the horrors of Saddam's "rape rooms" and accounts of pregnant women being disembowled at Abu Ghraib in front of their imprisoned husbands.
This is a cakewalk compared to those attrocities.
You may be an old seadog but you are new around here, perhaps you missed the accounts of the human rights violations under Saddam.
See post 6.
So it's ok to ignore the plight of Iraqi women when we're supposed to be there guaranteeing freedom for everyone?
We deposed a rogue dictator (100% of the vote support, my eye) who was sponsoring international terrorism as state policy and violating the UN resolutions banning his possession of certain weaponry (for over a decade).
Democracy is a long road for the Iraqi citizens to go down. Our nation had tiered rights for individuals at its founding. Things could be better but they have been a lot worse.
All of this talk of "women's rights" under Islamic law. Do you realize that there are 3 classes of individual, each with different rights, and punishment under Islamic law? Muslims (the top), Jews/Christians (still people of the book), and everybody else?
Religious freedom must come first. People must be permitted to stand in a court room and receive the same protection and the same penalty regardless of their religious beliefs. They must also be able to freely practice their faith and muslims must be permitted to convert away from Islam.
Without these reforms and protections, "women's rights" will always be at jeopardy.
So you would settle for going from an extremely terrible regime to just a teriible regime? Sorry, I won't settle for that.
I'm very familiar with the Koran, which is why if Iraq implements some law that is sympathetic to Sharia, we'll be going in the opposite direction from what we should be. The US should be able to exert enough pressure to guarantee basic rights over there, otherwise one of our main arguments for deposing Saddam will no longer be viable.
Good for you! If they don't come up with a government more to your liking, you'll...you'll...???
Deposing Saddam was not about human rights. There are plenty of dictators in power (Castro for example).
The freedom Iraqis now experience are an added win.
The left denies there was oppression under Saddam.
State sponsorship of terrorism cannot be tolerated in this age.
Saddam posed a risk with his continued proven efforts to obtain WMD (whether he was successful or not).
We do not permit convicted felons out on parole to continue to try to buy guns or hire hitmen. That will throw them back in prison.
I'd like to see the corrupt leadership in Europe tossed out. It's not my call any more than the rest of the world should have had a say in the 2004 elections for the American President.
You mean the freedom that Iraqi men will enjoy, but not the women.
Will Iraqi men still have their hands cut off in prison?
Such horrors.
Deny that torture was state policy under Saddam all you want.
They're training women soldiers and police officers right now. Just try forcing an armed women into a burqua, I dare you.
Stop putting words into my mouth. I never denied torture was state policy under Saddam, unlike you who close your ears and refuse to hear an article that goes against your rosy utopian vision of Iraq. In your world, two wrongs seem to make a right. It's ok to you because Saddam's injustice was worse. Hey whatever helps you sleep at night.
Women will be able to possess firearms at home?
Who's putting words in who's mouth?
You just shoved a mouthful in mine.
Ever picket for women's rights in America?
Or just like to Bash Bush?
Where did I bash Bush? You're such a sad troll and you're just embarrassing yourself on this thread.
You did chime after the ol seadog who said...
"all our efforts to bring democracy to them has been in vain. The sacrifices of our military have been for naught."
Better off with Saddam still there and 1800 soldiers still sitting around at home bases?
Trollin trollin trollin.
I refuse to participate.
Really I do.
You did chime after the ol seadog who said... "all our efforts to bring democracy to them has been in vain. The sacrifices of our military have been for naught."
And your point? What does seadog's response have to do with my response? (Hint: nothing)
Better off with Saddam still there and 1800 soldiers still sitting around at home bases?
How many times do I have to repeat myself until you put this strawman to rest? I've already said life is better now than it was under Saddam, but the country will be going in the wrong direction if women are denied the right to vote. Funny that you're not that concerned about their rights. As long as it's better than it was, it's A-ok for you!
So our founding fathers were wrong to toss off the crown of England? Slaves were still slaves. Women couldn't vote.
It's a long road. It is NOT our call.
I don't want them telling us how to run our country.
You want Rome to be built overnight.
YOU want the Utopia.
Instant gratification. 30-minute sitcom solution to life's problems.
Things have been very s**tty there for thousands of years. The same can be said of other regions in the Middle East.
There are some on FR who have said that democracy isn't for everyone.
I am not one of those. The seed of democracy is taking root in the Middle East. I don't want to just see Iraq change. I don't see things as being over by a longshot.
You set your expectations for immediate results too high.
You complain if women cannot have guns in Iraq. Much of the world thinks that NO American should have guns. Outsiders opinions don't account for much.
We can put pressure for reforms but with violating nations on the UN's Human Rights panel, don't expect any action from that entity.
Where is NOW? Where is Amnesty International? Protesting the war. There are people who can focus of women's rights.
I am not a sexist. I am for EVERYONES rights, not just the womens. When people of non-Islamic faiths are treated differently under the law and crimes against non-muslims are treated differently, there are BIG problems with Islamic law.
Too many focus on the treatment of women at the exclusion of other discrimination.
Not by a long shot. If the Iraqi congress ratifies the constitution without an equal rights clause, then perhaps Casey Sheehan and all the others may have sacrificed themselves in vain. If this is allowed to go forward without protest from the US, than I will consider GW and his administration cowards and liars.
GW is turning out to be a big dissapointment. What with CAFTA, Un-controlled illegal immigration, pandering to the left, un-willingness to exercise the political clout awarded him by those that voted for him, etc, etc...
I agree with you.
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