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Group Wants to Bring African Animals to North America
http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/ ^ | 8 18 05 | JOSEPH B. VERRENGIA,

Posted on 08/18/2005 12:48:35 PM PDT by freepatriot32

DENVER (Aug. 17) - If a group of prominent ecologists have their way, lions and elephants could someday be roaming the Great Plains of North America

The idea of transplanting African wildlife to this continent is being greeted with gasps and groans from other scientists and conservationists who recall previous efforts to relocate foreign species halfway around the world, often with disastrous results.

But the proposal's supporters say it could help save some species from extinction in Africa, where protection is spotty and habitats are vanishing. They say the relocated animals could also restore the biodiversity in North America to a condition closer to what it was before humans overran the landscape more than 10,000 years ago.

Most modern African species never lived on the American prairie, the scientists acknowledge. But some of their biological cousins like mastodons, camels and saber-toothed cats, roamed for more than 1 million years alongside antelope and herds of bison until Ice Age glaciers retreated and humans started arriving.

The rapid extinction of dozens of large mammal species in North America - perhaps due to a combination of climate change and overhunting - triggered a landslide of changes to the environmental landscape. Relocating large animals to vast ecological parks and private reserves would begin to repair the damage, proponents say, while offering new ecotourism opportunities to a withering region.

The scientists' plan appears in Thursday's issue of the journal Nature. It is attracting interest from some influential circles, including media mogul Ted Turner, America's largest private landowner. He owns huge ranches in several states to support his commercial bison operation and personal conservation initiatives.

But the plan is also generating criticism on both sides of the conservation debate.

"It is not restoration to introduce animals that were never here," said University of Washington anthropologist Donald K. Grayson. "Why introduce Old World camels and lions when there are North American species that could benefit from the same kind of effort?"

Others wonder whether people would support African lions making a home on the range, given the opposition to the reintroduction of native wolves in the rural West.

"Just when you think the world has gotten as weird as it can get, something like this comes along," said Steve Pilcher, executive vice president of the Montana Stockgrowers Association.

"I wonder how many calves or lambs it would take to feed a family of lions for a month?" Pilcher mused. "We sort of know what it takes for wolves, but something tells me we would be in a whole new ball game."

Some wildlife conservationists said the idea would further damage the prospects of both threatened species and Africa's hopes for sustainable economic development.

"Such relocations would affect future tourism opportunities for Africa," said Elizabeth Wamba, the East Africa spokeswoman for the International Fund for Animal Welfare in Nairobi, Kenya. "The welfare of the animals would have been reduced by transporting and exposing them to different eco-climatic conditions."

Critics also point to calamitous relocations of foreign species in Australia. Rabbits brought from Europe swarmed across parts of the Outback, and noxious cane toads brought from South America to control bugs in sugar cane fields killed native wildlife.

The authors of the new plan say they are not discouraged.

"We are not saying this is going to be easy," said Cornell University ecologist Josh Donlan, the lead author of the proposal. "There are huge and substantial risks and obstacles."

The plan grew from a retreat at Turner's New Mexico ranch - a 155,000-acre property in the foothills of the Gila Mountains that contains a mix of ecosystems ranging from desert grasslands to pine forests.

Ecologists are using the ranch to experiment with reintroducing the Bolson tortoise to the region. These 100-pound burrowers were once found across the Southwest, but now survive only in a corner of northern Mexico's Chihuahuan Desert.

The scientists' discussion expanded to consider long-extinct Pleistocene species that have modern counterparts elsewhere in the world.

For example, a larger American cheetah once stalked pronghorn on these lands, with both species evolving special features that enabled them to accelerate to 60 mph. Today, pronghorns rarely are chased, except by the occasional pickup truck.

In Africa, modern cheetahs are being exterminated as vermin, with fewer than 2,000 remaining in some countries. Relocation could help both species retain important traits, the plan's proponents say.

Other living species that are counterparts to Pleistocene-era animals in North America include wild horses and asses, Bactrian camels, elephants and lions.

Donlan concedes that lions would be a tough sell to Americans.

"Lions eat people," he said. "There has to be a pretty serious attitude shift on how you view predators."


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Editorial; Extended News; News/Current Events; US: Colorado
KEYWORDS: african; america; animalrightslist; animals; bring; colorado; denver; group; north; to; wants; wildlife
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Media mogul Ted Turner is interested in the idea, but many scientists say it's misguided.
1 posted on 08/18/2005 12:48:51 PM PDT by freepatriot32
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To: abbi_normal_2; adam_az; Alamo-Girl; Alas; alfons; alphadog; AMDG&BVMH; amom; AndreaZingg; ...
Rights, farms, environment ping.
Let me know if you wish to be added or removed from this list.
I don't get offended if you want to be removed.

List of Ping lists

2 posted on 08/18/2005 12:50:01 PM PDT by freepatriot32 (Deep within every dilemma is a solution that involves explosives)
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To: Howlin; Ed_NYC; MonroeDNA; widgysoft; Springman; Timesink; dubyaismypresident; Grani; coug97; ...
I can see it now...you're driving down the road when your SUV is slammed in the side by a rampaging herd of rhinos...

Just damn.

If you want on the list, FReepmail me. This IS a high-volume PING list...

3 posted on 08/18/2005 12:52:06 PM PDT by mhking (The world needs a wake up call gentlemen...we're gonna phone it in.)
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To: freepatriot32

Ted Turner should take a long walk off a very short pier.

Say, why don't we ship TURNER to Africa?


4 posted on 08/18/2005 12:52:48 PM PDT by RexBeach (Pardon me, but is that a malaise sandwich in your pocket or are you just glad to be in a funk?)
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To: freepatriot32

Ted may wanna be a cowboy when he grows up, but clothes don't make the man. And those large cattle-eatin' animals ain't gonna last long in Texas. Too many hunters as well as ranchers who don't want/need more livestock predators.


5 posted on 08/18/2005 12:53:57 PM PDT by texas_mrs
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To: freepatriot32

Idiots. We already have african animals on private plains/pastures because of zoo animals reproducing! Often providing trophy hunting opportunities, and big weekend profits for the farm owners!

Maybe we should call this Animal Rug Ping?!


6 posted on 08/18/2005 12:54:21 PM PDT by Mrs. Shawnlaw (Rock beats scissors. Don't run with rocks. NRA)
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To: freepatriot32

Idiotic Idea!


7 posted on 08/18/2005 12:54:22 PM PDT by areafiftyone (Politicians Are Like Diapers, Both Need To Be Changed Often And For The Same Reason!)
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To: freepatriot32
Group Wants to Bring African Animals to North America

Isn't this like, so over?


8 posted on 08/18/2005 12:54:30 PM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (Lonesome's First Law: Whenever anyone says it's not about the money, it's about the money.)
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To: freepatriot32

Read the last idiot quote in the article and you will see all that is wrong with leftists and modern day America. Our attitudes will have to be reworked so that being eaten by lions isn't such a "hard sell". The essence of Liberalism captured in just two lines!


9 posted on 08/18/2005 12:54:47 PM PDT by Williams
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To: freepatriot32

We accept every kind of human animal around the world why not Elephants and Lions? S/


10 posted on 08/18/2005 12:54:58 PM PDT by sgtbono2002
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To: freepatriot32

"It is attracting interest from some influential circles, including media mogul Ted Turner, America's largest private landowner."

That's all I needed to hear...

It's a very bad idea.


11 posted on 08/18/2005 12:56:15 PM PDT by ryan71 (Speak softly and carry a BIG STICK)
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To: freepatriot32
"Lions eat people," he said. "There has to be a pretty serious attitude shift on how you view predators."

Not an attitude shift, but a practical one. View predators through a scope mounted on a high-powered rifle.

12 posted on 08/18/2005 12:56:46 PM PDT by Disambiguator (Making accusations of racism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.)
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To: freepatriot32
"a group of prominent ecologists...."

Tells you all you need to know about ecologists, too. I guess their expertise lies in coming up with totally bizarre ideas. Any other credentials they have are pure BS.

13 posted on 08/18/2005 12:57:33 PM PDT by Williams
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To: freepatriot32

Well, after the wonderful job they have done importing kudzu to the US, maybe they can find a critter in Africa that will come eat it all.


14 posted on 08/18/2005 12:58:20 PM PDT by Mister_Diddy_Wa_Diddy
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To: freepatriot32
This has been going on for a long time, including those who have debated "bringing back" the wooly mammoth.
15 posted on 08/18/2005 12:58:50 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (The environment is too complex and too important to manage by central planning.)
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To: freepatriot32

I read about this yesterday. A rancher friend of mine once told me it is ALWAYS a bad idea to introduce non-native species into a new environment. What will these do gooders do when a newly introduced, endangered cheetah eats one of the few remaining whooping cranes.


16 posted on 08/18/2005 12:58:56 PM PDT by TX Bluebonnet
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To: freepatriot32
Pleistocene-era animals in North America include wild horses and asses, Bactrian camels, elephants and lions.

Uh...I'm afraid they aren't extinct...they are just cleverly hidden in Blue States.

17 posted on 08/18/2005 12:59:28 PM PDT by Lekker 1 ("Who the hell wants to hear actors talk?"- Harry M. Warner, Warner Bros., 1927)
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To: freepatriot32

Here in Montana, ranchers and stockgrowers target practice on wolves; lions would provide slighlty larger targets.


18 posted on 08/18/2005 12:59:49 PM PDT by Rennes Templar ("The future ain't what it used to be".........Yogi Berra)
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To: freepatriot32

"Lions and tigers and bears, oh my."

19 posted on 08/18/2005 1:01:04 PM PDT by Enterprise ("Islam is not a religion, but rather a means of world conquest" - ALAN BURKHART.COM)
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To: freepatriot32
In Africa, modern cheetahs are being exterminated as vermin, with fewer than 2,000 remaining in some countries. Relocation could help both species retain important traits, the plan's proponents say.

How idiotic! Americans would shoot them as soon as they became a nuisance, and rightfully so.
20 posted on 08/18/2005 1:02:10 PM PDT by Jaysun (Democrats: We must become more effective at fooling people.)
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To: freepatriot32

Why do rich people go crazy??????


21 posted on 08/18/2005 1:04:38 PM PDT by Dallas59 (“You love life, while we love death.” - Al-Qaeda / Democratic Party)
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To: freepatriot32


Geez you'd think they'd of learned something from the last time we imported from Africa.


22 posted on 08/18/2005 1:06:58 PM PDT by SouthernFreebird
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To: Mister_Diddy_Wa_Diddy

Yeah, even the poor cows couldn't keep up with the Kudzu.

And for the other critters, well,
I'm the LAST person you want an opinion from about that.

(as my inner child screams "I want one of each!")


23 posted on 08/18/2005 1:07:09 PM PDT by najida (I hate Maytag. I hate Equifax. I hate Hewlett-Packard. I'm just one big ole ball of hate >:>)
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To: freepatriot32

Could we put lions along the borders?


24 posted on 08/18/2005 1:08:18 PM PDT by Proud2BeRight
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To: Williams

I agree 100 percent with the importation of lions, leopards, etc. from Africa. We first need to build two fences that run the length of the border with Mexico. The southernmost fence will be 24 feet high, the northernmost fence will be 24 feet high topped with razor wire. We put all the lions and leopards inside the two fences and we immediately solve our illegal immigration problem. For those who come by sea we can lure white sharks, tiger sharks and giant squid to our coastal waters. I told my wife that ecologists, sociologists, biologists and proctologists drive me crazy.


25 posted on 08/18/2005 1:08:48 PM PDT by daddypatriot
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To: Williams

I agree 100 percent with the importation of lions, leopards, etc. from Africa. We first need to build two fences that run the length of the border with Mexico. The southernmost fence will be 24 feet high, the northernmost fence will be 24 feet high topped with razor wire. We put all the lions and leopards inside the two fences and we immediately solve our illegal immigration problem. For those who come by sea we can lure white sharks, tiger sharks and giant squid to our coastal waters. I told my wife that ecologists, sociologists, biologists and proctologists drive me crazy.


26 posted on 08/18/2005 1:09:16 PM PDT by daddypatriot
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To: RexBeach

Shipping Turner to Africa is an excellent idea. Why in the world would these animal people want dangerous man eating animals roaming our western land. That's just plain stupid and an unnecessary death wish for our population of people and native animals. What kind of chance would our animals on the range have against a lion or tiger? At least a human could carry a gun but the animals cannot.


27 posted on 08/18/2005 1:10:53 PM PDT by conservative blonde (Conservative Blonde)
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To: Dallas59

Fools and their money NEED to be parted, because nothing is more dangerous than a fool with money.


28 posted on 08/18/2005 1:11:58 PM PDT by Lekker 1 ("Who the hell wants to hear actors talk?"- Harry M. Warner, Warner Bros., 1927)
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To: daddypatriot
proctologists drive me crazy

Dude, I should refer to you mine. It's always a pleasure!

29 posted on 08/18/2005 1:13:40 PM PDT by Lekker 1 ("Who the hell wants to hear actors talk?"- Harry M. Warner, Warner Bros., 1927)
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To: Proud2BeRight
Could we put lions along the borders?

OK, that's just pure genius! Let's have a wildlife preserve three miles wide and as long as the Mexican/US border.

30 posted on 08/18/2005 1:17:08 PM PDT by T Minus Four (Some assembly required.)
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To: Mrs. Shawnlaw
Yep, I'd love more exotic game hunting opportunities. A friend of mine took this buffalo at a game preserve in Florida recently. Bow kill, #1 in the world (record wise):


31 posted on 08/18/2005 1:17:21 PM PDT by Quilla
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To: freepatriot32
There's a nifty idea. In the stead of worrying about the increasing numbers of cyotes we can worry about wild packs of African hyenas.

These nitwits should stick to their cocaine, perc's and, glenlivet.
32 posted on 08/18/2005 1:18:59 PM PDT by mmercier (Bungee jumping into the abyss)
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To: freepatriot32

BTTT!!!!!!!


33 posted on 08/18/2005 1:20:25 PM PDT by E.G.C.
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To: freepatriot32

And in a hundred years of so, some self-appointed busybody animal rights kook is going to look for someone to sue for reparations.

No thanks.


34 posted on 08/18/2005 1:21:53 PM PDT by surely_you_jest
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To: surely_you_jest

How about from Brownsville to San Diego, a predator national park.


35 posted on 08/18/2005 1:23:51 PM PDT by John Will
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To: SouthernFreebird

Can you clarify what you are referring to? I'm afraid that your statement can lead to a very wrong assertion.....


36 posted on 08/18/2005 1:23:55 PM PDT by CSM ( If the government has taken your money, it has fulfilled its Social Security promises. (dufekin))
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To: freepatriot32; Overtaxed; osagebowman; SuziQ

You know, at one time they thought it was a good idea to import kudzu...


37 posted on 08/18/2005 1:25:17 PM PDT by Corin Stormhands (Join the Hobbit Hole Troop Support - http://freeper.the-hobbit-hole.net/)
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To: freepatriot32

"But the proposal's supporters say it could help save some species from extinction in Africa, where protection is spotty and habitats are vanishing. They say the relocated animals could also restore the biodiversity in North America to a condition closer to what it was before humans overran the landscape more than 10,000 years ago."



At least the leftists are admitting their intention of forcing civilization back to the stone age....


38 posted on 08/18/2005 1:25:32 PM PDT by CSM ( If the government has taken your money, it has fulfilled its Social Security promises. (dufekin))
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To: CSM

I'm talking about PETA or someone like that suing Lord knows who for reparations on behalf of the lions, elephants, or whatever, for being wrongfully transplanted here.

Why? What did you think I meant?


39 posted on 08/18/2005 1:26:15 PM PDT by surely_you_jest
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To: surely_you_jest

I was responding to Post #22 by another poster. Sorry about the confusions.

After reading further I am assuming that the poster was referring to Kudzo. What is Kudzo? Do you know...


40 posted on 08/18/2005 1:29:10 PM PDT by CSM ( If the government has taken your money, it has fulfilled its Social Security promises. (dufekin))
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To: freepatriot32

Well, okay, but only if we feed them environmentalists.


41 posted on 08/18/2005 1:30:37 PM PDT by Interesting Times (ABCNNBCBS -- yesterday's news.)
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To: CSM

Kudzu is a vine. It was planted throughout various areas in the south in an attempt to control erosion.

Having no natural enemies here, it rapidly spread to the poin that there are areas in the south which become absolutely covered in the stuff every summer. If you drive in the south and see some kind of green viney stuff covering everything in sight, including telephone poles, wires, trees, etc, that is kudzu.


42 posted on 08/18/2005 1:33:40 PM PDT by surely_you_jest
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To: surely_you_jest

Wow. Thanks for the information. Don't stand in one place to long!


43 posted on 08/18/2005 1:37:43 PM PDT by CSM ( If the government has taken your money, it has fulfilled its Social Security promises. (dufekin))
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To: freepatriot32
They think there's more room on the Great Plains of America than there is in Africa?
Maroons!
44 posted on 08/18/2005 2:11:44 PM PDT by SuziQ
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To: Corin Stormhands
You know, at one time they thought it was a good idea to import kudzu...

I've seen it in it's natural environment. Does the same thing in the MS Delta as it does in Japan! Apparently you can't kill the stuff THERE either!

45 posted on 08/18/2005 2:14:38 PM PDT by SuziQ
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To: Mrs. Shawnlaw
In or around White Sands National Monument in New Mexico there are about 400,000 African Orynx or African Antelope.

Just an observation.........:)

46 posted on 08/18/2005 2:19:12 PM PDT by Recon by Fire
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To: Lekker 1

they're not that cleverly hidden. I can usually spot several on my way to work or around my office within minutes, if not seconds. All they have to do is talk.


47 posted on 08/18/2005 2:19:29 PM PDT by timtoews5292004
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To: freepatriot32
They say the relocated animals could also restore the biodiversity in North America to a condition closer to what it was before humans overran the landscape more than 10,000 years ago.
But, but, but I thought the Indians (or for those of you in Berkley, Native Americans) were so "in-tune" with nature </sarcasm_extreme_lefty>

"Just when you think the world has gotten as weird as it can get, something like this comes along," said Steve Pilcher, executive vice president of the Montana Stockgrowers Association.

"I wonder how many calves or lambs it would take to feed a family of lions for a month?" Pilcher mused. "We sort of know what it takes for wolves, but something tells me we would be in a whole new ball game."

And thus we come to the real goal of Red Turner and company; the elimination of the livelihoods of the likes of the Montana Stockgrowers Association.
48 posted on 08/18/2005 2:20:01 PM PDT by steveegg (Real torture is taking a ride with Sen Ted "Swimmer" Kennedy in a 1968 Oldsmobile off a short bridge)
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To: SuziQ

Its all over the place in the hills of kentucky, too. such a waste of natural beauty if you ask me. Nothing like seeing 80+ foot tall pine trees cover 2/3 of the way up with what looks like a bunch of big clover leafs.


49 posted on 08/18/2005 2:21:06 PM PDT by timtoews5292004
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To: mhking
I can see it now...you're driving down the road when your SUV is slammed in the side by a rampaging herd of rhinos...

Which is another reason why these particular envirowhackos want to bring them over here.

50 posted on 08/18/2005 2:21:50 PM PDT by steveegg (Real torture is taking a ride with Sen Ted "Swimmer" Kennedy in a 1968 Oldsmobile off a short bridge)
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